Landlord damaged laptop - question

140490

Well my landlord got me a new fridge, while he was taking of the box and stuff he spelled my cupe of coffee on my macbook pro was on table and cup was beside it!! Thanks god was only keyboard damaged so took ot to repair shop wich they quote me 180 euro for keyboard replacement, the question is my landlord responsable for this damage or no....

I know its an accident but he is a careless and bad landlord wich he never fixed a thing in the house...

djimi

Ignoring the fact that coffee cups dont belong within 20 feet of laptops, surely common decency would dictate that if he broke it then he should offer to repair it?

D3PO

theres nothing in regards to tenancy laws that make him have to pay for it. As Djimi said common decency would see him offer to do so.

That said you shouldn't have had a coffee cup anyway near your notebook so you have played a role in this. Id imagine both of you paying half each would be reasonable tbh.

The_Conductor

I'd go with D3PO on this one- you were both culpable by your actions. A 50-50 split of the cost would seem fair enough to me.

Ps- if they're charging you 180 quid for a new keyboard- you've got to be at the most expensive repair shop in the country.

fleet

The_Conductor wrote: »

Ps- if they're charging you 180 quid for a new keyboard- you've got to be at the most expensive repair shop in the country.

I though the same until I saw what was involved in changing the keyboard.
It's a five minute job on my Dell.
It's 3-5 hours for the Air...

The_Conductor

fleet wrote: »

I though the same until I saw what was involved in changing the keyboard.
It's a five minute job on my Dell.
It's 3-5 hours for the Air...

http://www.ifixit.com/Answers/View/58460/Broken+keyboard+on+the+new+MacBook+Air+13+due+to+water

I don't understand how/why they're allowed sell a wholly disposable laptop?

According to other sites- its the least repairable product available for sale.

Even minor damage is cited as damaging the product beyond economic repair.

Its like breaking the indicator light on your car- and being told its cheaper to buy a new car.

murphaph

D3PO wrote: »

theres nothing in regards to tenancy laws that make him have to pay for it. As Djimi said common decency would see him offer to do so.

That said you shouldn't have had a coffee cup anyway near your notebook so you have played a role in this. Id imagine both of you paying half each would be reasonable tbh.

Agree. He was clumsy, you were both careless. You saw him opening the fridge right beside your laptop and coffee. You should have used common sense and moved your expensive belongings to somewhere safer.

Since moving to Germany several years ago I got to thinking about such things. I have a general liability insurance that covers me should I cause accidental damage to someone else or their property (it only costs like €30 a year). I've never used it but compare then to a guy I know here who was a passenger in a car and who opened the passenger door just as a cyclist was passing on the bike lane. He had to pay out of his own pocket for the door to be repaired and for the cyclist's clothes (could have been much worse, but still sot him a few hundred for his carelessness. He had no liability insurance) .

I often wonder what the story is in Ireland for such things. Hardly anyone has a general third party liability insurance so if you cause damage like in the OP's case you pretty much always have to pay out of your own pocket.

Wabbit Ears

If amyone is going to be doing any kind of work its your responsibility to move anything out of the area thats breakable. The fact that you left the macbook itself in the area the landlord was working in is bad enough but you also put a cup of coffee beside it!! Sure while you were at it you should have added a water filled few crystal vases standing around on wonky pedestals, rested a few carving knives on the edge of tables and boiled some water and left the saucepan with the handles sticking out beside him.

the world wonders

D3PO wrote: »

That said you shouldn't have had a coffee cup anyway near your notebook

djmi wrote:

Ignoring the fact that coffee cups dont belong within 20 feet of laptops,

I don't understand these comments, are you people seriously telling me that you have never enjoyed a beverage while using your laptop?

Wabbit Ears wrote:

If amyone is going to be doing any kind of work its your responsibility to move anything out of the area thats breakable.

Surely it is just as much the landlord's responsibility to move fragile items out of the work area?

Legally it is the landlord's responsibility to fix this, the fact that it was an accident makes no difference. Just as it would be the tenant's responsibility to fix something that they accidentally broke.

djimi

the world wonders wrote: »

I don't understand these comments, are you people seriously telling me that you have never enjoyed a beverage while using your laptop?

Liquid + laptop = disaster.

We all do it, but we cant complain when it goes wrong. Ultimately its stupid to leave cups that close to laptops.

The_Conductor

djimi wrote: »

Liquid + laptop = disaster.

We all do it, but we cant complain when it goes wrong. Ultimately its stupid to leave cups that close to laptops.

I'm embarrassed to admit it- but I'd guess over the past 15 years I've done something similar at least 3 times........

It happens. If it happens- unfortunately-while often it may not be you yourself who spills the drink- you are culpable.

pippip

I had spill insurance with my last dell.

Its an expected accident.

murphaph

Or get a Think Pad. We use them at work (choice between Think Pad and MacBook something or other). My colleague spilled water on his keyboard a few weeks back and this happened (feel free to kill the music on that one!).

jimmycrackcorm

Op, you placed the coffee next to.the laptop. You're liable because you should know that you're being negligent in doing so.

As for the poster pointing out about drinking coffee when working on a computer, there's a difference between coffee spilling on a laptop compared to a 10 Euro replaceable usb pc keyboard

140490

Thanks guys for this quick replys

Well i like having my cup of coffee in d morning and using my laptop as we all do.

Im quite a shy person so i don't ask someone to pay for something that happened in an accident specialy my friend but my landlord is ******

So i asked him to pay for repair cost wich he won't, so i may take that money from his next rent collection! And about repair cost that was the cheapest quote that i got, most of shops quoting me from 200 to 250e for keyboard replacement and cleanup inside.

thanks again guys

The_Morrigan

140490 wrote: »

Thanks guys for this quick replys

Well i like having my cup of coffee in d morning and using my laptop as we all do.

Im quite a shy person so i don't ask someone to pay for something that happened in an accident specialy my friend but my landlord is ******

So i asked him to pay for repair cost wich he won't, so i may take that money from his next rent collection! And about repair cost that was the cheapest quote that i got, most of shops quoting me from 200 to 250e for keyboard replacement and cleanup inside.

thanks again guys

You can't take the money from the rent.

Grandpa Hassan

140490 wrote: »

So i asked him to pay for repair cost wich he won't, so i may take that money from his next rent collection!

You do that and you'll be in breach of your lease

lucky333

It's your own fault for being careless with a coffee that close to a laptop.. You also cannot take the money from the rent, I'm sure you are not allowed to with-hold rent to pay for your laptop.

the world wonders

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Op, you placed the coffee next to.the laptop. You're liable because you should know that you're being negligent in doing so.

There is nothing negligent about having a cup of liquid near a laptop, as long as you take reasonable care not to spill it. The landlord did not take this reasonable care -- it's plain common sense to move breakables out of the area when you are doing work, therefore the landlord is liable.

Legally you are not allowed deduct money from your rent to pay for this, you are supposed to open a dispute with the PRTB.

Cienciano

The landlord is an asshole and 100% responsible here. You're not supposed to withold rent, but i probably would too. But good luck getting your deposit back!
No idea how people think the op is somehow partly responsible. Whoever is doing the work should make sure his work area is clear. And whoever spills the tea is responsible for spilling the tea

murphaph

If the landlord was slow to fix things before expect him to never cone round again after this incident. It's not the landlord's place to be moving his tenants personal belongings. That's the tenant's responsibility.

beauf

The_Conductor wrote: »

I'm embarrassed to admit it- but I'd guess over the past 15 years I've done something similar at least 3 times........

It happens. If it happens- unfortunately-while often it may not be you yourself who spills the drink- you are culpable.

Same here. Learnt a fair bit fixing my laptops as a result.

beauf

The_Conductor wrote: »

http://www.ifixit.com/Answers/View/58460/Broken+keyboard+on+the+new+MacBook+Air+13+due+to+water

I don't understand how/why they're allowed sell a wholly disposable laptop?

According to other sites- its the least repairable product available for sale.

Even minor damage is cited as damaging the product beyond economic repair.

Its like breaking the indicator light on your car- and being told its cheaper to buy a new car.

While its a result of them cramping things into a tiny unibody shell you'd thing they could design it so it could be taken apart for repair. It just poor design.

djimi

the world wonders wrote: »

There is nothing negligent about having a cup of liquid near a laptop, as long as you take reasonable care not to spill it. The landlord did not take this reasonable care -- it's plain common sense to move breakables out of the area when you are doing work, therefore the landlord is liable.

Likewise the OP also did not take reasonable care.

Im with you, I think the landlord should pay (out of common decency rather than some legal obligation), but the OP ultimately broke the golden rule of not allowing liquids near a laptop, and really needs to learn a lesson from this also. You can take as much care as you like, as anyone who works around computers or on a desk will tell you its inevitable that eventually you will brush your arm off your coffee mug and spill it all over your desk...

Mikros

Eh, how are people saying the OP is responsible for the landlord knocking over the coffee? Unless the coffee and laptop were put right beside the landlord when he was not looking or something I fail to see how the landlord is not responsible. Sure it was an accident but he still knocked it over at the end of the day.

I drink coffee all the time when working on my laptop, I didn't think it would be that unusual. Now if a fridge was being moved (not the easiest thing) I wouldn't have a laptop or a cup of coffee anywhere near the work, but again assuming the OP didn't drop it up in the middle, the person doing the work should have taken a bit of care to make sure the area was clear.

You can't take it out of the rent though. You *could* make a civil claim in the small claims court (they handle minor damage to property cases) but I would rather try and come to some arrangement (split the costs, take a bit out of the rent) by consent with the landlord.

Stella Virgo

140490 wrote: »

Thanks guys for this quick replys

Well i like having my cup of coffee in d morning and using my laptop as we all do.

Im quite a shy person so i don't ask someone to pay for something that happened in an accident specialy my friend but my landlord is ******

So i asked him to pay for repair cost wich he won't, so i may take that money from his next rent collection! And about repair cost that was the cheapest quote that i got, most of shops quoting me from 200 to 250e for keyboard replacement and cleanup inside.

thanks again guys

totally illegal move....do that.....and expect to get notice to leave the house. .....

djimi

Mikros wrote: »

I drink coffee all the time when working on my laptop, I didn't think it would be that unusual.

Its not unusual at all. But if it goes pear shaped then you only have one person to blame really, no matter what the circumstances.

Mikros

djimi wrote: »

Its not unusual at all. But if it goes pear shaped then you only have one person to blame really, no matter what the circumstances.

Well yeah - the person who knocked it over would be to blame. After that it is how much I contributed to it - and that all depends on the circumstances. Could be anything from totally to blame, or not at all.

Of course I'm 99% it will be me spilling something on my own computer which makes it a bit easier to figure out who to blame...

the_syco

140490 wrote: »

while he was taking of the box and stuff he spelled my cupe of coffee on my macbook pro was on table and cup was beside it!!

Why did you have the cup of coffee next to your laptop whilst you knew work would be happening next to it?

140490 wrote: »

So i asked him to pay for repair cost wich he won't, so i may take that money from his next rent collection!

Expect to be given a notice to pay the rest of the rent, or to face eviction.

A Primal Nut

I'm shocked at the amount of people who say they never drink coffee while using their laptops - I thought everyone did that?

In fairness, the OP should have cleared the area of anything sensitive or liquid if a fridge was being installed.

eqwjewoiujqorj

Would you be able to replace the keyboards yourself?

Big Davey

The Landlord broke your laptop he should have it repaired already at this stage. If he is not capable of doing repairs or maintenance in the property he should pay a professional who is. Does he have proper insurance ? He will no doubt have an excess on this of at least €200 so should just pay you the money he can then put the receipt against his taxes at the end of the year. You may have been nervous or flustered with the landlord coming into your home and forgot to move the coffee big deal he should have moved it he was the one doing the work.
Dont stop the money out of the rent as that is not legal but do seek advice from Threshold, or PRTB or the legal advice dept in Citizens Advice etc. You sound to me like quite a good tenant he should not be disputing this at all in my opinion. Good landlords are out there I for one maintain my properties to a very high standard but if you check my recent posts you will see I have a tenant who is not paying rent and I have to take them to court so good tenants are important too one does not work without the other.
Good luck with this but dont be afraid to move on if you are not happy.

D3PO

Big Davey wrote: »

. Does he have proper insurance ? He will no doubt have an excess on this of at least €200 so should just pay you the money he can then put the receipt against his taxes at the end of the year.

you cant insure somebody else's contents. :rolleyes:

Gatling

There is a simple case of a life lesson here ,

YellowFeather

I think the landlord is completely responsible. As he unwrapped the packaging, he knocked over the coffee. It's not like the OP had the laptop right next to the fridge area with the coffee balanced precariously in front of it, all covered in some sort of camouflage.

I'd often sit in front of my laptop with a drink near me, and I have never spilled (even though I can be clumsy as fcuk!). It's not an unreasonable thing to do. A person has the right to have a coffee beside their laptop in their home (I'm sure it's in the Constitution somewhere :pac:).

Really surprised by the opinions that the OP is in any way responsible.

murphaph

YellowFeather wrote: »

I think the landlord is completely responsible. As he unwrapped the packaging, he knocked over the coffee. It's not like the OP had the laptop right next to the fridge area with the coffee balanced precariously in front of it, all covered in some sort of camouflage.

I'd often sit in front of my laptop with a drink near me, and I have never spilled (even though I can be clumsy as fcuk!). It's not an unreasonable thing to do. A person has the right to have a coffee beside their laptop in their home (I'm sure it's in the Constitution somewhere :pac:).

Really surprised by the opinions that the OP is in any way responsible.

If you were sitting down with your expensive laptop (never mind coffee beside it!) would you leave it there as someone unpacked a fridge beside it or would you move it somewhere out of harm's way?

YellowFeather

murphaph wrote: »

If you were sitting down with your expensive laptop (never mind coffee beside it!) would you leave it there as someone unpacked a fridge beside it or would you move it somewhere out of harm's way?

Not knowing the the circumstances, I would consider it reasonable to think the landlord wouldn't knock over the coffee. Or should should I put away all my valuables before getting my fridge replaced just in case??

beauf

YellowFeather wrote: »

Not knowing the the circumstances, I would consider it reasonable to think the landlord wouldn't knock over the coffee. Or should should I put away all my valuables before getting my fridge replaced just in case??

I'd move my favorite cup never mind a €1000 piece of electronics.

SpaceTime

Your household insurance should cover it.
That's why it's always a good idea to take out contents cover in a rental place.

Things can fall, you might get broken into etc etc

If it wasn't the landlord and was a mate of yours or something what would you do?

Situation isn't really much different. It's accidental damage. One could argue that leaving a cup of liquid next to a laptop while furniture is being moved is somewhat negligent too.

I would honestly say either claim on your insurance or write it down to bad luck and take more care of your laptop !

YellowFeather

beauf wrote: »

I'd move my favorite cup never mind a €1000 piece of electronics.

That's fair enough - each to their own. But should you be liable if you didn't?

beauf

YellowFeather wrote: »

That's fair enough - each to their own. But should you be liable if you didn't?

If you knew someone was doing some work, especially with something large and awkward in an area and you left things that could be damaged, especially something hazardous like hot liquids in that area, I would assume you'd have a lot of responsibility for any accident.

YellowFeather

beauf wrote: »

If you knew someone was doing some work, especially with something large and awkward in an area and you left things that could be damaged, especially something hazardous like hot liquids in that area, I would assume you'd have a lot of responsibility for any accident.

The laptop was damaged when the packaging was being taken off the fridge - not when it was being fitted. The area where the fridge goes could have been left completely clear.

murphaph

To be honest this doesn't belong in this forum. The damage done has nothing to do with the landlord/tenant relationship. The rent can't be stopped etc. without being in breach of contract. The issue needs to be taken to small claims or wherever if the OP wants to.

The_Conductor

SpaceTime wrote: »

Your household insurance should cover it.
That's why it's always a good idea to take out contents cover in a rental place.

Things can fall, you might get broken into etc etc

If it wasn't the landlord and was a mate of yours or something what would you do?

Situation isn't really much different. It's accidental damage. One could argue that leaving a cup of liquid next to a laptop while furniture is being moved is somewhat negligent too.

I would honestly say either claim on your insurance or write it down to bad luck and take more care of your laptop !

Echo this.
Claim on your insurance OP (providing its more than the excess)- and put it down to experience.

beauf

YellowFeather wrote: »

The laptop was damaged when the packaging was being taken off the fridge - not when it was being fitted. The area where the fridge goes could have been left completely clear.

I would suggest that removing the packaging is part of the fitting process, and would involve a space large than the fridge itself. Unless you are Doctor Who or similar.

Big Davey

D3PO wrote: »

you cant insure somebody else's contents. :rolleyes:

I never said the landlord could cover someone elses contents but proper landlord insurance should cover any damage he does while carrying out maintenance just like a tradesman insurance would :rolleyes: and if it doesent he should hire a competent insured person to carry out repairs / maintenance shouldent he ? :rolleyes again:

Big Davey

beauf wrote: »

If you knew someone was doing some work, especially with something large and awkward in an area and you left things that could be damaged, especially something hazardous like hot liquids in that area, I would assume you'd have a lot of responsibility for any accident.

How often does a landlord come to do work in your home ? the girl may have been a bit flustered he is supposed to be a professional landlord he sounds like a bit of a disaster to me maybe he needs to learn the "life lesson" everyone is on about and pay someone to do the maintenance he is not capable of. what does it cost to get DID or Harvey Norman etc to fit an appliance they have sold ? €20 ? and they take away the old one too ! and I bet they are insured. Just another penny pinching landlord that gets modern decent professional landlords like me a bad name.

Grandpa Hassan

What would you do if this was a friend? I think you'd be asking to split the cost. And I think that that is probably appropriate.

But is nothing to do with whether he is your LL or not. It is completely seperate to the lease agreement. You have no right to deduct it from your rent, and if you do your LL can make a demand for it, and start proceedings to end your tenancy if you dont pay it. You would basically be giving him an excuse to evict you if he so wishes

This is just between you and him as private individuals

D3PO

Big Davey wrote: »

I never said the landlord could cover someone elses contents but proper landlord insurance should cover any damage he does while carrying out maintenance just like a tradesman insurance would :rolleyes: and if it doesent he should hire a competent insured person to carry out repairs / maintenance shouldent he ? :rolleyes again:

maybe learn what insurance a landlord needs then try again ....

Big Davey

D3PO wrote: »

maybe learn what insurance a landlord needs then try again ....

Ehhhhhhhh landlord insurance. Correct ?

beauf

Big Davey wrote: »

How often does a landlord come to do work in your home ? the girl may have been a bit flustered he is supposed to be a professional landlord he sounds like a bit of a disaster to me maybe he needs to learn the "life lesson" everyone is on about and pay someone to do the maintenance he is not capable of. what does it cost to get DID or Harvey Norman etc to fit an appliance they have sold ? €20 ? and they take away the old one too ! and I bet they are insured. Just another penny pinching landlord that gets modern decent professional landlords like me a bad name.

I wouldn't assume those "man with a van" people they contract it out to are insured.

Out of curiosity What part of a LL policy covers damage to a tenants property by the LL.

http://www.axa.ie/home-insurance/landlord/