Revenue Requesting money

Bananaleaf

Hi there

I'm sorry if this is in the wrong place, but I'm just looking for help with some correspondence I received from the revenue this evening.

It's a request for an Underpayment of USC for the tax year 2011.

The letter states that

"The Revenue Commissioners are carrying out a review of Universal Social Charge deducted for the 2011 tax year.

According to our records, you have an underpayment of €627.43 for this period. The underpayment arose as you had more than one employment in the tax year 2011 and the correct amount of USC was not deducted from all your employments in this year"

The letter then proceeds to tell me that I have 21 days to pay.

My question is - Is it possible that they have got this wrong?

• The calculation of my Gross pay for that year, according to them is 52K. I can tell you that as a secondary teacher on point 3 of the scale, that is NOT my salary.
  
• Also, I didn't have 2 employments. And what does that mean? That I had two jobs at the same time or that I had two different employers during that year. I did have two different employers in 2010 - is that the 2011 tax year? sorry if that sounds ridiculous

I am going to call them on Monday but I would really like some feedback on this now if possible. I was supposed to be going shopping for presents tomorrow but obviously won't be doing that with this hanging over my head.

I am totally shocked and upset by this letter. I completed a very detailed green form for the revenue last year and was actually told I was OWED money. I was delighted and was totally confident that my tax records were in order.

Thank you for any help you can give me
Bananaleaf

johnnyskeleton

I'm afraid you will have to speak to a solicitor or, more likely, an accountant.

I can tell you that two employments in the 2011 tax year means two separate employers between 1/1/2011 and 31/12/2011.

I can probably also tell you that revenue give you a very narrow window to appeal such a decision so you're right to get your skates on with this.

Best of luck

Bananaleaf

Okay, thank you for your help. Hopefully they have made a mistake.

Bananaleaf

Just checked the pay scale online. I would have to be on point 17 of the scale to have earned what they said I did, so surely this will be straightforward enough to get settled with the use of my p60 for that year. Surely I won't need an accountant or a solicitor.

Will they listen to me do you think?

Peppa Pig

The first thing to do is to ring the revenue on Monday morning and explain to them what you have posted here. the revenue do make mistakes occasionally but in my experience the people on the phones are very helpful. If it's their fault then they will rectify it straight away.

If you have made the mistake (unlikely by the sound of things) they will arrange repayment of the underpayment, usually through adjusting your tax cert next year, they are very unlikely to ask for it all in one go.

20-30 years ago it was torture to ring the revenue, now they are very approachable to ordinary PAYE workers. I have used revenue on line for years and it is very easy to see what is going on from year to year.

Ken.

You say you're a teacher, Do teachers get let go for the summer months and rehired in September?. Could that explain 2 employments?.
Did you pick up a summer job for the summer holidays maybe?
Or could it be like teachers in Kildare town. First half of 2012 they were employed by one of 3 secondary schools. Second half of 2012 the new school was finished and all the pupils and teachers moved to the amalgamated school so I presume their pay slips have a new name on them.

Bananaleaf

Thanks for your help and replies.

PeppaPig, thanks for your help I will be calling them straight away.

Ken - this is actually something I hadn't thought of so thank you. However, I am paid for the summer therefore not let go during it. I would have corrected mock exams for one week in 2011 but the amount of pay for that was about €150, so that obviously wouldn't bring my wage up to 50k.

Our VECs did amalgamate actually, but that happened this year. We are in Meath which is now Meath/Louth.

Is it possible that the company I did the mock corrections for - that I have somehow been accidentally or incorrectly named as a full time employee of that company and that would explain the supposed 52k salary.?

Thank you so much for your replies.

angelfire9

If you have all your payslips from all employments in the relevant tax year sit down and add them all up
And go into your local revenue office with all paperwork P60's, payslips P45 if appropriate and they will go through it all with you
They won't ask you to pay over the €600 in one go (unless you want to) will more than likely adjust your tax credits for 2014 instead
Be aware there is a scam going round with emails purporting to be from revenue asking for bank details for a refund that's due or an underpayment you must make to their bank :rolleyes:
Don't panic you don't need an accountant it's a relatively small amount to have underplayed USC by €600+ you'd have had to earn big money so its more than likely an error

Best of luck

Bananaleaf

Thank you.

I will call them tomorrow and get the ball rolling at least.

Thanks for your advice

rsta

Did you call the revenue?
I hope they sort it out for you!

Bananaleaf

Hi there

So I called the Revenue today and I suppose the issue is kind of sorted ....

So it turns out that my salary is slightly higher than I thought to begin with. On top of that add 4k to my Gross Pay and that apparently brings you to your Gross USC pay (because apparently our Gross Pay is less pensions deducted but our USC takes that into account)

And probably the biggest oversight on my part was that I had forgotten that I was given a lump sum by my previous employer (from period 2007 - 2010) because I was never moved up the incremental scale and was therefore owed backdated pay. Easy to forget really, because the 'lump sum' was very small once they took their 42% of it.

However, this is the bit that I feel is still unresolved. This pay in question was pay for work that was carried out PRE-USC. The USC came into effect from 01 Jan 2011. This money was paid to me in Dec '11 but was for hours worked between Sep '07 and Oct '10.

I explained this to the guy on the phone and while he could see my point completely he told me he was 95% sure that there was a clause stating that any monies paid from 2011 onwards was liable for this tax.

I asked him to query this, which he is going to. In the meantime I am also going to get on to my union to see if there is a way out of this.

I then told him that I wouldn't have the €627 in 21 days. He was totally fine about this, BUT they apparently cannot adjust tax credits for this as it is not a TAX per se, but a SOCIAL CHARGE. And it can only be payable by cheque, bank draft or transfer. So it seems they are after the hard cash. They can structure a payment plan for me which is good, but I do have to admit I feel pretty screwed over considering if I had gotten this money when I was supposed to I wouldn't have had to pay this tax (I know, it would be gone by now anyway though!)

So the saga continues for another while I guess, but I'm pretty resigned to paying it at this stage.

Ken.

I wonder if your name is in here:D
http://www.rte.ie/news/business/2013/1210/492006-revenue-tax-defaulters/

http://www.revenue.ie/en/press/defaulters/index.html

angelfire9

Bananaleaf wrote: »

Hi there

So I called the Revenue today and I suppose the issue is kind of sorted ....

So it turns out that my salary is slightly higher than I thought to begin with. On top of that add 4k to my Gross Pay and that apparently brings you to your Gross USC pay (because apparently our Gross Pay is less pensions deducted but our USC takes that into account)

And probably the biggest oversight on my part was that I had forgotten that I was given a lump sum by my previous employer (from period 2007 - 2010) because I was never moved up the incremental scale and was therefore owed backdated pay. Easy to forget really, because the 'lump sum' was very small once they took their 42% of it.

However, this is the bit that I feel is still unresolved. This pay in question was pay for work that was carried out PRE-USC. The USC came into effect from 01 Jan 2011. This money was paid to me in Dec '11 but was for hours worked between Sep '07 and Oct '10.

I explained this to the guy on the phone and while he could see my point completely he told me he was 95% sure that there was a clause stating that any monies paid from 2011 onwards was liable for this tax.

I asked him to query this, which he is going to. In the meantime I am also going to get on to my union to see if there is a way out of this.

I then told him that I wouldn't have the €627 in 21 days. He was totally fine about this, BUT they apparently cannot adjust tax credits for this as it is not a TAX per se, but a SOCIAL CHARGE. And it can only be payable by cheque, bank draft or transfer. So it seems they are after the hard cash. They can structure a payment plan for me which is good, but I do have to admit I feel pretty screwed over considering if I had gotten this money when I was supposed to I wouldn't have had to pay this tax (I know, it would be gone by now anyway though!)

So the saga continues for another while I guess, but I'm pretty resigned to paying it at this stage.

I would be of the opinion that you cant be charged USC on earnings earned pre 2011
I will take a root through the stuff i got from Revenue about the USC when it was commenced
Its kinda time to get an accountant now if you intend to dispute the amount
How much of the €600 is down to the pre 2011 Lump sum though and how much of it is rightfully due?
An accountant could charge you the amount you are looking to save

Draco

While you may have performed the work to earn the money pre-2011, tax and levies are only applied when you actually receive the money. So yes, you do have to pay the USC on that amount. The flip side to this is is there had been a cut in any of the rates, you'd had been ahead.

rsta

Bananaleaf wrote: »

.....
However, this is the bit that I feel is still unresolved. This pay in question was pay for work that was carried out PRE-USC. The USC came into effect from 01 Jan 2011. This money was paid to me in Dec '11 but was for hours worked between Sep '07 and Oct '10.

I explained this to the guy on the phone and while he could see my point completely he told me he was 95% sure that there was a clause stating that any monies paid from 2011 onwards was liable for this tax.

I asked him to query this, which he is going to. In the meantime I am also going to get on to my union to see if there is a way out of this.

I then told him that I wouldn't have the €627 in 21 days. He was totally fine about this, BUT they apparently cannot adjust tax credits for this as it is not a TAX per se, but a SOCIAL CHARGE. And it can only be payable by cheque, bank draft or transfer. So it seems they are after the hard cash. They can structure a payment plan for me which is good, but I do have to admit I feel pretty screwed over considering if I had gotten this money when I was supposed to I wouldn't have had to pay this tax (I know, it would be gone by now anyway though!)

.

I work in payroll, and he is right about that. It doesn't matter that the money should have been paid in 07 or 10, it still gets taxed at the rates for the year in which you are physically paid,so unfortunately you pay USC even if its back monies.

You could actually request a p21 balancing statement for the past 4-5 years in the hope that you may be due a tax refund? And that could go to pay off the owed USC.
Although, if you've underpaid tax then youl owe them more :pac: