Have cars really gotten bigger?

Jesus.

I'm wondering if the size of the average car on our roads has really gotten that much bigger since back in the sixties, seventies or eighties for example.
Now I know the corresponding car from any particular segment in today's market is considerably bigger than the one of yesteryear (eg a Mondeo is much bigger than a Cortina etc) but I have an inkling that the actual size of the current cars we drive aren't that much bigger than before because we buy more from the smaller segments than we used to.

I could be way off with this but do you think, for example, that back in the day there might have been many more Cortinas sold than Escorts, whereas today Focus sales are considerably higher than Mondeos? If that is the case then the actual size of the cars we drive today aren't any bigger than back then. The current Focus might be almost as big as a Cortina but maybe there were as many Cortina's driven percentage-wise, as there are Focus' today?

I was just looking at Reeling in the Years the other night. It was back in the sixties and the cars looked every bit as big as the ones we drive today.

What do you think?

Supergurrier

Park beside a ford escort mk2

tin79

Supergurrier wrote: »

Park beside a ford escort mk2

or a mini from the 60s. Even a Smart car makes them look tiny.

Henry Ford III

Yes. Cars have gotten much bigger, and heavier too.

bop1977

Look a an original golf and the current generation and it's case closed. Cars are getting bigger with every generation to allow for safety and extras to be fitted.

Ded_Zebra

Yes

Anan1

^^ And uglier too ^^

listermint

Yes

The you could probably fit two E39s in the F10

Jesus.

Supergurrier wrote: »

Park beside a ford escort mk2

I know, I used to own one!

But that's not really what I'm getting at. The mk2 Escort being roughly the same size as today's Fiesta doesn't really matter. Its the size of the actual cars being bought is what matters rather than the particular segment they belong to. Do you know what I'm trying to say?

Lets say back in the late 70's, out of every 10 Fords sold, there were 6 Cortinas, 3 Escorts and 1 Fiesta. If nowadays there were 2 Mondeos, 6 Focus' and 2 Fiestas for every 10, the actual size of the cars on the streets wouldn't be all that much bigger. You know what I'm saying?

This is just one big guess by the way. Just an aul theory I have running around in me noggin'

Stallingrad

Todays 3 series is bigger than early 5 series. You could argue that cars have not got bigger, just more niches have been added and badges moved around in the quest to move upmarket. Todays Polo is more comparable to the original Golf, Mondeo comparable to Scorpio/Granada, etc.

thegreatiam

the average car size is roughly the same. The individual car make is bigger, but we tend to buy more smaller cars, so the average is smaller.
Compare the cross section not like for like. is that what youre asking?

Jesus.

Stallingrad wrote: »

Todays 3 series is bigger than early 5 series. You could argue that cars have not got bigger, just more niches have been added and badges moved around in the quest to move upmarket. Todays Polo is more comparable to the original Golf, Mondeo comparable to Scorpio/Granada, etc.

That's what I'm trying to get at, Stallin. I wonder if the segments we buy from have changed a lot, therefore making the cars we drive not an awful lot larger. Perhaps we buy more "small family cars" - segment C - than we did back in the 70's for example when maybe we bought more from the D segment?

porsche959

Maybe it's just clever styling, but the current Jaguar XK looks to me more compact than the XK8 or XJS.

Jesus.

thegreatiam wrote: »

the average car size is roughly the same. The individual car make is bigger, but we tend to buy more smaller cars, so the average is smaller.
Compare the cross section not like for like. is that what youre asking?

Yes, you've nailed it mate. That's what I'm asking.

Do you think cars have actually gotten smaller then? (Which is what it really boils down to when you take the official classifications out of the way)

listermint

Jesus. wrote: »

That's what I'm trying to get at, Stallin. I wonder if the segments we buy from have changed a lot, therefore making the cars we drive not an awful lot larger. Perhaps we buy more "small family cars" - segment C - than we did back in the 70's for example when maybe we bought more from the D segment?

how mand 520Ds do you see on the road.

Anan1

Jesus. wrote: »

That's what I'm trying to get at, Stallin. I wonder if the segments we buy from have changed a lot, therefore making the cars we drive not an awful lot larger. Perhaps we buy more "small family cars" - segment C - than we did back in the 70's for example when maybe we bought more from the D segment?

I don't have any figures, but I doubt that's the case. Cars were relatively far more expensive both to own and to run back in the '70s - fewer people could afford any car, much less a bigger one than was necessary.

DoctorEdgeWild

I constantly have that 'Oh God, it's gone!' feeling whenever I park my MK2 CRX in a car park only for it to be hidden beside, beneath and between a monstrously proportioned 'small' modern car.

flashforward

listermint wrote: »

how mand 520Ds do you see on the road.

too many...

listermint

flashforward wrote: »

too many...

amen

biko

Looking at old cars they seems to be aprox same size, smaller even.

corktina

knowing my Cortinas and having a Focus currently, I can say that inside the focus is way bigger.
The difference being it is taller and crucially computer designed around the drive train so OUTSIDE it is only as big as it has to be. Give me a Cortina however form the point of view of working on it, you can nearly climb into a Cortina Engine bay to work on it, and shut the bonnet down if it's raining!

thegreatiam

Jesus. wrote: »

Yes, you've nailed it mate. That's what I'm asking.

Do you think cars have actually gotten smaller then? (Which is what it really boils down to when you take the official classifications out of the way)

I would say the individual models to be bigger than their old counterparts.

I remember growing up everyone had a 4 door saloon or estate.
the only big cars were landrovers and the only small one were minis and metros.
You see more 4x4s chelsea tractors than you used to, but on the other hand you get more hatchbacks.

I think they are bigger across the board.
our small cars are not that much smaller then 70'and 80's saloons but we have big 4x4 wannabes clogging up every school run.

ofcork

The merc e class is as big as older s classes,c class as big as previous e class.

Voodoomelon

2011 5 Series on the left, 2000 7 series on the right.



BMW have been pumping iron for the last decade for sure.

power pants

My e34 was a big car in its day and I think it is about the same size if not slightly smaller than the new 3 series cars

a lot smaller, narrower, lower than most cars on the road these days

MuppetCheck

Supergurrier wrote: »

Park beside a ford escort mk2

Mark 2 you say...


Same class of car, 40 years apart.

power pants

that's a mark one rofl

MuppetCheck

power pants wrote: »

that's a mark one rofl

So it is! Didn't even look before I posted, just remembered having one in my photobucket and didn't even look before I posted:pac:

dr.fuzzenstein

power pants wrote: »

that's a mark one rofl

And an Opel!

crosstownk

The current VW Polo is probably as big, if not bigger, than a MkI Golf.

dr.fuzzenstein

crosstownk wrote: »

The current VW Polo is probably as big, if not bigger, than a MkI Golf.

In fact, it is bigger.

MuppetCheck

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

And an Opel!

Same class without back doors though! I'd much prefer the escort though!

Interslice

crosstownk wrote: »

The current VW Polo is probably as big, if not bigger, than a MkI Golf.

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

In fact, it is bigger.

Jesus.

ofcork wrote: »

The merc e class is as big as older s classes,c class as big as previous e class.

power pants wrote: »

My e34 was a big car in its day and I think it is about the same size if not slightly smaller than the new 3 series cars

crosstownk wrote: »

The current VW Polo is probably as big, if not bigger, than a MkI Golf.

No disrespect to anyone because you're all spot on in what you're saying but what I'm trying to get at is something different.

The equivalent cars are way bigger. That's a fact so lets park that one (see what I did there? ). But are the cars we drive actually any bigger than the ones we/they drove 30-odd years ago?

Let me put it this way. What if a Martian came down in say 1975, and spent the day watching cars driving along say, Dorset Street. If he then did the same today, would he find the cars much bigger if any bigger at all?

The fact that the corresponding models have gotten much bigger is irrelevant if the public now just buy more cars from a smaller segment than they did back then. As the category cars have gotten bigger, have the public just gone out and bought the car in the next category below so the actual size of the cars on the road hasn't changed? Maybe now that Mondeo's have gotten so big, more people are buying Focus'? Whereas back in the day, perhaps they bought more Cortina's than they did Escorts?

Do you get what I'm saying now lads?

Jesus.

DoctorEdgeWild wrote: »

I constantly have that 'Oh God, it's gone!' feeling whenever I park my MK2 CRX in a car park only for it to be hidden beside, beneath and between a monstrously proportioned 'small' modern car.

Funny thing is, when the Yanks come over, they think we drive toys!

And their cars have gotten smaller since the 70's! :eek:

mickdw

I think the OP is spot on. Model for model, cars have grown but peoples requirements dont appear to have. This has resulted in the rise of the super mini where once this market might have been served by polo etc, we now have a sub polo car. Similarily, fiesta growing meant there was a need for the KA. If people were buying bigger, there would be no need for the introduction of these bottom end cars. At the same time, we have seen the end of the granada, again backing up the OPs point.
On a related note and perhaps slightly in contradiction to what Ive just written, I thing the only major change in car buying in the last 20 years has been the rise of the people carrier. Families who drove cortinas, sierras, early mondeos would appear to now have either gone the route of people carrier or focus sized car if they dont need the people carrier. Mondeo sized cars might be much bigger sellers if every mammy wasnt driving around in a little bus.

thecomedian

Would it be fair to say that years ago there was only one family car, while now there's 2 to a family?
A large one suv, people carrier and a small car.

Voodoomelon

I think for sure there are larger cars on the road than years ago. Sure super minis are very popular now, as are compact crossovers, but just stand on the side of a road for five minutes and look at the amount of saloons, SUVs and large hatchbacks on the road.

Not a chance the cars that we're using these days are smaller, at least not in this country; as to whether we need them or not is different story.

Cars might be smaller in European cities, but here we like saloons and five door hatches for some reason, both of which are considerably larger today.

Cookie_Monster

Voodoomelon wrote: »

I think for sure there are larger cars on the road than years ago. Sure super minis are very popular now, as are compact crossovers, but just stand on the side of a road for five minutes and look at the amount of saloons, SUVs and large hatchbacks on the road.

Not a chance the cars that we're using these days are smaller, at least not in this country; as to whether we need them or not is different story.
.

I think this is the case. Cars these days also look way more chunkier, so while they may be the same (or close) dimensions end to end there is almost certainly a lot more mass in them. The 7 series pictured is a good example, regardless of the size difference the new one looks far more filled out, heavier and 'fuller' and not in a good way either.

Cosmo K

Forget about cars, have a look at modern tractors. 30 years ago farmers a had cute little Masseys, nowadays they drive tractors the size of a 3 bed semi!

mailforkev

Audi are a good example of this happening in recent times, never mind Escorts from the 60s and Golfs from the 70s.

The new A3 saloon is almost identical in size to the original A4, which only came out in 1995 or so.

Joe 90

biko wrote: »

Looking at old cars they seems to be aprox same size, smaller even.

Surprised at how many Minis I saw in that clip. Even more surprised to see what looked like a Lotus Cortina.

Jesus.

mickdw wrote: »

On a related note and perhaps slightly in contradiction to what Ive just written, I thing the only major change in car buying in the last 20 years has been the rise of the people carrier. Families who drove cortinas, sierras, early mondeos would appear to now have either gone the route of people carrier or focus sized car if they dont need the people carrier. Mondeo sized cars might be much bigger sellers if every mammy wasnt driving around in a little bus.

That's a good point. They are a modern phenomenon for sure. I think part of the reason for that is down to the child-seat law. Years ago you could just chuck your kids on the back seat of your Rekord and away you go. Nowadays you can't fit three child seats in the back of an ordinary car so you have to get a minivan.

Another reason I don't think modern cars look much bigger than back in the day is because of the shape. The cars we drive now are all curves and very "rounded" and the front and rear. This gives the impression - at least in my opinion - that they're more compact than they really are. Cars of the 60's, 70's and 80's were more aggressive looking because of their straight lines and almost perfectly rectangular shape. That makes them appear quite large when you see them on an old piece of film, I think.

Jesus.

Cosmo K wrote: »

Forget about cars, have a look at modern tractors. 30 years ago farmers a had cute little Masseys, nowadays they drive tractors the size of a 3 bed semi!

Get in there! Up the Culchies!!

Jesus.

mailforkev wrote: »

Audi are a good example of this happening in recent times, never mind Escorts from the 60s and Golfs from the 70s.

The new A3 saloon is almost identical in size to the original A4, which only came out in 1995 or so.

Yes but will it make any difference in real terms?

Will people not just start buying the A3 Saloon instead of an A4? In fact, is the very reason they have to keep putting smaller cars in at the bottom precisely because people want to stay, more or less, at the same size bracket?

listermint

Jesus. wrote: »

Yes but will it make any difference in real terms?

Will people not just start buying the A3 Saloon instead of an A4? In fact, is the very reason they have to keep putting smaller cars in at the bottom precisely because people want to stay, more or less, at the same size bracket?

No, as has been demonstrated through the thread. People that bought the 5 series since the 90s and still buy the 5 series since the 90s have been getting a progressively larger vehicle.

People that have always bought smaller vehicles in the supermini class or whatever you want to call it. e.g. Polo have been getting progressively larger vehicles.

I dont seem them moving classes as such. The class of vehicle within their class are getting more spacious .

Jesus.

listermint wrote: »

No, as has been demonstrated through the thread. People that bought the 5 series since the 90s and still buy the 5 series since the 90s have been getting a progressively larger vehicle.People that have always bought smaller vehicles in the supermini class or whatever you want to call it. e.g. Polo have been getting progressively larger vehicles.
I dont seem them moving classes as such. The class of vehicle within their class are getting more spacious .

Not all of the thread:

thegreatiam wrote: »

the average car size is roughly the same. The individual car make is bigger, but we tend to buy more smaller cars, so the average is smaller.
Compare the cross section not like for like. is that what youre asking?

mickdw wrote: »

I think the OP is spot on. Model for model, cars have grown but peoples requirements dont appear to have. This has resulted in the rise of the super mini where once this market might have been served by polo etc, we now have a sub polo car. Similarily, fiesta growing meant there was a need for the KA. If people were buying bigger, there would be no need for the introduction of these bottom end cars. At the same time, we have seen the end of the granada, again backing up the OPs point..

Do you not think that people who used to buy 5 Series in the 90's might be buying 3 Series now?

And people who bought Golf's in the 90's might now be more inclined towards a Polo?

Oafley Jones

Jesus. wrote: »

Funny thing is, when Yanks come over, they think we drive toys!

And their cars have gotten smaller since the 70's! :eek:

Awful lot of fiat 500s around Orlando at the moment, you'll see good few yaris and I swear I saw a Ka last year. And these aren't just rental either. I remember when I first went over as a small fella the chrylser dynasty was considered small, but their cars have dramatically shrunk on average while ours have gotten bigger. Of course you'll still see absolute tanks of things over.

Fatswaldo

mickdw wrote: »

On a related note and perhaps slightly in contradiction to what Ive just written, I thing the only major change in car buying in the last 20 years has been the rise of the people carrier. Families who drove cortinas, sierras, early mondeos would appear to now have either gone the route of people carrier or focus sized car if they dont need the people carrier. Mondeo sized cars might be much bigger sellers if every mammy wasnt driving around in a little bus.

This issue is also influenced by the rear seatbelt laws introduced in early 90s. in my youth i can remember 6 or 7 kids in the back of most cars going to school or matches or whenever a minibus was required. A local family had 8 kids and transported them about in a Volkswagen Beetle. Youngest sat on mammys knee in the front, another couple in the tiny boot. Now a huge seven seater would not be sufficient.

listermint

Jesus. wrote: »

Not all of the thread:






Do you not think that people who used to buy 5 Series in the 90's might be buying 3 Series now?

And people who bought Golf's in the 90's might now be more inclined towards a Polo?

no i dont, and i dont see that trend with anyone i know tbh.Anyone that has upsized has done so from hatchbacks/coupes to saloons such as passat/A4/3 series and do it for child seats.


I still believe folks tend to stay in the class that they have always bought.

Oafley Jones

Fatswaldo wrote: »

This issue is also influenced by the rear seatbelt laws introduced in early 90s. in my youth i can remember 6 or 7 kids in the back of most cars going to school or matches or whenever a minibus was required. A local family had 8 kids and transported them about in a Volkswagen Beetle. Youngest sat on mammys knee in the front, another couple in the tiny boot. Now a huge seven seater would not be sufficient.

Many happy memories of being transported in the back of volvo estate with my friends annoying the driver behind us. Wouldn't happen now as parents would loose the head if their child wasn't properly secured. I know I would. There's also the bulk of child seats these days and the various bits and bobs, I've a newborn daughter and her pram barely fits in the boot of my car and doesn't leave much room in my wife's megane estate.