Lamping near Croom Co. Limerick

knipex

To those out lamping near Coom the last couple of nights.

I hope you had a great time.

You were shooting on land where you had no permission from the owner.

You were shooting near houses with young children where you woke them up.

You were shooting on land with horses.

You were shooting very near 2 public roads.

You have pissed off everyone in the area and ensured that those of us who did have permission to shoot in the area will no longer have same.

You have damaged the reputation of all shooters.

And last but not least you peppered at least one back garden with pellets..

You are a disgrace to the sport, you should not have licences and you have no consideration for land owners, residents, laws or safety.

Absolute morons and if I or anyone from the area or any of the very few who had permission to shoot on the land finds out who you are you will be reported..

deerhunter1

That is disgrace, I hope you find out who they are and sort them,any idea or inkling who they are or where they are from, did ye get reg numbers. Someone must know who they are

charlie10

with pellets ??? hardly a shotgun ????

deerhunter1

charlie10 wrote: »

with pellets ??? hardly a shotgun ????

What the jaysus do you think is in a shotgun catridge cotton balls:D

charlie10

hardly lamping with shotgun i what i meant

Dian Cecht

charlie10 wrote: »

hardly lamping with shotgun i what i meant

Of course not :rolleyes: why would you do that? I've shot more foxes with a shotgun than you've had hot dinners I reckon

deerhunter1

charlie10 wrote: »

hardly lamping with shotgun i what i meant

why not with a shotgun??????

charlie10

beside two public roads and horses there too ! it would take a limerick man alright:rolleyes:

deerhunter1

charlie10 wrote: »

beside two public roads and horses there too ! it would take a limerick man alright:rolleyes:

nothing here say there from Limerick

charlie10

deerhunter1 wrote: »

nothing here say there from Limerick

thats Limerick city !!!!!!

deerhunter1

charlie10 wrote: »

thats Limerick city !!!!!!

No

charlie10

deerhunter1 wrote: »

nothing here say there from Limerick

thats Limerick city !!!!!!

charlie10

charlie10 wrote: »

thats Limerick city !!!!!!

rubber bandits no ...i give up

deerhunter1

charlie10 wrote: »

thats Limerick city !!!!!!

It is as near the cork border as it is Limerick City

spyderski

Given where else it's reasonably near, perhaps it was some of the cousins home for the Christmas holidays?

deerhunter1

:

spyderski wrote: »

Given where else it's reasonably near, perhaps it was some of the cousins home for the Christmas holidays?

:eek::rolleyes:

knipex

deerhunter1 wrote: »

That is disgrace, I hope you find out who they are and sort them,any idea or inkling who they are or where they are from, did ye get reg numbers. Someone must know who they are

I got a call from a landowner at 1am asking me wtf I was doing shooting at that hour of the night. (I am the only one who has permission to shoot).

I explained I was in bed and advised he call the garda station and report them. Went for a look but they were gone. Got another call yesterday and was told about the pellets.

I have been asked not to shoot on the land anymore. He was quick to explain that it was nothing I had done but when I was seen on the land it just brought in others..

Best of my permissions, lots of rabbits, great access, open spaces and it's gone...

EP90

Yer can’t legislate for muppets.
Maybe when the owner cools down a bit you could approach him again. Maybe suggest you ring/text him each time you plan to shoot and outside those times he should report any other trespass or shooting. Explain illegal shooting does happen regardless of whether other people have permission. Often having someone with permission is a deterrent for illegal shooters. A Christmas bottle may compensate for his troubles.

Snakezilla

knipex wrote: »

I have been asked not to shoot on the land anymore. He was quick to explain that it was nothing I had done but when I was seen on the land it just brought in others..

Unfortunately that happens everywhere ! It actually happened myself this year. I had permission off a very sticky farmer and in return I did some mechanical work. Lads saw me shooting the land at the start of the season, the very next day , I kid you not ...they were on the ground shooting everything in sight ! Safe to say that was my permission gone !

tac foley

I'm not sure I understand this - surely the permission is made out to you, as a named person to both the landowner and the local Garda station? And to nobody else. How can somebody who is not authorised go on to a landowner's land without permission and shoot? Surely they are trespassing - and with a firearm?

Deeeeeeeeeep doo-doo, surely?

tac

Jerrystevens

this is ireland Tac where the' ah sure it'll be alright ' mentality reigns supreme lads think that they can walk and shoot where they like until told other wise then even if challenged ,act as if they are the ones who are being wronged !! and god help you if you sound anything other than local then it's your fault what has happened in ireland for the last 800 years and your only a blow in so have no rights :mad:
Only the other week i had to go down the farm as some eejits were shooting at dusk on land they had no permission on , in a field containing three mares all of which were galloping mad , the next door farmers daughter had her two mares out too she lost the plot they did allow lads in sometimes if they asked ,but that has now ended .
needless to say there are now no shooting signs up on our gates and theirs now
lets see does it work , i doubt it

tac foley

Thanks for that. Things sure are different over there aren't they?

tac in yUK

deerhunter1

tac foley wrote: »

I'm not sure I understand this - surely the permission is made out to you, as a named person to both the landowner and the local Garda station? And to nobody else. How can somebody who is not authorised go on to a landowner 's land without permission and shoot? Surely they are trespassing - and with a firearm?

Deeeeeeeeeep doo-doo, surely?

tac

welcome to the lackadaisical laws in this country where the genuine hunter/shooter gets screwed,you are correct but having it enforced is another thing

One shot on kill

As far as I know isn't a charge able offense. The only hope is that they would have there firearms taking away because they were outside the reason of why they obtained there license in the first place.

Maybe things could be used against them to be fair. But noting can be done unless there caught. Unfortunately.

EP90

Well I guess you could start with trespass and add to it …. if they were to be caught and proved
13.—(1) It shall be an offence for a person, without reasonable excuse, to trespass on any building or the curtilage thereof in such a manner as causes or is likely to cause fear in another person.

deerhunter1

EP90 wrote: »

Well I guess you could start with trespass and add to it …. if they were to be caught and proved
13.—(1) It shall be an offence for a person, without reasonable excuse, to trespass on any building or the curtilage thereof in such a manner as causes or is likely to cause fear in another person.

Only the landowner can prosecute,and the penalty for trespass is very little,not worh the hassle and the legal cost to landowner

One shot on kill

EP90 wrote: »

Well I guess you could start with trespass and add to it …. if they were to be caught and proved
13.—(1) It shall be an offence for a person, without reasonable excuse, to trespass on any building or the curtilage thereof in such a manner as causes or is likely to cause fear in another person.

Ok so it shall be an offence that's grand which offence criminal or civil. If its civil the guards won't prosicute. It only becomes criminal when an action taken place while trespassing is deemed as a criminal offence.

So its from your post I take trespass isn't an offence on less you put fear in another person. So causeing fear is the offence not actually trespassing.

homerhop

Section 44 of the wildlife act
Unlawful hunting or entry on land and other miscellaneous matters

44.—(1) Any person who not being the owner or occupier of land—


(a) with a firearm or with a device, instrument or missile mentioned in section 72 (7) of this Act hunts a wild bird or wild animal on the land or moves or drives such a bird or such an animal off the land in order so to hunt it,


(b) enters on the land for the purpose of so hunting wild birds or wild animals,


(c) carries on the land any firearm, net, or other weapon, instrument or device capable of being used for hunting a wild bird or a wild animal, or


(d) shoots over or into the land,


without the permission either of the person who is the owner or the occupier of the land or, in case some other person is entitled to enjoy sporting rights over the land, that other person, shall be guilty of an offence.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1976/en/act/pub/0039/sec0044.html#sec44

Vegeta

One shot on kill wrote: »

Ok so it shall be an offence that's grand which offence criminal or civil. If its civil the guards won't prosicute. It only becomes criminal when an action taken place while trespassing is deemed as a criminal offence.

So its from your post I take trespass isn't an offence on less you put fear in another person. So causeing fear is the offence not actually trespassing.

I think it became a criminal offence in the last few years but I'm not certain. I've heard it being mentioned in discussion of the Lissadell estate case but have not read the legislation myself. I'm on a tablet at the minute so can't look it up without a lot of hassle. Will look for it in the next few days and come back if no one else posts it.

pedroeibar1

Vegeta wrote: »

I think it became a criminal offence in the last few years but I'm not certain. I've heard it being mentioned in discussion of the Lissadell estate case but have not read the legislation myself. I'm on a tablet at the minute so can't look it up without a lot of hassle. Will look for it in the next few days and come back if no one else posts it.

TBH I cannot see how the Lissadell case could be relevant. Trespass was mentioned in it, (with I think a passing reference to entry onto the lands for poaching, cutting trees, etc) but where it was mentioned it was linked to passing on the claimed rights of way rather than anything else. Trespass is quite complicated, it primarily is a civil matter but it can become criminal if it changes to aggravated trespass (trespass with the intention of committing an offence.) Simple trespass is not worth pursuing unless you have a problem with a repeat offender.

If you wanted to push the criminal side of it and get the Gardai involved, Section 11 of the Criminal Justice (Public Order) Act, 1994 makes it an offence for anyone to enter (i.e., trespass) a building or the vicinity of a building with the intention of committing an offence and/or interfering with property. (Coming onto land to take game, Homerhop’s Section 44 of the Wildlife Act 1976). By being on the property this will be enough to bring a person within the definition of section 11. BUT it will be a matter for you in any proceedings to prove that the accused person was present on the property with the intention of committing an offence or with intent to interfere with any property. Not easy. Here

As said above by EP90 when he mentioned Section 13 of the same Act - covers causing fear.

The cowboys who entered onto the Croom lands committed several offences IMO, they trespassed – easy to prove but no big deal, they possibly were poaching (only if they were caught with game, not a fox) so hard to prove. On a criminal side they discharged firearms recklessly, if they were shooting game after sunset that is an offence, and their trespass becomes criminal. Not easy to prove.

I’ve always found country Gardai very decent – if there are any left in your area. (They’re gone from mine, and the nearest station now is 45 mins away with only one car!) Call them to say that there is a bunch of cowboys firing ‘weapons’ , pellets hitting windows, horses/cattle stampeding, and they will be out. They usually want to meet guys like that anyway,

homerhop

they dont have to be caught with an animal, its there in black and white

tomtucker81

deerhunter1 wrote: »

Only the landowner can prosecute,and the penalty for trespass is very little,not worh the hassle and the legal cost to landowner

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1994/en/act/pub/0002/sec0013.html

the particular sec 13 referred to is of the public order act, which is prosecuted by gardai. Thos section does require by its wording of the offence, an injured party, ie the landowner to make a complaint to the gardai about the trepass in order for them to initiate proceedings. The landowner would also be required in court to provide evidence but as a witness in the prosecution, not as prosecutor.
there wouldnt be any cost to the landowner if there was such a prosecution, save his time off work for court

EP90

So Knipex, I guess its down to the land owner to instigate this with the Gardai if he’s inclined. I would think you’d get some brownie points for pointing him in the right direction with the info. found here, which may help you get your permission back. The locals would appreciate it as well.
Would be nice to hear of the outcome.

pedroeibar1

EP90 wrote: »

So Knipex, I guess its down to the land owner to instigate this with the Gardai if he’s inclined.

Not quite, IMO. The landowner must also own the sporting rights to initiate a prosecution for poaching, otherwise the only option is a civil prosecution for trespass unless he can convince the Gardai to initiate a criminal prosecution (under the Wildlife and/or Firearms Acts). Also, all poaching offences must be proved, so the ‘cowboy/s’ must be caught with game or be seen to fire at game or run their dog, or have a ferret in a warren. But without strong evidence it is the witness's word against theirs, which would most likely be ‘But Judge, we wuz just takin’ a shortcut across dem fields’. You do not want to know what could happen if you lose a civil action .......

homerhop

tomtucker81 wrote: »

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1994/en/act/pub/0002/sec0013.html

the particular sec 13 referred to is of the public order act, which is prosecuted by gardai. Thos section does require by its wording of the offence, an injured party, ie the landowner to make a complaint to the gardai about the trepass in order for them to initiate proceedings. The landowner would also be required in court to provide evidence but as a witness in the prosecution, not as prosecutor.
there wouldnt be any cost to the landowner if there was such a prosecution, save his time off work for

Again under the wildlife act that I posted
(7) In any proceedings for an offence under this section it shall not be necessary for the prosecutor to prove that a defendant was on the land without lawful authority and, in case a defendant claims that he was on the land with lawful authority, the onus of proving such authority shall be on the defendant.

knipex

I spoke to the land owner a few times since and he does not want the grief of involving the garda.

He never allowed anyone to shoot on the land before but for the last 3 years it has been infested with rabbits (lots of legit fox hunting on neighbouring land kept fox population down so rabbit s took over) which were actually affecting his grass crop and they were digging holes all over the place. I knew he didn't allow and shooting on his land so never even approached him. I know him in passing for a while and he heard I had gotten a licence and had insurance, one day I bumped into him on the road and he told me I was free to shoot away as long as it was only rabbits. We agreed I would only shoot when there were no animals out, wouldn't bother the neighbours, kept it quite (ie not talk about it) didn't make it obvious (no parking the car in gateways etc), didn't leave offal around etc.. Some basic respect..

He is just fed up and annoyed, he doesn't blame me but just wants the problem to be gone. He has put a blanket ban on shooting his land and been very public about it..

We remain on good terms, it's his land so his gift to allow or not allow shooting. His decision and I respect that.. Dissapointed but I have other permissions. ..

Since I posted they have not been back but people are watching out, looking out for cars etc but there are so many ways onto the land both directly and through other land it may prove difficult.

foxpie

im a genuine lamper in croom. where in croom is this farmer based so i can avoid his land. as i would not like to cause conflict.

One shot on kill

MYbe just avoid land you don't have permission on and you should be ok.


Welcome to boards by the way.

knipex

foxpie wrote: »

im a genuine lamper in croom. where in croom is this farmer based so i can avoid his land. as i would not like to cause conflict.

As previously said.. You should avoid all land unless you have specific permission from the landowner..

You should not shoot on land with livestock...

You should also avoid shooting anywhere near houses.. Particularly after dark..

If you are shooting on any land without permission..... then you are not a "legit" lamper.. What you are doing is illegal.

foxpie

it is only common sence not to discharge a firearm near a house or livestock. i have permission to shoot a lot of land in the croom and surrounding area, over the years. i have not lamped croom in 5 weeks that is why id like to find out here which farm this happened on and if not it means i have to call every farmer i no to find out, which is going to take a lot of time. what i am doing is not illegal, i shoot where i have permission to and thats it. and anyone going out after dark with a shotgun is only asking for trouble.

charlie10

totally agree with you going out with shotgun after dark is stupid and asking for trouble ,yes your probably allowed and fellas have shot lots of foxs this way but its just madness

garv123

charlie10 wrote: »

totally agree with you going out with shotgun after dark is stupid and asking for trouble ,yes your probably allowed and fellas have shot lots of foxs this way but its just madness

People have years ago when the country side was not as built up as it is now.
Now theres so many houses around theres not as many places suitable for the noise of a shotgun in the dead of the night.

EP90

foxpie wrote: »

i have permission to shoot a lot of land in the croom and surrounding area, over the years. i have not lamped croom in 5 weeks that is why id like to find out here which farm this happened on and if not it means i have to call every farmer i no to find out, which is going to take a lot of time.

If you shoot where you have permission, where it’s safe to do so and don’t create annoyance then work away. No need for you to know which farm or farmer or to ‘bother’ every farmer you know. If your permissions want you to know about any problem they’ll soon tell you..

Dian Cecht

foxpie wrote: »

it is only common sence not to discharge a firearm near a house or livestock. i have permission to shoot a lot of land in the croom and surrounding area, over the years. i have not lamped croom in 5 weeks that is why id like to find out here which farm this happened on and if not it means i have to call every farmer i no to find out, which is going to take a lot of time. what i am doing is not illegal, i shoot where i have permission to and thats it. and anyone going out after dark with a shotgun is only asking for trouble.

charlie10 wrote: »

totally agree with you going out with shotgun after dark is stupid and asking for trouble ,yes your probably allowed and fellas have shot lots of foxs this way but its just madness

garv123 wrote: »

People have years ago when the country side was not as built up as it is now.
Now theres so many houses around theres not as many places suitable for the noise of a shotgun in the dead of the night.

Yes, much safer using high powered rifles at longer ranges :rolleyes:

foxpie

what im trying to say is, if i go out tonight lamping around that area, am i the 1 that will be blamed for this fracous that happened last week...... this is the point im trying to make...... i dont shoot at night with a shotgun and i dont go blowing up sods in peoples gardens. on the night in question where they shooting foxs or rabbits.

Vegeta

Dian Cecht wrote: »

Yes, much safer using high powered rifles at longer ranges :rolleyes:

Neither of the lads mentioned safety (a safe backstop doesn't care if it is night or day), they are talking about noise pollution but you knew this and I guess you've a personal dislike of firing rifles at night.

Dian Cecht

Vegeta wrote: »

Neither of the lads mentioned safety (a safe backstop doesn't care if it is night or day), they are talking about noise pollution but you knew this and I guess you've a personal dislike of firing rifles at night.

High powered rifles, even with moderators, make noise too

You must think I'm anti everything :P

You are making quite a lot of assumptions in such a small post

tomtucker81

High powered rifles, even with moderators, make noise too


Indeed they do make noise. Whats high powered though? I'd use a 22mag when lamping. With a mod on. Its certainly gives off a crack, but far less noise than my shotgun does.

One shot on kill

foxpie wrote: »

what im trying to say is, if i go out tonight lamping around that area, am i the 1 that will be blamed for this fracous that happened last week...... this is the point im trying to make...... i dont shoot at night with a shotgun and i dont go blowing up sods in peoples gardens. on the night in question where they shooting foxs or rabbits.

I'd take a guess and say they don't know what they were spoting as they didn't catch them.

You have to remember once your within the law and on your land you have noting to worry about and if your so genuine then the land owners won't cause you problems anyway. In actual fact they might turn to you for help before they would start accusing you of anything.

Also you have to remember your very first post on boards was asking a member where is best shooting land was. Not a good idea no matter how innocent and genuine the question was.

foxpie

i understand now that i asked where his shooting ground is, but it was not ment in the way some people think. i shoot foxs not rabbits

One shot on kill

And I'm not saying it was either lad.

Just though it should of been pointed out. Because every ones anticipation of a post is different.