taking puppy from the litter

marc antonio

Hi folks, its been a while since we had a puppy in our house. So I hope you can help me. We are taking a basset hound pup next week at 8 weeks old but should I bring a blanket to breeder to leave with the puppy and mama for scent purposes and helpthe settling in period. Any other advice welcome. We had our last dog for over 14 years and since she passed we have been pet free for 6 years. So quite out of practice.

fatmammycat

marc antonio wrote: »

Hi folks, its been a while since we had a puppy in our house. So I hope you can help me. We are taking a basset hound pup next week at 8 weeks old but should I bring a blanket to breeder to leave with the puppy and mama for scent purposes and helpthe settling in period. Any other advice welcome. We had our last dog for over 14 years and since she passed we have been pet free for 6 years. So quite out of practice.

If you can leave that pup with the mother for another two weeks, even four if possible, you will save yourself a TON of work on house training and sleeping at night: bassets are fab dogs ( my friend had one for 15 years) but slow to mature, hard to train ( stubborn and scent driven) and total howlers when distressed. They shed constantly too It's better to know all of this in advance.
The difference between a 12 week pup and an 8 week pup is huge and personally I'd never take a pup younger than 12 weeks again if possible.
It might not be possible for you of couse, in which case blankets won't make a lick of difference. I would suggest you crate train the pup from the word go and be ultra ultra patient. Puppies are a huge amount of work, and as adorable as they are, they can drive you up the walls. Being so young he or she won't have any real bladder control, and it's up to you to set up that routine. God, eight-week bassets are so cute and I do wish you the best, just remember, be patient!

fatmammycat

Er, in case that all sounded overly....negative- her dog was a brilliant dog for the bulk of his life, especially when she found what motivated him (cheese), after that she could train him to do pretty much anything. He was just very tough going as a puppy; some breeds are, it doesn't mean they're not totally worth it, just, y'know, be realistic and patient.

Mince Pie

and post pics!!!

ZiabR

Did a bit of reading on the Basset Hound. They sound like great dogs. I would agree with the post about waiting if at all possible until the dog is 10 weeks or even 12 weeks old. Just means you get more sleep etc, but if you have already agreed to take the pup at 8 weeks, ok

Found this about the training:

Commonly misconceived as "stubborn", in actuality basset hounds are extremely food driven and easy to train. Bassets are quick to shut down if trained using punishment-based training methods and therefore are given the description of "stubborn". The fastest way to a Basset's heart is through his stomach. Keep training fun and interesting and offer delicious treats to keep them focused on the task at hand since that nose can distract them very easily.

Lemlin

fatmammycat wrote: »

If you can leave that pup with the mother for another two weeks, even four if possible, you will save yourself a TON of work on house training and sleeping at night: bassets are fab dogs ( my friend had one for 15 years) but slow to mature, hard to train ( stubborn and scent driven) and total howlers when distressed. They shed constantly too It's better to know all of this in advance.
The difference between a 12 week pup and an 8 week pup is huge and personally I'd never take a pup younger than 12 weeks again if possible.
It might not be possible for you of couse, in which case blankets won't make a lick of difference. I would suggest you crate train the pup from the word go and be ultra ultra patient. Puppies are a huge amount of work, and as adorable as they are, they can drive you up the walls. Being so young he or she won't have any real bladder control, and it's up to you to set up that routine. God, eight-week bassets are so cute and I do wish you the best, just remember, be patient!

I have to say I disagree with this totally. From 8 weeks is a vital time to allow the puppy to move to its new home and settle in. It needs time to adjust in its key behavioural learning stage to what will be its environment for the rest of its life.

Personally, I would never take a pup older than 9 weeks of age. For me, the pup would be too old past that stage and would have spent too long in its original home,

In regard to the blanket OP, the breeder should give you a small cutting of the bedding that the litter were on. I also find that a cuddly toy helps with young pups.

DBB

There is mounting evidence that there is considerable variation between breeds as to when is the optimum time to take them from their mum, behaviourally speaking... Some should really be left a bit longer than others, some have more extended socialisation periods and critical periods of sensitivity than others.
I must have a root to see if I can find more detail about this!

marc antonio

Thanks ddb. Id love to hear from you regarding the basset hound.

fatmammycat

Lemlin wrote: »

I have to say I disagree with this totally. From 8 weeks is a vital time to allow the puppy to move to its new home and settle in. It needs time to adjust in its key behavioural learning stage to what will be its environment for the rest of its life.

What are you basing this on? Pups, indeed most dogs ( fully grown, rescued or bought) bond with whoever feeds and looks after them. They settle in as easily at 12 weeks as they do at 8 ( more if you ask me because you can socalise them and play with them more) , but they're a little more mature and have learned a lot more from their mother/siblings. Their bladders are stronger and they are more aware of their surroundings. I got my own dog at 13 weeks and he was easy to train, practically house broken ( though not fully, that took another few days) and slept all night from the word go. Yet he is a bonded to me as velcro. I don't get why 8 weeks is so 'vital'. If you get them at 10/12 weeks they still have all the time in the world to bond with their new owners.

fatmammycat

Lemlin wrote: »

Personally, I would never take a pup older than 9 weeks of age. For me, the pup would be too old past that stage and would have spent too long in its original home,

.

Too old for what?

ShaShaBear

fatmammycat wrote: »

What are you basing this on? Pups, indeed most dogs ( fully grown, rescued or bought) bond with whoever feeds and looks after them. They settle in as easily at 12 weeks as they do at 8 ( more if you ask me because you can socalise them and play with them more) , but they're a little more mature and have learned a lot more from their mother/siblings. Their bladders are stronger and they are more aware of their surroundings. I got my own dog at 13 weeks and he was easy to train, practically house broken ( though not fully, that took another few days) and slept all night from the word go. Yet he is a bonded to me as velcro. I don't get why 8 weeks is so 'vital'. If you get them at 10/12 weeks they still have all the time in the world to bond with their new owners.

Totally agree with fatmammycat here.

Mama dog teaches her pups lessons over the first 12 or so weeks that could take us twice as long to teach a pup. Never mind the extra time that teaches them how to correctly interact with other dogs (by playing with siblings and mother) and the extra lessons they learn about dealing with people, noises around the house and children (as good breeders will be exposing the puppies to this).
The longer they are in their own home, the better prepared they are for their new one. At 12 weeks they are not going to suddenly and irreversibly bond with their breeder - if that were the case, rescued and privately rehomed adult dogs would never be able to deal with the change.

Knine

To be honest it really depends on the litter/breed of dog.

Often my terrier babies would be ready at 8 weeks old and happy to see the back of each other

However some the bigger breeds could do with staying a bit longer with their litter mates and mother.

Mine usually go about 10 weeks. I would have no problem taking an older puppy and have done so in the past with no issues.

fatmammycat

Knine wrote: »

To be honest it really depends on the litter/breed of dog.

Often my terrier babies would be ready at 8 weeks old and happy to see the back of each other

However some the bigger breeds could do with staying a bit longer with their litter mates and mother.

Mine usually go about 10 weeks. I would have no problem taking an older puppy and have done so in the past with no issues.

Terriers are smart and quick learners, bassets are pretty slow to mature, I love them, but they take quite a bit of time to 'get things', that another dog might pick up quicker- although as I've said, once they have it they are great. People forget too, they're big dogs on short legs

Lemlin

fatmammycat wrote: »

What are you basing this on? Pups, indeed most dogs ( fully grown, rescued or bought) bond with whoever feeds and looks after them. They settle in as easily at 12 weeks as they do at 8 ( more if you ask me because you can socalise them and play with them more) , but they're a little more mature and have learned a lot more from their mother/siblings. Their bladders are stronger and they are more aware of their surroundings. I got my own dog at 13 weeks and he was easy to train, practically house broken ( though not fully, that took another few days) and slept all night from the word go. Yet he is a bonded to me as velcro. I don't get why 8 weeks is so 'vital'. If you get them at 10/12 weeks they still have all the time in the world to bond with their new owners.

I'm basing it on the opinion of a dog behaviourist I speak to regularly.

I'm also basing it on plenty of research completed.

From a simple Google search:

http://www.paws.org/puppy-developmental-stages.html

7–8 Weeks
This is the ideal time for going home. This is the very best age for forming strong bonds with people. Puppies are mentally mature enough to adjust to changes, and to begin their training in manners. Research on this critical period has even pinpointed the 49th day as the ideal day for going into a new home.

8–10 Weeks
Sometimes referred to as the "fear period," the puppy is especially impressionable now. Object-associations formed during this period leave indelible imprints. It's vital that the puppy have as many positive experiences with people, other animals, and novel situations as can be arranged.

It's equally vital to avoid painful or scary experiences until after 11 weeks. Those mildly unpleasant experiences that can't be avoided (like puppy shots) should be turned into positive ones by your reaction. Always "jolly up" a scared puppy by laughing, praising the puppy, and treating the event as a game. Never give the appropriately human empathetic response of soothing reassurance, as this convinces the puppy that it must be really awful since you're upset too.

http://wonder-puppy.com/puppy-development-stages/

7–16 WEEKS (2ND SOCIALIZATION PERIOD)
The optimal time for puppies to be placed with their new human families is at 7-8 weeks of age. As soon as your puppy comes home, time is of the essence for you to provide a huge heaping of high quality socialization and schooling. This is the key to creating a socially self-confident, well-behaved puppy that is strongly bonded to you. It is also the key to preventing yappy, shy, and/or aggressive behaviors from developing later in life! Click here to read what one well-respected veterinarian has to say about the importance of early socialization and schooling.
Fear-Impact Period: During the 2nd Socialization Period, when your puppy is around 8-11 weeks of age, it is important to be aware of what is known as a Fear-Impact Period. If puppies have “bad” or scary experiences during this time, the impressions are likely to last a lifetime and resurface during maturity. So, protect your puppy from these long-term effects by avoiding bad experiences. Should your puppy become afraid for any reason, dangerous or not, immediately step in and remove him/her from the situation. That is good parenting!

http://www.dog-care-knowledge.com/puppy-development.html

Stage 3: Socialization Period at 3-12 Weeks
In my opinion, this is the most important stage of a puppy's development. It's also the stage where the most critical changes occur, and guess what, you're probably going to bring your puppy home during this period! Most puppies go home to their new parents at the age of 7 - 9 weeks so understanding this stage is vital.

Those are just three of many articles which support the 8 week theory. I also have emails from that behaviourist friend in work where we were discussing it. I'll post some of the views given tomorrow.

Bassett hounds may be different as others have said. I am only familiar with terriers, Springers and Labradors in terms of breeds. I certainly wouldn't be happy to bring a pup of any of those breeds home at 12 weeks when the key 8 to 12 week socialisation period is over.

As I said, my personal preference is that I wouldn't take a pup over 9 weeks, particularly as I have young kids and would want the pup to bond with them in its key socialisation period.

I'm also the first person on the thread to actually provide some other reading to back up my opinion.

borderlinemeath

I do think it varies, breed to breed. I recall a seminar where it was discussed (Professor Peter Neville, COAPE) and that while breeds such as labradors can have a learning period of taking in new experiences of up to 72 days from birth, A breed such as the Yorkshire Terrier has only 34 days before they become wary and fearful of new experiences.

Can anybody else who was there recall the details? It was based on a study done in the US for a COAPE students masters degree (I think)

fatmammycat

There's a HUGE difference between best age for bonding and best age for socialisation, huge. I imagine it is true that early interaction with people and things creates a better more rounded dog- depending on inherent temperament- but the case for allowing a pup to remain with its mother until older also has merit.
A breeder can socialise a pup from very early, but bonding can take place at any time, and indeed does, or otherwise a rescue dog would never be able to attach to a new family, nor a working dog to a new owner, and yet they do all the time.
For example, my GSD - whom I took at 13 weeks– was born to a househould with small children who handled and played with him as soon as he could see, to this day he adores children, despite having almost no interaction with them any longer. That is socilaisation, the building blocks of his personality. But in terms of bonding, no other dog I've ever owned, and I've owned a few, has ever been as 'tight' with me as he is, despite my not collecting him from the breeder before 13 weeks. I would also argue, and have, that his being older helped HIM enormously with the period of adjustment, and by default, me.
Research is fluid and view change as times goes on- raw feeding, alpah theory, dominance- we can only give our view and ask opinions and judge for ourselves what might and might not work. I understand that all dogs are different and different breeds have different requirements- I am basing my own view on personal knowledge of a very sweet now deceased basset hound.

Lemlin

fatmammycat wrote: »

There's a HUGE difference between best age for bonding and best age for socialisation, huge. I imagine it is true that early interaction with people and things creates a better more rounded dog- depending on inherent temperament- but the case for allowing a pup to remain with its mother until older also has merit.
A breeder can socialise a pup from very early, but bonding can take place at any time, and indeed does, or otherwise a rescue dog would never be able to attach to a new family, nor a working dog to a new owner, and yet they do all the time.
For example, my GSD - whom I took at 13 weeks– was born to a househould with small children who handled and played with him as soon as he could see, to this day he adores children, despite having almost no interaction with them any longer. That is socilaisation, the building blocks of his personality. But in terms of bonding, no other dog I've ever owned, and I've owned a few, has ever been as 'tight' with me as he is, despite my not collecting him from the breeder before 13 weeks. I would also argue, and have, that his being older helped HIM enormously with the period of adjustment, and by default, me.
Research is fluid and view change as times goes on- raw feeding, alpah theory, dominance- we can only give our view and ask opinions and judge for ourselves what might and might not work. I understand that all dogs are different and different breeds have different requirements- I am basing my own view on personal knowledge of a very sweet now deceased basset hound.

Have you ever actually bred a dog or had first hand experience of a litter of pups?

I recently bred my Labrador. The pups went to their new homes at 8.5 weeks. In my opinion, although I would never have released them to the people who had ordered pups, they were just as ready at 7 weeks as they were at 8. That's why I'm not surprised to see an article above mention 49 days,

The people who bought pups have since come back to me about how well trained the pups were. My own pup, for example, was sleeping from 11 until 7 each night without the need for a toilet break from about 11 weeks. Previous to that, she only needed one break.

I notice users above stating pups learn alot from their mothers in the first 12 weeks. While that may be true, I've seen plenty of litters over the years where the mother has distanced herself from the pups by six weeks, or even earlier in extreme cases. The fact is the puppy's main requirement for their mother is food but mother knows its time they stood on their own four paws. She also doesn't want the pain of attempting to feed now they have sharp teeth! My own pups were eating food from just under three weeks. By five weeks, they didn't require anything from my dog.

My dog had nine pups. I wouldn't see the point in each pup experiencing the socialisation period of 8 to 12 weeks with their 8 litter mates. The majority of them went to homes where they would be the sole dog so surely it is better for them to be socialised in that environment with their new families.

jimf

I can see an argument for both sides personally I have seen pups from the same litter being at different stages of development at 8/9/10/11/12 weeks I let any prospective owner have the pups when I see fit and not when they want them but deff not before 10 weeks

as for having pups weaned completely off the mother and on solids at 6 weeks is just too early in my opinion any good mother fed properly and I mean a diet to suit the workload her poor body has gone through will produce milk up to and including 6weeks why not supplement and help mum but let her give the pups natures best I always wean my pups over a 10 day period with supervised suckling visits to mums quarters at least 3 times daily and always with herself lying and split the litter that way no hardship and dragging of the teats

and with nails clipped as well I should add

im sure some on here wont agree but it works for me so im happy and pups and mum always seem happy as well and that to me is most important

Lemlin

jimf wrote: »

I can see an argument for both sides personally I have seen pups from the same litter being at different stages of development at 8/9/10/11/12 weeks I let any prospective owner have the pups when I see fit and not when they want them but deff not before 10 weeks

as for having pups weaned completely off the mother and on solids at 6 weeks is just too early in my opinion any good mother fed properly and I mean a diet to suit the workload her poor body has gone through will produce milk up to and including 6weeks why not supplement and help mum but let her give the pups natures best I always wean my pups over a 10 day period with supervised suckling visits to mums quarters at least 3 times daily and always with herself lying and split the litter that way no hardship and dragging of the teats

and with nails clipped as well I should add

im sure some on here wont agree but it works for me so im happy and pups and mum always seem happy as well and that to me is most important

I have to agree that alot can depend on the litter. My Labrador pups were good strong pups because my dog was so good at feeding them in the early stages.

That said, she had been on puppy food through the pregnancy along with plenty of meat as she's raw fed. After she had the pups, I was also giving her ten boiled eggs as a source of extra protein each day. You can have the best fed dog in the world though but some bitches just don't make good mothers. I was lucky with mine.

By the eight week mark, and their inoculations, the pups were all between 5.5kg to 6.5kg so the vet and I were more than happy to release them to their new homes. I really don't see how me keeping them another week could have aided their development.

fatmammycat

Lemlin wrote: »

Have you ever actually bred a dog or had first hand experience of a litter of pups?

I recently bred my Labrador. The pups went to their new homes at 8.5 weeks. In my opinion, although I would never have released them to the people who had ordered pups, they were just as ready at 7 weeks as they were at 8. That's why I'm not surprised to see an article above mention 49 days,

The people who bought pups have since come back to me about how well trained the pups were. My own pup, for example, was sleeping from 11 until 7 each night without the need for a toilet break from about 11 weeks. Previous to that, she only needed one break.

I notice users above stating pups learn alot from their mothers in the first 12 weeks. While that may be true, I've seen plenty of litters over the years where the mother has distanced herself from the pups by six weeks, or even earlier in extreme cases. The fact is the puppy's main requirement for their mother is food but mother knows its time they stood on their own four paws. She also doesn't want the pain of attempting to feed now they have sharp teeth! My own pups were eating food from just under three weeks. By five weeks, they didn't require anything from my dog.

My dog had nine pups. I wouldn't see the point in each pup experiencing the socialisation period of 8 to 12 weeks with their 8 litter mates. The majority of them went to homes where they would be the sole dog so surely it is better for them to be socialised in that environment with their new families.

Of course I've experience of pups, my father bred working collies (as cattle dogs, not sheep)- which all went to homes at around ten weeks. I've had pups of my own over the years, various ages when I got them, fostered three mixed breeds and rescued and kept one six month old that had never been socialised, not even for a single day of his life, My personal experience IS what makes me prefer an older more mature pup, such as I got with my last dog.
We seem to be arguing at cross purposes here, some dogs can and do pretty well leaving home at eight weeks, others benefit greatly being left longer with their mothers, bassets, in my humble opinion– having had experience with the breed– fall into the former. At the end of the day, the OP will decide and what is right for him.