can you get a gun licence if you have a garda caution

micheal1741

i have recently applied for a licence for a 22 hornet for foxing . ive was acting the fool about four years ago with some friends and we vandalised a building i was issued a garda caution and a leasion officer came to see me i payed money for the damage .this is the one and only time ive ever been in truble with law .Ive always hunted and been a member of a gun club sevral times but this is my first gun i want to know if this caution will prevent me from getting a licence

IRLConor

micheal1741 wrote: »

i have recently applied for a licence for a 22 hornet for foxing . ive was acting the fool about four years ago with some friends and we vandalised a building i was issued a garda caution and a leasion officer came to see me i payed money for the damage .this is the one and only time ive ever been in truble with law .Ive always hunted and been a member of a gun club sevral times but this is my first gun i want to know if this caution will prevent me from getting a licence

You're not barred from applying (you'd need to have done something more serious for that) but the Gardai may still use it as grounds to refuse you if they want.

The only way you'll know for sure is to apply.

Cass

On the FCA1 (firearms application form) it asks:

Have you ever been charged, or have charges pending, for any offence

The caution you received. Was it preceded with a court date, summons or anything that had you officially charged with an offence? If the caution is recorded as an offence then you must declare this. If yes to any of the rest of it, then you must declare it also, as a fraudulent application is an offence in it's self.

When determining if a person should have a firearm the Gardaí will check into your background with particular attention to specific trends. Such as do you suffer from/prone to:

• Intemperate habits
• Aggression
• Anti-social behavior
• Domestic disputes
• Evidence of hostility likely to lead to violence

Even if you have been cautioned it may not preclude you from getting a firearm if it was a once off and the incident was nothing of a serious nature.

The real answer, as crap as it is, is that only your Super can determine if you are a suitable candidate for a firearm. You have only one option and that is to apply and see what happens.

micheal1741

Cass wrote: »

On the FCA1 (firearms application form) it asks:

The caution you received. Was it preceded with a court date, summons or anything that had you officially charged with an offence? If the caution is recorded as an offence then you must declare this. If yes to any of the rest of it, then you must declare it also, as a fraudulent application is an offence in it's self.

When determining if a person should have a firearm the Gardaí will check into your background with particular attention to specific trends. Such as do you suffer from/prone to:

• Intemperate habits
• Aggression
• Anti-social behavior
• Domestic disputes
• Evidence of hostility likely to lead to violence

Even if you have been cautioned it may not preclude you from getting a firearm if it was a once off and the incident was nothing of a serious nature.

The real answer, as crap as it is, is that only your Super can determine if you are a suitable candidate for a firearm. You have only one option and that is to apply and see what happens.

i was cautioned y my local guard and there was no further action i was not charged or fined ,My local guard di advise me to pay for the damage but that was not offical .i did get one visit from a liason officer to make sure i was behaving and that was the last i heard from the guards .thaks for the replies lads

micheal1741

im applying for a gun licence and a few years ago i receved a gaurda caution for vandalism ive never been in truble before .the guard told me it was just a caution and it wont be on my record do i need to mention it on my gun aplication??

Cass

Recently a friend of mine was summonsed to court for a breach of the peace. The case is over so i can talk about it.

It was a shouting match between him and a neighbour. It went so far as to be brought to court. Anyway while the case was pending he applied for a shotgun substitution. He got a letter back saying they were awaiting the result of the case before making any decision. This from a chap with 5 guns, no criminal record, not even so much as a parking ticket. At first, and from never having to do it, he never wrote down that he was awaiting a court case. His application was returned by the FO before it got to the Super to rectify this.

My point being if you declare it they will judge you on it. If you don't they will know from the background check, and ask why you did not declare it.


The best advice i can offer is to go to your local station, find the Garda acting as the firearms officer and have a chat with him/her. Run these questions by them and see what they suggest, then act accordingly.

rowa

If someone attacks you in the street and you defend yourself, you can still be charged with public affray, so wind up with a caution or record through no fault of your own.

One shot on kill

Cass wrote: »

The best advice i can offer is to go to your local station, find the Garda acting as the firearms officer and have a chat with him/her. Run these questions by them and see what they suggest, then act accordingly.

This is the best advice you will get I think.

allan450

you will get it dont worry about it.

1shot16

rowa wrote: »

If someone attacks you in the street and you defend yourself, you can still be charged with public affray, so wind up with a caution or record through no fault of your own.

So if you defend yourself you could get your firearm taken away :eek:

Cass

If someone even makes a false report to the Gardaí about you they may/will take your guns away. As a firearm owner you are held in a different light than others. My Uncle was reported by his wife during a messy divorce. She later recanted, admitting she made it up. His firearms were taken from him all the same, and he did not get them back for 2 years even though he had no previous charges/convictions, and no history of trouble or even being known to An Gardaí.

It's a precautionary measure.

So yes you need to stay cleaner than most to remain/be a firearm owner.

rowa

1shot16 wrote: »

So if you defend yourself you could get your firearm taken away :eek:

yup.

aaakev

allan450 wrote: »

you will get it dont worry about it.

Ya cant say that tho, every super is different

allan450

thats true to aswell.just going on a personal basics.thats nothing what he has not even on his record.if he is refused he can go to court and fight it and thats just hassle for the super involved and he has to have a very good resaon/case why he isnt granting it.

Cass

The problem Allan is that a Super can refuse, give a reason and then it's up to the applicant to fight it through the courts. Not a cheap endeavour. TheSuper on the other hand does not have to worry about it after the refusal. The judge, should it get that far, can either grant the license or order the Super to re-evaluate the application.


Also the Super does not need a criminal record to refuse. He can, based on the caution or any other factor (even simply being known to the Gardaí) refuse the license based on intemperate character. This covers a multitude of things, and one it is put in terms of "for public safety" it'll be hard fight to win.

Now i say this as means of an explanation and not to dishearten or discourage the OP from applying.

allan450

i know all to well cass trust me.i guess you just ruined the ops xmas eve then.ha ha.all he can is put in for it

micheal1741

thanks for all the advice lads i really appreciate it . ill still apply but im not hopeful at all now

Cass

As said above lad, i'm not trying to dishearten you. Many lads have asked the same question and gotten the license without a bother.

However i see no good in sugar coating the issue and telling you everything will be fine. It could be or it may not be.

Apply though and keep us updated on how it goes for you.

allan450

i wouldnt be like that.id alot worse then yours so i wouldnt be worrying just yet.ask for a meeting with him first and explain yourself see what happens.

micheal1741

no i appreciate the honesty lads i dont want yee to sugar coat it for me . i think the fact that the safe the gun will be in is my dads and he has the only key and hes the only person i go shooting with will make me look better?

Cass

micheal1741 wrote: »

i think the fact that the safe the gun will be in is my dads and he has the only key and hes the only person i go shooting with will make me look better?

There's a key point.

Has your Father got firearm(s) too? I'm only asking because another route would be to license one of his guns (joint license) and then move onto your own in time. Joint licenses are usually more successful from the point of view that people i know who have had trouble getting their own have been more successful when applying for a joint license with a long time firearm owner.

Just more food for thought.

micheal1741

Cass wrote: »

There's a key point.

Has your Father got firearm(s) too? I'm only asking because another route would be to license one of his guns (joint license) and then move onto your own in time. Joint licenses are usually more successful from the point of view that people i know who have had trouble getting their own have been more successful when applying for a joint license with a long time firearm owner.

Just more food for thought.

yes my dad has a shotgun and a .22 magnum . im looking at the form now and it has the option for the joint use on it do you think if i join use of the gun i bought with my dad i would give me more of a chance?? .thanks for the reply

Cass

My mate's brother was in the same both a few years ago. Bit a trouble maker in his youth, but nothing serious and never charged with anything. However he had problems getting a license of his own. He applied on his Father's shotgun and got it.

Again, no sugar coating, if the Super is going to refuse you he'll refuse you, but as the firearm is already licensed to an experienced shooter the line of thinking is that it'll be more favourably received than you on your lonesome.

Discuss it with your Father. If you go that route then you'll need a letter of permission from him. It;s not mandatory, but helps smooth the application if he writes a letter saying he has no problem with you licensing his firearm. Then in a few weeks to months after you get the license you can do a free substitution to a similar caliber (.22lr, .17hmr, 22wmr, .22 Hornett) for free.

I want to stress that i, nor anyone, can guarantee this would be a better option, but it's definitely worth thinking about.

micheal1741

Cass wrote: »

My mate's brother was in the same both a few years ago. Bit a trouble maker in his youth, but nothing serious and never charged with anything. However he had problems getting a license of his own. He applied on his Father's shotgun and got it.

Again, no sugar coating, if the Super is going to refuse you he'll refuse you, but as the firearm is already licensed to an experienced shooter the line of thinking is that it'll be more favourably received than you on your lonesome.

Discuss it with your Father. If you go that route then you'll need a letter of permission from him. It;s not mandatory, but helps smooth the application if he writes a letter saying he has no problem with you licensing his firearm. Then in a few weeks to months after you get the license you can do a free substitution to a similar caliber (.22lr, .17hmr, 22wmr, .22 Hornett) for free.

I want to stress that i, nor anyone, can guarantee this would be a better option, but it's definitely worth thinking about.

thanks Cass this helps alot .I think ill try appy for the firle myself and put down joint use for my father on it and if i dont get the licence he said he will apply for a licence for the gun i bought. He has owned several diffrent types of guns fro more than 30 years so he sees no reason why they would refuse him a licence . but of course the guards are not stupid if i get refused a licence and soon after my father applys for a licence for the same exact gun they will cop on do you think they will have a problem with that??

Cass

micheal1741 wrote: »

I think ill try apply for the rifle myself and put down joint use for my father on it and if i dont get the licence he said he will apply for a licence for the gun i bought.

Here is the catch. You can apply for a joint license on his gun as he already owns, and has a license for it. You cannot apply for a joint license when neither of you have a license for it. To do that you would need to license it first then have him apply for a second license on it. Or vice versa.

but of course the guards are not stupid if i get refused a licence and soon after my father applys for a licence for the same exact gun they will cop on do you think they will have a problem with that??

No they are not silly, however according to the law each application is judged on it's merits so if you were refused and your Father was too simply because it's the same gun you applied for well that is not just reason. IOW they can refuse for for the caution, but what reason would they have to refuse your Father? They cannot say it's to stop you having a gun as he already has two.

Get my drift.

You have three choices really.

• Go for the rifle you want on your own.
• Go for a joint license on your Father's rifle.
• Have your Father get the rifle first then you license it jointly.

Remember that if you get refused, which may not happen at all, then you must declare this refusal on all future applications. Just saying.

ace86

1shot16 wrote: »

So if you defend yourself you could get your firearm taken away :eek:

So does that mean u stand there and take a beating like a punch bag until your dead or he/they get worn out and give up.:eek:
jesus this country gets better by the day.

rowa

ace86 wrote: »

So does that mean u stand there and take a beating like a punch bag until your dead or he/they get worn out and give up.:eek:

Basically yes.

flounder

I got a caution myself when I was younger. It only stays on file for year. I have never had any problems or asked any questions about it. It's not a conviction

One shot on kill

ace86 wrote: »

So does that mean u stand there and take a beating like a punch bag until your dead or he/they get worn out and give up.:eek:
jesus this country gets better by the day.

No you don't think like that in the first place. And just avoid the situation and not bother.

bravestar

rowa wrote: »

If someone attacks you in the street and you defend yourself, you can still be charged with public affray, so wind up with a caution or record through no fault of your own.

While nothing to do with this thread really, let me clear this up, since it has been quoted a few times.

Everyone is entitled to use reasonable force to defend themselves. The extent of that force used is based upon the circumstance and no clear cut black and white answer is available.

All this scare monger crap annoys the hell out of me but it's really not that difficult, avoid the situation, do not escalate a situation, if possible withdraw from a situation. If your back is against the wall then you can use reasonable force.

Yes, you may have to make a cautioned statement and a file might go off to the Dpp but that's how an investigation works. It doesn't mean you're guilty of doing anything wrong and AGS can see that, but AGS still have a job to do.

If you did nothing wrong then the Dpp will direct no prosecution and that's that.

rowa

bravestar wrote: »

While nothing to do with this thread really, let me clear this up, since it has been quoted a few times.


All this scare monger crap annoys the hell out of me . If your back is against the wall then you can use reasonable force.

Its not scaremongering, its happened to me and several others i know . I was attacked and pinned between two cars by a lowlife well known to the gardai, he was intent on assaulting me a second time, i punched him twice and pushed him to get free, and i then ran off and reported it to the gardai (something i wouldn't do again). I was given an official caution over it for (public affray). Something else not to be happy with the gardai over.

Stella Virgo

micheal1741 wrote: »

i have recently applied for a licence for a 22 hornet for foxing . ive was acting the fool about four years ago with some friends and we vandalised a building i was issued a garda caution and a leasion officer came to see me i payed money for the damage .this is the one and only time ive ever been in truble with law .Ive always hunted and been a member of a gun club sevral times but this is my first gun i want to know if this caution will prevent me from getting a licence

I cud be very wrong here.but i think after 2/3 years a "caution" is erased (a bit like penalty points) if you have not got into any trouble since then...might be advisable to check with citizens advice centre/similar to be sure,(this will not apply if you were actually convicted in court)

bravestar

rowa wrote: »

Its not scaremongering, its happened to me and several others i know . I was attacked and pinned between two cars by a lowlife well known to the gardai, he was intent on assaulting me a second time, i punched him twice and pushed him to get free, and i then ran off and reported it to the gardai (something i wouldn't do again). I was given an official caution over it for (public affray). Something else not to be happy with the gardai over.

I don't know the actual details of the incident so I'm not going to comment. You can winge about AGS all you want, if you really want to discuss it then PM me. I don't think this thread is the place.

One shot on kill

Stella Virgo wrote: »

I cud be very wrong here.but i think after 2/3 years a "caution" is erased (a bit like penalty points) if you have not got into any trouble since then...might be advisable to check with citizens advice centre/similar to be sure,(this will not apply if you were actually convicted in court)

I doubt it's erased completly to be honest. If you went for an interview to the AGS theyed find it fairly quick. But haven said that if you were getting a guarda vetting done I do (as far as I remember) it asks have you any cautions or convictions in the past 5 years I think.

rowa wrote: »

Its not scaremongering, its happened to me and several others i know . I was attacked and pinned between two cars by a lowlife well known to the gardai, he was intent on assaulting me a second time, i punched him twice and pushed him to get free, and i then ran off and reported it to the gardai (something i wouldn't do again). I was given an official caution over it for (public affray). Something else not to be happy with the gardai over.

You say you were attacked. Was it twice in the same nite or two different occasions. You say he was intent on assaulting you so you punched him twice. Did he actually assault you. I know grabbing someone can be considered assault but did action justify yours.

Let's be clear I'm not saying you were in the wrong I DO NOT KNOW.
I think you can use only the minimum amount force necessary to protect your self. No sledge hammer to a peanut situations. Who knows what happen prior to the situation.

Another thing could be that the guy is such a low life that AGS didn't want to do anything because they were waiting to prosicute him on a bigger charge to make sure he never bothered anyone any more.

Just to say I'm not saying you were wrong. It's just another opinion on very vague details.

Sparks

Guys, this topic is well outside the forum's charter. If you're really wondering, go ask about castle doctrine on the legal discussion forum. Thread closed.