Kilkee 2014

bryangiggsy

Kilkee entry a lottery next year according to the fb page

bopperr

odd one. Hardly broken (or is it) so why change it.

Id imagine the demand will be high but you should still be heavy odds on to get a spot. Always a good chance of a transfer as well.

smcgui

Oooh not too happy about this, would have preferred the first come first served method

littlemsfickle

A lottery for the National Championships??? To be fair the last couple of years have pretty much been that in all but name but surely if they were going to change the system there should be some sort of provision for setting aside a limited number of qualifying spots? This seems like a poor decision to me, but interested to hear what others think......Peter Kearn?

smcgui

bopperr wrote: »

odd one. Hardly broken (or is it) so why change it.

Id imagine the demand will be high but you should still be heavy odds on to get a spot. Always a good chance of a transfer as well.

I'd imagine if they are doing a lottery system then transfer won't be allowed, any unused entries would go back into a lottery system?

sconhome

This is not right.

catweazle

I know plenty of so called lotteries - that are lotteries in all but name

I would be very surprised if someone like Kevin Thornton or Gavin Noble lose out in this lottery.

Lets hope its a way of ensuring that most of the regular entrants that compete every year (me ) don't miss out to the first time entrant

littlemsfickle

catweazle wrote: »

I would be very surprised if someone like Kevin Thornton or Gavin Noble lose out in this lottery.

So in what way would they get a place? How many entries would be set aside for people like this and what would be the criteria for getting a guaranteed place? If everyone else has to go through a lottery what makes them entitled to an entry?

For someone planning their year around National Champs with hopes of getting on the podium it seems ridiculous that they might get ruled out of competing on the basis of pure luck.

peter kern

limerick tri ,like the ballycotton 10 miler have always done the right thing for competetive athletes (may i haste to say for every athlete) as long as i can remember and for this reason kilkee in my mind the very best race to have the nat champs.


Generally I would suggest that for nat champs that you are guaranteed a place if you had 560 (male) and (500) female NS points the previous year nat series or podium place in a nat series race in the previous 15 month or a top 30 place in a nat champ race in the last 2 years .

littlemsfickle wrote: »

A lottery for the National Championships??? To be fair the last couple of years have pretty much been that in all but name but surely if they were going to change the system there should be some sort of provision for setting aside a limited number of qualifying spots? This seems like a poor decision to me, but interested to hear what others think......Peter Kearn?

catweazle

littlemsfickle wrote: »

So in what way would they get a place? How many entries would be set aside for people like this and what would be the criteria for getting a guaranteed place? If everyone else has to go through a lottery what makes them entitled to an entry?

For someone planning their year around National Champs with hopes of getting on the podium it seems ridiculous that they might get ruled out of competing on the basis of pure luck.

Have they outlined the method in which this lottery will take place, all I see is pre-register and then a lottery the following month to grant these places. Perhaps I am being unfair to them but unless I see someone from the National lottery office standing beside them I doubt and actually hope that they do look at each individual registration and use some type of criteria to award them a place or not. Perhaps certain entrants will not even make the pot in the first place

Its a lottery as it is currently is anyways with the fastest finger on the day getting in, its easy to buck the current system anyways by going through the active log in rather than the Limerick website and block booking entrants before they even go online anyways

I will eat my hat Little Miss if someone like yourself or any other podium contender fails to get in, its more mid packers like myself thats in danger here so I would hope they would run a search through their previous years and see i am a regular entrant rather than a Johnny come lately

RacoonQueen

They should have qualifying entry for people like to podium (top 10) with everyone else going into the lottery if they're doing a lottery.
Would be a bit bizarre if the top x ladies all failed to get in and an average athlete becomes national champ, with the smaller number of women entering than this could very easily happen.

mossym

this is a b&lls to be be honest. Won't complain too much as it would have been my first time doing HOTW, and a lot here have done a few and deserve their spot more.

but it was to be my target race for the year, and a quick glance at the TI calendar doesn't suggest any suitable alternatives anywhere close to the HOTW weekend. Not getting in could force a rethink of the whole season

tunney

So basically it is NOT the national championships.

The best in an AG and the best overall may well not be in the race.

Ah well thats the NC and the NS completely meaningless then.

mossym

tunney wrote: »

The best in an AG and the best overall may well not be in the race.

the lottery system could be run in a way that ensures the top guys are. not really a lottery then, but you could argue this is a way to ensure the top racers are at the NC. i've no idea if that's what their intention is though

TriWazza

Hate to agree with tunney but he's right. Terrible terrible decision.

El Director

Decided to prioritise NC races this year as I feel that this is where it is at, high quality fields and taken seriously and due respect given to the best in the land. Kilkee was to be one of my A races. This totally goes against what a National Championship race stands for and IF you do get in then there should be an * beside the 2014 National Olympic distance winner.

What a shame.

tunney

My TI card arrived yesterday. Included in it were some excellent and professional leaflets.

Thought "wow, maybe I've been too harsh"

And then this.

johnruns

Does anyone know that when TI awarded the Nat Champs to this race they knew it was going to be a lottery to enter?

Huff n Puff

I would consider myself one of Kilkee's (and the Limerick Tri Clubs) biggest cheerleaders but this is madness (if they go ahead with it). I am not sure what the thinking is behind a move like this.

How can this be a legal entry requirement for a National Championship race? Who would want to win this type of race?

Is this something Triathlon Ireland are OK with? a comment from one of their representatives would be appreciated - just to clarify the matter.

Its not that hard at all to enter - if you are determined to enter you will always get in. The people that are determined to enter a race are typically the ones that take triathlon a little bit more serious = exactly what you want for a National Championships = I don't see a problem, so why create one?!! Either move to some sort of standards based selection criteria for the NC or keep as is (first come first served).

Being selfish, this race acted as our club away race each year and now that < 50% of our club that apply will get in, the desire to stay over in Kilkee will be greatly diminished for us.

I really hate the way this sport is going sometimes.

RacoonQueen

This is our club champ race as well Shane so this would be a huge disappointment as our party race for us.

Be interesting to see how many enter this are on one day licenses and if you could just say full TI members only for entry rather than a lottery. Assuming ODL entries take up a good % of slots?

tunney

I nominated DCT as the unofficial-but-proper National Champs.

TriWazza

Again hate to agree with tunney

Huff and Puff summed up what many are feeling up and down the country. It devalues the national championships. I thought Athlone were bad last year not putting the main competitors in the same wave but this is nonsense stuff.

Surely as members we could force an EGM and force the organizers to normalize the entry process or worst case scenario strip Kilkee of the National Championships?

Article 15 of the constitution
15. The Directors may, whenever they think fit, convene an Extraordinary
General Meeting, and Extraordinary General Meetings shall also be convened by
such requisitions as provided by section 132 of the Act. If at any time there are
not within Ireland sufficient Directors capable of acting to form a quorum, any
Director may convene an Extraordinary General Meeting in the same manner as
nearly as possible as that in which meetings may be convened by the Directors.

Huff n Puff

TriWazza wrote: »

Surely as members we could force an EGM and force the organizers to normalize the entry process or worst case scenario strip Kilkee of the National Championships?

To be honest, I don't care enough to even consider an EGM. If Triathlon Ireland are ok with it then let them off. They are a good club and I am sure the race will be great. I just don't agree with the point of entry, simple as that.

Not sure why it has to go to a full lottery - could it not be first come first served for half and a lottery for the other half. Non-existent problem solved!

littlemsfickle

bryangiggsy wrote: »

Kilkee entry a lottery next year according to the fb page

frape?

Oryx

In terms of the politics of TI I'm an uninformed newby. But you can't, CAN'T have lottery entry for a championship race in any sport. It makes a nonsense of what is meant by 'championship'.

Has this been confirmed?

El Director

Oryx wrote: »

In terms of the politics of TI I'm an uninformed newby. But you can't, CAN'T have lottery entry for a championship race in any sport. It makes a nonsense of what is meant by 'championship'.

Has this been confirmed?

According to tweets from TI-they are looking into "the new entry method adopted...tonight"

RacoonQueen

From Facebook it seems that the challengers will get auto entry if they want it and the rest of us minions will be in a lottery.

Oryx

RacoonQueen wrote: »

From Facebook it seems that the challengers will get auto entry if they want it and the rest of us minions will be in a lottery.

How do they decide who the challengers are?

MrCreosote

RacoonQueen wrote: »

From Facebook it seems that the challengers will get auto entry if they want it and the rest of us minions will be in a lottery.

I think that is terribly unfair- should be same rule for all. Either lottery for everyone, or no one.

leidenlass

Hey guys, Kilkee race secretary here. We are implementing the lottery system in the hopes of improving the entry process for all genuine athletes. A number of issues have cropped up over the past few years that we want to address, specifically block booking of entries, people selling on their entries for above face-value and people entering for the goodie bag and not racing, thus taking up spots from people who want to race. We also hope the lottery system will neutralize any issues related to a time-specific entry, such as individual internet speeds, work or personal commitments that conflict with entry times, payment issues, etc. There will also be a waitlist, as there always has been, to facilitate transfer of entries between individuals. In past years we have been able to accommodate everyone who wants to race , and we have no reason to think that will change - the past two years we have actually had more people in the end looking to sell places than we had on the waitlist. We know many clubs use HOTW as their club race, and this shouldn't change anything with regard to that. It is our hope that this system will improve the registration process for everyone - we welcome any constructive comments/questions to help that along.

kchsligo

All legitimate points that you want to address but maybe some prior explanation would have useful seeing as though this is one of the top races in the country we are talking about.

Still seems a little odd that it will supposedly a true lottery which could mean the top athletes have a chance of missing out or at least not being sure of their entry for a bit while.

kchsligo

All legitimate points that you want to address but maybe some prior explanation would have useful seeing as though this is one of the top races in the country we are talking about.

Still seems a little odd that it will supposedly a true lottery which could mean the top athletes have a chance of missing out or at least not being sure of their entry for a bit while.

Ceepo

leidenlass wrote: »

Hey guys, Kilkee race secretary here. We are implementing the lottery system in the hopes of improving the entry process for all genuine athletes. A number of issues have cropped up over the past few years that we want to address, specifically block booking of entries, people selling on their entries for above face-value and people entering for the goodie bag and not racing, thus taking up spots from people who want to race. We also hope the lottery system will neutralize any issues related to a time-specific entry, such as individual internet speeds, work or personal commitments that conflict with entry times, payment issues, etc. There will also be a waitlist, as there always has been, to facilitate transfer of entries between individuals. In past years we have been able to accommodate everyone who wants to race , and we have no reason to think that will change - the past two years we have actually had more people in the end looking to sell places than we had on the waitlist. We know many clubs use HOTW as their club race, and this shouldn't change anything with regard to that. It is our hope that this system will improve the registration process for everyone - we welcome any constructive comments/questions to help that along.

Hi there.

Can you say what provisions have HOTW put in place to ensure that all contenders in Over all and in all AG will get an entry to race. Thanks

Ceepo

leidenlass wrote: »

Hey guys, Kilkee race secretary here. We are implementing the lottery system in the hopes of improving the entry process for all genuine athletes. A number of issues have cropped up over the past few years that we want to address, specifically block booking of entries, people selling on their entries for above face-value and people entering for the goodie bag and not racing, thus taking up spots from people who want to race. We also hope the lottery system will neutralize any issues related to a time-specific entry, such as individual internet speeds, work or personal commitments that conflict with entry times, payment issues, etc. There will also be a waitlist, as there always has been, to facilitate transfer of entries between individuals. In past years we have been able to accommodate everyone who wants to race , and we have no reason to think that will change - the past two years we have actually had more people in the end looking to sell places than we had on the waitlist. We know many clubs use HOTW as their club race, and this shouldn't change anything with regard to that. It is our hope that this system will improve the registration process for everyone - we welcome any constructive comments/questions to help that along.

Hi there.

Can you say what provisions have HOTW put in place to ensure that all contenders in Over all and in all AG will get an entry to race. Thanks

tunney

leidenlass wrote: »

Hey guys, Kilkee race secretary here. We are implementing the lottery system in the hopes of improving the entry process for all genuine athletes. A number of issues have cropped up over the past few years that we want to address, specifically block booking of entries, people selling on their entries for above face-value and people entering for the goodie bag and not racing, thus taking up spots from people who want to race. We also hope the lottery system will neutralize any issues related to a time-specific entry, such as individual internet speeds, work or personal commitments that conflict with entry times, payment issues, etc. There will also be a waitlist, as there always has been, to facilitate transfer of entries between individuals. In past years we have been able to accommodate everyone who wants to race , and we have no reason to think that will change - the past two years we have actually had more people in the end looking to sell places than we had on the waitlist. We know many clubs use HOTW as their club race, and this shouldn't change anything with regard to that. It is our hope that this system will improve the registration process for everyone - we welcome any constructive comments/questions to help that along.

Assuming you are handing back the national champs status?

Constructive criticism is not always possible. Sometimes ask that can be said is "it's a terrible idea, don't do it" is all that can be said.

tunney

Ceepo wrote: »

Hi there.

Can you say what provisions have HOTW put in place to ensure that all contenders in Over all and in all AG will get an entry to race. Thanks

There can't be any. How do you identify a contender?

And it's not up Limerick TC to determine.

widespread

The fairness of the lottery system will be directly proportional to the number of LTC members who get a spot on the start line

RacoonQueen

I gave away my jacket this year and the rest of the goody bag is still in the bag at the bottom of a box somwhere. Great goody bag but nothing in it I really needed.

Maybe drop the goody bag, a great race doesn't need to entice people with a goody bag...

Oryx

Pre registration might be a better idea.

El Director

leidenlass wrote: »

Hey guys, Kilkee race secretary here. We are implementing the lottery system in the hopes of improving the entry process for all genuine athletes. A number of issues have cropped up over the past few years that we want to address, specifically block booking of entries, people selling on their entries for above face-value and people entering for the goodie bag and not racing, thus taking up spots from people who want to race. We also hope the lottery system will neutralize any issues related to a time-specific entry, such as individual internet speeds, work or personal commitments that conflict with entry times, payment issues, etc. There will also be a waitlist, as there always has been, to facilitate transfer of entries between individuals. In past years we have been able to accommodate everyone who wants to race , and we have no reason to think that will change - the past two years we have actually had more people in the end looking to sell places than we had on the waitlist. We know many clubs use HOTW as their club race, and this shouldn't change anything with regard to that. It is our hope that this system will improve the registration process for everyone - we welcome any constructive comments/questions to help that along.

That's all good and well (for other years) however Limerick TC have an extra responsibility this year, indeed a privilege, namely the hosting of the National Championship. This decision in my opinion shows a lack of respect for and understanding in the very idea of a National Championships.

Ceepo

tunney wrote: »

There can't be any. How do you identify a contender?

And it's not up Limerick TC to determine.

I know there can't.
I also think that the NC should be open to everyone who wants to race, regardless of if the have done the race (venue) before.

Ceepo

tunney wrote: »

There can't be any. How do you identify a contender?

And it's not up Limerick TC to determine.

I know there can't.
I also think that the NC should be open to everyone who wants to race, regardless of if the have done the race (venue) before.

Ceepo

leidenlass wrote: »

Hey guys, Kilkee race secretary here. We are implementen lottery system in the hopes of improving the entry process for all genuine athletes. A number of issues have cropped up over the past few years that we want to address, specifically block booking of entries, people selling on their entries for above face-value and people entering for the goodie bag and not racing, thus taking up spots from people who want to race. We also hope the lottery system will neutralize any issues related to a time-specific entry, such as individual internet speeds, work or personal commitments that conflict with entry times, payment issues, etc. There will also be a waitlist, as there always has been, to facilitate transfer of entries between individuals. In past years we have been able to accommodate everyone who wants to race , and we have no reason to think that will change - the past two years we have actually had more people in the end looking to sell places than we had on the waitlist. We know many clubs use HOTW as their club race, and this shouldn't change anything with regard to that. It is our hope that this system will improve the registration process for everyone - we welcome any constructive comments/questions to help that along.

My last reply was a bit tongue in cheek just tease out an answer.

If Limerick tri club or anyother club for than matter want to hold a race, they are entilted to do so and come up with what ever entry system they seem fit. And that's fair enough.
However National Champ races are and should be open to everyone.
If there is a problem and there seems to be going on your post. Then it incumbent on the club to sort it out before looking for NC races.
Serious questions have and need to be asked regarding the staging of the NC and to a lesser degree the NS. If it's a question of catering for numbers, again questions need to be asked and answered. I accept not every everyone will not look to do HOTW as a NS as there are other races to enter if you are doing the NS. However there is only on Olympic NC race.
You have pointed out that, in most case everyone who wants to race normally gets to race, which is fine to a point. Athletes will look to schedule there races about a number if things. Some around family, holidays etc. But for NC races, athletes will they to peak for the and will put a lit of time and effort in trying to get it right. I dont think that they should wait to see if they come out of a lottery system to try and compete for NC at any AG or senior level
DO YOU.
This in no way takes away from previous HOTW

sconhome

I would have presumed that all races sanctioned by TI would have to go through their entry portal:

http://www.triathlonireland.com/organiser-info.html

It doesn't seem fair that a top caliber of athelete will be assured of entry (what are the criteria for this selection?) while everybody else is done on a lottery draw.

Would it not be simpler in the context of the NC to eliminate all ODL and relay racers first, increasing the capacity of the event for those who really, really want or have to race Kilkee?
A ODL or relay slot does not indicate a long term commitment to triathlon so why not run a second race to accomodate people who want Kilkee on their triathlon CV?
Why don't we start looking at events in the same vein of ITU racing where the elites race separately to the age groupers? Surely this would make it safer and more enjoyale for the vast majority of participants.

Ceepo

Sorry double post

leidenlass

Perhaps "entry allocation" would have been a better term to use than "lottery," since we don't anticipate that people will be excluded and in fact, hope that the opposite is true and this method results in a more truthful registration process. It really is more of a pre-registration. As previously mentioned, we have historically not had trouble finding a spot for any individual interested in racing. We will also be prioritizing individual entries this year by holding back the release of relay entries until we see how the individual entry take-up is going. The registration process will also be completed earlier in the year so everyone should still be well able to plan their race calendar (dates not finalized yet but it's looking like February, as opposed to March last year).

It's great to see the level of interest people are taking in this. We do appreciate all the feedback, and all comments will be passed along to the organizing committee for discussion and consideration moving forward.

catweazle

AKW wrote: »

I would have presumed that all races sanctioned by TI would have to go through their entry portal:

http://www.triathlonireland.com/organiser-info.html

Nah they tried that a year or two ago but the TI server wasn't able to handle it - bit of a mess and they had to swich back to Active again a week or two later and redo it!

Am i the only one that doesn't see this new entry system as an issue - a NS series contender wasn't technically guaranteed an entry in the old system either. The system was a farce with fastest fingers first and block booking of 10+ entries by individuals, how was that a fair system

(look kindly on my entry leidenlass)

Ceepo

catweazle wrote: »

Am i the only one that doesn't see this new entry system as an issue - a NS series contender wasn't technically guaranteed an entry in the old system either. The system was a farce with fastest fingers first and block booking of 10+ entries by individuals, how was that a fair system

(look kindly on my entry leidenlass)

And why should they be granted a entry ?
There was an open and transparant system for the to enter through, if they missed it then hard luck,

A lottery system is different as it will be down to someone or a number of people to decide who races, Lottery conjures up an "pulled out of the hat" image

It is now updated to "entry allocation" so if the like the cut of your jib CW, they will allocate you an entry

speedyj

catweazle wrote: »

block booking of 10+ entries by individuals

The Active Europe entry system can definitely be configured to prevent that.

Not quite sure what to make of all this. I think a (genuinely random, computerized) lottery would be fair if it was not the National Championchips. With it being NC, no.

The mention of guaranteeing "contenders" entry is also intriguing, as it's the AG NC also. So is for example anyone who has placed top 5 in their AG in a NS race guaranteed entry?

Nothing has actually happened yet though, plenty of time for further consideration..

gickna1

leidenlass wrote: »

Hey guys, Kilkee race secretary here. We are implementing the lottery system in the hopes of improving the entry process for all genuine athletes. A number of issues have cropped up over the past few years that we want to address, specifically block booking of entries, people selling on their entries for above face-value and people entering for the goodie bag and not racing, thus taking up spots from people who want to race. We also hope the lottery system will neutralize any issues related to a time-specific entry, such as individual internet speeds, work or personal commitments that conflict with entry times, payment issues, etc. There will also be a waitlist, as there always has been, to facilitate transfer of entries between individuals. In past years we have been able to accommodate everyone who wants to race , and we have no reason to think that will change - the past two years we have actually had more people in the end looking to sell places than we had on the waitlist. We know many clubs use HOTW as their club race, and this shouldn't change anything with regard to that. It is our hope that this system will improve the registration process for everyone - we welcome any constructive comments/questions to help that along.

Maybe give those who have entered the race in previous years first preference on a spot. Although I missed last year through sickness, but I don't think many would travel so far for a goody bag.

littlemsfickle

So it sounds like in practical terms there won't really be much difference to previous years. I think the mistake was probably in using the term "lottery" then as opposed to pre-registration. I'm sure someone technically minded could come up with a way of preventing block booking without having to change the whole system though.