Second molar out - negligent?

Hi guys

A few years ago, I had to get my bottom wisdom teeth out. When I went to get it done with an oral surgeon, I was told that the tooth on one side was sitting right on the nerve, making it more likely that I would end up with numbness or tingling which could be permanent. The dentist said she recommended getting the second molar next to it (which had a good bit of decay due to sideways impacted wisdom tooth) out instead. I was shocked, refused to have anything done that day and went home to think about it. I was going to start a Masters course in England a few weeks later plus the decay was quite bad, so needed to make a decision fairly quickly. I went to my normal dentist for a second opinion and he backed up what the oral surgeon had said, my parents just me it was 'just a tooth and not to be so silly' so I decided to listen to the advice and just get the 2nd molar out.

Well, that was over 4 years ago and tbh I've had endless problems since. My bite has totally changed and is still off, I can't chew properly, the wisdom tooth which is left catches on my cheek and makes it bleed, I started clenching after the removal, which I'd never done before. The dentists here seem shocked that I let someone take my molar out and said the risk of permanent numbness is tiny and that there was no reason not to get the wisdom tooth out. They also seem shocked that the oral surgeon told me there was no problem getting the molar out, mentioned nothing about changing bite, discomfort, etc, and made me feel like a vain idiot for being so worried about it.

I've spent an absolute fortune at the dentist and my teeth are still in a bad way. Would I have any sort of case against this oral surgeon who, as far as I can see, totally overstated the risk of numbness/nerve damage? She wouldn't give me a percentage but made it seem like a big risk (my parents were led to believe it was a big risk too) rather than a very small risk, and mentioned nothing about the downsides of losing the molar. I honestly believed at the time that it would be pure foolish to go ahead with the wisdom tooth extraction, and now realise this wasn't the case at all. Absolutely kicking myself that I didn't wait until I got to London for a third opinion, but hindsight is everything, plus the oral surgeon was going on and on about the risks of infection with leaving the decayed tooth in place. What can I do, if anything?

And is there anything at all I can do to fix this? An implant was mentioned, but the gap is quite small now, as the wisdom tooth has come up and partly filled the space left by the second molar.

ballsymchugh

being honest, no dentist is going to comment on that without seeing you, your previous xrays, and the condition the tooth was in before it was removed. it's impossible to say, and i'm pretty sure against site rules to give legal(ish) advice.

the nerve damage risks associated with impacted 3rd molar extraction are real but not 100% predictable, which is why you are the one to make the decision. if you are not happy with it, you don't have to go through with it. in this case, you did. the fact that you left it a few days to think about it and still went ahead with it wouldn't go in your favour.

Oral Surgeon

Maxwell Orange Sympathy wrote: »

Hi guys

A few years ago, I had to get my bottom wisdom teeth out. When I went to get it done with an oral surgeon, I was told that the tooth on one side was sitting right on the nerve, making it more likely that I would end up with numbness or tingling which could be permanent. The dentist said she recommended getting the second molar next to it (which had a good bit of decay due to sideways impacted wisdom tooth) out instead. I was shocked, refused to have anything done that day and went home to think about it. I was going to start a Masters course in England a few weeks later plus the decay was quite bad, so needed to make a decision fairly quickly. I went to my normal dentist for a second opinion and he backed up what the oral surgeon had said, my parents just me it was 'just a tooth and not to be so silly' so I decided to listen to the advice and just get the 2nd molar out.

Well, that was over 4 years ago and tbh I've had endless problems since. My bite has totally changed and is still off, I can't chew properly, the wisdom tooth which is left catches on my cheek and makes it bleed, I started clenching after the removal, which I'd never done before. The dentists here seem shocked that I let someone take my molar out and said the risk of permanent numbness is tiny and that there was no reason not to get the wisdom tooth out. They also seem shocked that the oral surgeon told me there was no problem getting the molar out, mentioned nothing about changing bite, discomfort, etc, and made me feel like a vain idiot for being so worried about it.

I've spent an absolute fortune at the dentist and my teeth are still in a bad way. Would I have any sort of case against this oral surgeon who, as far as I can see, totally overstated the risk of numbness/nerve damage? She wouldn't give me a percentage but made it seem like a big risk (my parents were led to believe it was a big risk too) rather than a very small risk, and mentioned nothing about the downsides of losing the molar. I honestly believed at the time that it would be pure foolish to go ahead with the wisdom tooth extraction, and now realise this wasn't the case at all. Absolutely kicking myself that I didn't wait until I got to London for a third opinion, but hindsight is everything, plus the oral surgeon was going on and on about the risks of infection with leaving the decayed tooth in place. What can I do, if anything?

And is there anything at all I can do to fix this? An implant was mentioned, but the gap is quite small now, as the wisdom tooth has come up and partly filled the space left by the second molar.

Without the X-rays from 4 years ago... who knows.....??

I absolutely hate taking out second molars instead of impacted wisdom teeth. I rarely see a situation where it is the best option.....
IMO, the options where there is an impacted wisdom tooth with a decayed second molar are;

1.
Best; remove the impacted wisdom tooth and then try to restore the second molar (this could be a small filling or more likely a root canal treatment and a crown)

2.
If the second molar is beyond repair or the patient does not want to fix it; remove both wisdom tooth and second molar.

3.
Least ideal; Take out the second molar and leave the wisdom tooth. I don't like this as the wisdom tooth was impacted to start with and will never erupt into an ideal position and therefore will most likely continue to cause problems....

You had option 3 which i don't like. maybe you should have had option 2 as it sounds like the second molar was pretty bad. In the meantime the wisdom tooth appears to have erupted more (as it is interfering with your bite) and may now be not as close to the ID canal/nerve) -(time might have lessened the risk of nerve issues for you)

Hard to say what was best for you back then....
If you were a candidate for option 1 then maybe you have an argument (not a case)....
If you should have done option 2, then the OS should have just done it there and then....
Option 3 rarely works out long term IMO....

ballsymchugh

ballsymchugh wrote: »

being honest, no dentist is going to comment on that without seeing you, your previous xrays, and the condition the tooth was in before it was removed. it's impossible to say, and i'm pretty sure against site rules to give legal(ish) advice.

the nerve damage risks associated with impacted 3rd molar extraction are real but not 100% predictable, which is why you are the one to make the decision. if you are not happy with it, you don't have to go through with it. in this case, you did. the fact that you left it a few days to think about it and still went ahead with it wouldn't go in your favour.

Well, my issue was that I made a decision based on what I now have been told was some very dodgy advice. The dentist made it sound like there was a fairly high possibility of nerve damage and that going ahead and removing the wisdom tooth would be foolish. She wouldn't give me a percentage but I was led to believe it was a 50/50 type situation - I mean, why would anyone even consider removing a second molar unless there was a fairly big risk there? The dentists I've seen in London have said the risk was something like 1-3% - had I known that, I'd have taken the risk. And as I said, the dentist told me there was no real issue with removing the second molar, which just isn't true.

Had she said 'well, you have a risk of nerve damage if I take out the wisdom tooth, but if I take out the 2nd molar, you'll have issues with your bite etc etc', I would have probably made a different decision.

Oral Surgeon

Oral Surgeon wrote: »

Without the X-rays from 4 years ago... who knows.....??

I absolutely hate taking out second molars instead of impacted wisdom teeth. I rarely see a situation where it is the best option.....
IMO, the options where there is an impacted wisdom tooth with a decayed second molar are;

1.
Best; remove the impacted wisdom tooth and then try to restore the second molar (this could be a small filling or more likely a root canal treatment and a crown)

2.
If the second molar is beyond repair or the patient does not want to fix it; remove both wisdom tooth and second molar.

3.
Least ideal; Take out the second molar and leave the wisdom tooth. I don't like this as the wisdom tooth was impacted to start with and will never erupt into an ideal position and therefore will most likely continue to cause problems....

You had option 3 which i don't like. maybe you should have had option 2 as it sounds like the second molar was pretty bad. In the meantime the wisdom tooth appears to have erupted more (as it is interfering with your bite) and may now be not as close to the ID canal/nerve) -(time might have lessened the risk of nerve issues for you)

Hard to say what was best for you back then....
If you were a candidate for option 1 then maybe you have an argument (not a case)....
If you should have done option 2, then the OS should have just done it there and then....
Option 3 rarely works out long term IMO....

Well, the whole reason for not removing the wisdom tooth was that it was 'too close to the nerve', so if I was going to get it taken out, I'd have left the second molar. The 2nd molar wasn't THAT badly decayed from what I understand. I got the impression the dentist started exaggerating how bad it was when she got the idea into her head to remove it. Before that, the plan was to remove the wisdom tooth and fill the molar.

She went on quite a bit about the risk of numbness/tingling, to which I said that would be pretty bad as I need to meet people face to face and speak foreign languages all day long for my job, and she told me some scare stories about patients who had permanent numbness. She then gave me the option of removing the 2nd molar. So yes, I did choose to get the 2nd molar out in the end, but I feel that she totally overstated the risk of numbness and seemed very paranoid about the possibility of someone suing her over it. Yes, I did say it would be particularly bad for me given my job but I was far from happy with the 2nd molar being taken out either.

I don't get why she went on and on and on about the numbness thing - that would freak anyone out and put them off having the wisdom tooth pulled. She really made me feel like some special unfortunate case whereas from what I understand now, it's incredibly common for the tooth to be sitting close to/on the nerve and most of those extractions go perfectly fine.

From what I understand, the wisdom tooth has moved away from the nerve now, but would I not have issues if I removed it now? The idea was basically that it would come up and fill the space left by the 2nd molar, which it kind of has, but obviously there's still a gap there and the tooth is at an awkward angle, cuts my cheek and IMO interferes with my bite. However, I do use it to chew, so if I had it removed, would I not have issues?

Dianthus

I think this is the 3rd or 4th thread about this issue? At this stage, it's probably advisable to seek the advice of a solicitor, & go from there.
Meantime, it's Christmas Eve today. Willy Wonka film is on TV, & there's hot port to be had...enjoy the holidays. Wishing you a happy & peaceful 2014.

ballsymchugh

Dianthus wrote: »

I think this is the 3rd or 4th thread about this issue? At this stage, it's probably advisable to seek the advice of a solicitor, & go from there.
Meantime, it's Christmas Eve today. Willy Wonka film is on TV, & there's hot port to be had...enjoy the holidays. Wishing you a happy & peaceful 2014.

RTE just showed Santy heading off. it's official now! Happy Christmas everyone!

Thanks for the advice.

TBH I would be enjoying Christmas much more if I didn't wake up with an aching jaw every morning and if I could eat without lots of irritation and pain. This is seriously starting to affect my quality of life now.

Things seem to have deteriorated even further since I got my new splint. It was supposed to be perfect for me and stop me clenching, as it fits over my front 6 upper teeth and has a little dipped bit to stop my back teeth touching at all. Problem is, I can't close my mouth while wearing it, so wake up with a sore throat every morning due to having my mouth open, and it genuinely seems to affect my bite a lot. Now that wisdom tooth (next to the pulled 2nd molar) feels really out of place, bangs against the upper teeth awkwardly and as a result of the weird bite, one of my lower front teeth scrapes on the back of one of my upper front teeth when I bite down (there didn't used to be any contact there at all). The dentist said it shouldn't affect my bite but to be blunt, it has. It's immediately noticeable when I wake up in the morning. Plus it seems to have made me jaw pain even worse.

Any idea what I can do? I suppose I'll have to ditch the splint, which means hundreds of euro down the drain, and hope my bite at least goes back to what it was before. Is there any way I could get that wisdom tooth filed down or something so it isn't so bloody irritating, banging off the top molars at that awkward angle? Is anything like that possible?

ballsymchugh

Maxwell Orange Sympathy wrote: »

Thanks for the advice.

TBH I would be enjoying Christmas much more if I didn't wake up with an aching jaw every morning and if I could eat without lots of irritation and pain. This is seriously starting to affect my quality of life now.

Things seem to have deteriorated even further since I got my new splint. It was supposed to be perfect for me and stop me clenching, as it fits over my front 6 upper teeth and has a little dipped bit to stop my back teeth touching at all. Problem is, I can't close my mouth while wearing it, so wake up with a sore throat every morning due to having my mouth open, and it genuinely seems to affect my bite a lot. Now that wisdom tooth (next to the pulled 2nd molar) feels really out of place, bangs against the upper teeth awkwardly and as a result of the weird bite, one of my lower front teeth scrapes on the back of one of my upper front teeth when I bite down (there didn't used to be any contact there at all). The dentist said it shouldn't affect my bite but to be blunt, it has. It's immediately noticeable when I wake up in the morning. Plus it seems to have made me jaw pain even worse.

Any idea what I can do? I suppose I'll have to ditch the splint, which means hundreds of euro down the drain, and hope my bite at least goes back to what it was before. Is there any way I could get that wisdom tooth filed down or something so it isn't so bloody irritating, banging off the top molars at that awkward angle? Is anything like that possible?

seriously, in another thread you said that you were seen at the eastman hospital about this. you should be asking questions there instead of a forum where no matter how well you describe it, we're just guessing.

ballsymchugh

ballsymchugh wrote: »

seriously, in another thread you said that you were seen at the eastman hospital about this. you should be asking questions there instead of a forum where no matter how well you describe it, we're just guessing.

That was several years ago and I waited months for the appointment. You don't just walk in to the Eastman Dental Hospital. I need to persuade my dentist to refer me and have an idea of what sort of thing I'm looking for before I go. Believe it or not, I've read more useful advice here than I've got from my dentist. The dentist (along with the other dentists I've seen in England) just bangs on about how the split and tooth removal shouldn't be affecting my bite when one or both clearly ARE affecting it. They can see my teeth and they still seem to quote from textbooks constantly. I didn't wear my splint last night and I can already feel that my bite has improved slightly.

I'm just worn down from being told X and Y 'shouldn't' be happening when they clearly are.

Dianthus

There has been lots of different issues (gum disease, erosion, wisdom tooth, grinding...all problematic& stress-inducing to a varying extent) over the last 4.5 years, both with English& Irish dentists, & both with general practitioners& with specialists. It's a long time to be suffering. The dental profession as an entire body seem to be failing you, it's peculiar.
It's time to be honest& proactive,& decide on what your true focus needs to be- suing someone, as per the first post in this thread, or solving your issues? Nothing can be done until January anyway. Make whatever phone calls you need to then, & end the cycle for good.

btkm8unsl0w5r4

Agree this everything posted. On a side point the literature does not support the notion that changing the bite for better or worse cures or created joint problems. Plenty of people with a full set of perfect teeth have TMD and plenty of people with terrible bites dont. Its a very complex issue.