BMW 2 Series Active Tourer - BMW's answer to B-Class

Moses7

spied in 5-seat configuration. a 7-seater is set to follow later.

I don't know about it - not good or bad. just another boring bimmer.

more pics here.

Foxhole Norman

I generally like new BMs but that is damn ugly.

Eric Cartman

1.5 litre 3 cylinder FWD . I got that far and stopped reading. This is a brand ruining car.

HandsomeDan

Brand damaging.

Makes me ashamed to own a BMW

road_high

Looks like a Kia Carens...from 5-10 years ago. Awful.

YbFocus

This is a new low!

listermint

Weirdly enough in that image the front looks fake. As if it was photoshop of 2/3 cars thrown together.



Dislike

Larbre34

Press the vomit button. What is it with German marques squeezing into segments nobody asked for, then having to compete with each other by designing eyesores like that.

Cancel it and take the 3 and 5 GTs, 6GC and X6 with it.........

AugustusMinimus

Larbre34 wrote: »

Press the vomit button. What is it with German marques squeezing into segments nobody asked for, then having to compete with each other by designing eyesores like that.

Cancel it and take the 3 and 5 GTs, 6GC and X6 with it.........

One of the few good cars BMW have made lately. Nothing at all wrong with it.



To me, the X1 is worse than anything you've mentioned.

Zubeneschamali

Eric Cartman wrote: »

This is a brand ruining car.

I don't think there is any such thing.

The original elk-test Mercedes A class should have been it: falls over, interior made from recycled Toyota plastics - but Mercedes made it for years, and replaced it with another FWD hatch. Meanwhile, they canned their super-limo Maybach brand.

Porsche making a tractor? No problem! BMW putting an M badge on a tractor? Sure, why not! Automatic Ferrari? Let's make them ALL automatics! BMW electric city car - knock yourself out!

You really can't ruin a brand by launching models outside your brands traditional niche, as long as you keep making good cars.

maceocc2

Send it on over to this thread...Quick...get it outta here
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=87458660

Eric Cartman

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

I don't think there is any such thing.

The original elk-test Mercedes A class should have been it: falls over, interior made from recycled Toyota plastics - but Mercedes made it for years, and replaced it with another FWD hatch. Meanwhile, they canned their super-limo Maybach brand.

Porsche making a tractor? No problem! BMW putting an M badge on a tractor? Sure, why not! Automatic Ferrari? Let's make them ALL automatics! BMW electric city car - knock yourself out!

You really can't ruin a brand by launching models outside your brands traditional niche, as long as you keep making good cars.

I still think all of those diluted mercedes , BMW's and porsches brand.

Just because something sells well because its cheap , doesn't mean its a good product or good for the brand image.

Zubeneschamali

Eric Cartman wrote: »

I still think all of those diluted mercedes , BMW's and porsches brand.

Selling tractors probably saved Porsche's brand.

challengemaster

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Porsche making a tractor? No problem! BMW putting an M badge on a tractor? Sure, why not! Automatic Ferrari? Let's make them ALL automatics! BMW electric city car - knock yourself out!

You really can't ruin a brand by launching models outside your brands traditional niche, as long as you keep making good cars.

People tend to forget that lamborghinis roots are actual tractors

Lets be honest - If companies didn't make cars that branch into each segment, then they wouldn't be able to produce the cars they became best known for. BMW wouldn't exist if it was to rely on sales of M cars alone. Car companies also exist to make money, and if people are going to buy something, why not make it?

Eric Cartman

challengemaster wrote: »

People tend to forget that lamborghinis roots are actual tractors

Lets be honest - If companies didn't make cars that branch into each segment, then they wouldn't be able to produce the cars they became best known for. BMW wouldn't exist if it was to rely on sales of M cars alone. Car companies also exist to make money, and if people are going to buy something, why not make it?

its not that anyone has a problem with them manufacturing the cars, its the branding really. The toyota lexus model works well. so does the VAG model. If BMW had a different badge and marque for their lower end stuff (all the diesels except the *35d and *40d , the 1 series, this monstrosity, the 5 series GT , ) it would allow them to keep selling cars to make money, while retaining the valued badge for V8 petrol saloons/coupe's and M power weapons. They might even be able to eat into bentley territory with a more luxurious 7 series, something they could never do as long as something like the 316d is carrying the same badge around on it.

challengemaster

I'm going to take a wild guess here that the people in charge of BMW probably have a better idea how to run the company than you (or me, or anyone here)

They already have a badge to separate the important cars from the rest - the M badge.

People buy BMWs because they're BMWs, they're associated with prestiege (even if they're paddy spec). Particularly in Ireland, people will buy the ****tiest one they can afford for the badge. That in itself is enough reason for them NOT to set up a sub-brand, it suggests people wouldn't buy it. At the end of the day, it's money in their pocket - they don't care.

Zubeneschamali

Eric Cartman wrote: »

If BMW had a different badge and marque for their lower end stuff

I know, they could call it MINI ! Or "Rover"!

Yakuza

Fugly. That is all.
/thread

Stallingrad

BMW's obsession with niche and i cars has IMO diminished their prestige at the top end, the 7 series barely gets a mention anywhere these days and rarely in the same breath as the S-class, I can't see the new one changing that either. It's a pity as for a while they did outdo the S-class with the E32 and E38. Even the 6 is a bit 'so what'.

They know what they are doing, they do the smaller stuff brilliantly, and I guess that is really where the growth is.

Eric Cartman

challengemaster wrote: »

People buy BMWs because they're BMWs, they're associated with prestiege

exactly, an association that they didnt get by building 3 cylinder fwd mammy cars , and an association they wont keep for very long if they continue.

challengemaster

Eric Cartman wrote: »

exactly, an association that they didnt get by building 3 cylinder fwd mammy cars , and an association they wont keep for very long if they continue.

You're looking at it head about arse, really.

Rather than focusing on being a prestige only brand, such as bentley, BMW are segmenting the market and then focusing on producing a model to fulfil or compete within the prestige niche within that segment, with each and every segment.

3 door coupé
5 door saloon
3/5 door hatch
executive saloon
4wd / Jeep
MPV
etc..

I find it hilarious that Mercedes doesn't get whinged at as much for doing the exact same thing.

Seweryn

challengemaster wrote: »

I find it hilarious that Mercedes doesn't get whinged at as much for doing the exact same thing.

Yep, and AMG is now making a 4-cylinder turbocharged engine. No complaints?

Stallingrad

challengemaster wrote: »

I find it hilarious that Mercedes doesn't get whinged at as much for doing the exact same thing.

Historically people just care more about BMW than Mercedes, hence the hand wringing and histrionics that follows every new car launch.

Eric Cartman

Stallingrad wrote: »

Historically people just care more about BMW than Mercedes, hence the hand wringing and histrionics that follows every new car launch.

Mercedes make trucks and vans and have always been a fairly wide brand , the A, B and R class are a slight on their marque though.

Bmw models , spec and design realistically all made sense up until 2002 , after that its gone downhill , the 3, 5, 7 , z and X5 were where they should have stopped in my book . When the smallest available bmw was an e46 316 which was a 1.9 NA petrol .

ba_barabus

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Bmw models , spec and design realistically all made sense up until 2002 , after that its gone downhill , the 3, 5, 7 , z and X5 were where they should have stopped in my book . When the smallest available bmw was an e46 316 which was a 1.9 NA petrol .

Sadly EU emissions legislation has stepped in and forced them to do it. That, and I doubt they will be around in the future if they don't.

I also doubt many owners even know the cars are RWD or care......especially when it comes to buying the cheap ones so you can park a brand on the driveway.

Zubeneschamali

Eric Cartman wrote: »

the A, B and R class are a slight on their marque though.

I think the R-Class is the only sensible large merc.

wrt40

I'm actually considering this car. I was hell bent on an A3 Saloon but this ticks more boxes for practicality. I'm looking for a touch of quality but also needs to be suitable for a small family. I don't actually consider it an MPV, its more like a very practical hatchback.

I think BMW have done well to branch out into other segments. They've done well to shake off their "prick in the beemer" image. We all know the type, suit jacket hanging in the back, no regard for speed limits, overtake multiple cars at a go, too important to indicate etc etc. These types will style have their luxury saloons, nothing has changed there. I seriously doubt that BMW having a mini-MPV will become a negative factor when some is considering what luxury saloon to buy.

fmcg_scribe

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

I think the R-Class is the only sensible large merc.

R class was a sales failure for Mercedes (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes-Benz_R-Class).

fmcg_scribe

wrt40 wrote: »

I'm actually considering this car. I was hell bent on an A3 Saloon but this ticks more boxes for practicality. I'm looking for a touch of quality but also needs to be suitable for a small family. I don't actually consider it an MPV, its more like a very practical hatchback.

I think BMW have done well to branch out into other segments. They've done well to shake off their "prick in the beemer" image. We all know the type, suit jacket hanging in the back, no regard for speed limits, overtake multiple cars at a go, too important to indicate etc etc. These types will style have their luxury saloons, nothing has changed there. I seriously doubt that BMW having a mini-MPV will become a negative factor when some is considering what luxury saloon to buy.

2 series active tourer has received generally favourable reviews but diesel engines have been criticised and space/practicality compared to some rivals has also been criticised. Still, it should provide stiff competition for the Merc B class.

wrt40

fmcg_scribe wrote: »

2 series active tourer has received generally favourable reviews but diesel engines have been criticised and space/practicality compared to some rivals has also been criticised. Still, it should provide stiff competition for the Merc B class.

What was the criticism of the diesel engine?

fmcg_scribe

wrt40 wrote: »

What was the criticism of the diesel engine?

The beef seems to be refinement of the diesel versus the petrol equivalent.

Some example reviews:
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/bmw/2-series/active-tourer
http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/bmw/2-series/first-drives/bmw-2-series-active-tourer-218d-first-drive-review
http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/bmw/2-series/first-drives/bmw-218i-sport-active-tourer-first-drive-review
http://www.whatcar.com/car-news/bmw/2-series-active-tourer/2014-bmw-2-series-active-tourer-review/1303321

mickdw

In appearance alone, this 2 series is a disgrace to the bmw name.

Zubeneschamali

From one of those reviews:

the Active Tourer doesn’t have three individual rear seats. It’s a conventional bench arrangement

Bit mad in a new MPV-like vehickle

fmcg_scribe

mickdw wrote: »

In appearance alone, this 2 series is a disgrace to the bmw name.

I suppose that Merc drivers said the same when the Smart car, the A class, and the B class were launched.

The Mini, Rolls Royce, and the X5 were big departures for the BMW brand but they paid off and made the company more sustainable and profitable. The new i sub brand is yet another new departure. Jury is out about X6, 5 series GT, and some of the plans for the 1 and 2 series ranges.

wrt40

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

From one of those reviews:

the Active Tourer doesn’t have three individual rear seats. It’s a conventional bench arrangement

Bit mad in a new MPV-like vehickle

MPV-Like being the operative term here. It's only like an MPV. It's not really an MPV. I notice some foreign reviews call it just the active tourer and don't use the MPV, might be a regional thing?

the seats slide back and forwards so you can adjust leg space\boot space. It's definitely more than a hatchback, but not on a par with say the C4 Picasso with regards to being an MPV.

Looks to me it's main competitor is the Golf SV.

Tea 1000

wrt40 wrote: »

I'm actually considering this car. I was hell bent on an A3 Saloon but this ticks more boxes for practicality. I'm looking for a touch of quality but also needs to be suitable for a small family. I don't actually consider it an MPV, its more like a very practical hatchback.

I think BMW have done well to branch out into other segments. They've done well to shake off their "prick in the beemer" image. We all know the type, suit jacket hanging in the back, no regard for speed limits, overtake multiple cars at a go, too important to indicate etc etc. These types will style have their luxury saloons, nothing has changed there. I seriously doubt that BMW having a mini-MPV will become a negative factor when some is considering what luxury saloon to buy.

Before they had the image of "Look at that prick in his BMW thinking he owns the road". Now, with this horrible looking pointless thing they'll have the image of "Look at that prick - he could have saved thousands getting an equally shítty car if he didn't have to choose a BMW badged one!".
At least Mercedes copped on with their awful A-Class and now have a lovely one.

wrt40

mickdw wrote: »

In appearance alone, this 2 series is a disgrace to the bmw name.

LOL. This one has indicators as standard too. That's just not BMW :rolleyes:

Tea 1000

fmcg_scribe wrote: »

I suppose that Merc drivers said the same when the Smart car, the A class, and the B class were launched.

The Mini, Rolls Royce, and the X5 were big departures for the BMW brand but they paid off and made the company more sustainable and profitable. The new i sub brand is yet another new departure. Jury is out about X6, 5 series GT, and some of the plans for the 1 and 2 series ranges.

Ya but no matter how many X5's BMW sell, or how much profit they make, nothing will change the fact that they're terrible looking yokes.
That 2 series thing is the product of an Accountant. And therefore a terrible thing.

wrt40

Tea 1000 wrote: »

Before they had the image of "Look at that prick in his BMW thinking he owns the road". Now, with this horrible looking pointless thing they'll have the image of "Look at that prick - he could have saved thousands getting an equally shítty car if he didn't have to choose a BMW badged one!".
At least Mercedes copped on with their awful A-Class and now have a lovely one.

But it's not about the badge, that's the whole point. This car is not all about "owning a BMW". If it was about the badge and the rear wheel drive and whatever other vaguely predefined definition of what a BMW is, then you wouldn't be buying this car. I have never, ever even been slightly interested in owning a BMW for the very reason of the type of people that typically drive them and what the badge means.

I'll tell you what has me interested in this car, and I haven't test driven it yet so it all depends on how I like the drive. but what has me initially interested enough to want to take a test drive is it's spacious luxury fitted cabin, practicality over a hatch or small saloon (I'm aware there are more practical cars out there but they also lack in areas which are more important to me and I'm not looking for a fully fledged MPV), reliability and performance (test drive pending, but I'm certainly not seeing any "sh!tty car" reviews as you put it).

Stallingrad

wrt40 wrote: »

reliability

BMW have an appalling reputation over recent years. Buy the longer warranty if you plan to hold onto it.

Zubeneschamali

wrt40 wrote: »

spacious luxury fitted cabin

Yes, this seems too be the unique selling point. You can have an MPV-like thing swathed in leather with all the toys from an executive car, a far cry from a C4 picasso with scratchy plastic bits falling out of the dash.

wrt40

Stallingrad wrote: »

BMW have an appalling reputation over recent years. Buy the longer warranty if you plan to hold onto it.

Interesting. Reliability is probably going to be impossible to gauge because it's a new 3 cylinder petrol engine (which is what I would be considering) It's actually a mini underneath, so I'll be better off comparing it to that for reliability. Long warranty would probably be a good idea.

Stallingrad

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Yes, this seems too be the unique selling point. You can have an MPV-like thing swathed in leather with all the toys from an executive car, a far cry from a C4 picasso with scratchy plastic bits falling out of the dash.

I think the new C4 is far cry from that to be honest.

wrt40

Stallingrad wrote: »

I think the new C4 is far cry from that to be honest.

Looks photoshoped Nice, but what's the build quality like? The Picasso is a different class anyway. I'm not looking for an MPV and I don't consider the Active Tourer to be an MPV. Like I said some regions don't even have the MPV tag, it's just the "BMW 2 Series Active Tourer". It's better described as a Hatchback Plus. Like the Golf Plus (or Golf SV as they call it now).

Tea 1000

Stallingrad wrote: »

I think the new C4 is far cry from that to be honest.

This here is my point. What's the price difference between that and the BMW?

Tea 1000

wrt40 wrote: »

Looks photoshoped Nice, but what's the build quality like? The Picasso is a different class anyway. I'm not looking for an MPV and I don't consider the Active Tourer to be an MPV. Like I said some regions don't even have the MPV tag, it's just the "BMW 2 Series Active Tourer". It's better described as a Hatchback Plus. Like the Golf Plus (or Golf SV as they call it now).

They're ultimately pointless though. Sacrificing looks for a bit of headroom seems completely pointless to me. How much more comfortable is a Golf Plus over a Golf? Probably none.

wrt40

Tea 1000 wrote: »

They're ultimately pointless though. Sacrificing looks for a bit of headroom seems completely pointless to me. How much more comfortable is a Golf Plus over a Golf? Probably none.

They're not pointless. Not for me. My choice is a small saloon or a big hatchback. A full saloon is too big for my needs and therefore an extra expense I can't justify. I used to own a ford focus hatchback and we had to put some of the shopping in the back seat because there wasn't enough room in the boot with buggy et al. Small saloon is a good option with the extra boot space and I can get the luxury I want in the likes of the A3, but it's lacking in practicality. I'm picturing granny squashed in the middle between two car seats with her neck bent down from the low roof.

Maybe you're right, there is an element of this being a BMW for people who cannot afford a proper BMW. Would I buy a 3 series if I could afford it? Well probably not because I wouldn't get up the hill and out to work on an icy winter morning, but other than that a 3 series would probably suit a small family. There's definitely a big gap in their range waiting to be filled. Most reviews are calling this the start of what's to come for BMW, with the FWD and engines expected to make appearances in newer models to come. These are Mini engines, they're hardly ****ty in fairness.

I also think it looks good. Bit of a van to it but there is actually a bit of a van to it so what do you expect.

Tea 1000

wrt40 wrote: »

They're not pointless. Not for me. My choice is a small saloon or a big hatchback. A full saloon is too big for my needs and therefore an extra expense I can't justify. I used to own a ford focus hatchback and we had to put some of the shopping in the back seat because there wasn't enough room in the boot with buggy et al. Small saloon is a good option with the extra boot space and I can get the luxury I want in the likes of the A3, but it's lacking in practicality. I'm picturing granny squashed in the middle between two car seats with her neck bent down from the low roof.

Maybe you're right, there is an element of this being a BMW for people who cannot afford a proper BMW. Would I buy a 3 series if I could afford it? Well probably not because I wouldn't get up the hill and out to work on an icy winter morning, but other than that a 3 series would probably suit a small family. There's definitely a big gap in their range waiting to be filled. Most reviews are calling this the start of what's to come for BMW, with the FWD and engines expected to make appearances in newer models to come. These are Mini engines, they're hardly ****ty in fairness.

I also think it looks good. Bit of a van to it but there is actually a bit of a van to it so what do you expect.

The reason to buy a 3-Series is to get a car that's dynamically more capable with nicer engines than the competition or the cars from the class below it. Many people don't choose that reason, but that's the real reason for them to exist.
This new 2 series thingy with it's small engine and FWD means it's just an expensive alternative to a Qashqai. Why not just buy the cheaper and more reliable Nissan? No space compromises!

fmcg_scribe

Tea 1000 wrote: »

Ya but no matter how many X5's BMW sell, or how much profit they make, nothing will change the fact that they're terrible looking yokes.
That 2 series thing is the product of an Accountant. And therefore a terrible thing.

You're entitled to your opinion about the X5.

However, the case for building the E53 X5 was driven by market research (not by accountants) - back during the 1990s, BMW concluded that younger buyers were becoming interested in vehicles that fitted with their lifestyles (or at least the lifestyles they aspired to have).

Up to 1999/2000, the Range Rover was in a segment all of its own but the X5 redefined that segment even though it didn't have the all-round 4x4 capability of the Range Rover.

BMW stole a march on its rivals.

These days, almost all of the volume luxury car makers are building SUVs or thinking about it. This is because the recent international recession proved that high end luxury SUVs are more recession proof than sports cars and large luxury saloons.

ofcork

Mercedes were onto the lifestyle suv 3 years before bmw with the ML launched in 1997.

JC01

wrt40 wrote: »

But it's not about the badge, that's the whole point. This car is not all about "owning a BMW". If it was about the badge and the rear wheel drive and whatever other vaguely predefined definition of what a BMW is, then you wouldn't be buying this car. I have never, ever even been slightly interested in owning a BMW for the very reason of the type of people that typically drive them and what the badge means.

I'll tell you what has me interested in this car, and I haven't test driven it yet so it all depends on how I like the drive. but what has me initially interested enough to want to take a test drive is it's spacious luxury fitted cabin, practicality over a hatch or small saloon (I'm aware there are more practical cars out there but they also lack in areas which are more important to me and I'm not looking for a fully fledged MPV), reliability and performance (test drive pending, but I'm certainly not seeing any "sh!tty car" reviews as you put it).

As a BMW-nut it pains me to even look at this abomination of a yoke but as their accountants have already discovered its people like you who will buy these things. And you can kid yourself all you want you will buy it so you can have a shiny new BMW sitting on your drive.

It will not be reliable.
It will not have ANY kind of performance
It will not be allowed to be luxurious enough that it could start eating into sales of Beemers other products.
It can't be any more practical than a top of the range E91 which would cost you half the price.

And if you can't get a RWD up a hill ina bit of snow then I'm sorry but you can't drive.