How much time can a Landlord legally take to have something replaced?

AbigailAC

Hi everyone! I'll cut straight to the point.

The fridge broke down (the light works but the fridge won't cool- out of gas, I was told), and after the auctioneers over promising on their handling the situation, it's been two weeks and yet we've got no fixing the current fridge/getting a new fridge.


How long can this go on until it becomes illegal and I can consider the contract to be broken?

Thanks a million!!

djimi

For something like a fridge? Not long at all.

Write to the landlord/auctioneer and outline the issue. State that the issue has been ongoing for a fortnight, and that you would like a written response in writing outlining how and when they intend for the issue to be resolved. Give a deadline (I think in this case a week is plenty) after which you will have no option but to have the appliance repaired/replaced and the money deducted from the rent.

If they come back and say that they are working on it and are awaiting on a part or whatever to be delivered then so be it. If they are just dragging their heals on replacing the fridge then you will need to take further action.

runawaybishop

AbigailAC wrote: »

Hi everyone! I'll cut straight to the point.

The fridge broke down (the light works but the fridge won't cool- out of gas, I was told), and after the auctioneers over promising on their handling the situation, it's been two weeks and yet we've got no fixing the current fridge/getting a new fridge.


How long can this go on until it becomes illegal and I can consider the contract to be broken?

Thanks a million!!

Are you looking for a way to get out of a lease? Do as djimi posted for a start - if its not fixed within your reasonable deadline then the property is not fit.

AbigailAC

Thanks very much for the help!

17 days and yet no fridge, and I am so tired of these attitudes that I am going to finish the lease, i.e. terminate the contract.

I wasn't able to find thread on this so I will post one asking if anybody has any experiences at getting the deposit back.


PS: I was advised by threshold.ie, for free and on the phone, this might come in handy

runawaybishop

AbigailAC wrote: »

Thanks very much for the help!

17 days and yet no fridge, and I am so tired of these attitudes that I am going to finish the lease, i.e. terminate the contract.

I wasn't able to find thread on this so I will post one asking if anybody has any experiences at getting the deposit back.


PS: I was advised by threshold.ie, for free and on the phone, this might come in handy

Did you inform then in writing of the issue and give them reasonable time to fix it?

AbigailAC

I did inform over email 17 days ago and yesterday they promised to have it replaced in 3 days (second promise of the kind - the first one being 11 days ago) so today I will send them an email saying that if they don't comply with this time frame (3-4 days) I will terminate the contract.

Do you have any input? (Thanks!)

runawaybishop

AbigailAC wrote: »

I did inform over email 17 days ago and yesterday they promised to have it replaced in 3 days (second promise of the kind - the first one being 11 days ago) so today I will send them an email saying that if they don't comply with this time frame (3-4 days) I will terminate the contract.

Do you have any input? (Thanks!)

Merely informing them isn't enough, not if you want to terminate. You need to write a letter detailing the issue and give them a reasonable time to fix it. Given that they have already indicated that they would replace it in 3 days i would agree with that date and, in your letter, state they have 3 days to replace the fridge. If this si not done then you can send them a notice that you will be terminating the tenancy. Are you fixed contract tenancy? If so what is the notice superior? If you are not then how long have you been in the house.

AbigailAC

So you recommend that I send a letter today instead of an email?

I am on a 12-month contract, started Aug 20th 2013. Sorry I don't know what notice superior stands for.

runawaybishop

AbigailAC wrote: »

So you recommend that I send a letter today instead of an email?

I am on a 12-month contract, started Aug 20th 2013. Sorry I don't know what notice superior stands for.

Whoops, silly auto correct -that should have read notice period, could be 28 days?

A letter that is tracked is better than an email, you want to play things by the book if you are looking to break the lease so they cant challenge you on anything.

The_Morrigan

AbigailAC wrote: »

So you recommend that I send a letter today instead of an email?

I am on a 12-month contract, started Aug 20th 2013. Sorry I don't know what notice superior stands for.

What does your contract say about termination?

AbigailAC

The_Morrigan wrote: »

What does your contract say about termination?

Not a word whatsoever.

djimi

I would definitely handle all correspondance of this nature (both outgoing and incoming) via registered letter, as it is the most reliable of paper trails.

runawaybishop

AbigailAC wrote: »

Not a word whatsoever.

It doesn't mention a notice period whatsoever?

AbigailAC

runawaybishop wrote: »

Whoops, silly auto correct -that should have read notice period, could be 28 days?

A letter that is tracked is better than an email, you want to play things by the book if you are looking to break the lease so they cant challenge you on anything.

Understood! Will do.

Any ideas on whether how/when/if I will be able to get my deposit back if I get to terminate?

djimi

runawaybishop wrote: »

It doesn't mention a notice period whatsoever?

Most fixed term leases wont; there isnt a notice period for when a fixed term lease is in effect (even if a notice period is written into the lease I dont think it would be legal as notice periods can only be agreed upon as and when they are needed, not in advance). Only a break clause possibly.

runawaybishop

AbigailAC wrote: »

Understood! Will do.

Any ideas on whether how/when/if I will be able to get my deposit back if I get to terminate?

There is no legal way they can withhold your deposit for terminating the tenancy early as long as you do it correctly.

AbigailAC

runawaybishop wrote: »

It doesn't mention a notice period whatsoever?

Nope, niet, nada!

runawaybishop

AbigailAC wrote: »

Nope, niet, nada!

Its probably 28 days so, as you have been in the house less than 6 months.

djimi

runawaybishop wrote: »

Its probably 28 days so, as you have been in the house less than 6 months.

There is no notice period under a fixed term lease. Part 4 notice periods do not apply.

runawaybishop

djimi wrote: »

There is no notice period under a fixed term lease. Part 4 notice periods do not apply.

You think the tenant can move out the day after the deadline to resolve the issue expires? Logically that makes sense, but i was being careful as i can;t find anything concrete.

edit: this is all i found so far

They can, however, end the tenancy where the landlord is in breach of an obligation and where they have written to the landlord regarding the breach and giving the landlord an opportunity to rectify the position.

The_Morrigan

djimi wrote: »

Most fixed term leases wont; there isnt a notice period for when a fixed term lease is in effect (even if a notice period is written into the lease I dont think it would be legal as notice periods can only be agreed upon as and when they are needed, not in advance). Only a break clause possibly.

Well that was my next question... is there a break clause in the lease?
Does it mention anything about repairs and replacement of items?

runawaybishop

The_Morrigan wrote: »

Well that was my next question... is there a break clause in the lease?
Does it mention anything about repairs and replacement of items?

It doesn't have to, its not fit for purpose as the landlord is negligent in his obligation.

AbigailAC

The_Morrigan wrote: »

Well that was my next question... is there a break clause in the lease?
Does it mention anything about repairs and replacement of items?

It doesn't.

The_Morrigan

runawaybishop wrote: »

It doesn't have to, its not fit for purpose as the landlord is negligent in his obligation.

Maybe but two wrongs don't make a right and making sure that the tenant follows the correct procedure is vital. So knowing of any get out of jail clauses or specifics relating to the landlords obligations within the lease are great for stick beatings.

runawaybishop

The_Morrigan wrote: »

Maybe but two wrongs don't make a right and making sure that the tenant follows the correct procedure is vital. So knowing of any get out of jail clauses or specifics relating to the landlords obligations within the lease are great for stick beatings.

Yes, that was why i was checking the notice period, but it appears there isn't one. The OP has to inform the landlord of the issue and state a reasonable period to rectify it. If the landlord doesn't fix the issue the tenant can then terminate.

If they had sent that later 2 weeks ago they could be gone by now.

djimi

runawaybishop wrote: »

You think the tenant can move out the day after the deadline to resolve the issue expires? Logically that makes sense, but i was being careful as i can;t find anything concrete.

edit: this is all i found so far

They can, however, end the tenancy where the landlord is in breach of an obligation and where they have written to the landlord regarding the breach and giving the landlord an opportunity to rectify the position.

Im sure a notice period is required if the tenant wants to break a lease due to breach of obligation (I dont actually know the exact procedure for this), but in this case its not tied to the length of time that the tenant has been in the tenancy. It has nothing to do with the notice periods as set out in the part 4 tenancy.

runawaybishop

djimi wrote: »

Im sure a notice period is required if the tenant wants to break a lease due to breach of obligation (I dont actually know the exact procedure for this), but in this case its not tied to the length of time that the tenant has been in the tenancy. It has nothing to do with the notice periods as set out in the part 4 tenancy.

Right, logically for something essential (like food storage) you'd expect to be able t move out asap. Logic is often not applied though.

OP - what did threshold say?

odds_on

djimi wrote: »

Im sure a notice period is required if the tenant wants to break a lease due to breach of obligation (I dont actually know the exact procedure for this), but in this case its not tied to the length of time that the tenant has been in the tenancy. It has nothing to do with the notice periods as set out in the part 4 tenancy.

A notice period for breach of obligations by either landlord or tenant (except rent arrears) is 28 days, irrespective of whether there is a fixed term or Part 4 tenancy in operation.

The conditions as mentioned previously are correct - that the landlord / agent has been notified (the law does not require it in writing, but it is safest to do so) and been given a "reasonable time" to remedy the matter.

Again, as has been stated many times in many threads, a reasonable time is normally considered to be 14 days. However, if the landlord has to have special parts ordered, provided he has done this, he has complied with the reasonable time.

runawaybishop

odds_on wrote: »

A notice period for breach of obligations by either landlord or tenant (except rent arrears) is 28 days, irrespective of whether there is a fixed term or Part 4 tenancy in operation.

The conditions as mentioned previously are correct - that the landlord / agent has been notified (the law does not require it in writing, but it is safest to do so) and been given a "reasonable time" to remedy the matter.

Again, as has been stated many times in many threads, a reasonable time is normally considered to be 14 days. However, if the landlord has to have special parts ordered, provided he has done this, he has complied with the reasonable time.

OK, given that food is essential can the op rent a fridge and deduct the cost from the rent?

odds_on

runawaybishop wrote: »

OK, given that food is essential can the op rent a fridge and deduct the cost from the rent?

That would certainly be an option, having advised the landlord /agent that that is the line of action they decide to take - or even buy a new fridge and deduct the price from the rent, again having advised the landlord of this action.

Alternatively, the OP could also make a claim with the PRTB for landlord's breach of obligations and claim damages for inconvenience, stress, lack of facilities as required by the Housing Standards for rented accommodation etc. It's the kind of thing that the PRTB like to hit landlords with.

runawaybishop

odds_on wrote: »

That would certainly be an option, having advised the landlord /agent that that is the line of action they decide to take - or even buy a new fridge and deduct the price from the rent, again having advised the landlord of this action.

Alternatively, the OP could also make a claim with the PRTB for landlord's breach of obligations and claim damages for inconvenience, stress, lack of facilities as required by the Housing Standards for rented accommodation etc. It's the kind of thing that the PRTB like to hit landlords with.

Right, but what if the OP would like to use this opportunity to break the lease?

odds_on

runawaybishop wrote: »

Right, but what if the OP would like to use this opportunity to break the lease?

If the OP has proof that he advised the landlord / agent more than about 14 days ago, then just serve a notice of termination on the landlord, giving 28 days notice and he can cite the landlord's breach of obligations.

However, the OP will have to find new accommodation within that time frame - but is entitled to the return of the full deposit - less any damage in excess of normal wear and tear.

djimi

odds_on wrote: »

If the OP has proof that he advised the landlord / agent more than about 14 days ago, then just serve a notice of termination on the landlord, giving 28 days notice and he can cite the landlord's breach of obligations.

However, the OP will have to find new accommodation within that time frame - but is entitled to the return of the full deposit - less any damage in excess of normal wear and tear.

If the new fridge appears in the 28 days does the notice still remain valid?

odds_on

djimi wrote: »

If the new fridge appears in the 28 days does the notice still remain valid?

It would then be up to the two parties to mutually agree - if the tenant wishes to move he may and if the tenant would like to remain it would be up to the landlord to accept the reversal of the NoT.

However, if the tenant remains, the time already spent living in the property would count towards his 6 months to acquire his Part 4 rights.

djimi

So if the tenant wishes to leave still they can? Thats what I was wondering; would the arrival of the fridge automatically cancel the NoT.

odds_on

djimi wrote: »

So if the tenant wishes to leave still they can? Thats what I was wondering; would the arrival of the fridge automatically cancel the NoT.

The landlord has had his opportunity to remedy the matter and failed to do so in a reasonable time - thus the tenant served his NoT. If a replacement fridge arrives (new or second hand) it would be up to the two parties to decide if they both want to continue with the agreement or not.

AbigailAC

Thank you all for your assistance. After I sent the letter telling them that I might hold them breach of contract, I had a new fridge.

However, I was only notified of this 3 hours prior to the delivery, so I couldn't be present, and the Auctioneers granted access to the delivery people even if I explicitly told them not to, for security reasons.

I am still upset and don't want anything else to do with these people, whose attitude has been outrageously careless ever since (Clear View Auctioneers from Youghal, by the way).


Can I claim compensation for the 20 days we were without fridge? If I had known I could make my rights be heard, I wouldn't have waited so long.

Is there anything I can do about them entering the place without my permission or presence?

Is there anything else that I can do so this doesn't go just like that, with myself being only damaged?

djimi

Im not sure what you would claim for for those 20 days to be honest. Had you rented a fridge then you would have a receipt to claim back with.

In terms of them letting themselves into your property without notice, that is a serious breach of obligations. You need to seek some external advice (get onto PRTB or Citizens Information) and explain the whole situation, and see what they advice. This company does not give a toss about you or your rights as a tenant, and if it were me Id be looking for any reason to get away from them.

AbigailAC

djimi wrote: »

In terms of them letting themselves into your property without notice, that is a serious breach of obligations. You need to seek some external advice (get onto PRTB or Citizens Information) and explain the whole situation, and see what they advice. This company does not give a toss about you or your rights as a tenant, and if it were me Id be looking for any reason to get away from them.

My point exactly. I can't wait. Thanks for the advice, I will follow it.

AbigailAC

runawaybishop wrote: »

Right, logically for something essential (like food storage) you'd expect to be able t move out asap. Logic is often not applied though.

OP - what did threshold say?

Threshold said:

If there's something that needs repair, and the Landlord won't reply, send a letter asap stating the problem and that it is expected to get fixed within certain time frame (this time frame is not objective and can depend on what the repair is). If the Landlord doesn't take actions that show him taking responsibility on the repair, then the Tenant can send a letter (note) terminating contract. The notice period varies, and it is of 28 days for the first 6 months of contract and around 35 for then on.

AbigailAC

odds_on wrote: »

If the OP has proof that he advised the landlord / agent more than about 14 days ago, then just serve a notice of termination on the landlord, giving 28 days notice and he can cite the landlord's breach of obligations.

However, the OP will have to find new accommodation within that time frame - but is entitled to the return of the full deposit - less any damage in excess of normal wear and tear.

I (OP) have advised the Auctioneers 20 days ago. I was told I needed to send them a letter giving them 3 more days to replace the appliance, which they did - giving us a 3 hour notice we couldn't be present and we explicitly asked not to grant access without us present.

Can I use this to break the lease? If I can, how should I go on about it?

odds_on

AbigailAC wrote: »

Threshold said:

If there's something that needs repair, and the Landlord won't reply, send a letter asap stating the problem and that it is expected to get fixed within certain time frame (this time frame is not objective and can depend on what the repair is). If the Landlord doesn't take actions that show him taking responsibility on the repair, then the Tenant can send a letter (note) terminating contract. The notice period varies, and it is of 28 days for the first 6 months of contract and around 35 for then on.

Incorrect by Threshold.

Where a NoT is served in relation to a breach of landlord's (or tenant's) obligations the notice period is 28 days and does not vary.

AbigailAC

odds_on wrote: »

Incorrect by Threshold.

Where a NoT is served in relation to a breach of landlord's (or tenant's) obligations the notice period is 28 days and does not vary.

Excuse me and allow me to correct this. Threshold is right on this.

Good Tenant Guide, on the PRTB's website: http://www.prtb.ie/docs/default-source/good-tenant-guides/good-tenant-guide-(english).pdf?sfvrsn=4

Page 6 reads:

Termination of a tenancy by the tenant

Notice validity and notice periods
The same criteria for the notice content apply if a tenant is serving it on the
landlord, however no reason needs to be stated if terminating for reasons
other than breach of landlord obligations. The longest notice period that
needs to be given is 56 days as on table on next panel.

Notice Duration - Period of Tenancy
28 days - Less than 6 months
35 days - 6 months or more but less than 1 year
42 days - 1 year or more but less than 2 years
56 days - 2 years or more

It is also possible for the landlord and tenant to agree a shorter period of
notice, but this can only be agreed at the time the notice is given (see
section 69 of the Act).

odds_on

AbigailAC wrote: »

Excuse me and allow me to correct this. Threshold is right on this.

Good Tenant Guide, on the PRTB's website: http://www.prtb.ie/docs/default-source/good-tenant-guides/good-tenant-guide-(english).pdf?sfvrsn=4

Page 6 reads:

Termination of a tenancy by the tenant

Notice validity and notice periods
The same criteria for the notice content apply if a tenant is serving it on the
landlord, however no reason needs to be stated if terminating for reasons
other than breach of landlord obligations. The longest notice period that
needs to be given is 56 days as on table on next panel.

Notice Duration - Period of Tenancy
28 days - Less than 6 months
35 days - 6 months or more but less than 1 year
42 days - 1 year or more but less than 2 years
56 days - 2 years or more

It is also possible for the landlord and tenant to agree a shorter period of
notice, but this can only be agreed at the time the notice is given (see
section 69 of the Act).

RTA 2004 S66 quotes the above table on notice periods in section 66 (3) but earlier in the same section it gives certain exemptions for those notice periods:

66.—(1) This section applies where the tenancy is being terminated—
(a) otherwise than by reason of the landlord’s or tenant’s failure
to comply with any of the obligations of the tenancy,

AbigailAC

odds_on wrote: »

RTA 2004 S66 quotes the above table on notice periods in section 66 (3) but earlier in the same section it gives certain exemptions for those notice periods:

Cheers then, I'm just a damaged OP trying to make sense out of this.

djimi

It wouldnt really make a lot of sense for the normal notice periods to be enforced in this situation, as it would mean having tenants obliged to stick out as much as 2 months of a landlord who has breached obligations. The breach of obligation terms are in place to ensure that tenants do not have to endure a landlord who is not running the tenancy properly, and to give them a legal route out of such a situation.