Re: Fluke

grange mac

Spoke to a vet yest, said alot of bullocks going to factories in cork are riddled with fluke.
This has to be from bad spring we had.
Question is lads, how long does it talk immature fluke to become adult fluke as I dont know any pouron that does both, coop tried selling me clonsactim but it only kills adult fluke.

Billocks were dosed for worms n lice not fluke....said animals very scuttery so need a fluke dose.

Vet was out for bullock that slipped on slats and cracked one side of his hoof...so a week of injection for pain killers to him and a long and slow recovery in isolation house.

TUBBY

grange mac wrote: »

Spoke to a vet yest, said alot of bullocks going to factories in cork are riddled with fluke.
This has to be from bad spring we had.
Question is lads, how long does it talk immature fluke to become adult fluke as I dont know any pouron that does both, coop tried selling me clonsactim but it only kills adult fluke.

Billocks were dosed for worms n lice not fluke....said animals very scuttery so need a fluke dose.

Vet was out for bullock that slipped on slats and cracked one side of his hoof...so a week of injection for pain killers to him and a long and slow recovery in isolation house.

6 weeks after housing, any mature fluke dose will do the job then.

grange mac

TUBBY wrote: »

6 weeks after housing, any mature fluke dose will do the job then.

Are we talking zanil, lefas diamond etc?

leoch

I thought zanil was just for stomach worms

grange mac

leoch wrote: »

I thought zanil was just for stomach worms

I havnt a clue, usually go with what coop tries to sell me so will pretend to know what im on about when go there next time.
A good fluke & wormer?

epfff

grange mac wrote: »

I havnt a clue, usually go with what coop tries to sell me so will pretend to know what im on about when go there next time.
A good fluke & wormer?

Don't believe a good combined fluke and wormer exists
you must go separate

jomoloney

biggest problem in this area is rumen fluke

Fasinex or it's cheaper equivalent Tribex covers most stages of liver fluke

we use this at housing and follow up 6 weeks later with Zanil or levasas diamond hoping to get any liver fluke we missed and also cover for rumen fluke

Zanil is ffor fluke only

best to discuss with your vet a dosing regime for yourself

use cheap products and use wisely will give a lot better results than expensive pour on and combination doses used incorrectly

st1979

leoch wrote: »

I thought zanil was just for stomach worms

No zanil and levafas diamond are the only ones to do stomach fluke. And they do mature liver fluke

RaggyDays

Are stomach fluke and liver fluke two different things or are they the same fluke but at different stages of their life-cycle??

jomoloney

RaggyDays wrote: »

Are stomach fluke and liver fluke two different things or are they the same fluke but at different stages of their life-cycle??

different

liver fluke attacks the liver


rumen fluke the lining of the stomach

different larvae as well

saw rumen fluke in some heifers we killed ,, these heifers were mud fat and healthy

but the vet showed me the maggots crawling in the stomach wall

utterly disgusting to look at

Marooned75

Using closamectin this year very happy with it used levasas last year thought it went fierce hard on bullocks although it was a fcuker of a year.

Muckit

Using trodax around Christmas

TUBBY

Would not dose for stomach fluke just as the norm. Found levafas very hard on cattle. Sent off dung samples and if needed will dose. It has become a bit of a buzz word. Not sure if it the big prob everyone says. Something like binectin injection would do ya. Adult fluke and worms lice mange covered for small money.

bob charles

No problems with Rumen fluke this year around here, serious problem with liver fluke and has being since mid summer:eek:

jomoloney

TUBBY wrote: »

Would not dose for stomach fluke just as the norm. Found levafas very hard on cattle. Sent off dung samples and if needed will dose. It has become a bit of a buzz word. Not sure if it the big prob everyone says. Something like binectin injection would do ya. Adult fluke and worms lice mange covered for small money.

dung sample are not 100% reliable for fluke, only way is to follow the carcass down the line

do you mean BIMECTIN INJECTION, ? good dose but didn't know it cover fluke

BIMECTIN INJECTION Ivermectin 1% w/v PRESENTATION A clear, colourless slightly viscous, non-aqueous sterile solution containing 1% w/v Ivermectin. TARGET SPECIES Cattle, Sheep and Pigs. INDICATIONS FOR USE, SPECIFYING THE TARGET SPECIES For the effective treatment and control of the following harmful parasites of cattle, sheep and pigs: Cattle Gastrointestinal roundworms (adult and fourth-stage larvae): Ostertagia spp. (including inhibited O. ostertagi) Haemonchus placei Trichostrongylus axei T. colubriformis Cooperia spp. Bunostomum phlebotomum Oesophagostomum radiatum Strongyloides papillosus (adult) Nematodirus helvetianus (adult) N. spathiger (adult) Trichuris spp (adult). Lungworms (adult and fourth-stage larvae): Dictyocaulus viviparus Eye worms (adult): Thelazia spp. Warbles: Hypoderma bovis H. lineatum Mange mites: Psoroptes bovis Sarcoptes scabiei var. bovis Suckling lice: Linognathus vituli Haematopinus eurysternus Solenopotes capillatus May also be used as an aid in the control of the mange mite Chorioptes bovis and biting lice Damalinia bovis, but complete elimination may not occur. Persistent Activity Treatment at the recommended dose rate can control re-infection with Haemonchus placei and Cooperia spp. acquired up to 14 days after treatment, Ostertagia ostertagi and Oesophagostomum radiatum acquired up to 21 days after treatment and Dictyocaulus viviparus up to 28 days after treatment. To obtain optimal benefit from the persistent activity of the product for grazing animals, it is recommended that calves which are set-stocked in the first grazing season should be treated 3, 8 and 13 weeks after the day of turn-out. This can protect the animals from parasitic gastroenteritis and lungworm disease throughout the grazing season, provided they are set-stocked, all the calves included in the programme and that no untreated cattle are added to the pasture. Treated animals should always be monitored according to good husbandry practices.

if you found levafas "hard" on cattle and had dosed at correct rate it is more than likely it was doing it's job and your stock were carrying a heavy burden of infection

hugo29

Closamectin 6 weeks after housing always works for me

visatorro

couple of lads i know are having problems with using the same products for years. should try rotate products if possible.

TUBBY

Bimectin plus contains closuron so does fluke. I use this in combination with an azole based oral dose done first to allow slow death of burden with first dose. Then follow up with bimectin plus injection to kill out everything and also do for lice etc.
Find this approach much better than just uvermectin based only as ivermectin kills burden too quick and can bring on pneumonia in young stock.

Just my opinion and works well. Will go with levafas if symptoms are there afterwards.

Farmer Pudsey

Best dose at present for fluke is Fasinex Super. Will kill fluke from immature stage. You can uses as one dose 3 weeks after housing. One thing is cattle hate it make sure they have swallowed it. Have never seen cattle make such an attempt to get it back out.

Like any other oral wormer it kills them slowly however it seems to be a good product. It big adavantage is that it will give a good kill after 3 weeks housing most injections etc are 6 weeks plus and have withdrawal times of 70ish day. Fasinex has a withdrawal of 46.

At times of severe fluke you could oral dose with a cheaper product at housing or a few weeks before housing and use Fasinex for a complete kill.

One thing I came across lately is that Ivermectin pour-on kill both ticks and lice I am trying to find out if one application will kill all at housing or like other lice/tick application have you to follow up 2 weeks late disadvantage is withdrawal period.

All above are meat related

grange mac

What pour on options do I have for something like fasinex?

J.O. Farmer

The only pour on to immature fluke is closamectin. Closamectin has a combination of closantel (active ingredient flukiver) and ivermectin.
I would be careful with fasinex triclabendazole resistance in fluke has been found in some parts.
It's the best there is if it works if not your wasting your time.

Sharpshooter82

notice that 1 or 2 calves have very running dung and the others are solid. they got worm doses before they were housed and they are in about 5 weeks now. could this be fluke affecting the 2 calves

jomoloney

Sharpshooter82 wrote: »

notice that 1 or 2 calves have very running dung and the others are solid. they got worm doses before they were housed and they are in about 5 weeks now. could this be fluke affecting the 2 calves

maybe

but what worm dose did they get?

some don't cover for winter scours

Sharpshooter82

jomoloney wrote: »

maybe

but what worm dose did they get?

some don't cover for winter scours

cant remember as the vet gave them a quick jab the last time he was out

jomoloney

Sharpshooter82 wrote: »

cant remember as the vet gave them a quick jab the last time he was out

animal remedy records?

Sharpshooter82

jomoloney wrote: »

animal remedy records?

bimectium it was

Farmer Pudsey

J.O. Farmer wrote: »

The only pour on to immature fluke is closamectin. Closamectin has a combination of closantel (active ingredient flukiver) and ivermectin.
I would be careful with fasinex triclabendazole resistance in fluke has been found in some parts.
It's the best there is if it works if not your wasting your time.

Closmectin pour-on only kills late immature fluke, to get all fluke you need to wait 8 week after housing. Fasinex Super contains Triclabendazole at a higher rate that other products so it kills fluke at an earlier stage than any other product on the market. It is one thing at housing to delay dosing for three weeks when you stretch to 8 weeks you are feeding a lot of parasites for nothing.

The most important thing with dosing regardless of product is not to under dose. I would also think we should change products every few seasons.

On a health and safety point if using pour on make sure to wear rubber gloves, it is important with all doses but critical with pour-on's

jomoloney

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

On a health and safety point if using pour on make sure to wear rubber gloves, it is important with all doses but critical with pour-on's

even more important to wear googles

last time i used a pour on a very small fly went into my eye, it must have off the animal's back which was just treated & I finished in the eye and ear hospital

delaval

Is there an injection or pouron that controls fluke and worms in pregnant dairy animals?

Approved for pregnant dairy cows

hugo29

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

Closmectin pour-on only kills late immature fluke, to get all fluke you need to wait 8 week after housing. Fasinex Super contains Triclabendazole at a higher rate that other products so it kills fluke at an earlier stage than any other product on the market. It is one thing at housing to delay dosing for three weeks when you stretch to 8 weeks you are feeding a lot of parasites for nothing.

The most important thing with dosing regardless of product is not to under dose. I would also think we should change products every few seasons.

On a health and safety point if using pour on make sure to wear rubber gloves, it is important with all doses but critical with pour-on's

is it not 5-6 weeks post housing for closamectin

Farmer Pudsey

hugo29 wrote: »

is it not 5-6 weeks post housing for closamectin

No to my understanding Closmectin injection and pour-on works on Late immature fluke at 7 Weeks. However it is only 50%-90% effective. Below is a link to Closmectin telling us it is effective from 7 Weeks however you have to go 10-11 weeks before it is over 90% effective
http://www.norbrook.com/closamectin/pour_on_for_cattle/easy_solution

Below is a link that if you scroll down through you will see the effectivness of different flukicide. Closantel is not as effective until after week 10. Triclabendazole is effective from housing but a total kill is got after 3 weeks. I would not be using the same product all the time but would change products after3-4 years.

http://www.scops.org.uk/endoparasites-liver-fluke.html

TBH Closmectin sales reps are spinning people ayarn about this product do not get me wrong it is a good product but not as effective as people think. IF I was using it I would use after 2-3 weeks and then use it or Albendazol/Oxyclozanide at 12 weeks after housing. However it is a expensive product. The sales reps are spinning a yarn about it and how effective it is.

In my opinion If I was using closantel ( and I have used it I think you need to use it twice. I would consider an Ivermectin injection at housing along with an flukiver injection (half the price) and an Albex type product 10-12 weeks after housing.

The easy expensive option is not always the best.

J.O. Farmer

Closmectin pour-on only kills late immature fluke, to get all fluke you need to wait 8 week after housing.
Fasinex Super contains Triclabendazole at a higher rate that other products so it kills fluke at an earlier stage than any other product on the market. It is one thing at housing to delay dosing for three weeks when you stretch to 8 weeks you are feeding a lot of parasites for nothing.

I believe that closamectin is still the only pour on to kill immature fluke. While it does take until 6-8 weeks after housing to kill all fluke if you want a pour on the others on the market only kill mature fluke. The like of ivomec super pour on contain clorsulon which means you have to wait 12 weeks.
As I said triclabendazole is the best there is if there is no resistance on your farm. However if resistance is present a higher concentration won't work.
With other products you could give a bigger dose and get the same effect unless Fasinex is formulated for better absorption into the blood. Really blood plasma concentration of the active ingredient is what is important not the concentration in the bottle.

J.O. Farmer

delaval wrote: »

Is there an injection or pouron that controls fluke and worms in pregnant dairy animals?

Approved for pregnant dairy cows

I am not aware of a flukicide pour on. For worms and external parasites an eprinomectin based pour on can be used such as eprizero or eprinex. Both these have a zero milk withdrawal.

limo_100

Im going to dose the stock in the slatted shed next week would i be better to use lavafas diamond (as it kill fluke and worms) or would i be better off using zanil and ivomec pour on? to kill both aswell? note i will also be injecting them with trodex in januray to get a 100% fluke kill

J.O. Farmer

I would probably go with levafas diamond. The fluke component is the same as zanil. The difference then is the wormer. Levafas diamond will treat those ivomec will do lice though too.
I would look at the cattle and the hair. If they don't appear to be scratching they probably haven't lice.
If you're using a drench then why not inject and cut the cost of the pour on. How about ivomec super for fluke and worms. 1 injection doing the same as zanil and ivomec pour on. You will still need to use trodax as the products mentioned only kill mature fluke.

limo_100

J.O. Farmer wrote: »

I would probably go with levafas diamond. The fluke component is the same as zanil. The difference then is the wormer. Levafas diamond will treat those ivomec will do lice though too.
I would look at the cattle and the hair. If they don't appear to be scratching they probably haven't lice.
If you're using a drench then why not inject and cut the cost of the pour on. How about ivomec super for fluke and worms. 1 injection doing the same as zanil and ivomec pour on. You will still need to use trodax as the products mentioned only kill mature fluke.

they dont seem to have lice yet anyway. are you sure levafas does lice?? I will either use ivomec super or trodax in January to try and get a high kill from of fluke and worms. The reason im using the ivomec super now is i want to hit the rumen fluke aswel

greysides

J.O. Farmer wrote: »

I would probably go with levafas diamond. The fluke component is the same as zanil. The difference then is the wormer. Levafas diamond will treat those ivomec will do lice though too.

Levafas Diamond Fluke and Worm Drench is not effective against Type II Ostertagiasis (winter scours) in cattle.

Housing doses need to be effective against type II (Inhibited) larvae.

I would look at the cattle and the hair. If they don't appear to be scratching they probably haven't lice.

My view is they all have lice, the only question is how many. You can do them now while they are in relatively small numbers or later after reduced weight gain when you expect the same useless lice dressing to kill much greater numbers.................

These days lice dressings are much safer for human health. Lice health also.

J.O. Farmer

Sorry ivomec will treat lice levafas diamond won't. If you want to get rumen fluke you will need to use either levafas diamond or Zanil.
If you don't have lice then levafas diamond would be a little less work and less cost and I think similar results to using a combination of ivomec and Zanil.

limo_100

i wonder how effective ivomec pour on is as apposed to the injection for killing worns say as a percentage

J.O. Farmer

They would have to be comparable. For the pour on to be approved for use it would have to get ivermectin to the same level in the blood stream as the injection. The amount of ivermectin in 1ml of the pour on will be higher than 1 ml of the injection to compensate for the difference in absorption into the blood.

O2b

Pricing up doses here. Anyone experience with endospec 10 drench?

Coming in at €.40 for dose of 300kg animal, cheap product if its any good.

Active ingredient is albendazole. Does immature worms and adult liver fluke. 14 day meat withdrawal.

biddy2013

O2b wrote: »

Pricing up doses here. Anyone experience with endospec 10 drench?

Coming in at €.40 for dose of 300kg animal, cheap product if its any good.

Active ingredient is albendazole. Does immature worms and adult liver fluke. 14 day meat withdrawal.

i use endospec sc 10% on dairy cows, find it grand, i know there was some one on here saying it wasnt great but i have had no problems yet

greysides

O2b wrote: »

Active ingredient is albendazole. Does immature worms and adult liver fluke. 14 day meat withdrawal.

There's your problem.

How long are the fluke in the animal before they are considered 'adult'?

To that answer add, what time of year will most fluke come into the animal?

Now see where you stand.

Marooned75

greysides wrote: »

There's your problem.

How long are the fluke in the animal before they are considered 'adult'?

To that answer add, what time of year will most fluke come into the animal?

Now see where you stand.

In about three weeks now going treating for lice,will do for fluke three weeks later(closamectin) and dose again a couple of weeks before turn out.Thats this years strategy

greysides

Marooned75 wrote: »

In about three weeks now going treating for lice,will do for fluke three weeks later(closamectin) and dose again a couple of weeks before turn out.Thats this years strategy

What's the last dose for?

Marooned75

Red water using bayticol has nearly eliminated problem here none in last year 1 year before don't take any chances especially with bought in stock.

J.O. Farmer

greysides wrote: »

There's your problem.

How long are the fluke in the animal before they are considered 'adult'?

To that answer add, what time of year will most fluke come into the animal?

Now see where you stand.

Fluke are in the animal I think 12 weeks by the time they become adults. At that stage they have most of their damage done migrating through the liver.
The peak time for fluke is September to maybe March but with the wetter summers the snails needed for the fluke to complete its life cycle are prevalent earlier making the risk period longer.

greysides

J.O. Farmer wrote: »

Fluke are in the animal I think 12 weeks by the time they become adults. At that stage they have most of their damage done migrating through the liver.
The peak time for fluke is September to maybe March but with the wetter summers the snails needed for the fluke to complete its life cycle are prevalent earlier making the risk period longer.

So dosing now with a flukicide that only kills adults is killing the fluke that went into the animals before three months ago, mid-Sept................with most fluke being available to the animals on grass from Sept onwards.......... so killing ~ 2 weeks worth of fluke and missing the vast majority............

J.O. Farmer

Regardless of the numbers the important point is that it is the immature fluke which do most damage. While the adult fluke will cause a parasite burden they have relocated to the bile ducts and stay there in general. It is migrating immature fluke which destroy the liver.
That said you'd be right in saying the adult fluke were picked up in September. As for the numbers that will vary from farm to farm and in wet land fluke could be picked up right through the summer. This year wasn't bad but last year I would imagine was bad. Also egg counts are of very limited value as a lot of fluke can be present with no eggs.
The only way to know about fluke levels is to check livers in animals that have been slaughtered.

greysides

J.O. Farmer wrote: »

Regardless of the numbers the important point is that it is the immature fluke which do most damage. While the adult fluke will cause a parasite burden they have relocated to the bile ducts and stay there in general. It is migrating immature fluke which destroy the liver.

Yes, the migrating fluke do a lot of damage. This causes what is termed 'Acute Fluke'. It is a killer of sheep, often sudden and unexpected.

The adults in the bile ducts are more of a drain on resources, grazing on the inner lining of the ducts and consuming blood. They cause what's termed 'Chronic Fluke', a slow wasting condition. This affects sheep too and is really the only form that affects cattle (they have a greater natural resistance to fluke).

It's important in choosing the dose to try to kill as many stages of fluke as possible as, naturally enough, any missed immatures will later become mature, causing anaemia/hypoproteinaemia/oedema and seeding the fields with further eggs to continue the cycle.

TopCon

Used closamectin pour on 2 weeks post housing bullocks.
Now almost due second round with Zanil 8 weeks after the first dose for complete kill.
Don't normally use Zanil but I got caught up in the hype of rumen fluke this year so already bought it.
The oral dose is a lot of extra work with cattle.

The reason I do so early is to start the fluke treatment quickly. With all stock bought in here throughout the year can't afford under performing cattle. Less of a burden too I find if done in 2 stages. The extra few euro on treatment is small comparing to carrying cattle and getting no thrive.