Westside roundabout traffic question

Guffy

Ok so this ejit started sticking his fingers up a gestating towards me while driving the car today. I'm just wondering from an insurance point of view who is in the wrong in this scenario. ( I broke so there was no actual collision).

Both cars approach the roundabout from the bridge. I was in the right hand lane, he was in the left. I planned to exit on the third exit, towards the topaz station. I continued proceeded through roundabout on right (inside) lane and indicated left to exit roundabout on the right lane (not taxi lane).

So this was my action throughout. Now what happened was between the hospital exit and topaz exit the car that entered on left lane indicated right and began to cut across to my lane while on roundabout. The nose of my car was around his driver seat and only saw his indicator at the last second and slammed breaks. The driver of other car started roaring at me sticking fingers up etc. Then proceeded to take topaz exit in right lane.

The way I see it is you exit the roundabout in same lane as you enter so if you enter on the left you exit on the left and then change. Taxi lane doesn't begin for a hundred yards or so.

This seems to be a major problem in Galway with people changing lanes while still on the roundabout. Have had near misses a couple of times. I'm curious as to who would be liable. Me for being the car behind and not breaking or him for changing lane on roundabout, assuming, without checking blind spot.

dastardly00

I am of course open to correction....

gufc21 wrote: »

Both cars approach the roundabout from the bridge. I was in the right hand lane, he was in the left. I planned to exit on the third exit, towards the topaz station.

The exit towards Topaz is actually at the 12 o'clock position so you should be in the left lane from your approach, not the right lane.

I continued proceeded through roundabout on right (inside) lane and indicated left to exit roundabout on the right lane (not taxi lane).

The bus lane doesn't start straight away. Both lanes are open to traffic.

Now what happened was between the hospital exit and topaz exit the car that entered on left lane indicated right and began to cut across to my lane while on roundabout.

I haven't got a clue as to why the other driver started signalling right, that was totally careless and dangerous on his part. He should have checked his blind spot, but he should have exited in the left hand lane. But in addition, you were in the wrong lane.

The driver of other car started roaring at me sticking fingers up etc.

He seems to be a bit crazy.

The way I see it is you exit the roundabout in same lane as you enter..

This seems to be a major problem in Galway with people changing lanes while still on the roundabout.

You might want to brush up on the ROTR.
Have a quick look over the ROTR book, and also check out the RSA videos on Youtube, they are probably the easiest to understand.

Then consider that same roundabout, if you were entering it from the Hospital exit, and you want to go over the bridge, you would enter it from the right hand lane (since there are two lanes), and exit it in which lane (again there are 2 lanes) .....?

Mr Keek

I always approach that exit in the same lane as the other guy, from the left lane too.....and most of the people in front and behind me do the same....before that stretch of road was rebuilt, the signs and road marking advised people to use the left lane. In not sure what the story is now. You've raised a good point, id like to here what others say. The exit into Westside does have two lanes that merge into one, before the left lane becomes a bus lane.

As its the third exit, I completely understand why you were in the right inside lane. But I would never use the right lane.

From an insurance stand point, ye were both off the roundabout at this stage, there are two lanes merging into one, so if there was a collision, I would assume the car at the rear is at fault. They drive into the car in front.

The guy sticking his fingers up at you is of the same thinking as me, but he's being a pure dick and standing his ground instead of letting the foot off the pedal and slotting in behind you. Ultimately, there aggressive diving would have caused an accident.

Guffy

dastardly00 wrote: »

I am of course open to correction....



The exit towards Topaz is actually at the 12 o'clock position so you should be in the left lane from your approach, not the right lane.

Considering it is the third exit and there are two exits onto the road, ie. taxi lane does not start immediately, I would have thought that one could enter the roundabout and exit in either lane once they exited in the same lane?

dastardly00 wrote: »

The bus lane doesn't start straight away. Both lanes are open to traffic.

I know this but I think the problem arouse because the other driver didn't and I was just making it clear as to which lane and road I was talking about.

dastardly00 wrote: »

But in addition, you were in the wrong lane.






You might want to brush up on the ROTR.

Then consider that same roundabout, if you were entering it from the Hospital exit, and you want to go over the bridge, you would enter it from the right hand lane (since there are two lanes), and exit it in which lane (again there are 2 lanes) .....?

Again considering there were two entrances and exits are you not permitted to use both? If there were only two exits (no hospital) then I would have just used inside lane but because it is the third exit (yes it is at 12) ant The right hand lane is the natural lane is this the incorrect lane? I mean is it the wrong lane to use or can you not use both. I was also talking about entering and exiting a roundabout from and on to a road with two lanes. I know you would not stay on outside to go right if exiting from hospital.


Also from an insurance standpoint who is it wrong here a) If I was actually in the wrong lane (I don't think I was though but am also open to correction) and b) If I was in the right lane. Either way he cut across without a clearway.

Guffy

Mr Keek wrote: »

I always approach that exit in the same lane as the other guy, from the left lane too.....and most of the people in front and behind me do the same....before that stretch of road was rebuilt, the signs and road marking advised people to use the left lane. In not sure what the story is now. You've raised a good point, id like to here what others say. The exit into Westside does have two lanes that merge into one, before the left lane becomes a bus lane.

As its the third exit, I completely understand why you were in the right inside lane. But I would never use the right lane.

From an insurance stand point, ye were both off the roundabout at this stage, there are two lanes merging into one, so if there was a collision, I would assume the car at the rear is at fault. They drive into the car in front.

The guy sticking his fingers up at you is of the same thinking as me, but he's being a pure dick and standing his ground instead of letting the foot off the pedal and slotting in behind you. Ultimately, there aggressive diving would have caused an accident.

Sorry if i didn't explain this right. We were both still on the roundabout. It was after the exit for the hospital before the third exit. It was around the entrance from the hospital. I know it would have been my fault if it was when the lanes merge but because it was on the roundabout I'm unsure of it.


I would have entered and exited on the left myself before road works but I think there was only one lane on exit wasn't there? Definitely open to correction on that. I end up turning right (3 o'clock) half the time these days because I have to pick young lad up so it has just become a habit to enter on right lane now.

Mr Keek

Oh, i thought ye had your near collision at the exit, i had a couple of near misses there myself.

Sounds like the other guy is at fault then, he started in what I would regard the correct lane, but as his exit approached, he wrongly change lanes/drifted into your lane.

He should have entered the exit into Westside on the left hand side and merged in after he completed his exit as per the road markings.

Regardless of who's in the correct lane, you don't cross lanes on the actual roundabout itself.

It'd be a tricky one to prove to an insurer, he could easily say you drifted into his lane. Your word vs his, it would go 50\50. Thankfully it's not going to that.

Santa is bringing me a dash cam for Christmas, to much of this crap going on in Galway.

Guffy

Mr Keek wrote: »

Oh, i thought ye had your near collision at the exit, i had a couple of near misses there myself.

Sounds like the other guy is at fault then, he started in what I would regard the correct lane, but as his exit approached, he wrongly change lanes/drifted into your lane.

He should have entered the exit into Westside on the left hand side and merged in after he completed his exit as per the road markings.

Regardless of who's in the correct lane, you don't cross lanes on the actual roundabout itself.

It'd be a tricky one to prove to an insurer, he could easily say you drifted into his lane. Your word vs his, it would go 50\50. Thankfully it's not going to that.

Santa is bringing me a dash cam for Christmas, to much of this crap going on in Galway.

So how much of a dick move would it be to say he couldn't move car until gardai came? I know its near peak traffic at half 4, but this happens to much and there would be no way I could take the financial hit on that if it did significant damage. I only ask cause its not the first time that this happened. People just don't know how to behave when on a roundabout.

Iwannahurl

1. It's an Irish roundabout.
2. It's a Galway roundabout.

Bearing in mind those two caveats, the advance signage identifies the route you were taking as 'straight on'.

That indicates the left lane, even though the exit is beyond 12 o'clock. IIRC the road markings on the exit suggest that the engineers expect traffic to be in either the left-hand or right-hand lane on exiting towards the Seamus Quirke Road. There are two lanes in from the QB side, and a very short merge section at the SQR exit.

beardybrewer

dastardly00 wrote: »

lly at the 12 o'clock position so you should be in the left lane from your approach, not the right lane.

I would opine that there are 2 lanes and therefore you can use the right lane, with caution.

The majority know to get in the left lane to go straight on which is why traffic builds up on the left. This is going to a) catch out people who find themselves stuck in the right lane or b) encourage impatient drivers to take the right lane which is usually much shorter. He should have expected the right lane may go straight on and you should have expected the left lane to block and to go around again. But there was no reason for him to be a jerk about it.

Despite the ROTR there still some junctions in Galway that abide by their own rules governed by local knowledge and expectations.

dastardly00

Iwannahurl wrote: »

1. It's an Irish roundabout.
2. It's a Galway roundabout.

Bearing in mind those two caveats, the advance signage identifies the route you were taking as 'straight on'.

That indicates the left lane, even though the exit is beyond 12 o'clock. IIRC the road markings on the exit suggest that the engineers expect traffic to be in either the left-hand or right-hand lane on exiting towards the Seamus Quirke Road. There are two lanes in from the QB side, and a very short merge section at the SQR exit.

Is it not exactly at 12 o'clock according to the sign that you linked you?

pleasant Co.

Moved from Galway City Forum

biko

It's the left lane, I think if you look at the sign as you approach from bridge it will show you what lane to use.

TristanPeter

The left lane is the correct lane. It actually really annoys me (just not as much as the guy who gave you the finger OP) when drivers take the right lane and try to cut in. I was an ADI at one point. This exit is approx. straight ahead and therefore should be approached in the left lane. If I recall correctly from the ROTR, the right lane should not be used to go straight ahead unless the signage says so or directed by a garda.

http://www.rsa.ie/RSA/Road-Safety/Education/Road-safety-tips/Using-roundabouts/

dastardly00

The terminology 'use left lane/right lane for 1st/2nd/3rd/.../16th exit' in reference to roundabouts is not used any more by the RSA or by any ADIs.

The position of the roundabout exit in reference to its position on a clock determines what lane you should take. Except when road markings instruct you differently, or if there is a blockage in one of the lanes (i.e. an accident/breakdown, not a tailback!)

dastardly00

gufc21 wrote: »

Considering it is the third exit and there are two exits onto the road, ie. taxi lane does not start immediately, I would have thought that one could enter the roundabout and exit in either lane once they exited in the same lane?

I'm basing my answer on what the tester said to me after I did my driving test. He said that you should exit into the left lane of a roundabout unless road marking direct you otherwise (or a Garda).

This is what happened in my test (see image below, sorry for dodgy arrows! I know it's not the exact same scenario as yours OP, but it should be helpful to all of us ). The red line is what I did, the blue line is what the tester said I should have done. I got a Grade 2 fault against me

biko

Red is what I'd do too.

meathstevie

Tester is absolutely right, spacious large roundabout, exit well past 12'o'clock. Start in right lane if not differently marked or instructed. Before your turn, as in between your turn and the previous one move into the left lane and exit from the left lane.

Mr Keek

The op was coming from the N6 and exiting onto the Seamus Quirke Rd, the above diagram is not where we're talking about.

kippy

Iwannahurl wrote: »

1. It's an Irish roundabout.
2. It's a Galway roundabout.

Bearing in mind those two caveats, the advance signage identifies the route you were taking as 'straight on'.

That indicates the left lane, even though the exit is beyond 12 o'clock. IIRC the road markings on the exit suggest that the engineers expect traffic to be in either the left-hand or right-hand lane on exiting towards the Seamus Quirke Road. There are two lanes in from the QB side, and a very short merge section at the SQR exit.

Technicilly, is it not the third exit and technicilly would the correct lane to be in approaching it be the right lane?
Position on a clock is pretty daft if you ask me nowadays when the exit number is far less open to "interpretation".

I generally approach that roundabout with the usual caution and awareness I do for every roundabout. Where possible I take up the right lane position and avoid coming off having to merge back into the main lane, all the time watching mirrors etc for other traffic.

dastardly00

Mr Keek wrote: »

The op was coming from the N6 and exiting onto the Seamus Quirke Rd, the above diagram is not where we're talking about.

I know. Read my post and you will see that I state that

dastardly00

kippy wrote: »

Technicilly, is it not the third exit and technicilly would the correct lane to be in approaching it be the right lane?
Position on a clock is pretty daft if you ask me nowadays when the exit number is far less open to "interpretation".

Why do you think the clock methodology is daft? It made roundabouts a lot easier to figure out when I was learning to drive.

biko

The problem with the clock is that you kinda have to know your roundabout layout from above. This because some RBs may have plant or trees covering the view.
When entering a RB you may not actually know where your exit is located on a clock face,
It makes more sense then to have a 2nd, 3rd exit terminology (that I don't like btw).

In my mind the best way is to make sure the lanes are clearly marked several time so people have time to move into the appropriate lane.
Also signs are good but in my experience people are more inclined to look at road marking than sign beside the road.

kippy

dastardly00 wrote: »

Why do you think the clock methodology is daft? It made roundabouts a lot easier to figure out when I was learning to drive.

Pretty much what Biko said. It can also be disorientating on a roundabout trying to figure out on the fly what side of the clock relative to you when you started you are now at, in that the it can be open to interpretation.
Also, analog is gone, long live digital In a few years time youngsters wont know what you are on about talking about hands on a clock....
I personally believe the exit number is an better methodology for any roundabout with more than 4 entries/exits.
Decent signage works better than letting people make their own call, and perhaps even a singal lane marking on roundabout could help also.
Ultimately though you do what you can within the rules and be as vigilant as you
can be.