Is it legal to drive a sulky on the road in Ireland?

Pumpkinseeds

I'm just wondering if it's legal to drive a sulky on the roads in Ireland. I saw a traveller training a horse on one as I was waiting for a bus and the horse didn't look happy. I didn't know whether to report it at the time.

Holsten

"If you wish to ride your horse on a public road, you may do so provided that the horse has a licence, is fitted with a bridle and is under the control of someone over 16 years of age."

So seems to be legal.

Pumpkinseeds

Thanks for the reply, although I would have thought that there would be a different classification between riding a horse on the road and driving a sulky. Horses are generally ridden by the side of the road, whereas, a sulky is driven in the same traffic lanes as cars etc.

Pro Hoc Vice

Pumpkinseeds wrote: »

Thanks for the reply, although I would have thought that there would be a different classification between riding a horse on the road and driving a sulky. Horses are generally ridden by the side of the road, whereas, a sulky is driven in the same traffic lanes as cars etc.

Considering it can be an offence to drive an animal-drawn vehicle while intoxicated, it must be legal to drive one.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2010/en/act/pub/0025/sec0006.html#sec6

As only MPV's require, NCT, Tax, insurance or driving licence I can not think of any reason why it may be illegal, but am open to correction and will look into it further.

Carawaystick

How would a sulky be different to a pony and trap?
Or the jarvey's in Kerry?

Pumpkinseeds

Carawaystick wrote: »

How would a sulky be different to a pony and trap?
Or the jarvey's in Kerry?

Presumably the above won't be raced on motorways.

Pro Hoc Vice

Pumpkinseeds wrote: »

Presumably the above won't be raced on motorways.

Motorways I would think all animal type vehicles are banned as are many other forms of transport. If your question is are silkies allowed drive on motorways the answer is no they are not.

In relation to any other road i see no issue, of course they must still obey the law and dangerous driving will prosecuted http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/cork-sulky-racers-get-jail-terms-reduced-to-three-months-1.1587186

Wheelnut

Pumpkinseeds wrote: »

... legal to drive a sulky on the roads in Ireland. I saw a traveller training a horse on one ...

Surely this is an outrageous racist post. Travellers are an ethnic minority so it is unreasonable to expect them to conform to the rules of settled people.





@infosys: that link to the Road Traffic Act is interesting. It is an offence to control a horse or ride a bike while under the influence but it seems to be subjective (opinion of a Garda) rather than subject to the drink / drive limits... or am I wrong again?

Peregrinus

The test is whether the defendant is "under the influence of an intoxicant to such an extent as to be incapable of having proper control of the vehicle or cycle". That's an objective standard, not a subjective one, and there's nothing about the opinion of a guard in there.

That's also the test under the s. 5 offences, which refer to mechanically propelled vehicles.

The "incapable of having proper control" offences are the older ones; that's what you would be prosecuted for before reliable blood/alcohol testing became routinely and conveniently available. The offences which refer to specific blood/alcohol measures were introduced later, and refer only to MPVs, probably because by then the focus was on drink-driving of cars as presenting a major public problem in the way that being drunk on bicycles and pony traps, frankly, does not.

Victor

Wheelnut wrote: »

It is an offence to control a horse or ride a bike while under the influence but it seems to be subjective (opinion of a Garda) rather than subject to the drink / drive limits... or am I wrong again?

It is subjective - opinion of garda and judge, but that can be applied to other drivers also.

Wheelnut

Peregrinus wrote: »

... that's what you would be prosecuted for before reliable blood/alcohol testing became routinely and conveniently available. The offences which refer to specific blood/alcohol measures were introduced later, and refer only to MPVs, probably because by then the focus was on drink-driving of cars as presenting a major public problem in the way that being drunk on bicycles and pony traps, frankly, does not.

I think that's what I was getting at. As a non-legal person reading that link it seemed to me that the procedures are different. For a motor vehicle there are tests and measurements but for a bicycle or horse-drawn vehicle the prosecution is based on the Garda's opinion.

Pro Hoc Vice

Wheelnut wrote: »

I think that's what I was getting at. As a non-legal person reading that link it seemed to me that the procedures are different. For a motor vehicle there are tests and measurements but for a bicycle or horse-drawn vehicle the prosecution is based on the Garda's opinion.

Not correct there are two possible offences for driving the first is basic intoxicated driving that is proof of intoxicant and proof of inability to have proper control of a MPV. The second is the sample type cases only applicable to drink driving not drug driving.

Bike and animal draw vehicle only have type one offences.

Victor

infosys wrote: »

The second is the sample type cases only applicable to drink driving not drug driving.

Anyone tested for alcohol and getting a negative result in the laboratory will have that sample tested for drugs. This then tends to be a strict liability case with no allowances as there are for alcohol.

Thoie

Holsten wrote: »

"If you wish to ride your horse on a public road, you may do so provided that the horse has a licence, is fitted with a bridle and is under the control of someone over 16 years of age."

So seems to be legal.

Was that always the case? I had thought up to now I'd led a lovely law-abiding life, but I used fairly regularly ride a horse and lead another one along a road when I was under 16

JillyQ

I think maybe this should be posted in the equestrian forum. I think there is a difference between someone riding a horse and a sulky race.

brian_t

The Cork County Joint Policing Committee have made recommendations to the Government for new laws on sulky racing.

The JPC has recommended that in future such races only be allowed if the sulky drivers wear reflective jackets, helmets and have anti-roll bars fitted to their carriages.

They also want people engaged in such races to give prior warning to the authorities and furnish them with an event safety statement for road races. They also propose that all horses are fitted with nappies.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/archives/2013/0925/ireland/sulky-racing-travellers-should-have-been-consulted-244134.html

Wheelnut

The JPC has recommended that in future such races only be allowed if the sulky drivers wear reflective jackets, helmets and have anti-roll bars fitted to their carriages.

They also want people engaged in such races to give prior warning to the authorities and furnish them with an event safety statement for road races. They also propose that all horses are fitted with nappies.

I suppose next they'll want them to tax and insure the Hiaces!
:rolleyes:

Pat Mustard

brian_t wrote: »

The Cork County Joint Policing Committee have made recommendations to the Government for new laws on sulky racing.


http://www.irishexaminer.com/archives/2013/0925/ireland/sulky-racing-travellers-should-have-been-consulted-244134.html

I love the title of the article; Travellers should have been consulted. They have some neck to look for funding.

As if the sulky race organisers consulted anybody when they used both carriageways and their buddies ran motorists off the Cork-Mallow road, just so they could bet on a race.

Maybe the government could build a new Circus Maximus in Mountjoy to rekindle the ancient Roman sport of chariot racing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uuMS3WRGIvQ

Victor

Note that there is a big difference between "driving" and "racing".

Carawaystick

I suppose it should be pointed out that "riding furiously" is illegal

MadsL

Carawaystick wrote: »

I suppose it should be pointed out that "riding furiously" is illegal

Where as riding "slightly annoyed" is perfectly legal

Victor

Carawaystick wrote: »

I suppose it should be pointed out that "riding furiously" is illegal

Isn't it "furious riding"? And isn't it only an offence in towns?

Pat Mustard

Victor wrote: »

Isn't it "furious riding"? And isn't it only an offence in towns?

It's called furious driving, iirc. I haven't looked it up to see if it's still on the books, or whether it has been repealed.