clip in or not (mtb)

get on your bike

I know it's mostly road related on this but I also know a lot of yis have mtb also, so quick question, to clip in or not using spds?

Any tips using spds if I go that way?

Cheers in advance,
d

Raam

Clip in.

Tenzor07

SPD's all the way!

kenmc

if you're using SPDs you should definitely clip in.

ford2600

get on your bike wrote: »

I know it's mostly road related on this but I also know a lot of yis have mtb also, so quick question, to clip in or not using spds?

Any tips using spds if I go that way?

Cheers in advance,
d

XC, trail riding being clipped in makes a huge difference and you get used to it very quickly.

Very beneficial on technical steep climbs, very muddy sections; just keep the power on

pot p

I find them great on climbs but as my skill level isn't good they have caused me lots of problems on fast technical decents. So much so that I've gone back to flats till i improve

Tenzor07

pot p wrote: »

I find them great on climbs but as my skill level isn't good they have caused me lots of problems on fast technical decents. So much so that I've gone back to flats till i improve

Should be the other way around!

Only the more Skilled/Experienced MTB'ers use flats for Enduro/DH racing so they can get the foot out fast when they have to.. and they know how to stay attached/jump the bike using flats...

newbies and less skilled should always use Spd's and stay attached to their bikes..you are just giving yourself a false sense of security!

I can unclip from Spd's in a split second and have never had any issues if i ever came off the bike...

get on your bike

ford2600 wrote: »

XC, trail riding being clipped in makes a huge difference and you get used to it very quickly.

Very beneficial on technical steep climbs, very muddy sections; just keep the power on

Cheers for replies. Was thinking they'd be good on climbs alright and xc. Going to give them a lash and see how it goes. Think it's possible to unclip going down if feeling unsure bout it. Kinda expecting a few spills till I get used to it

rab!dmonkey

It all comes down to personal preference really. Beginners should start off with flats (good flat pedals, mind - not the cheap plastic ones that you find on cheap bikes) until they develop the skills to get around their preferred trails smoothly and without dabbing. Bunny-hopping is a skill that must be learned with flats too: if you need clips to do it, you can't do it!

If you just ride tame XC trails, you should be able to move on to clips pretty quickly. If you prefer to ride the rough stuff, it will probably take a bit longer for you to build up enough confidence to ride clipped in. Don't be afraid to move back to flats if the trails are a big muddy mess either.

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Should be the other way around!
[...]
newbies and less skilled should always use Spd's and stay attached to their bikes..you are just giving yourself a false sense of security!

So you'd teach a kid to ride using SPD's?

Tomred13

clip in all the way..

After you get used to the feeling of being clipped off road you will love it, as other posters said you'll find youself climbing alot faster, being clipped in also improves your balance and control when ya have to make quick changes in direction. shimano spd's are the best for longevity in my experience,,

Tenzor07

rab!dmonkey wrote: »

It all comes down to personal preference really. Beginners should start off with flats (good flat pedals, mind - not the cheap plastic ones that you find on cheap bikes) until they develop the skills to get around their preferred trails smoothly and without dabbing. Bunny-hopping is a skill that must be learned with flats too: if you need clips to do it, you can't do it!

If you just ride tame XC trails, you should be able to move on to clips pretty quickly. If you prefer to ride the rough stuff, it will probably take a bit longer for you to build up enough confidence to ride clipped in. Don't be afraid to move back to flats if the trails are a big muddy mess either.


So you'd teach a kid to ride using SPD's?

If you are not into buying separate shoes and just want to rock out with your gym trainers once a month then flats would be the obvious choice. Unless you are an experienced DH racer or BMX trick rider.

These Shimano pedals offer a large flat platform as well as being able to clip in. You can adjust the tension on the pedals so the slightest movement will unclip you if you want: M647 and cycling shoes don't look lame anymore: Freeride shoes

Budawanny

flats all the way.
keeping balance on flats comes with practise.
Also 5;10s are designed to stick to the pedals. They are pretty awesome.
when you fall off clipped in, and it will happen no matter hoe fast you can unclip, the damage is alot more severe than being unclipped.

fluting around a easy red trail clipped in is fine. when you start hitting black trails it becomes alot more risky.

in saying that, these are my personal opinions, i would say that its probably 50 50 between those who do and dont. and unfortunately you will need to find out for yourself.

i stand by spd related accident damage, it can be exacerbated i think.

random.stranger

Another vote for flats from me. I have been advised by experienced riders to ride with flats for at least 1 or 2 years before considering clipless. You will develop a better technique because of it.

I suggest you check out this link:
http://www.bikejames.com/strength/the-flat-pedal-revolution-manifesto-how-to-improve-your-riding-with-flat-pedals/

kumate_champ07

SPD's for sure, the upstroke really helps with acceleration

get on your bike

kumate_champ07 wrote: »

SPD's for sure, the upstroke really helps with acceleration

Cheers replies lads
think it's 50/50 really. Gonna give them a lash anyway. Wouldn't be the craziest rider by any means by think they'd be good for the up bit

Tenzor07

random.stranger wrote: »

Another vote for flats from me. I have been advised by experienced riders to ride with flats for at least 1 or 2 years before considering clipless. You will develop a better technique because of it.

Hilarious!

Smith614

Help. Iv done a lot of sportives from 40 km up to ROK at 180 km and don't use any clip ins. A pair of runners and normal pedals. Am I making it difficult for myself? Am I wasting energy?

get on your bike

pot p wrote: »

I find them great on climbs but as my skill level isn't good they have caused me lots of problems on fast technical decents. So much so that I've gone back to flats till i improve

As a matter of interest what problems did they cause

pot p

get on your bike wrote: »

As a matter of interest what problems did they cause

It would probably be more to do wit my skill level and wit how fast i wanted to go but on technical decents when carrying speed i found that not having my feet clipped in made it easier to balance and not fall off. Had a few falls when clipped in, although sometimes i did find myself adjusting my feet on the flats after jumps an so. Maybe when/if i get better i might give them a try again

Mamil biker

We used to call clip-ins on MTB 'Devil Pedals'.....

random.stranger

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Hilarious!

I aim to please, this will crack you up:

There’s some great information from James Wilson, who trains many world-class mountain bikers, debunking some of the myths regarding clipless pedals. I’m not going to waste words by regurgitating it here, but his insights are well worth reading, particularly his discussion of which muscles are actually used during the pedal stroke (check it out at www.bikejames.com). Instead, I’m going to tell you what spending trail time on flat pedals has taught me about my own riding, and the changes and improvements I’ve had to undergo. I suspect that my experiences will mirror those of most mountain bikers.

Tenzor07

Meh, I won't be taking advice from the Internerd any time soon, prefer to listen to the most experienced/skilled mountain bikers I know in person..

unless i take up BMX trick riding or buy a DJ bike..

get on your bike

random.stranger wrote: »

I aim to please, this will crack you up:

Huh! Going to go for spin today. I shall report back with the use of the devil pedals

get on your bike

get on your bike wrote: »

Huh! Going to go for spin today. I shall report back with the use of the devil pedals

Well, just in from a spin. Went up to lead mines via Dublin way bit. . Got up to inintersection of road bit grand and then up other path to tower. Wasnt on the path 10 seconds and came off. Really slippy. Fell off 3/4 times on that stretch. Then onto Trail which was fine on the down bits but the the up Hills= off. Off a load of times. But felt ok on the down bits.

Is it that it's just slippy that I'm coming off or what's the story. Will I keep at it or what do people think?

Budawanny

get on your bike wrote: »

Well, just in from a spin. Went up to lead mines via Dublin way bit. . Got up to inintersection of road bit grand and then up other path to tower. Wasnt on the path 10 seconds and came off. Really slippy. Fell off 3/4 times on that stretch. Then onto Trail which was fine on the down bits but the the up Hills= off. Off a load of times. But felt ok on the down bits.

Is it that it's just slippy that I'm coming off or what's the story. Will I keep at it or what do people think?

Maybe your a bit more reticent than usual with the spds.
You could practise unclipping on a road bike/hybrid untill your used to it.
then you would have more confidence.
I dont use them anymore but thats just down to personal preference really.

Mamil biker

get on your bike wrote: »

Is it that it's just slippy that I'm coming off or what's the story. Will I keep at it or what do people think?

Maybe you have too much pressure in the tyres.... ? They will grip a bit better if you haven't as much pressure..... Down side is that it makes pedalling a bit tougher.

(That is why you are faster than me on the road bike :-)



MAMIL

triggermortis

You can get pedals that have spd on one side and flat on the other if you want variety.
Personally I find being clipped in much better for going uphill or downhill on the MTB

get on your bike

triggermortis wrote: »

You can get pedals that have spd on one side and flat on the other if you want variety.
Personally I find being clipped in much better for going uphill or downhill on the MTB

Any tips going up Hill without falling over

get on your bike

Mamil biker wrote: »

Maybe you have too much pressure in the tyres.... ? They will grip a bit better if you haven't as much pressure..... Down side is that it makes pedalling a bit tougher.

(That is why you are faster than me on the road bike :-)



MAMIL

does that mean you're going to let air out off Me tyres on the next spin

pot p

It's all about cadence goin up the hills, keep the legs spinning. Tyre pressure is also important but this can lead to a lot of punctures if ur not running tubeless tyres. Type of tyre also, different tyres for different conditions

Budawanny

and if the hill gets a bit steep push yourself up the saddle over the handle bars. it will stop the front wheel lifting.

Don't Chute!

get on your bike wrote: »

Well, just in from a spin. Went up to lead mines via Dublin way bit. . Got up to inintersection of road bit grand and then up other path to tower. Wasnt on the path 10 seconds and came off. Really slippy. Fell off 3/4 times on that stretch. Then onto Trail which was fine on the down bits but the the up Hills= off. Off a load of times. But felt ok on the down bits.

Is it that it's just slippy that I'm coming off or what's the story. Will I keep at it or what do people think?

I got some spds after about two years mtbing and to be honest i hated them, just kept falling off so i got a good set of flat pedals and they are fantastic. Basically its down to personal preference, i just found myself not enjoying spins when clipped in.

random.stranger

Budawanny wrote: »

and if the hill gets a bit steep push yourself up the saddle over the handle bars. it will stop the front wheel lifting.

Like in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WkS8nzvqfPA

Popoutman

I'd strongly recommend SPDs. There are advantages to both types for sure, but for the majority of off-road bikers I know will use SPDs. Only the full DH rigs are not being used with SPDs and even that is changing amongst my friends.

The main advantage for off-road cycling is that your feet are in a known position on the pedals without any fuss. Yes you can get that with flats as well but it's certainly not as fast nor as sure as just clipping in. It's great to be able in one swift movement to clip in and know that your foot is in the right place. I run light spring pressures and I'll unclip very quickly - yet to have an off where being clipped in was an issue. I'm also well able to get the pedal unclipped if I need to dab - it's all part of the natural movement for me at this stage.

There are some studies out there that belie the mechanical advantage on the upstroke, the overall effect (based on the recent studies I've read) is that there's negligible difference in max power output between flats and SPDs. If it makes you feel more comfortable to pull upwards on the backstroke of the pedal then by all means do that. Personally I can cycle more smoothly (more circularly) with SPDs than with flats leading to more climbs completed dab-free, and less slipping out when powering through muddy stuff.

If using SPDs, Shimano SPD all the way, and start with the spring pressure as light as possible but enough to feel the clipping in action. Adjust the spring pressure as personal feel dictates.

Scrappy600

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Should be the other way around!

Only the more Skilled/Experienced MTB'ers use flats for Enduro/DH racing so they can get the foot out fast when they have to.. and they know how to stay attached/jump the bike using flats...

newbies and less skilled should always use Spd's and stay attached to their bikes..you are just giving yourself a false sense of security!

I can unclip from Spd's in a split second and have never had any issues if i ever came off the bike...

Sorry but I completely disagree with this, it's the complete other way round. Look at the dh world champs, only a select few riders stick to flats and these tend to be dirt jumpers like fairclough etc that love flats and see spds as an abomination. The rest have all gone the spd route because of its efficiency for pedalling.
To tell a new rider that he needs to be attached to his bike is dangerous as they're the ones who tend to crash most and doing that attached to the bike is gonna end badly. A new rider needs to learn basic skills, of cornering jumping etc and how to stay on flats safely before making the transition to spd purely for its efficiency benefits. If you switch to spd to help you stay on the pedals you're doing it for the wrong reasons and should learn the basic skills first.
I don't use them (and yes I have tried them) because I'm quite a messy rider and need to be able to dab my foot on the dh bike, same for the enduro bike.
In short the only decision to go clipped in on a MTB should be for the pedalling efficiency if you're doing it for any other reason you need to go back and learn the basic skills.

Tenzor07

Sorry, just to clarify, I'm talking about Novice/improver riders, e.g. someone who has a decent MTB and does the Coillte trails a few times a month and is looking to improve their MTB'ing..

The more casual rider who may go out the odd time and would not want to invest in the shoes/pedals, or who has never really been off-road, then sure, flat pedals are fine..

Scrappy600

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Sorry, just to clarify, I'm talking about Novice/improver riders, e.g. someone who has a decent MTB and does the Coillte trails a few times a month and is looking to improve their MTB'ing..

The more casual rider who may go out the odd time and would not want to invest in the shoes/pedals, or who has never really been off-road, then sure, flat pedals are fine..

Im out usually every week since 2011 and have raced dh and gravity enduro and i don't and will not use flats. Its not a universal thing that once you become experienced you must go clipped in, its an entirely individual thing and should only really done for the efficiency benefits, you should never use it to keep you on the bike, thats the point im making. If you're going to do it at all then do your time on flats, learn the skills and then move onto clips when you get faster, not in order to get faster.

I'll give you an example, put a new rider on a set of flats and ask him to bunny hop and he wont have a clue what to do to get that bike in the air. Clip him in though and i guarantee to some extent he'll get that bike in the air almost straight away, but hes never actually learned the technique how to do it. That's the point i'm trying to make, all those skills should be developed before moving to clips, there's so many lads i know having trouble loosing their feet on pedals over jumps because they haven't learned to jump properly and deciding to use flats to keep their feet on the pedals and as a result never learning how to jump properly meaning the skills are never there its the clips they're relying on to mask their problems.

For a novice rider looking to improve, clips will improve the pedalling efficiency and they will definitely notice the difference climbing up Ticknock. But what goes up must come down and clips will not make you a better rider coming down. That's why as far as i'm concerned, you only switch to clips once you are a pretty developed rider.

get on your bike

Scrappy600 wrote: »

Im out usually every week since 2011 and have raced dh and gravity enduro and i don't and will not use flats. Its not a universal thing that once you become experienced you must go clipped in, its an entirely individual thing and should only really done for the efficiency benefits, you should never use it to keep you on the bike, thats the point im making. If you're going to do it at all then do your time on flats, learn the skills and then move onto clips when you get faster, not in order to get faster.

I'll give you an example, put a new rider on a set of flats and ask him to bunny hop and he wont have a clue what to do to get that bike in the air. Clip him in though and i guarantee to some extent he'll get that bike in the air almost straight away, but hes never actually learned the technique how to do it. That's the point i'm trying to make, all those skills should be developed before moving to clips, there's so many lads i know having trouble loosing their feet on pedals over jumps because they haven't learned to jump properly and deciding to use flats to keep their feet on the pedals and as a result never learning how to jump properly meaning the skills are never there its the clips they're relying on to mask their problems.

For a novice rider looking to improve, clips will improve the pedalling efficiency and they will definitely notice the difference climbing up Ticknock. But what goes up must come down and clips will not make you a better rider coming down. That's why as far as i'm concerned, you only switch to clips once you are a pretty developed rider.

was hoping to get to ballinastoe today but never made it. I was thinking might be easier to find your feet,so to speak there, ad it's Trail - fire road etc. I'm thinking I came off so much the other day because the up Hills were mad slippy with roots and lost grip very easy and down. I suppose Power on all the time might stop that but not sure. Any thoughts?

Scrappy600

get on your bike wrote: »

was hoping to get to ballinastoe today but never made it. I was thinking might be easier to find your feet,so to speak there, ad it's Trail - fire road etc. I'm thinking I came off so much the other day because the up Hills were mad slippy with roots and lost grip very easy and down. I suppose Power on all the time might stop that but not sure. Any thoughts?

Speed is definitely your friend where roots are concerned, the faster you hit them and skim over them the better, and do not be anywhere near the brakes when you are on them. What tyres are you using?

get on your bike

Scrappy600 wrote: »

Speed is definitely your friend where roots are concerned, the faster you hit them and skim over them the better, and do not be anywhere near the brakes when you are on them. What tyres are you using?

Not sure. Came with spec rockhopper Pro evo.

Tenzor07

Scrappy600 wrote: »

Im out usually every week since 2011 and have raced dh and gravity enduro and i don't and will not use flats. Its not a universal thing that once you become experienced you must go clipped in, its an entirely individual thing and should only really done for the efficiency benefits, you should never use it to keep you on the bike, thats the point im making. If you're going to do it at all then do your time on flats, learn the skills and then move onto clips when you get faster, not in order to get faster.I'll give you an example, put a new rider on a set of flats and ask him to bunny hop and he wont have a clue what to do to get that bike in the air. Clip him in though and i guarantee to some extent he'll get that bike in the air almost straight away, but hes never actually learned the technique how to do it. That's the point i'm trying to make, all those skills should be developed before moving to clips, there's so many lads i know having trouble loosing their feet on pedals over jumps because they haven't learned to jump properly and deciding to use flats to keep their feet on the pedals and as a result never learning how to jump properly meaning the skills are never there its the clips they're relying on to mask their problems.For a novice rider looking to improve, clips will improve the pedalling efficiency and they will definitely notice the difference climbing up Ticknock. But what goes up must come down and clips will not make you a better rider coming down. That's why as far as i'm concerned, you only switch to clips once you are a pretty developed rider.

Having been a big user of flat pedals with toe clips and straps, until 1991 when I started using SPD's and never looked back..
This was when Gravity enduro and DH was called riding your bike up and down the mountains! :rolleyes:

Scrappy600

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Having been a big user of flat pedals with toe clips and straps, until 1991 when I started using SPD's and never looked back..
This was when Gravity enduro and DH was called riding your bike up and down the mountains! :rolleyes:

Then you're extremely experienced and are not going to change your opinion to mine no matter what so this is pointless.

Tenzor07

It is personal choice at the end of the day, I just think SPD's are the way to go for the majority of MTB riding...

Don't forget also that you may have a lot of road riders, those who race as well as more casual riders who are well used to riding clip-less and who have a MTB for winter training etc, who are less concerned with jumps etc...

Scrappy600

Tenzor07 wrote: »

It is personal choice at the end of the day, I just think SPD's are the way to go for the majority of MTB riding...

Don't forget also that you may have a lot of road riders, those who race as well as more casual riders who are well used to riding clip-less and who have a MTB for winter training etc, who are less concerned with jumps etc...

Interesting that you mention that as I got on a roadie a few months ago and couldn't imagine using anything but my spdl's because they make pedalling so much easier and allow me go much further but I still couldn't do it on the mtb. I guess I'm part of the Fairclough/Hill type brigade who just don't see the gains as worth it.

Now if they could invent clips that disappear as soon as you reach the top and transform into flat pedals for coming down i'd be all over them!

Lumen

As a roadie who has used clipless pedals pretty much since they were invented, I found MTB and BMX on flats later in life impossible.

I just could not get my head around how it is possible to keep feet in contact with the pedals in zero-G. Consequently when I jumped, I crashed, painfully. This probably says a lot about my lousy bike handling skills - I was using the cleats as a crutch to fix bad technique.

So I'll argue from ignorance that novice riders should probably learn on flats, or else they'll pick up the same bad habits I have.

get on your bike

Lumen wrote: »

As a roadie who has used clipless pedals pretty much since they were invented, I found MTB and BMX on flats later in life impossible.

I just could not get my head around how it is possible to keep feet in contact with the pedals in zero-G. Consequently when I jumped, I crashed, painfully. This probably says a lot about my lousy bike handling skills - I was using the cleats as a crutch to fix bad technique.

So I'll argue from ignorance that novice riders should probably learn on flats, or else they'll pick up the same bad habits I have.

Going to ballinastoe for a morning spin. I'll report how clips go later

get on your bike

get on your bike wrote: »

Going to ballinastoe for a morning spin. I'll report how clips go later

Went out earlier before weather went mental. Overall was good. Was great for uphill sections there. One major thing wether clipped in or not is to stay seated while climbing particularly when steep as will spin out otherwise.
Going down was also good. Took it handy enough but good that your feet don't belt all over the gaffe.
Bit more practice I think bit will stick at it

Popoutman

Part of the secret when going to clips at the start is to make sure the clip strength adjustment is set so you can unclip with ease. As you gain in confidence you can always strengthen the adjustment.

Personally I use the SPDs with a light spring, but each to their own

shando09

triggermortis wrote: »

You can get pedals that have spd on one side and flat on the other if you want variety.
Personally I find being clipped in much better for going uphill or downhill on the MTB

I got into MTB 5 weeks ago or so and got those pedals fitted when i got the bike thinking i would save myself some money rather than having to buy clips in once i got used to it.. They are a disaster because i was constantly looking for the proper side of the pedal for normal runners as there was little grip on the clip in side.. Bought normal pedals with little screws in for grip a couple of weeks ago and they made it 100% easier..

Will stick with the flat pedals for another while before i get the confidence for clips ins..

get on your bike

Got a pair of dx clips other day. Bit of a platform around them. So far I'm enjoying them

nordicb

I see very competent MTB cyclists on both flats and clipped. Those who come from road bikes, I think, they naturally go clipped as it feels more natural to them. Having said that, I see tendency DH riders using flats more than clips. Personally, I tried switching to flats, but really disliked it on a very first run, particularly climbs felt very inefficient. Lightest setting on SPDs, as someone suggested, is my preference, it does unclip by itself the odd time, but just feels nice being connected to the bike...