Tolls and taxes to increase, thanks Leo

pred racer

Leo donkeyboy Varadkar's latest brainfart.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/taxes-to-force-you-from-car-on-to-bus-29848133.html

Obviously I drive everywhere because busses are so prevalent and motoring is soooooo cheap.:mad:

LeinsterDub

pred racer wrote: »

Leo donkeyboy Varadkar's latest brainfart.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/taxes-to-force-you-from-car-on-to-bus-29848133.html

Obviously I drive everywhere because busses are so prevalent and motoring is soooooo cheap.:mad:

Well Dublin bus are trapped in a price increase drives away customers thus the need for a other price increase loop.

And well private car owners don't have a union

pippip

Had to laugh when I heard this on the radio.

Saying they want people to take public transport when the previous day the news was complaining about overcrowding on the trains

keithmaw

Wont help people like me who drive for a living. Will get to the stage were i cant work with the prices!!!!!

Anan1

It's a kind of a chicken & egg situation. Bad planning has left our population spread out to the point where public transport can't serve many, leaving them completely car dependent. It's going to be a painful transition for many of those people.

djimi

If they are going to increase charges for using your car then they need to lower the price of public transport across the board. Have it cost next to nothing to park and ride on the Luas into town for example. You have to offer people an incentive to use these services; hammering the cost of driving a car is going to achieve nothing more than pissing people off.

pred racer

Anan1 wrote: »

It's a kind of a chicken & egg situation. Bad planning has left our population spread out to the point where public transport can't serve many, leaving them completely car dependent. It's going to be a painful transition for many of those people.

Yes, and one of them is me!

djimi wrote: »

If they are going to increase charges for using your car then they need to lower the price of public transport across the board. Have it cost next to nothing to park and ride on the Luas into town for example. You have to offer people an incentive to use these services; hammering the cost of driving a car is going to achieve nothing more than pissing people off.

indeed, we never seem to get the carrot, only the stick.

h3000

I just had a look at Bus Eireann's journey planner and to get from my home to a one mile walk from my work it would take me 13hrs and 50mins with one stopover. I live about seven miles from work.

doolox

My line of work depends on car transport to various venues throughout the Dublin area. I depend on the M50 for most of my journeys without which I could not function. I do up to 4 different venues each day and would not be able to get to them by bus without spending hours shutlling through "An Lar" to get to those venues. That is part of the problem, the radial nature of Dublins public transport and the low density housing allowed by planners.

Also the need to carry equipment cannot be done on public transport.

I worked for 6 months in the city centre and once I got access to a car parking space and was allowed to adjust my start times/ finish times I was able to cut my commute from 1 hr 15 mins to 35 mins in pure comfort.

I'd happily work nights to avoid having to use public transport, as happens in some countries.

With all the taxes, duties, checkpoints and stoppages put on our roads by the government you would think they are trying to put people off working.

dantastic

I'd love to be able to take the bus to work.

But it would add 2hrs each way to my journey and no matter what, I will not extend my working day by another 4hrs.

For public transport to work it must be carrot rather than stick. In Ireland it's all stick and a rotten carrot.

corktina

that's all very well Leo if you have a bus or train service. We have 3 buses a day , no trains. Many people don't even have rthat

pred racer

It looks to me like he has just spotted a chance to put up Taxes and gain a few quid while trotting out the Green agenda to any dissenters.

Anan1

djimi wrote: »

If they are going to increase charges for using your car then they need to lower the price of public transport across the board. Have it cost next to nothing to park and ride on the Luas into town for example. You have to offer people an incentive to use these services; hammering the cost of driving a car is going to achieve nothing more than pissing people off.

When you look at the bigger picture I think it'd make sense to state fund public transport entirely.

Geomy

I live in the arse hole of the Burren, and work near Limerick. ...
I don't think I have the option of public transport.
Just when the price of fuel is going down they find another way to balance the books. ...

MugMugs

My key issue would be that all roads lead to Dublin...... and not part of the Dublin that I need.

If I want to hit the office it takes me 50 minutes to do the 50 miles involved.

If I take the bus or train then it would take me in excess of 120 minutes!

Fix the problem before you intimate your end game (which is more revenue making)

Anan1

pred racer wrote: »

It looks to me like he has just spotted a chance to put up Taxes and gain a few quid while trotting out the Green agenda to any dissenters.

What he's doing is making it harder for people who don't live near public transport and easier for those who do. The idea is to push people towards living in population centres that are easier to service with transport, healthcare and education. It will be painful for many in the short to medium term, but ultimately it'll be better for everyone.

Gosub

So, what is this imbecile saying? We should all move to an area that is well served by public transport? We should all live within the M50? My nearest bus stop or train station is 20 minutes away..... by car!

How do people with such low intelligence get to positions of power?

creedp

Anan1 wrote: »

What he's doing is making it harder for people who don't live near public transport and easier for those who do. The idea is to push people towards living in population centres that are easier to service with transport, healthcare and education. It will be painful for many in the short to medium term, but ultimately it'll be better for everyone.

The underlined makes me feel a lot better ... so basically its a 'being cruel to be kind' type policy measure. I fully undertand the genius of the plan now! If this was some kind of a joined up strategy fair enough .. but its simply another money grab from people who have no choice. As said earlier providing free park and ride facilities or at least subsidised parking at these facilites ... ffs even providing these bloody facilities would be a lot more effective at changing attitudes to commuting. No chance though .. the idea that this crowd would do something positive for people is simply not a runner .. much prefer to screw you over one more time.

Dr. Sh1te

Gosub wrote: »

How do people with such low intelligence get to positions of power?

Exactly, I find that article very annoying as a rural motorist,

I feel like he should be administered with the lethal injection, for coming out with that :-D

AugustusMinimus

Shelving of the M20 and now this bull****. Varadkar won't be liked in Cork or Limerick.

pred racer

Anan1 wrote: »

What he's doing is making it harder for people who don't live near public transport and easier for those who do. The idea is to push people towards living in population centres that are easier to service with transport, healthcare and education. It will be painful for many in the short to medium term, but ultimately it'll be better for everyone.

And I would welcome such an idea if it were a coherent strategy with the required infrastructue in place (or at least planned) but its not.
If the choice was available then I could understand taxing one option to move people to the other. But without the choice (for about half of the population at a guess) then I have to go back to my previous point that its a cynical revenue generator, with the green agenda to beat people with.
And I will admit, it makes me very angry.

AugustusMinimus

Anan1 wrote: »

What he's doing is making it harder for people who don't live near public transport and easier for those who do. The idea is to push people towards living in population centres that are easier to service with transport, healthcare and education. It will be painful for many in the short to medium term, but ultimately it'll be better for everyone.

So Varadkar and FG are trying to completely restructure the country via increased motor tax.

They are their f***. Just trying to get more cash in the door. Simple as.

Cleveland Hot Pocket

B*stards. That is all. :mad:

We pay already enough motor tax. Over 50% of the price at the pumps is motor tax. Fcuk off.

listermint

Well folks , speak! Thats all you have to do. For too long motorists on here, and many on this forum have been guilty with tax after tax after poorly implemented tax on your main and in many cases only mode of transport and you all sit there idly doing and saying nothing.

Ive contacted ministers many times on issues to express my concerns and voice my opinion.

Everyone here should voice their concerns and opinions.


Submissions on the plan should be emailed to lowcarbonroad- mapfortransport@dttas.ie by February 7.

Chris_Heilong

Leo get the hell out of Office now, your blundering jester like performances fool nobody, its clear you know nothing about transport or motoring.

Padraig Mor

Anan1 wrote: »

What he's doing is making it harder for people who don't live near public transport and easier for those who do. The idea is to push people towards living in population centres that are easier to service with transport, healthcare and education. It will be painful for many in the short to medium term, but ultimately it'll be better for everyone.

Incorrect. As Pred Racer points out, this is just a money grab given an 'environmental' fig leaf of respectability. Experience shows that many / most people prefer public transport if it is a viable, reasonable alternative. People don't take their cars because they don't like public transport or because of "middle class snobbishness" as alleged by a Minister the other day - they take their cars because the public transport alternative is crap. Why else would they voluntarily suffer the punitive, government driven, costs of motoring in Ireland?

Personally speaking, I have possibly more convenient public transport alternatives than most. I could save major, major amounts of money by using a Taxsaver commuter ticket rather than driving. I even tried it on and off for a couple of years. Why do I now drive almost exclusively? Because I like giving the government an extra couple of grand a year in taxes? No, because the public transport option was ****! Unreliable, comparatively slow and, latterly, anti-commuter timetabling. And, as mentioned, I had a better public transport option than most!

Kenny Logins

Public transport isn't too bad where I am, but a 20 minute drive to work becomes a 1.5 hour walk/train/switch/train/walk (assuming the switch is timed right) using public transport. I'm sure in other parts of the city/county/country these figures can be much worse.

Make public transport attractive, don't force motorists off the road. Muppet.

pred racer

listermint wrote: »

Well folks , speak! Thats all you have to do. For too long motorists on here, and many on this forum have been guilty with tax after tax after poorly implemented tax on your main and in many cases only mode of transport and you all sit there idly doing and saying nothing.

Ive contacted ministers many times on issues to express my concerns and voice my opinion.

Everyone here should voice their concerns and opinions.


Submissions on the plan should be emailed to lowcarbonroad- mapfortransport@dttas.ie by February 7.

Do you think they would take any notice of an email from a disgruntled motorist in tipp? (I'm not being sarky, its a genuine question)
Or is it for inputs from co. Councils, focus groups, the AA etc?

jasonbourne.cs

Anan1 wrote: »

When you look at the bigger picture I think it'd make sense to state fund public transport entirely.

I think it would also make sense to make public transport actually appeal to people making it reliable would be a good start . as soon as the moderate weather rolled around , Irishrail were rolling out there "leaf fall" banners and I don't think I've been on a train that's been less that 5 minutes late in a month and usually packed to the rafters with people :rolleyes:

Cleveland Hot Pocket

listermint wrote: »

Well folks , speak! Thats all you have to do. For too long motorists on here, and many on this forum have been guilty with tax after tax after poorly implemented tax on your main and in many cases only mode of transport and you all sit there idly doing and saying nothing.

Ive contacted ministers many times on issues to express my concerns and voice my opinion.

Everyone here should voice their concerns and opinions.


Submissions on the plan should be emailed to lowcarbonroad- mapfortransport@dttas.ie by February 7.

I have just done that.

corktina

Anan1 wrote: »

What he's doing is making it harder for people who don't live near public transport and easier for those who do. The idea is to push people towards living in population centres that are easier to service with transport, healthcare and education. It will be painful for many in the short to medium term, but ultimately it'll be better for everyone.

I live IN the local population centre. We are the biggest town for 15 miles. We have 3 buses a day, the nearest train service is some miles away with a sparse service. Pretty much everyone here depends on the car

How do you get people to ride on buses that don't go where they want to go? For instance, our Social Welfare Office is in the next town and covers a huge area of North Cork. How will people get there if they cannot afford to run a car?

Caliden

Shiny Christmas Mugs wrote: »

My key issue would be that all roads lead to Dublin...... and not part of the Dublin that I need.

If I want to hit the office it takes me 50 minutes to do the 50 miles involved.

If I take the bus or train then it would take me in excess of 120 minutes!

Fix the problem before you intimate your end game (which is more revenue making)

Same situation. 60 minutes by car or ~180 to 240 minutes by public transport each day!!

Cleveland Hot Pocket

Caliden wrote: »

Same situation. 60 minutes by car or ~180 to 240 minutes by public transport each day!!

I'm 30 mins by car but 120+ by luas+bus and there are no trains.

listermint

pred racer wrote: »

Do you think they would take any notice of an email from a disgruntled motorist in tipp? (I'm not being sarky, its a genuine question)
Or is it for inputs from co. Councils, focus groups, the AA etc?

Im sorry but genuine response is, its attitudes such as that which have much of the country as it is.

Yes i do think that if enough motorists voiced their opinion then we would get some change. Thats how democracy works and Ministers always want to appear popular.

Instead unfortunately (im not having a go at you) its attitudes just like that which are 'let someone else do it for me' 'sure no one will take notice of me'


My question is Why?


Voice your concerns, if every motoring forum in the country had members voicing their concerns we would most certainly get some attention.

Chris_Heilong

Cleveland Hot Pocket wrote: »

I have just done that.

I did too for all the good it will do, Blocking all the ministers from going to work and having thousands of cars parked in front of the Government Buildings is the only way to make them take notice IMO.

eviltimeban

I would rather see something be done about parents bringing their (adolescent) kids to school. I live in an area with a few secondary schools, and the roads are chocker block with cars containing one parent and one "child". These boys are generally big enough to get a bike or a bus to school, as they would have to live in the area. The proof is that during school holidays the roads are virtually deserted. Why not give some incentive to get kids out on bikes and give the parents carpooling options or something like that?

Anan1

Padraig Mor wrote: »

Incorrect. As Pred Racer points out, this is just a money grab given an 'environmental' fig leaf of respectability. Experience shows that many / most people prefer public transport if it is a viable, reasonable alternative. People don't take their cars because they don't like public transport or because of "middle class snobbishness" as alleged by a Minister the other day - they take their cars because the public transport alternative is crap. Why else would they voluntarily suffer the punitive, government driven, costs of motoring in Ireland?

Personally speaking, I have possibly more convenient public transport alternatives than most. I could save major, major amounts of money by using a Taxsaver commuter ticket rather than driving. I even tried it on and off for a couple of years. Why do I now drive almost exclusively? Because I like giving the government an extra couple of grand a year in taxes? No, because the public transport option was ****! Unreliable, comparatively slow and, latterly, anti-commuter timetabling. And, as mentioned, I had a better public transport option than most!

This is why I said 'chicken & egg'. Public transport is crap, because it is impossible to properly serve people when they're so spread out.

AugustusMinimus

eviltimeban wrote: »

I would rather see something be done about parents bringing their (adolescent) kids to school. I live in an area with a few secondary schools, and the roads are chocker block with cars containing one parent and one "child". These boys are generally big enough to get a bike or a bus to school, as they would have to live in the area. The proof is that during school holidays the roads are virtually deserted. Why not give some incentive to get kids out on bikes and give the parents carpooling options or something like that?

So much this. In the last 10 years, kids being driven to school has gone crazy. Can't kids walk anymore ?

pred racer

listermint wrote: »

Im sorry but genuine response is, its attitudes such as that which have much of the country as it is.

Yes i do think that if enough motorists voiced their opinion then we would get some change. Thats how democracy works and Ministers always want to appear popular.

Instead unfortunately (im not having a go at you) its attitudes just like that which are 'let someone else do it for me' 'sure no one will take notice of me'


My question is Why?


Voice your concerns, if every motoring forum in the country had members voicing their concerns we would most certainly get some attention.

I think you took me up wrong there.
I wasnt expecting anyone to do anything for me, I was just asking the question!
I dont know if the views of normal motorists are taken into account in these things and I was hoping someone else did.
My only attitude is one of anger that more motoring taxes are being proposed without a viable alternative.

SleeperService

1100 in tax already, id have to be collected by chauffeur before I'd leave it sitting in the driveway all week, wondering will the wheels and windows still be on it when I get home from work.

eviltimeban

Somehow I don't think they're going to introduce congestion charges in the likes of Tullamore or Tipp! I think in those cases they are referring to larger cities.

I agree to a point that people need to have more options to get them out of their cars, but there's always creative ways to do it. I used to HAVE to drive to work as I dropped off / collected my kids from school / creche (they are both under 7). I hated driving in, as the traffic was unpredictable, there were too many idiots on the road, and I was breaking my neck trying to get in on time. Same thing on the way home.

However now I drop them off and park close to a Dart station and get the train the rest of the way in. I have a Leap card so the fare is reduced, and my stress has gone down 100%. I get in on time and I get back on time.

I do think that reduced fares would encourage more people on public transport. I have no suggestions for rural areas as I don't live in a rural area, so I can only speak from my own experience. I've used the Luas and I think its great (I had to do jury duty last year and used it daily for a week to get up to the courts).

And please people, try and be a bit less reactionary - all this "he should be shot" business. Really not cool dudes.

corktina

Anan1 wrote: »

This is why I said 'chicken & egg'. Public transport is crap, because it is impossible to properly serve people when they're so spread out.

The population largely has to be spread out outside the Cities. They are there to service the area with shops and businesses.

Surely the solution is to leave petrol prices alone and impose Tolls in Cities and large towns.

Anan1

corktina wrote: »

The population largely has to be spread out outside the Cities. They are there to service the area with shops and businesses.

Surely the solution is to leave petrol prices alone and impose Tolls in Cities and large towns.

It doesn't have to be as spread out as it is. People in towns and villages can be served by public transport, people living in isolated houses cannot.

listermint

corktina wrote: »

The population largely has to be spread out outside the Cities. They are there to service the area with shops and businesses.

Surely the solution is to leave petrol prices alone and impose Tolls in Cities and large towns.

Why is that the solution ? People living in these areas already pay higher prices than elsewhere in the country for everything.

And the public transport system is no where near as good as other European states so i despise when they throw out stats about car usage versus our EU counterparts.

corktina

well, the thing is, if an improved public transport system is installed, it'll be you guys paying for it anyway!

Anan1

listermint wrote: »

Why is that the solution ? People living in these areas already pay higher prices than elsewhere in the country for everything.

And the public transport system is no where near as good as other European states so i despise when they throw out stats about car usage versus our EU counterparts.

A lot of people live in places where they simply couldn't get by without a car. The only way to get these people out of their cars and onto public transport is to change where they live.

creedp

Anan1 wrote: »

This is why I said 'chicken & egg'. Public transport is crap, because it is impossible to properly serve people when they're so spread out.

Presumably by this you mean that public transport is brilliant in urban settings .. or is it the case its brilliant if you live alongside the DART/LUAS and the rest of you can go to hell.

Anan1

creedp wrote: »

Presumably by this you mean that public transport is brilliant in urban settings .. or is it the case its brilliant if you live alongside the DART/LUAS and the rest of you can go to hell.

Maybe if you lose the chip you'll see that I meant what I said.

corktina

Anan1 wrote: »

A lot of people live in places where they simply couldn't get by without a car. The only way to get these people out of their cars and onto public transport is to change where they live.

For a small proportion of them, ie the Commuters, yes, this would be ideal, but most country dwellers live close to their work and families and cannot move to urban areas. These people would be penalised very unfairly by measures made to try to get people to move. What's more, you cannot sell a house around our way , how will you facilitate people in this situation? Your approach is far too simplistic

Anan1

corktina wrote: »

For a small proportion of them, ie the Commuters, yes, this would be ideal, but most country dwellers live close to their work and families and cannot move to urban areas. These people would be penalised very unfairly by measures made to try to get people to move. What's more, you cannot sell a house around our way , how will you facilitate people in this situation? Your approach is far too simplistic

If you think I'm saying something like 'Everyone just move now' then you've completely misunderstood me. What I am saying is that, in the long run, we need to plan where we live so that basic services, including public transport, are available to the vast majority of people.

Atomic Pineapple

Isn't this a prime example of abolishing the motor tax and putting it on the price of fuel at the pump, the longer you drive the more you pay, if you want to avoid the cost then use public transport from the closest possible point to your home? I know there is issues to be ironed out with it but surely its the solution that should be being assessed?