Diesel or Petrol?

connacht100

Hello there,

I currently drive a 1995 Toyota Corolla 1.3 petrol xli hatchback and spend about 70 to 75 euro a week on petrol. I get about 440 miles from a full tank of petrol. Unfortunately the head gasket has gone and is not worth repairing.

Now I have thought about buying diesel but am worried about high servicing costs and all that. Am I doing enough mileage to justify buying a diesel? I have been looking at two 1.6 diesels, a 2008 peugeot 308 sdt and a 2008 ford focus style with 64000 and 78000 miles respectively. Both UK imports. Would these cars give good fuel economy?


Also I have been looking at some petrol cars. Could anyone recommend some very economical petrol cars that are the same size internally and as roomy as the corolla?

I have driven polos, clios etc but they felt very light to drive. I have been also looking at a 2008 1.4 petrol ford focus, 1.4 petrol hyundai i30 and petrol peugeot 1.4 308 as well and would be curious to know if they are hard on fuel?

Thanks in advance.

bazz26

What is your weekly/annual mileage? What type of driving is it? These will factor whether you warrant a diesel car or not.

Out of that list you posted I'd go Hyundai i30 in either petrol or diesel form.

connacht100

Spend about 70 to 75 euro a week on petrol with a 45 litre tank and get about 440 miles out of a full tank. Annual mileage would be about 15000 to 20000 miles. Do every type of driving city, town, rural, motorway etc.

b318isp

Would fixing the head gasket not be cheaper than changing cars, assuming there is nothing much else wrong with it?

djimi

b318isp wrote: »

Would fixing the head gasket not be cheaper than changing cars, assuming there is nothing much else wrong with it?

Hard to justify spending that kind of money on a car that is worth so little in fairness. If the money is there to be spent Id be looking to spend it on a newer car.

b318isp

djimi wrote: »

Hard to justify spending that kind of money on a car that is worth so little in fairness. If the money is there to be spent Id be looking to spend it on a newer car.

I rarely understand this argument, all things being equal. The value of the current car is inconsequential - is it not the pending expenditure (i.e. money out of your pocket) that should be considered? In other words (or numbers!):

Old Corolla (value of €500) + say €800 repair (assuming no warped head, etc.) = Total bill of €800.
v
2008 car value say €8000, less trade in of an old Corolla with failed head gasket €200 = Total bill of €7800.

Simples.

Of course, this assumes the OP wants to keep an 18yo car!

Idbatterim

the 1.4 focus are useless!

djimi

b318isp wrote: »

I rarely understand this argument, all things being equal. The value of the current car is inconsequential - is it not the pending expenditure (i.e. money out of your pocket) that should be considered? In other words (or numbers!):

Old Corolla (value of €1000) + say €800 repair (assuming no warped head, etc.) = Total bill of €800.
v
2008 car value say €8000, less trade in of an old Corolla with failed head gasket €500 = Total bill of €7500.

Simples.

One option means you get to drive a 2008 car, the other leaves you in an 18 year old model. Sometimes its about more than just money.

That Corolla is worth about €750, maybe a touch more, in working order. I couldnt justify spending more than that to repair it to be honest.

b318isp

djimi wrote: »

One option means you get to drive a 2008 car, the other leaves you in an 18 year old model. Sometimes its about more than just money.

That Corolla is worth about €750, maybe a touch more, in working order. I couldnt justify spending more than that to repair it to be honest.

True, depends on finance available and personal requirements.

The OP may just want to be alerted to the difference in cost as it is significant; of course they may want to see this as an opportunity to upgrade.

djimi

b318isp wrote: »

True, depends on finance available and personal requirements.

The OP may just want to be alerted to the difference in cost as it is significant; of course they may want to see this as an opportunity to upgrade.

Ordinarily Id agree and by the first to jump all over someone who is looking to spend thousands to change to car for the sole reason of saving a couple of hundred quid a year on tax or something like that (and there are plenty of them out there with this mindset!).

In this case though I just feel that a 95 Corolla probably isnt worth any kind of significant investment at this stage, and certainly not to the tune of a head gasket repair.

BorneTobyWilde

Why not just buy a golf sdi 1998-2002 with a long nct

discombobulate

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Why not just buy a golf sdi 1998-2002 with a long nct

No 2002 car is going to have a long NCT? It's only a year for anything over 10 years no?

connacht100

connacht100 wrote: »

Also I have been looking at some petrol cars. Could anyone recommend some very economical petrol cars that are the same size internally and as roomy as the corolla?

I have driven polos, clios etc but they felt very light to drive. I have been also looking at a 2008 1.4 petrol ford focus, 1.4 petrol hyundai i30 and petrol peugeot 1.4 308 as well and would be curious to know if they are hard on fuel?

Thanks in advance.

A prius if driven correctly will give you 60-64 mpg, worst case 55 mpg, 55 as driven like my partner with no care about any hybrid driving tips.

The Prius has a good bit more poke than a 1.4 even though it's a 1.5 the motor gives it a good bit extra shove.

The Prius is one of the most reliable cars in the world.

Little maintenance no timing belts, gearbox 1 speed and very simple. No alternator. 1 belt to drive the water pump.

The MK III Prius has 0 belts and the gearbox is even simpler.

The prius is a decent size car.

The Peugeot 308 1.6 (ford) is not a great diesel, it's rough and the gearbox is poorly geared. And the Prius is more economical. Well according to my sisters anyway.

Prius MK II on LPG @73 C/L = about 84 mpg diesel equivalent.

dr.fuzzenstein

If the car is knackered anyway, would you consider doing the head gasket yourself? It's really a lot easier than it sounds and all you need is the gasket, a torque wrench and the correct figures and order of tightening the bolts.
You have nothing to lose and a head gasket does not cost the earth.

Interslice

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

If the car is knackered anyway, would you consider doing the head gasket yourself? It's really a lot easier than it sounds and all you need is the gasket, a torque wrench and the correct figures and order of tightening the bolts.
You have nothing to lose and a head gasket does not cost the earth.

A bit more to it than that doc. You make it sound like sticking on a spare wheel .

BorneTobyWilde

discombobulate wrote: »

No 2002 car is going to have a long NCT? It's only a year for anything over 10 years no?

I mean long as in almost a full nct, 9 months left at least.
I think the basic golf sdi is reliable? and would do 70 mpg if you really wanted to drive like a hyper milers to save fuel. I do lol

Vivienne23

My dad just bought a Prius , its a fine car, newer diesels especially the 1.6 tdci are balls of scrap, turbos go, dpf filters going , a constant repair bill, he was looking at mondeos, BMW 320d, but ended on the Prius for fuel economy comfort and resale value ,and reliability. too many diesel cars around here parked up with engines gone to take the money risk

Also he was raving the other day when he came home from the local village at 100mpg but he is into that kinda thing

dr.fuzzenstein

Interslice wrote: »

A bit more to it than that doc. You make it sound like sticking on a spare wheel .

Ok, maybe a bit, but it's doable and I'd say the OP's car isn't worth anything in its present condition. Nothing much to lose and good experience if the op is into car servicing. At best he gets it sorted for little money and can trade it in for a lot more, at worst he wrecks it and it will be slightly more worthless than it is now.

Stheno

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Ok, maybe a bit, but it's doable and I'd say the OP's car isn't worth anything in its present condition. Nothing much to lose and good experience if the op is into car servicing. At best he gets it sorted for little money and can trade it in for a lot more, at worst he wrecks it and it will be slightly more worthless than it is now.

Would the new gasket not need to be skimmed by a professional to fit with the engine? Or have I lost the plot?

dr.fuzzenstein

Stheno wrote: »

Would the new gasket not need to be skimmed by a professional to fit with the engine? Or have I lost the plot?

I think that would apply if the engine overheated and the head warped,but I could be wrong.

Jesus.

b318isp wrote: »

Would fixing the head gasket not be cheaper than changing cars, assuming there is nothing much else wrong with it?

Never throw more money into a car than its worth. Its an old saying in the motor world and personally I think it holds true.

dr.fuzzenstein

Jesus. wrote: »

Never throw more money into a car than its worth. Its an old saying in the motor world and personally I think it holds true.

That would definitely apply to bringing the car into the shop and having it fixed.
The DIY approach would be worth a try in this case. Of course we don't know if the OP is game for this.

Stheno

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

That would definitely apply to bringing the car into the shop and having it fixed.
The DIY approach would be worth a try in this case. Of course we don't know if the OP is game for this.

But you also don't know why the gasket failed, if it needs skimming etc?

Cleveland Hot Pocket

Deleted User wrote: »

Prius MK II on LPG @73 C/L = about 84 mpg diesel equivalent.

Yeah but one would have to ask who, apart from accountants would lpg a prius!

Cleveland Hot Pocket

Cleveland Hot Pocket wrote: »

Yeah but one would have to ask who, apart from accountants would lpg a prius!

Why not ? one of the cheapest cars on the road after conversion. And one of the most reliable in the world.

Cleveland Hot Pocket

Deleted User wrote: »

Why not ? one of the cheapest cars on the road after conversion. And one of the most reliable in the world.

Putting aside the soullessness, in an lpg'd prius, you have the EV system, the ICE system and now you add to the mix an LPG system? That is three different power systems in the one car. You are asking for trouble with one somewhere.

Cleveland Hot Pocket

Cleveland Hot Pocket wrote: »

Putting aside the soullessness, in an lpg'd prius, you have the EV system, the ICE system and now you add to the mix an LPG system? That is three different power systems in the one car. You are asking for trouble with one somewhere.

No the prius seems to be holding up very well to conversion.

Red Kev

OP: Your biggest single cost there is not going to be the difference in fuel prices, tax, NCT or otherwise, it'll be depreciation.

If you want to save money then look at a 10-12 year old sub €2000 car that has an old style diesel engine which needs a bit less maintenance than newer more highly strung ones.


something like the car posted here is what you should be looking out for, economical, reliable engine and a model that's sought after so you can sell it easily enough. this one has 12 months NCT so hopefully no worries till then, and it's tag of €1500 means you'll be profitting on two points:

1. Your depreciation over 12, 24 or 36 months will be a lot less per annum than an '08 car.
2. You'll be spending €6-7000 less than an '08, so that's eithe money that you have in the bank and will be earning interest on, or it's less money you'll have to borrow and pay interest on if you're looking for a loan tto buy the car.

Have a look at the "Bangernomics" thread on this forum and over a few days you'll get the jist of what you can get for below €2000.


http://cars.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/2001-vw-passat-estate-130bhp-6-speed/6085560

cabb8ge

Stheno wrote: »

Would the new gasket not need to be skimmed by a professional to fit with the engine? Or have I lost the plot?

It the head from engine that is skimmed, not the new gasket.

Faz6r

i recommend the searchbar by google, its very roomy with multiple servers, very economical if you dont mind a few ads, plus it will bring you where ever you need to go webwise

Cleveland Hot Pocket

Deleted User wrote: »

No the prius seems to be holding up very well to conversion.

Ok, but there is a lot of expense in maintaining what is (for all intents and purposes) a tri-fuel system. Plus the initial outlay.
I reckon that passat is a much better option than a prius and LPG conversion. Miles cheaper to buy, 6 speed so more economical than the (already economical) TDI vag engines from the early '00s. Also a passat is a much nicer place to be (imo of course) than a prius.

Plus, above all, you don't have to be seen in a prius

shedweller

Cleveland Hot Pocket wrote: »

Ok, but there is a lot of expense in maintaining what is (for all intents and purposes) a tri-fuel system. Plus the initial outlay.
I reckon that passat is a much better option than a prius and LPG conversion. Miles cheaper to buy, 6 speed so more economical than the (already economical) TDI vag engines from the early '00s. Also a passat is a much nicer place to be (imo of course) than a prius.

Plus, above all, you don't have to be seen in a prius

Tri? I thought lpg conversions got rid of the petrol altogether?

enviro

shedweller wrote: »

Tri? I thought lpg conversions got rid of the petrol altogether?

Starts on petrol and then switches over to lpg.

Cleveland Hot Pocket

shedweller wrote: »

Tri? I thought lpg conversions got rid of the petrol altogether?

As said below.

enviro wrote: »

Starts on petrol and then switches over to lpg.

Yeah, so there are still 3 power sources on the car. If that isn't un-needed complication and asking for trouble I don't know what is.

Cleveland Hot Pocket

Cleveland Hot Pocket wrote: »

As said below.


Yeah, so there are still 3 power sources on the car. If that isn't un-needed complication and asking for trouble I don't know what is.

No, you mean there is one extra energy source added, i.e the gas !

It's not any different than adding gas to any other car except the kit needs to be suitable for start stop engines such as the prius, only difference is the prius engine is off a lot more and so needs to be assured to start on gas which the proper kits do.

Cleveland Hot Pocket

Deleted User wrote: »

No, you mean there is one extra energy source added, i.e the gas !

It's not any different than adding gas to any other car except the kit needs to be suitable for start stop engines such as the prius, only difference is the prius engine is off a lot more and so needs to be assured to start on gas which the proper kits do.

Hmm.


Anyway, you are adding in an extra fuel system, so instead of 1 to 2 systems like most cars, you go from 2 to 3.

Cleveland Hot Pocket

Cleveland Hot Pocket wrote: »

Hmm.


Anyway, you are adding in an extra fuel system, so instead of 1 to 2 systems like most cars, you go from 2 to 3.

where are you getting 3 from ?

Cleveland Hot Pocket

Deleted User wrote: »

where are you getting 3 from ?

Electric/battery, ICE, and now the LPG.

Cleveland Hot Pocket

Cleveland Hot Pocket wrote: »

Electric/battery, ICE, and now the LPG.

if you were to go by that you'd actually have 4. you forgot the petrol.

Anyway, the prius is one of the most reliable cars in the world and it's hybrid system is ultra reliable, if anything was to go wrong as with any car then it would be the valves, but flashlube is available if you're worried about that.

Cleveland Hot Pocket

Deleted User wrote: »

if you were to go by that you'd actually have 4. you forgot the petrol.

Anyway, the prius is one of the most reliable cars in the world and it's hybrid system is ultra reliable, if anything was to go wrong as with any car then it would be the valves, but flashlube is available if you're worried about that.

What is ICE fuelled by :P

Cleveland Hot Pocket

Cleveland Hot Pocket wrote: »

What is ICE fuelled by :P

I was being smart.

dr.fuzzenstein

Cleveland Hot Pocket wrote: »

What is ICE fuelled by :P

ICE, ICE, baby!

Cleveland Hot Pocket

Cleveland Hot Pocket wrote: »

Ok, but there is a lot of expense in maintaining what is (for all intents and purposes) a tri-fuel system. Plus the initial outlay.
I reckon that passat is a much better option than a prius and LPG conversion. Miles cheaper to buy, 6 speed so more economical than the (already economical) TDI vag engines from the early '00s. Also a passat is a much nicer place to be (imo of course) than a prius.

Plus, above all, you don't have to be seen in a prius

Sure you can go out and buy a car for 500 Euro's- 2K if you want, and I had that generation passat, didn't like it, dour place to sit in.

Yes you have to change the fuel filter in the LPG system and afaik it's no big deal hardly major work.

Not everyone wants to buy a 13 year old car. If I was clocking up lots of miles in our 13 year old crv (nearly 14) I wouldn't have it either, i'd rather something more modern but it's fine as a run-a-bout.

Cleveland Hot Pocket

Deleted User wrote: »

Sure you can go out and buy a car for 500 Euro's- 2K if you want, and I had that generation passat, didn't like it, dour place to sit in.

Yes you have to change the fuel filter in the LPG system and afaik it's no big deal hardly major work.

Not everyone wants to buy a 13 year old car. If I was clocking up lots of miles in our 13 year old crv (nearly 14) I wouldn't have it either, i'd rather something more modern but it's fine as a run-a-bout.

But the whole point of the prius is to save money? If you are going to spend more than you need to then what is the point?

Cleveland Hot Pocket

Cleveland Hot Pocket wrote: »

But the whole point of the prius is to save money? If you are going to spend more than you need to then what is the point?

How would I be spending more than I need to ?

Cleveland Hot Pocket

Deleted User wrote: »

How would I be spending more than I need to ?

By spending more on a prius initial outlay than a cheaper older diesel that will do 80-90% of the mpg and for 8-10 cpl cheaper.

Cee-Jay-Cee

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Ok, maybe a bit, but it's doable and I'd say the OP's car isn't worth anything in its present condition.

It's doable if the OP is a mechanic or very mechanically minded. It's not a job for the DIY mechanic who does his own oil change and simple jobs lithe that. It's not something you attempt with no prior experience. I've tinkered with cars for almost 20 years and I have done my own timing belt changes, clutch changes and even changed cams but I think I'd leave a HG to someone with a little bit more know how than me.

Cleveland Hot Pocket

Cleveland Hot Pocket wrote: »

By spending more on a prius initial outlay than a cheaper older diesel that will do 80-90% of the mpg and for 8-10 cpl cheaper.

My objective was to get a newer car with a lot less than 200,000 miles, and after finding the Prius for 8K , 3 years old and 45 K miles on the clock I decided to do some research and found priuschat forum. After finding out a lot more I decided to give it a go and I'm glad I did because I went from 48 mpg average to 55 straight away and after a bit of time learning how to use the hybrid part of the car properly I managed to get 60-64 mpg average. The lack of the TDI rattle and vibration was really welcome.

I wasn't prepared to spend little money on an old car with high mileage clocking up 20K miles a year or there about.

sometimes people rather a better car and are willing to spend more, but people also want something that isn't going to cost a fortune to run either, so one will mostly find a car that is reasonably cheap to run and if I had known much at the time about lpg it would have saved us a lot of money.

We got the prius for a steal at the time, you'll hardly find a MK III for under 14K with 45-50K miles on the clock. But even at 100,000 miles the prius would be a good buy because it's so reliable and needs no major servicing.

I also have lost about 3 k on depreciation on the Prius V 14 k on the Audi, never again !

Cleveland Hot Pocket

Deleted User wrote: »

My objective was to get a newer car with a lot less than 200,000 miles, and after finding the Prius for 8K , 3 years old and 45 K miles on the clock I decided to do some research and found priuschat forum. After finding out a lot more I decided to give it a go and I'm glad I did because I went from 48 mpg average to 55 straight away and after a bit of time learning how to use the hybrid part of the car properly I managed to get 60-64 mpg average. The lack of the TDI rattle and vibration was really welcome.

I wasn't prepared to spend little money on an old car with high mileage clocking up 20K miles a year or there about.

sometimes people rather a better car and are willing to spend more, but people also want something that isn't going to cost a fortune to run either, so one will mostly find a car that is reasonably cheap to run and if I had known much at the time about lpg it would have saved us a lot of money.

We got the prius for a steal at the time, you'll hardly find a MK III for under 14K with 45-50K miles on the clock. But even at 100,000 miles the prius would be a good buy because it's so reliable and needs no major servicing.

I also have lost about 3 k on depreciation on the Prius V 14 k on the Audi, never again !

The cheap to run argument doesnt work though, when you can get similar running costs from a car that costs 20% of the prius.

Cleveland Hot Pocket

Cleveland Hot Pocket wrote: »

The cheap to run argument doesnt work though, when you can get similar running costs from a car that costs 20% of the prius.

Yes I know, but you're not getting it, if someone wants a bit better than a 12 year old passat with 160K miles then you can save more by converting it to lpg or simply by buying a more fuel efficient car.

So the cheap to run argument is very valid, not everyone wants an old high mileage car.

Not everyone wants a rattle box diesel either, and those PD tdi's were really rough.

Cleveland Hot Pocket

Deleted User wrote: »

Yes I know, but you're not getting it, if someone wants a bit better than a 12 year old passat with 160K miles then you can save more by converting it to lpg or simply by buying a more fuel efficient car.

So the cheap to run argument is very valid, not everyone wants an old high mileage car.

Not everyone wants a rattle box diesel either, and those PD tdi's were really rough.

Yes, for an initial outlay added you can drive a prius.
But for an initial outlay you can also buy a nicer car too. The prius's thing is saving money and you can't equate it to being "something better" than a high mile passat. It is a mobile frugality machine, that's what it is.