Irish justice system fails again

dark crystal

Shocking story in The Independent today:

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/child-porn-king-may-go-free-as-dpp-decides-against-prosecution-29827706.html

An Irishman, whom the FBI have labelled as the "largest facilitator of child porn on the planet" will not face any charges here after the DPP have come to the baffling decision not to prosecute him, even after he indicated he would be willing to plead guilty to charges of conspiring to distribute and advertise child pornography, as well as distributing and advertising child pornography.

This, in turn, now makes it extremely difficult to extradite him to the US, where he faces a maximum term of 100 years in prison.

Can someone explain to me how on earth this guy, who owns a hosting site which is responsible for over 100 websites depicting the abuse, rape and torture of children, gets off scott free in this country?

This decision honestly defies belief.

Lapin

As I often said before.

We have one of the best legal systems in the world, but one of the worst justice systems.

D1stant

This really disappointed me when I saw it. I do not understand why he was not prosecuted here. The Indo article was terrible and didn't explain it

But as I understand he will almost definitely be extradited for a much longer sentence in the US (at their expense). Let him rot.

Manach

From other sources (and I'm admit I could be wrong here), is that the same technical system has and is being used by dissidents in totalitarian countries to avoid notice from the packet inspection tools.

Hunchback

D1stant wrote: »

This really disappointed me when I saw it. I do not understand why he was not prosecuted here. The Indo article was terrible and didn't explain it

But as I understand he will almost definitely be extradited for a much longer sentence in the US (at their expense). Let him rot.

Maybe the decision was made so as international scorn wasn't poured on the Irish legal system arising out of what may have been a comparatively paltry sentance if found guilty, compared to the potential sentance he may face in the US

ahnowbrowncow

He wasn't prosecuted here so he could be extradited to the U.S. and be charged there, I thought it was pretty obvious.

suicide_circus

Yep that was the whole point

dark crystal

Lapin wrote: »

As I often said before.

We have one of the best legal systems in the world, but one of the worst justice systems.

No justice at all.

What message does this send out? The world's largest facilitator of child porn was ready and willing to play ball, but sure, there's no need to go any further than that, let's just leave him be.

I hope the justice minister starts doing his job and looks very seriously into this case. He should be fully co-operating with the US authorities to make sure this guy gets his day in court.

washman3

Important to remember that the Irish justice system is really not a system at all, its actually a business.
Take a look at the earnings of those involved in our 'justice system' and judge for yourself.!!

Bipolar Joe

Just to make things clear, the guy owns Freedom Hosting, a free, very simple hosting site on the TOR Network. Other people decided to put child porn on it. It's like Rapidshare (Only for hosting websites). You can choose to upload a .RAR file of your holiday photos (Totally fine), or Anchorman: The Legend of Ron Burgandy (Illegal). It's not Rapidshares fault.

P_1

The FBI want him, they can't get him if he's prosecuted here. The fact that he was seemingly willing to plead guilty here presumably sounded some alarm bells in the DPP.

Kristopherus

P_1 wrote: »

The FBI want him, they can't get him if he's prosecuted here. The fact that he was seemingly willing to plead guilty here presumably sounded some alarm bells in the DPP.

+1.

Anyway why should he be tried here and get 5 years with the final 2 suspended, when he's likely to get 100 yrs in the US's worst hell-holes.

D1stant

Bipolar Joe wrote: »

Just to make things clear, the guy owns Freedom Hosting, a free, very simple hosting site on the TOR Network. Other people decided to put child porn on it. It's like Rapidshare (Only for hosting websites). You can choose to upload a .RAR file of your holiday photos (Totally fine), or Anchorman: The Legend of Ron Burgandy (Illegal). It's not Rapidshares fault.

Ah come on. Its not his fault? He knew what he was hosting. There's a world of a difference between bootlegging Hollywood releases and this depraved sh1t. He facilitated and aided it.

"Last month Mr Marques indicated in a letter to the DPP that he would plead guilty, in Ireland, to charges relating to conspiring to distribute and advertise child pornography, as well as advertising and distributing child pornography. "

dark crystal

ahnowbrowncow wrote: »

He wasn't prosecuted here so he could be extradited to the U.S. and be charged there, I thought it was pretty obvious.

That article states the decision not to prosecute here could actually be detrimental in the efforts to extradite him, due to the 1965 extradition act.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2521789/Child-porn-dealer-cited-worlds-biggest-walk-free-Ireland-drops-charges.html

Irish authorities have revealed Eric Eoin Marques will not be prosecuted under their jurisdiction and may challenge an attempt by the U.S. to get him extradited.

Last month the 28-year-old, who the FBI has accused of being the 'largest facilitator of child porn on the planet', indicated he would plead guilty to a series of charges under Irish law.

But Ireland's director of public prosecutions Claire Loftus has now said she will not bring proceedings against him in Ireland - a decision she has not explained.

It leaves the U.S. facing an uphill battle to extradite Marques because of its stiffer sentencing regime.
In Ireland, Marques, who has no criminal record, faced a maximum 14-year jail term that would have been reduced significantly by an early guilty plea.
However, in America the FBI told a court last month that he faced a total at least 100 years - four life terms in Ireland - behind bars if found guilty of the charges he is accused of.

Unlike Ireland, each of the U.S. charges carries a sentence of between 20 and 30 years and are likely to run consecutively, rather than concurrently.
Lawyers for Marques are expected to argue that U.S. sentences for similar charges are too harsh in comparison with Ireland's, and that Ireland should refuse to extradite him.

Further, under Irish law the Justice Minister has the power to refuse an extradition where the DPP has decided not to bring proceedings against a suspect

The decision not to prosecute could very well see him walk free.



I just don't understand the thinking behind Ms. Loftus' decision at all.

My name is URL

Bipolar Joe wrote: »

Just to make things clear, the guy owns Freedom Hosting, a free, very simple hosting site on the TOR Network. Other people decided to put child porn on it. It's like Rapidshare (Only for hosting websites). You can choose to upload a .RAR file of your holiday photos (Totally fine), or Anchorman: The Legend of Ron Burgandy (Illegal). It's not Rapidshares fault.

That's not quite true. Freedom Hosting was a lot more than just somewhere that people uploaded their files to. It hosted entire websites, and although it was stated on the site that no 'illegal content' was allowed, the owner failed to take any action against offenders despite him knowing that child porn existed on his servers.

Rapidshare etc will remove illegal stuff once it's brought to their attention. This guys inaction in that regard is what has landed him in trouble.

Gatling

Two ****ing words for the scum bag

Extreme rendition

I'll gladly pay for the CIA flight

Seaneh

D1stant wrote: »

Ah come on. Its not his fault? He knew what he was hosting. There's a world of a difference between bootlegging Hollwood releases and this depraved sh1t. He facilitated and aided it.

"Last month Mr Marques indicated in a letter to the DPP that he would plead guilty, in Ireland, to charges relating to conspiring to distribute and advertise child pornography, as well as advertising and distributing child pornography. "

I'd imagine the pleading guilty in Ireland was so he wouldn't be extradited as he knows that the American Criminal Justice System is a ****ing farce.

He couldn't know what was on the sites, part of the service was that he WOULDN'T look at clients files, he did however say anything reported to him would be removed and anyone who broke any laws would be banned. The service had a strict policy of not allowing anything that was illegal.

There was nothing found on his personal computers or portable drives.


If he's a facilitator of child porn then so is google, yahoo and every major content hoster in the world.


He provided a service, other people misused the service.

Rather than go after the people who actually broke the law, the FBI go for the easy win and go for the service provider.


This is no different than the **** who threaten to sue boards because a user posted something they didn't like.


If it's found that he was actually involved in distributing images and content, then he's guilty, if all he did was provide a hosting service that a small group of people abused, he's an innocent man and should free to live his life.


From what I have read about this case the only thing this man HAS done wrong is what appears to be pretty substantial tax evasion.

hungry hippo 4

lets hope he dies a horrific death.

Anyone who actually have a clue care to comment on this? Will this make extradition easier or harder?
I find it surprising though if they want to extradite him. Looking at some proceedings about people fighting extradition could the fact that he'll receive a sentence 10 times as high in another country for basically the same offence not be an effective strategy?

Montroseee

From talking to friends in the legal profession, the costs of this case will be in the tens of millions. Let America deal with it.

Amirani

dark crystal wrote: »

I hope the justice minister starts doing his job and looks very seriously into this case. He should be fully co-operating with the US authorities to make sure this guy gets his day in court.

That's for an Irish court to decide, not the Minister for Justice and Equality.

dark crystal

Seaneh wrote: »

I'd imagine the pleading guilty in Ireland was so he wouldn't be extradited as he knows that the American Criminal Justice System is a ****ing farce.

He couldn't know what was on the sites, part of the service was that he WOULDN'T look at clients files, he did however say anything reported to him would be removed and anyone who broke any laws would be banned. The service had a strict policy of not allowing anything that was illegal.

There was nothing found on his personal computers or portable drives.


If he's a facilitator of child porn then so is google, yahoo and every major content hoster in the world.


He provided a service, other people misused the service.

Rather than go after the people who actually broke the law, the FBI go for the easy win and go for the service provider.


This is no different than the **** who threaten to sue boards because a user posted something they didn't like.


If it's found that he was actually involved in distributing images and content, then he's guilty, if all he did was provide a hosting service that a small group of people abused, he's an innocent man and should free to live his life.


From what I have read about this case the only thing this man HAS done wrong is what appears to be pretty substantial tax evasion.

A small group? We're talking over 100 websites depicting this stuff!

See no evil, hear no evil? I think not.

Bipolar Joe

My name is URL wrote: »

That's not quite true. Freedom Hosting was a lot more than just somewhere that people uploaded their files to. It hosted entire websites, and although it was stated on the site that no 'illegal content' was allowed, the owner failed to take any action against offenders despite him knowing that child porn existed on his servers.

Rapidshare etc will remove illegal stuff once it's brought to their attention. This guys inaction in that regard is what has landed him in trouble.

Freedom Hosting is huge, and sites on the network are impossible to find unless you have amazing luck, or a list. If you know the site address, you've been looking for it. If you're looking for it, you're not gonna report it. FH is one dude, not a large operation like RS, who have staff to clean up the public's mess. Let's all hold off the "Fuckin' nonces, rabble rabble, burn his balls, rabble rabble" pitchfork bullshit until it comes out that he facilitated beyond having open servers, just like Angelfire did back in the day.

Seaneh

NiallSparky wrote: »

That's for an Irish court to decide, not the Minister for Justice and Equality.

Indeed.

Reactionary nonsense suggesting that we ignore the reason why we have a separation between the government and the judiciary.

My name is URL

Deleted User wrote: »

Anyone who actually have a clue care to comment on this? Will this make extradition easier or harder?
I find it surprising though if they want to extradite him. Looking at some proceedings about people fighting extradition could the fact that he'll receive a sentence 10 times as high in another country for basically the same offence not be an effective strategy?

He shouldn't really be extradited at all. He's an Irish citizen who was resident here when he committed the alleged offences. It'll actually set a very dangerous precedent should he be extradited.

Bipolar Joe

His bank account was in Las Vegas, so that might have something to do with the extradition (Dunno that stuff, just riffing).

dark crystal

My name is URL wrote: »

He shouldn't really be extradited at all. He's an Irish citizen who was resident here when he committed the alleged offences. It'll actually set a very dangerous precedent should he be extradited.

He has both Irish and US citizenship and is wanted in Maryland.

Seaneh

dark crystal wrote: »

A small group? We're talking over 100 websites depicting this stuff!

See no evil, hear no evil? I think not.

100 websites from a service that hosts hundreds of times that many. As a proportion of his services users, they were a small group. As a proportion of people who use tor they are an even smaller group and as a proportion of the people who use the net in it's entirety it's beyond minuscule.

Going after this guy solves NOTHING, the people who are actually guilty are still out there harming children and just using another service.

Shut his service down, yeah, sure, he deserves that.

Put him in a federal jail in the US for the rest of his life?

**** off, it achieves nothing beyond using someone as a scapegoat in a PR campaign.

D1stant

Seaneh wrote: »

If it's found that he was actually involved in distributing images and content, then he's guilty, if all he did was provide a hosting service that a small group of people abused, he's an innocent man and should free to live his life.

If he is innocent why did he indicate he would plead guilty to child pornography advertising & distribution? Why would he not fight the case in Ireland?

I just don't find it credible that he didn't know there were 100 child-porn sites on his servers

Seaneh

dark crystal wrote: »

He has both Irish and US citizenship and is wanted in Maryland.

He was resident in Ireland when the crimes he was alleged to have committed happened. If they happened, they happened in Ireland, not America.

He is an Irish citizen, he should be protected by the Irish government and if he has a case to answer, tried by the Irish justice system.



When they send Seanie Fitz back so he can tried for his crimes, then they can talk about extraditing people.

drunkmonkey

The Silk Road is back up, all the kiddy porn is still there just in a different place.

Get the onion browser online or in the App Store and you'll see why his arrest has done feck all.

What I want to know is he into kiddy porn personally, if he's not well then he should be given a medal for protecting our freedom a little while longer.
You can't facilitate freedom and choose what should be free. He's not God.

Seaneh

D1stant wrote: »

If he is innocent why did he indicate he would plead guilty to child pornography advertising & distribution? Why would he not fight the case in Ireland?

Because if I had the choice of being tried in Ireland, pleading guilty and doing a few years in jails vs being tried in the US and being found guilty and spending the rest of my life in a federal prison, I'd plead guilty too.

IF tried here he could appeal in future, if tried in the US, he is ****ed.

dark crystal

Seaneh wrote: »

Indeed.

Reactionary nonsense suggesting that we ignore the reason why we have a separation between the government and the judiciary.

Reactionary nonsense?

It's the minister who has the power to decide whether or not to refuse an extradition under section 17 of the extradition act, where the DPP have decided not to bring proceedings against a suspect. Nothing reactionary about it.

Seaneh

The court system ultimately decides if somebody is extradited, and rightfully so.

The minister decides if the request is worth sending to the court, nothing more.

Thank f*ck.

Amirani

dark crystal wrote: »

Reactionary nonsense?

It's the minister who has the power to decide whether or not to refuse an extradition under section 17 of the extradition act, where the DPP have decided not to bring proceedings against a suspect. Nothing reactionary about it.

I think you're misinterpreting. It gives the minister power to refuse a request on certain grounds, it doesn't give him power to grant a request.

D1stant

Seaneh wrote: »

Because if I had the choice of being tried in Ireland, pleading guilty and doing a few years in jails vs being tried in the US and being found guilty and spending the rest of my life in a federal prison, I'd plead guilty too.

IF tried here he could appeal in future, if tried in the US, he is ****ed.

That's nonsensical. You said he was innocent. If he is innocent then why plead guilty in Ireland? If he is found guilty he gets 14 years max. If innocent he is free and thats that.

Seaneh

D1stant wrote: »

That's nonsensical. You said he was innocent. If he is innocent then why plead guilty in Ireland? If he is found guilty he gets 14 years max. If innocent he is free and thats that.

BECAUSE ITS BETTER TO DO THE TIME HERE THAN IN THE US.

He was probably advised by his solicitors that is he isn't tried in Ireland he WILL be extradited and once he's extradited, he's ****ed.

The US Justice system is a farce, it's one of the most ridiculous systems on the planet. There is a reason that America has less that 5% of the population of the planet but still houses 25% of the earth's prison population. More than China, Russia and India combined. In the US it's not about who's guilty or innocent, it's all just pantomime.

Amirani

D1stant wrote: »

That's nonsensical. You said he was innocent. If he is innocent then why plead guilty in Ireland? If he is found guilty he gets 14 years max. If innocent he is free and thats that.

The article mentions that he was willing to plead guilty on "several counts", not "all counts" which is obviously crucial. Surely you'll agree there's a difference between playing a passive role and an active role in facilitating illegal content online?

D1stant

NiallSparky wrote: »

The article mentions that he was willing to plead guilty on "several counts", not "all counts" which is obviously crucial. Surely you'll agree there's a difference between playing a passive role and an active role in facilitating illegal content online?

I do agree. But I do not understand why he would plead guilty if he is above board. I do not find it credible that he didn't know he was hosting child-porn. And I think the Irish system should have prosecuted him.

Maybe he 'just' facilitated it?

D1stant

Seaneh wrote: »

BECAUSE ITS BETTER TO DO THE TIME HERE THAN IN THE US.

He was probably advised by his solicitors that is he isn't tried in Ireland he WILL be extradited and once he's extradited, he's ****ed.

The US Justice system is a farce, it's one of the most ridiculous systems on the planet. There is a reason that America has less that 5% of the population of the planet but still houses 25% of the earth's prison population. More than China, Russia and India combined. In the US it's not about who's guilty or innocent, it's all just pantomime.

No disagreement on the US system

But you are surmising a lot here.

a) He is innocent
b) But the Irish court would have found him guilty
c) His legal team advised him to plead guilty in Ireland

P_1

Out of interest does anybody else have a slight unease at the FBI seemingly interfering with the justice system of our country?

Seaneh

D1stant wrote: »

No disagreement on the US system

But you are surmising a lot here.

a) He is innocent
b) But the Irish court would have found him guilty
c) His legal team advised him to plead guilty in Ireland

The Irish system probably would have found him guilty, yes, but they would probably also find boards guilty in a liable case.

That doesn't mean he's actually guilty, it just means the laws, or the judges interpretation of it, is a load of ****.

He didn't *DO* anything, besides commit tax evasion.

He SHOULD be tried for that, found guilty and heavily fined.

MadsL

P_1 wrote: »

Out of interest does anybody else have a slight unease at the FBI seemingly interfering with the justice system of our country?

They aren't beyond requesting extradition, beyond that police forces co-operate all over the world.

thee glitz

Was this lad even in the US?

Sir Humphrey Appleby

D1stant wrote: »

But as I understand he will almost definitely be extradited for a much longer sentence in the US (at their expense). Let him rot.

He almost certainly will not now be extradited due to the huge differential in sentences between here and the US.

Capri

'Bit harsh' or....:eek:

http://www.thanhniennews.com/index/pages/20131220-corruption-means-death-sometimes.aspx

In Vietnam corruption means death, sometimes...

On November 15, a Ho Chi Minh City court sentenced a former banker and his business associate to death for siphoning off millions of dollars in a major loan scam that caused the Vietnam Bank for Agriculture and Rural Development VND531 billion (US$25.1 million) in losses.

On December 16, a Hanoi court handed down death sentences to two former bosses of the state-run Vietnam National Shipping Lines (Vinalines) for embezzling $476,000 each in a high-profile corruption scam that rocked the country.

Given that Vietnam’s top echelons have repeatedly tried to assuage people’s fears of rampant graft, the sentences apparently exhibit the political will to repair shattered public confidence. Three death sentences given to former state bigwigs in a matter of one month is indeed rare in a country where a number of current anti-corruption measures have been dismissed as window dressings..........

DamagedTrax

if he doesnt face charges here then on what grounds can they hold him for extradition? is he not free to just disappear as he's not being charged?

(not up on legal at all so this aspect is confusing me).

Skylinehead

MadsL wrote: »

They aren't beyond requesting extradition, beyond that police forces co-operate all over the world.

If he did the crime here, they shouldn't even be doing that and stay out of the Irish justice systems business.

Dave!

Do we know what other kind of websites he hosts? It seems to me that Tor is used for very little other than child porn, weapons and drug sales, and sundry other illegal stuff.

I'd also find it a bit implausible that he wouldn't be aware of what he's hosting. However even if he wasn't aware—and his whole model requires his not knowing what he's hosting—he is still responsible.

If you leave a suitcase open and unmonitored, and tell people that they can put what they want in it, and some unscrupulous person puts drugs in it, you will be prosecuted for drug trafficking. It's not even that you were trying to protect your suitcase and someone snuck the drugs in—he's intentionally closing his eyes and letting people host what they want.

I gather some security-conscious people use Tor to avoid monitoring/identification by government agencies for legitimate reasons, and his motivation may have been to facilitate this for all I know, but that doesn't mean you get off the hook for the bad stuff.

Bipolar Joe

Dave! wrote: »

Do we know what other kind of websites he hosts? It seems to me that Tor is used for very little other than child porn, weapons and drug sales, and sundry other illegal stuff.

I'd also find it a bit implausible that he wouldn't be aware of what he's hosting. However even if he wasn't aware—and his whole model requires his not knowing what he's hosting—he is still responsible.

If you leave a suitcase open and unmonitored, and tell people that they can put what they want in it, and some unscrupulous person puts drugs in it, you will be prosecuted for drug trafficking. It's not even that you were trying to protect your suitcase and someone snuck the drugs in—he's intentionally closing his eyes and letting people host what they want.

I gather some security-conscious people use Tor to avoid monitoring/identification by government agencies for legitimate reasons, and his motivation may have been to facilitate this for all I know, but that doesn't mean you get off the hook for the bad stuff.

If you invite someone into your house, and they take pornographic photos of your children, you should go to prison for provifing a closed environment for that someone, and thus facilitating and producing child pornography..

Dave!

Bipolar Joe wrote: »

If you invite someone into your house, and they take pornographic photos of your children, you should go to prison for provifing a closed environment for that someone, and thus facilitating and producing child pornography..

Not sure if this is a counter-point or a question or what you're getting at here, but anyway—if you invited a stranger (with no background check) into your house, and actively told them that you will not be monitoring what they do while they're there—including while they're alone with your children—and they end up abusing them, then you could certainly be prosecuted for some flavour of child neglect, and I think you'd have a hard time convincing a court that the abuse did not have your tacit approval.

What about my analogy though?