Returned Emigrant Seeks Advice Adjusting Back to Eire After 20 Yrs in the States

10Jumpers

Good Evening All,
I would really appreciate advice and thoughts from other Irish people who have returned after a long time away.

So I spent 20 years in Southern California where I had a decent life with good friends, a good quality of life and not a huge amount to complain about. I integrated well and my life didnt revolve around the local Irish bar (not that there is anything wrong with being part of that scene). As time progressed I started to think more and more about moving "home" to be closer to aging family etc so last year after much planning and organizing I made the move.

I am here a year now ... the first six or seven months were like a dream. Getting to spend a lot of time with people I hadnt got to spend more than a few days with in years. Having that feeling I am back amongst my people and generally feeling on a high. I now think of this period like an extended holiday before my new realities set in.

After about seven months the cracks started to appear. I had the horrific self realization having spent almost my entire adult life in America I was more American than Irish. The many years I spent in the states I definitely never identified as American and would happily list a laundry list of flaws and shortcomings of American society (and still can) but I started to feel homesick for California.

I started to miss my friends from the states desperately. I realized that with my friends from here (while great) we had exhausted everything we had in common in the first few months I was here and now I really didnt have a lot to say to them so I started to feel isolated.

I had never been one who was caught up in the weather but I realized it was easy not to notice the weather when it was the endless summer of LA. The constant rain (which never bothered me before) started to chip away at me mentally.

I had always held the view that Americans were rude and abrasive (and many are) and thank god I was raised with decent manners in Ireland. Ironically, whether out randomly somewhere like Dundrum SC, driving or walking around town I find people here surprisingly rude and much worse than the level of manners I got used to in SoCal. I know in itself manners of strangers are a minor thing but it adds to my feeling of being an alien here.

I could list others things that make me unsettled and obviously big bad on me for not doing my research ahead of time and coming back too hastily. I also realize most people coming back probably have a wonderful experience and this is just my perspective based on my journey and it's not meant to offend anyone.

I am at the point where I have sank and sank with this "homesickness" over the last few months and I am quite depressed. I wonder if others have gone through similar and have got through it or did they go back. Thanks for your thoughts.

clairefontaine

10Jumpers wrote: »

Good Evening All,
I would really appreciate advice and thoughts from other Irish people who have returned after a long time away.

So I spent 20 years in Southern California where I had a decent life with good friends, a good quality of life and not a huge amount to complain about. I integrated well and my life didnt revolve around the local Irish bar (not that there is anything wrong with being part of that scene). As time progressed I started to think more and more about moving "home" to be closer to aging family etc so last year after much planning and organizing I made the move.

I am here a year now ... the first six or seven months were like a dream. Getting to spend a lot of time with people I hadnt got to spend more than a few days with in years. Having that feeling I am back amongst my people and generally feeling on a high. I now think of this period like an extended holiday before my new realities set in.

After about seven months the cracks started to appear. I had the horrific self realization having spent almost my entire adult life in America I was more American than Irish. The many years I spent in the states I definitely never identified as American and would happily list a laundry list of flaws and shortcomings of American society (and still can) but I started to feel homesick for California.

I started to miss my friends from the states desperately. I realized that with my friends from here (while great) we had exhausted everything we had in common in the first few months I was here and now I really didnt have a lot to say to them so I started to feel isolated.

I had never been one who was caught up in the weather but I realized it was easy not to notice the weather when it was the endless summer of LA. The constant rain (which never bothered me before) started to chip away at me mentally.

I had always held the view that Americans were rude and abrasive (and many are) and thank god I was raised with decent manners in Ireland. Ironically, whether out randomly somewhere like Dundrum SC, driving or walking around town I find people here surprisingly rude and much worse than the level of manners I got used to in SoCal. I know in itself manners of strangers are a minor thing but it adds to my feeling of being an alien here.

I could list others things that make me unsettled and obviously big bad on me for not doing my research ahead of time and coming back too hastily. I also realize most people coming back probably have a wonderful experience and this is just my perspective based on my journey and it's not meant to offend anyone.

I am at the point where I have sank and sank with this "homesickness" over the last few months and I am quite depressed. I wonder if others have gone through similar and have got through it or did they go back. Thanks for your thoughts.

I know a lot of returned emmigrants who deeply regretted it. Any chance you can turn around?

Twenty years away is going to change you for sure.

My dad was often nostalgic for the home turf. About 6 months before he got ill he went back to Ireland to consider living out the rest of his days there, but he said he found everyone had gotten very rude, a quite astonishing remark from someone so used to New Yorkers.

But he would also say to Irish who were nostalgic for home, "Remember why you left."

I think sometimes we can fall in love with the past, and in new lands you will always be a little bit alien, so California probably made you feel this way at first, and maybe always will, but maybe now you are more similar than different.

Sometimes I miss Ireland, but I know after about a week of Olympic efforts to dry my towels I will be missing the smell of Downy softness coming out the drier.

Personally I think you should go back to California if you are that homesick.

lillycool

Hi OP,

I feel for you, what a genuine post. I can't give you much advice other than you sound like you are at a crossroads and need to think clearly about whether or not you want to stay here. I am Irish and have lived and worked in US and Ireland and one thing that I picked up from your posts which I wholeheartedly agree with very much as an Irish person - ad customer service in Ireland - this is a particular bug bear of mine.

I can just imagine your thoughts going to Dundrum etc. Retailers in Ireland have been so slow to cop on to the added value that good staff can bring but I think that some (few) are now slowly coming around to realisation that the customer interaction of front line staff actually does matter in terms of bringing in $, and can contribute to a positive experience for the customer.

All it takes is a genuine smile, genuine help and thank you for your custom, don't recruit staff minimum wage who are useless at customer service - you have to pay to get good people to increase revenue. Some retails get it right but some fail miserably.
Anyway best of luck!

NowThatsCool

My family and I were only gone for 7 years so I cant speak to your 20 years experience.
Not sure if I can help you, but I'll try.
We were at a point in our kids education that we either made a commitment to stay for 10 years or return.
Making the decision to return was about the hardest one to make.
We are back 4 years now.
At the end of year one I would have happily gone back to the US. Now nothing would have me go back.
Sure the summers were warm, but the mosquitos devoured me and I totally hated the mucky feel of sun tan lotion.
In the winter (we were in the midwest) the winter stareted at thanksgiving and ran to the following May.
The friends point you make is important. As a matter of fact your US friends are "current" and you have a more active friendship. You will need to rebuild that with your Irish pals.
You say you are more American than Irish. I'm not sure if either category are real or exclusive. I'd say my opinions and attitudes were shaped by everywhere I lived including Ireland and America.
I said that making the decision to return to Ireland was the hardest part and it was. Once we made the decison to return life got way more relaxed. After year 1 when we though of returning to the US the anxiety rose again - 'till we made a difinitive decision to stay in Ireland. For us the choice betwen Ireland and the US was much of a muchness. Either would have worked out fine. The killer was making the decision - and commitment.

sligoface

I feel for you OP, moved back here after 24 years, I miss it and i lived in Philadelphia which is much rougher than SoCal, I am now stuck in a dead area for work, unemployed for the second time in the two years since graduating college in 2011, and have no money to move anywhere else.

I like a lot of things about Ireland, I moved back because I went broke trying to afford college in the states, even though I worked full time while in college (crazy schedule, still dunno how i managed that.) I was grateful that I could afford college here without having to do that.

Lots of things I don't miss about the States, I don't miss the over the top bureacracy and powertripping police force, the materialism, the violence, esp. gun violence which is out of control, seing homeless people constantly while billions is spent on the military, the cost of healthcare and possibility of not having access (I know they have Obamacare now), having companies check your credit history for everything under the sun, having to use bill pay phones, having to completely furnish almost every place you rent yourself, and a car being a necessity for most places you live.

But on the other hand, it would be nice to have a proper job market, not have to heat the house nearly year round, not have the town overrun with drunken zombies most nights, not have things not done half-assed so much of the time, and be nice to have taxes pay for something tangible like getting the rubbish taken away, etc.

If you can't take the good with the bad, you will never enjoy living in Ireland. For example, a pet peeve of mine is having to explain my background to the driver every time I get in a taxi to go somewhere, explain why I would live here as opposed to America, etc. Would you not just drive me without prying into my life, I used to think. Then a few weeks ago, I left a house party which had turned into a bad scene, was stuck way out of town at 3 am on a pitch black road, freezing, a bit drunk as well of course, with no money, phone dead. So i started walking. Within ten minutes a car came up, I stuck my thumb out, he stopped and when I got close to the car I saw it was actually a taxi. I went to the window and started telling the driver that I had no money on me but I would sort him out later.

Before I could finish the sentence, the reply came 'Get in ya feckin' eejit!' I got in and then realized it was a driver from town I had used before to go back and forth to work, and he remembered me. Dropped me nearly to my door and said not to worry about the money as he was coming back to town anyway after finishing a run. That would never happen in Philly, as soon as the driver would have heard the words 'no money', he'd have been gone.

It would be hard for most places to match up with sunny California, though.

InTheTrees

I'm another 20+ year veteran in the USA. I'm still here in the US though so these are all good experiences to hear.

clairefontaine

sligoface wrote: »

I feel for you OP, moved back here after 24 years, I miss it and i lived in Philadelphia which is much rougher than SoCal, I am now stuck in a dead area for work, unemployed for the second time in the two years since graduating college in 2011, and have no money to move anywhere else.

I like a lot of things about Ireland, I moved back because I went broke trying to afford college in the states, even though I worked full time while in college (crazy schedule, still dunno how i managed that.) I was grateful that I could afford college here without having to do that.

Lots of things I don't miss about the States, I don't miss the over the top bureacracy and powertripping police force, the materialism, the violence, esp. gun violence which is out of control, seing homeless people constantly while billions is spent on the military, the cost of healthcare and possibility of not having access (I know they have Obamacare now), having companies check your credit history for everything under the sun, having to use bill pay phones, having to completely furnish almost every place you rent yourself, and a car being a necessity for most places you live.

But on the other hand, it would be nice to have a proper job market, not have to heat the house nearly year round, not have the town overrun with drunken zombies most nights, not have things not done half-assed so much of the time, and be nice to have taxes pay for something tangible like getting the rubbish taken away, etc.

If you can't take the good with the bad, you will never enjoy living in Ireland. For example, a pet peeve of mine is having to explain my background to the driver every time I get in a taxi to go somewhere, explain why I would live here as opposed to America, etc. Would you not just drive me without prying into my life, I used to think. Then a few weeks ago, I left a house party which had turned into a bad scene, was stuck way out of town at 3 am on a pitch black road, freezing, a bit drunk as well of course, with no money, phone dead. So i started walking. Within ten minutes a car came up, I stuck my thumb out, he stopped and when I got close to the car I saw it was actually a taxi. I went to the window and started telling the driver that I had no money on me but I would sort him out later.

Before I could finish the sentence, the reply came 'Get in ya feckin' eejit!' I got in and then realized it was a driver from town I had used before to go back and forth to work, and he remembered me. Dropped me nearly to my door and said not to worry about the money as he was coming back to town anyway after finishing a run. That would never happen in Philly, as soon as the driver would have heard the words 'no money', he'd have been gone.

It would be hard for most places to match up with sunny California, though.

Sligo is a really small town, you'd probably find similar experiences in small towns in the US if you grew in that town.

You can't really compare Sligo with Philly. I get what you are saying though.

10Jumpers

Thank you all so much for responding! To be honest I thought I would get (deservedly so) a barrage of people telling me it's my own fault but you guys shared personal perspectives and experiences mixed with humor and warmth so I am sincerely thankful to you.

clairefontaine wrote: »

Personally I think you should go back to California if you are that homesick.

Claire, thanks for sharing your father's expereince with me which I can very much relate, regarding going back to California I think you are right. However, in the cold light of day, if I am honest there are others I have to consider in this equation and that is my parents. They are in their late 70's, still quite independant but they were over the moon when I decided to come back, I think at their age it would be a jolt for me to announce I am moving back to the states again. If I am honest I don't know how long I will have my parents so at times that acts almost like a sobering slab on the face to cop myself on and not get caught up in over thinking personal happiness.

lillycool wrote: »

Hi OP,

I feel for you, what a genuine post. I can't give you much advice other than you sound like you are at a crossroads and need to think clearly about whether or not you want to stay here. I am Irish and have lived and worked in US and Ireland and one thing that I picked up from your posts which I wholeheartedly agree with very much as an Irish person - ad customer service in Ireland - this is a particular bug bear of mine.!

Lillycool, thanks so much for responding. indeed, there is a layer of customer service lacking in many Irish businesses. Generally, I find this a problem here more so in the chains and multiples than the sole traders (who in many cases have gone out of their way to help me)

NowThatsCool wrote: »

My family and I were only gone for 7 years so I cant speak to your 20 years experience.
Not sure if I can help you, but I'll try.
We were at a point in our kids education that we either made a commitment to stay for 10 years or return.
Making the decision to return was about the hardest one to make.
We are back 4 years now.
At the end of year one I would have happily gone back to the US. Now nothing would have me go back.
Sure the summers were warm, but the mosquitos devoured me and I totally hated the mucky feel of sun tan lotion.
In the winter (we were in the midwest) the winter stareted at thanksgiving and ran to the following May.
The friends point you make is important. As a matter of fact your US friends are "current" and you have a more active friendship. You will need to rebuild that with your Irish pals.
You say you are more American than Irish. I'm not sure if either category are real or exclusive. I'd say my opinions and attitudes were shaped by everywhere I lived including Ireland and America.
I said that making the decision to return to Ireland was the hardest part and it was. Once we made the decison to return life got way more relaxed. After year 1 when we though of returning to the US the anxiety rose again - 'till we made a difinitive decision to stay in Ireland. For us the choice betwen Ireland and the US was much of a muchness. Either would have worked out fine. The killer was making the decision - and commitment.

NowThatsCool, thanks so much - your expererence was super helpful and you are so right about the decision to stay or go on both sides being the hardest part. I am glad you stuck it out and things worked out!

sligoface wrote: »

If you can't take the good with the bad, you will never enjoy living in Ireland. For example, a pet peeve of mine is having to explain my background to the driver every time I get in a taxi to go somewhere, explain why I would live here as opposed to America, etc. Would you not just drive me without prying into my life, I used to think. Then a few weeks ago, I left a house party which had turned into a bad scene, was stuck way out of town at 3 am on a pitch black road, freezing, a bit drunk as well of course, with no money, phone dead. So i started walking. Within ten minutes a car came up, I stuck my thumb out, he stopped and when I got close to the car I saw it was actually a taxi. I went to the window and started telling the driver that I had no money on me but I would sort him out later.

Before I could finish the sentence, the reply came 'Get in ya feckin' eejit!' I got in and then realized it was a driver from town I had used before to go back and forth to work, and he remembered me. Dropped me nearly to my door and said not to worry about the money as he was coming back to town anyway after finishing a run. That would never happen in Philly, as soon as the driver would have heard the words 'no money', he'd have been gone.

Sligoface, thanks for sharing your story and your experience with the taxi driver is so emblematic of Ireland. As much as there is wrong here, there is a humanity that often transcends dollars and cents, where as in America you can have anything, anytime, anyway you want it so long as you can pay for it. Good luck with your job search!

InTheTrees wrote: »

I'm another 20+ year veteran in the USA. I'm still here in the US though so these are all good experiences to hear.

Hey InTheTrees, I wouldn't want my perspective to color your decision to move or not to move home. I think it's such a individual decision for each of us and our experiences will vary dramaticly depending on our circumstances. I think the one thing I would do if I had my chance again is come for a 1 year trial, not sell up shop in the states during that time, and tell everyone in Ireland I was here only temporarily. Good luck with what you decide.

InTheTrees

10Jumpers wrote: »

Hey InTheTrees, I wouldn't want my perspective to color your decision to move or not to move home. I think it's such a individual decision for each of us and our experiences will vary dramaticly depending on our circumstances. I think the one thing I would do if I had my chance again is come for a 1 year trial, not sell up shop in the states during that time, and tell everyone in Ireland I was here only temporarily. Good luck with what you decide.

Having gone through the death of my Dad and the gradual deterioration of my mum in Ireland while I was in the USA, I can really say you're doing the right thing in going back. I had brothers and sisters taking care of things so I didnt feel serious guilt about not helping. But I was missing out being there anyway.

I've always fantasized about splitting time if I can. 6 months here and 6 months there. Something like that. I've just had no opportunity to make that happen.

clairefontaine

I think if you can make it both/and instead of either/or you are onto something.

On the other hand, when you have a family, like a spouse and kids or a spouse or kids, you are kind of like your own little community and can weather out small bouts of alienation until you find your link in the communities chain.

What I have noticed as time goes by is for some reason, and this goes for both sides of the pond, although Americans are so used to moving around, pilgrim souls as they say, this might be somewhat less so, is that as people get older they start shutting the door on their lives. So this is what you may have found upon your return, and if you are a bachelor it might be harder. When you have kids your automatically in the mommy or daddy club and you are linked in with schools and activities etc so you end up meeting people.

It's understandable you want to stick around for your parents because they are elderly.

Stay for the right reasons and not because you are afraid to change your mind because of losing face or having to start all over again. It's perfectly ok to make mistakes and try again.

But I know the heart breaking killer homesickness you are talking about. It's incredibly painful and I don't know how long people can sustain it before it really takes a grip over you.

10Jumpers

Thanks InTheTrees and clairefontaine, you guys are great. Happy New Year to you both! The doing both here and the states is something I toyed with in my head. If I could make it workable it would def be the best of both worlds. I am a self employed consultant which gives me more flexibility than most.

SHOVELLER

clairefontaine wrote: »

My dad was often nostalgic for the home turf. About 6 months before he got ill he went back to Ireland to consider living out the rest of his days there, but he said he found everyone had gotten very rude, a quite astonishing remark from someone so used to New Yorkers.

Complete myth that New Yorkers are rude btw.

clairefontaine

SHOVELLER wrote: »

Complete myth that New Yorkers are rude btw.

It is and it isn't.

They are direct which can be taken for rudeness, and you will always know where you stand...

I don't find them rude, but I grew up there so I'd be used to it.

I did have to pull over first time I drove in Manhattan though. I started crying from all the abuse.:pac:

SHOVELLER

clairefontaine wrote: »

It is and it isn't.

They are direct which can be taken for rudeness, and you will always know where you stand...

I don't find them rude, but I grew up there so I'd be used to it.

I did have to pull over first time I drove in Manhattan though. I started crying from all the abuse.:pac:

What they have that some here dont is manners. Excuse me, thank you etc and while direct they also dont mumble.

Palmy

At the end of the day, you have to live your life. Not live it for someone else. I have run into countless people while I lived in Ireland who had lived away for years. Most not all after five years wish they had never moved back. But unfortunately couldn't afford to move back after selling up and coming back.
I can understand about your Parents but sadly if you only really came home for them and not other reasons I think you should consider going back (refer to my first sentence).Everyone makes mistakes and at least you gave it a go instead of a what if.
I moved to the States (Florida)for a life style change for me and my family. Not to sound bad,but I wouldn't have moved to somewhere in the States with weather like Ireland that's why I came to Florida. It is a lot harder when you have come home from a place with weather like So/Cal. Everyone says you cant beat Ireland on a good day, well my answer to that is, so is everywhere else.
My Dad always told me you have to give it two years, after that you will have your answer if it was the right decision.

10Jumpers

Palmy wrote: »

At the end of the day, you have to live your life. Not live it for someone else. I have run into countless people while I lived in Ireland who had lived away for years. Most not all after five years wish they had never moved back. But unfortunately couldn't afford to move back after selling up and coming back.
I can understand about your Parents but sadly if you only really came home for them and not other reasons I think you should consider going back (refer to my first sentence).Everyone makes mistakes and at least you gave it a go instead of a what if.
I moved to the States (Florida)for a life style change for me and my family. Not to sound bad,but I wouldn't have moved to somewhere in the States with weather like Ireland that's why I came to Florida. It is a lot harder when you have come home from a place with weather like So/Cal. Everyone says you cant beat Ireland on a good day, well my answer to that is, so is everywhere else.
My Dad always told me you have to give it two years, after that you will have your answer if it was the right decision.

Thanks Palmy. Some good straight forward advice. Take a little sun in for me today would you? :-)

RonnieRocket

Interesting thread. They say that after being away a few years, you never really fit in anywhere. Not 100% in your adopted country and certainly not back in Ireland, after you see how things work properly abroad.
As Irishmen, when we emigrate we tend to look upon the homeland through rose-tinted glasses. We forget the reasons we left in the first place, whether it be lack of jobs, cultural issues (cronyism, nepotism, poor infrastructure, binge drinking) or simply the miserable weather. I think the OP's predicament is more common than we think. It reminds me of an article I read before on Irish Central about a guy who regretted returning to Ireland from the US. If I were you OP, I'd go back to California. You can make it work financially if you really want to. I truly believe the weather has a profound effect on our mood as humans. The damp, dark, cold days of an Irish Winter keeps you holed up inside and chips away at you mentally.