Any comeback buying a stolen car after online car check?

tomgaa · 07-12-2013 2:59pm #1

basically i bought a stolen car, i did the online car check with cartell and everything came back clear.... now i know there is pretty much nothing i can do... but if thats the case what is the point of checking online then before you buy a car????

debabyjesus · 07-12-2013 3:04pm

Ouch. Im sure those cartell reports have a sly line somewhere absolving them of any blame if things go wrong.

I'd say the only protection from buying a stolen yoke is to see id of the person selling it and name matches on log book. Did they have a tax book when you bought it?

bazz26 · 07-12-2013 3:15pm

How did you find out it was stolen?

colm_mcm · 07-12-2013 3:18pm

Did the car match the logbook?

Gumbo · 07-12-2013 3:20pm

Most likely the current fake draft scam.

I buy car today using fake draft.
I sell car tomorrow for cheap cash.

By the time the original owner realises the draft is fake and then the car is reported stolen, the new owner only finds out the following week!

tomgaa · 07-12-2013 3:25pm

Yes the log book matched the car, as did the online check match the plates and car description,

Service history was with the car, rang the last garage that serviced it, and it checke out

Change of ownership was with the car. The guy I was buying it from used a false bank draft to buy it from the last owner, rang the owner but got put through to his secretary and she confirmed he owned the car car but never said if it had been stolen or sold.

Just got a bit curious after I bought it, dnt ask me y, and got my friend who's a gaurd to check the plates and he told me it was stolen early n the week...... So iv no car and no money......

FearDark · 07-12-2013 3:27pm

I may be very stupid here but is it not the problem of the original owner? For his own stupidity he seems to have gotten his car back.

tomgaa · 07-12-2013 3:30pm

FearDark wrote: »

I may be very stupid here but is it not the problem of the original owner? For his own stupidity he seems to have gotten his car back.

Look he owns the car at the end of the day I suppose, he gets his car back but I dnt gt my money back!!!

daRobot · 07-12-2013 3:32pm

Sorry to hear it, that's a seriously low scam to to pull on someone, and hopefully they'll get what's coming to them.

How much did you lose?

tomgaa · 07-12-2013 3:35pm

daRobot wrote: »

Sorry to hear it, that's a seriously low scam to to pull on someone, and hopefully they'll get what's coming to them.

How much did you lose?

7k

bazz26 · 07-12-2013 3:36pm

Ouch.

daRobot · 07-12-2013 3:47pm

That must really be hurting. Whatever about insurance scams etc, these things targeting private individuals are truly the lowest of the low.

Obviously you'll have been through this with the
Gardia, but do you think there's a chance of finding this guy?

Supergurrier · 07-12-2013 3:57pm

Similar thing happened to a local guy.

Went to the big smoke to buy car with daughter. All good but he seemed to be on phone every few minutes. Then cash was handed over he was sat in car ready to sign the logbook and suddenly speeds off.

Nasty business

Kenny Logins · 07-12-2013 3:57pm

FearDark wrote: »

I may be very stupid here but is it not the problem of the original owner? For his own stupidity he seems to have gotten his car back.

Yeah, I was thinking that too. Doesn't seem fair, the OP did nothing wrong here.

daRobot · 07-12-2013 4:08pm

Kenny Logins wrote: »

Yeah, I was thinking that too. Doesn't seem fair, the OP did nothing wrong here.

Two people have been robbed here, but unfortunately only the property of one is recoverable.

pred racer · 07-12-2013 4:12pm

daRobot wrote: »

Two people have been robbed here, but unfortunately only the property of one is recoverable.

Exactly, so surely the OP should be able to claim on his own insurance as the property he paid for was taken from him!

Btw I know already the answer is No!

Supergurrier · 07-12-2013 4:17pm

Surely the name on logbook wasn't changed over that soon.

Did you check ID against name on logbook

DIESEL TOM · 07-12-2013 4:23pm

tomgaa wrote: »

Yes the log book matched the car, as did the online check match the plates and car description,

Service history was with the car, rang the last garage that serviced it, and it checke out

Change of ownership was with the car. The guy I was buying it from used a false bank draft to buy it from the last owner, rang the owner but got put through to his secretary and she confirmed he owned the car car but never said if it had been stolen or sold.

Just got a bit curious after I bought it, dnt ask me y, and got my friend who's a gaurd to check the plates and he told me it was stolen early n the week...... So iv no car and no money......

you will never know but the last owner could be in with the scam ?

tomgaa · 07-12-2013 4:25pm

Yes the guards are confident of catching this guy,....... The log book was still n the name of the last owner because this guy had robbed the car 2 days befor I bought it... And he was trading as a garage and also had the change if owner ship form.

I actually rang the owner last nite who's number I got from the form, and he said that when he went into aib they said that this was the best fraud brand draft that they had ever seen!!!

neilaccountant · 07-12-2013 4:26pm

sorry to hear about that OP

hopefully something can be done about it

Kenny Logins · 07-12-2013 4:30pm

daRobot wrote: »

Two people have been robbed here, but unfortunately only the property of one is recoverable.

...and one person is paying for another's stupidity unfortunately.

DIESEL TOM · 07-12-2013 4:39pm

tomgaa wrote: »

And he was trading as a garage and also had the change if owner ship form.

what made you believe he was trading as a garage ?.

tomgaa · 07-12-2013 4:45pm

DIESEL TOM wrote: »

what made you believe he was trading as a garage ?.

It's just wat he said, and also it was what was down on the change of ownership form. That's all. He was down as the receiver of the car and was down as wyse motors ltd.

SCOOP 64 · 07-12-2013 4:47pm

hope something can be done for you op, this is a s**t thing to rob someone of 7k,:mad: how did you pay for it cash/cheque?

tomgaa · 07-12-2013 4:49pm

SCOOP 64 wrote: »

hope something can be done for you op, this is a s**t thing to rob someone of 7k,:mad: how did you pay for it cash/cheque?

Oh me being the brains that I am ...... Cash!!

SCOOP 64 · 07-12-2013 4:54pm

tomgaa wrote: »

Oh me being the brains that I am ...... Cash!!

But it seems to me you done everything you could to check the car out, even more then some people would do, seems like a well planned con,were did the meet take place?

corktina · 07-12-2013 4:55pm

I feel your pain....a hard way to learn a lesson, could easily have been any one of us. :-(

DIESEL TOM · 07-12-2013 4:56pm

tomgaa wrote: »

It's just wat he said, and also it was what was down on the change of ownership form. That's all. He was down as the receiver of the car and was down as wyse motors ltd.

people will say anything when it come to money. did you even ask for id ete driving licence

kevin65 · 07-12-2013 5:06pm

OP, sorry to hear about your situation. Hopefully you will recover some/all your money.

I always thought that bank drafts were a safe way of receiving payment, but is it the case now that you can't trust them? It's not very safe walking around with a few thousand in cash.

Atlantic Dawn · 07-12-2013 5:10pm

So you gave €7k to someone who wasn't the owner on the logbook? Would this not have been the first thing to check to verify ownership check his passport or driving licence?

Sorry to hear of your loss, so many ways people can be ripped off, it's a minefield out there.

Atlantic Dawn · 07-12-2013 5:12pm

SCOOP 64 wrote: »

But it seems to me you done everything you could to check the car out, even more then some people would do, seems like a well planned con,were did the meet take place?

Didn't verify name on logbook was seller, this is the problem. Also it should raise alarm bells somone selling a car as an unofficial trader they just picked up a couple days previously.

SCOOP 64 · 07-12-2013 5:20pm

If he was selling as trader ,log book wouldnt be in his name anyway would it?
seems very short time from, stolen, to advertise, to sale?

Guy:Incognito · 07-12-2013 5:30pm

Did the price fall in to the " too good to be true" catagory?

Marcusm · 07-12-2013 5:31pm

tomgaa wrote: »

Look he owns the car at the end of the day I suppose, he gets his car back but I dnt gt my money back!!!

You need to find a solicitor and before you see them google "bona fide purchaser for value without notice". I hope you haven't handed the car over.

SCOOP 64 · 07-12-2013 5:32pm

Ops only hope that hes caught with some cash on him, but sad to say highly unlikely.

Marcusm · 07-12-2013 5:35pm

Provided the OP paid a fair price for the car and was unaware of the fraud (note not theft, the car was not stolen), the law will recognise him as the owner.

SCOOP 64 · 07-12-2013 5:36pm

Marcusm wrote: »

You need to find a solicitor and before you see them google "bona fide purchaser for value without notice". I hope you haven't handed the car over.

Were would the guards stand on this, would he be asked to return it to owner on log book?

The Glass Key · 07-12-2013 5:40pm

Marcusm wrote: »

Provided the OP paid a fair price for the car and was unaware of the fraud (note not theft, the car was not stolen), the law will recognise him as the owner.

I also can't see how the OP doesn't own the car. The original owner was defrauded and is now owed money by the buyer but the car wasn't stolen.

SCOOP 64 · 07-12-2013 5:45pm

So if the op told Guards nothing, changed log into his name,tax and insure it,
pretending to be none the wiser, would the original owner have to take the lost,
or would hes insurance company demand car back from op?

tomgaa · 07-12-2013 5:56pm

I couldn't see how I could be the owner of the car!!

Yes I had to hand the car over because my cousin who is the guard who checked the plates for me said I have to turn the car into my local station!!

A few people have said to me that the last owner did turn over the papers in exchange for a fake bank draft and because I then bought it from the "thief" that it could be mine now!! But the guards n the station did say that it wasn'tt mine to own so I really do not know how I stand there!!!

djimi · 07-12-2013 6:01pm

You may need to contact a solicitor here. The original owner was defrauded; the car was not stolen as such (ie the original owner let it go with their consent). A solicitor should be able to clarify the situation for you.

Marcusm · 07-12-2013 6:01pm

tomgaa wrote: »

I couldn't see how I could be the owner of the car!!

Yes I had to hand the car over because my cousin who is the guard who checked the plates for me said I have to turn the car into my local station!!

A few people have said to me that the last owner did turn over the papers in exchange for a fake bank draft and because I then bought it from the "thief" that it could be mine now!! But the guards n the station did say that it wasn'tt mine to own so I really do not know how I stand there!!!

I REPEAT you need to speak with a solicitor; you can't get legal advice here. However, you have the stronger claim to the car. The guards are not experts in the law and frankly have no authority to decide who takes possession of the car - that is a matter for a court. They can seize a car they suspect to be involved in a crime (still not theft but fraud) but should not hand it over to anyone. Your claim for the car would be in doubt if the car had been reported stolen and you'd been informed of this, or if the vendor did not have the VLC or if the price was too good to be true. Absent facts such as these, a Nona fide purchaser for value gets good title to property even if the person selling did not own it.

Don't hesitate or you'll be at the loss if 7k.

Grimreaper666 · 07-12-2013 6:07pm

In my view possession is nine tenths of the law, you payed fair and square for the car. The guard should not have got involved in this as it was fraud between the original owner and the guy who bought the car from him.
Who's to say the original owner and the guy who sold you the car weren't in this together? Sounds like the perfect crime to me tbh.

Kenny Logins · 07-12-2013 6:10pm

Have to agree, I wouldn't hand it over either. It wasn't stolen in the traditional sense.

tomgaa · 07-12-2013 6:13pm

Grimreaper666 wrote: »

In my view possession is nine tenths of the law, you payed fair and square for the car. The guard should not have got involved in this as it was fraud between the original owner and the guy who bought the car from him.
Who's to say the original owner and the guy who sold you the car weren't in this together? Sounds like the perfect crime to me tbh.

Ok I think I will get advice from solicitor on this just to c where I stand, Altho I do feel like a c**t doing this!! Also I did hand the car over to the guards as that's wat my Garda cousin told me do

Kenny Logins · 07-12-2013 6:17pm

I wouldn't feel bad about it at all. Let the courts decide, until then the car is yours (IMHO of course).

Grimreaper666 · 07-12-2013 6:22pm

I was in a similar situation a few years ago where I sold a truck was paid by bank draft, truck was sold on in a hurry at a loss, bank draft bounced, went to guards who told me I had no come back and it was a civil matter between me and the guy who bought it from me, end of story. Checked with my solicitor, same story. Sorry OP but I reckon you should have kept the car regardless of what the guard said. I'd rarely take a guards opinion on anything legal tbh as in lots of cases they won't do you any favours.

mickdw · 07-12-2013 6:27pm

Can the OP via solicitor insist that the car is held by gardai and not returned to original owner until this plays out fully?
For what its worth, there were warning signs with this deal.

angelfire9 · 07-12-2013 6:29pm

Ah lads get real
The OP got stung
The original owner (let's call him Mr Jones) sold the car to the thief (Let's call him Mr Murphy)
Murphy "sold" the car to the OP
BUT given that the car wasn't actually Murphys to sell the sale is invalid
(The title did not pass legally)
Therefore the car has to be returned to Mr Jones

It's the same principal as someone who sells on a car that has outstanding finance on it the car belongs to the finance company even if it is registered to a business or individual

http://chestofbooks.com/business/law/Handbook-Of-The-Law-Of-Sale-Of-Goods/41-Sale-By-Person-Without-Title.html#.UqNolssgGSM

Sorry OP even if the Gardaí catch this scum it's doubtful you will see your 7k again
Pity you didn't pay him by draft

djimi · 07-12-2013 6:29pm

tomgaa wrote: »

Ok I think I will get advice from solicitor on this just to c where I stand, Altho I do feel like a c**t doing this!! Also I did hand the car over to the guards as that's wat my Garda cousin told me do

Get back onto the Gardai and advise them that you are seeking legal advice on your position, and until you have spoken to a solicitor you do not want the car handed back to the original owner.

If they say anything then maybe outline your concerns over the possibility that the original owner was involved with the seller.

Grimreaper666 · 07-12-2013 6:31pm

mickdw wrote: »

Can the OP via solicitor insist that the car is held by gardai and not returned to original owner until this plays out fully?
For what its worth, there were warning signs with this deal.

Good point but it's a civil matter between the original owner and the guy who bought it from him. OP bought the car and shouldn't really have handed it over to anyone. Technically the OP has no case to answer it's the original seller is the one who should have lost out.

Any comeback buying a stolen car after online car check?

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