Bulls or Bullocks

feartuath

I have 9 weanlings bull from my old stock bull out of Rocky, they are February to march calves and roughly 280kg.I sold the bull at 31/2 because he wasn't very tall so these may not grow tall either but are nice stock..
I am keeping these till spring/summer and my question is when or will i casterate these.They are on silage and 3 kgs premium bull nuts at present .
Ok maybe should I sell now.

J.O. Farmer

Firstly if these are 10/11 months old I'm not sure if you could legally castrate them yourself. I think it should be done by a vet once over 6 months.
I know this is an anonymous forum but it's best not to be incriminating oneself by suggesting that they may castrate bulls of that age in the absence of a vet.
Next I think that it would be best to castrate them as I don't think that the performance up to now is fully good enough for bull beef especially as the factories might want them ready under 16 months.
I don't think you will do good enough in the mart to sell them now. They will make nice stores for summer grazing next spring if you can carry them till then.

severeoversteer

judging by weight they would want to be heavier for bull beef,

i have april 2013 calves that were 450kgs a month ago
and the march calves are anything upto 480kg

all charolais

i paid 150 euro a head more for march 2012 charolais bullocks that were same weight

the dear weanlings are worth it

1chippy

280kg calves wouldnt be suitable for bull beef. get them banded and let them off for summer grazing. like some of my own they arent heavy enough for their age. I am trying to bring in more milk, more hybrid and a bigger framed bull to counteract these. creep then to push them on that bit.

Farmer Pudsey

If you are keeping until next summer I would not casterate until the spring. They tend to preform better over the winter. At present they are too light for Bull Beef. However you would need the swelling gone down before selling and if banded the scrotum having fallen off.

I do not know if a suckler cow is justified to rear a 280kg calf.

feartuath

Vet will casterate these as he always has done no help around here for that kind of job. 280 kg would be the lighter of these but they are a long way of 400 kg.i sold the better 6 and they ranged from 420 to 300 kg , 950 to 750 euro.
9 cows culled this year mainly old and runts of cows ,all Hereford/ limousine cross,

Bodacious

feartuath wrote: »

I have 9 weanlings bull from my old stock bull out of Rocky, they are February to march calves and roughly 280kg.I sold the bull at 31/2 because he wasn't very tall so these may not grow tall either but are nice stock..
I am keeping these till spring/summer and my question is when or will i casterate these.They are on silage and 3 kgs premium bull nuts at present .
Ok maybe should I sell now.

done 4 march lads tonight for neighbour.. 2 whites, 2 reds... 3 were grand.. 1 was the worst ive ever done...lad a head of him, man holding tail straight up and rope around the kidney tying him to top bar but he kicked the stars.. got me and the neighbour out through the bars!!


this keeping E950-1000 ch weanlings for the winter and summer at grass to get 1350-1400 next October is beyond me... sell sell sell off of the cow

1chippy

Bodacious wrote: »

done 4 march lads tonight for neighbour.. 2 whites, 2 reds... 3 were grand.. 1 was the worst ive ever done...lad a head of him, man holding tail straight up and rope around the kidney tying him to top bar but he kicked the stars.. got me and the neighbour out through the bars!!


this keeping E950-1000 ch weanlings for the winter and summer at grass to get 1350-1400 next October is beyond me... sell sell sell off of the cow

Think about it another way, sy it takes 600 to keep a cow with an average calf price of 900, taking good with bad.(i wish but sure any way) that leaves 300 for a cow and a calf for the year. if you can get 1350-1400 next october with a very low feed cost or reinvestment or the work associated with a suckler, there might be damn all difference when alls accounted for.I'm just thinking out loud here so could be way off the mark.

Farmer Pudsey

Bodacious wrote: »

done 4 march lads tonight for neighbour.. 2 whites, 2 reds... 3 were grand.. 1 was the worst ive ever done...lad a head of him, man holding tail straight up and rope around the kidney tying him to top bar but he kicked the stars.. got me and the neighbour out through the bars!!


this keeping E950-1000 ch weanlings for the winter and summer at grass to get 1350-1400 next October is beyond me... sell sell sell off of the cow

These are not 900 euro weanlings. more likely 750-800 if they make 3/kg. Do not know if it pays to keep them but if he is keeping he needs to casterate at some stage.

Bodacious

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

These are not 900 euro weanlings. more likely 750-800 if they make 3/kg. Do not know if it pays to keep them but if he is keeping he needs to casterate at some stage.

+1,


id usually have done these calves earlier and sorry now I didn't do them a month ago.. these be 370-380kgs.. one lad starting to get bully looking in head already

huwboy

Bodacious wrote: »

+1,


id usually have done these calves earlier and sorry now I didn't do them a month ago.. these be 370-380kgs.. one lad starting to get bully looking in head already

big old calves to castrate, take it your squeezing them (not banding)?

Farmer Pudsey

Bodacious wrote: »

done 4 march lads tonight for neighbour.. 2 whites, 2 reds... 3 were grand.. 1 was the worst ive ever done...lad a head of him, man holding tail straight up and rope around the kidney tying him to top bar but he kicked the stars.. got me and the neighbour out through the bars!!


this keeping E950-1000 ch weanlings for the winter and summer at grass to get 1350-1400 next October is beyond me... sell sell sell off of the cow

Bod you needed a farmers friend

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bwr6OcLFnuo

Another thing that is illegal in Ireland

limo_100

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

Bod you needed a farmers friend

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bwr6OcLFnuo

Another thing that is illegal in Ireland

well if thats illegal theres a vet in cavan that using one of them to skull cattle brilliant thing

limo_100

Squeezed 6bulls aswell today to trouble with them anyway. I think i might quit the bulls for a year or so and see what the stores are like. There about 350kg charolais. next september they should be up on 600kg plus. Id say theres a fairly good margin in stores without the pressure of bulls. Im actually going to buy 4more before xmas bring it up to 10

Farmer Pudsey

limo_100 wrote: »

well if thats illegal theres a vet in cavan that using one of them to skull cattle brilliant thing

Any form of electrical immobliser is illegal in Ireland as far as I know.

limo_100

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

Any form of electrical immobliser is illegal in Ireland as far as I know.

your probably right but i was helping a neighbour skull a few heifers and the vet used something similar to that thing. Do you thing they should be illegal??

Bodacious

limo_100 wrote: »

well if thats illegal theres a vet in cavan that using one of them to skull cattle brilliant thing

that made me chuckle Limo.. cavan rules!!

Farmer Pudsey

limo_100 wrote: »

your probably right but i was helping a neighbour skull a few heifers and the vet used something similar to that thing. Do you thing they should be illegal??

No purely from a health and safety view point it would make it a lot safer to carry out certain operations on cattle if they were legal.

Bodacious

huwboy wrote: »

big old calves to castrate, take it your squeezing them (not banding)?

yep squeezing.. they weren't over strong .. I know the banding a great job alright just I have the squeezers and bander/bands and 2 shots for tetanus make it expensive and more time consuming for doing small small no.s..


bander be cheap if I got kick in the mouth tho ;-)

Livestockmad

limo_100 wrote: »

well if thats illegal theres a vet in cavan that using one of them to skull cattle brilliant thing

Hush hush unless you would like to hold the tail while he does the job.. :-D

limo_100

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

No purely from a health and safety view point it would make it a lot safer to carry out certain operations on cattle if they were legal.

sure what is it anyway only a strong vibrator id say they be using worse in this new 50shades film :cool:

Farmer Pudsey

limo_100 wrote: »

sure what is it anyway only a strong vibrator id say they be using worse in this new 50shades film :cool:

Jaysus can you imagine if Bod had one and it got mixed up he be on his way to the Dentist and the missus:eek:

huwboy

Bodacious wrote: »

yep squeezing.. they weren't over strong .. I know the banding a great job alright just I have the squeezers and bander/bands and 2 shots for tetanus make it expensive and more time consuming for doing small small no.s..


bander be cheap if I got kick in the mouth tho ;-)

never seen the bander used, always just squeezed, but usually a bit smaller calvees than 350-370kg though! take it you give them two squeezes each side? always do at home

Bodacious

huwboy wrote: »

never seen the bander used, always just squeezed, but usually a bit smaller calvees than 350-370kg though! take it you give them two squeezes each side? always do at home

id give the odd lad a 2nd squeeze if I wasn't entirely happy but ive the smaller burdizzo shorter arms on it closer to the action and I tease string to outside of scrotum just above the testicle and if jaws are exactly where I want it when closed I just leave in position the 10 seconds and give it a kind of a twist before release.. no problems thank god

J.O. Farmer

Livestockmad wrote: »

Hush hush unless you would like to hold the tail while he does the job.. :-D

Why hold the tail for skulling. I think its the head you have to hold.


I know those are supposed to work well but I don't know if I would like to be doing the squeezing on my own without someone on the tail.

huwboy

Bodacious wrote: »

id give the odd lad a 2nd squeeze if I wasn't entirely happy but ive the smaller burdizzo shorter arms on it closer to the action and I tease string to outside of scrotum just above the testicle and if jaws are exactly where I want it when closed I just leave in position the 10 seconds and give it a kind of a twist before release.. no problems thank god

always do a second squeeze, but doubles the length of the job that's all (and doubles the risk of a kick in the nuts!) think it's the biggest burdizzo i use, got more leverage to close it esp if on a big beast. always thought one squeeze is enoguh myself, but old man says it has to be two

Farmer Pudsey

huwboy wrote: »

always do a second squeeze, but doubles the length of the job that's all (and doubles the risk of a kick in the nuts!) think it's the biggest burdizzo i use, got more leverage to close it esp if on a big beast. always thought one squeeze is enoguh myself, but old man says it has to be two

The best way ( that works and the least setback on the animal) is supposed to be to close burdizzo and leave closed for 10 seconds, then open and closed handles in a pumping fashion 2-3 times this is supposed to be the best way to casterate weanlings

Bizzum

I've squeezed a lot of bulls in my time and I close the jaws twice in quick succession. We used to hold it shut for a while but I think they swell less the way I do it now.

huwboy

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

The best way ( that works and the least setback on the animal) is supposed to be to close burdizzo and leave closed for 10 seconds, then open and closed handles in a pumping fashion 2-3 times this is supposed to be the best way to casterate weanlings

ok worth knowing, but not come across that before. Guessing you do that just the once on each side?

Farmer Pudsey

huwboy wrote: »

ok worth knowing, but not come across that before. Guessing you do that just the once on each side?

Yes just the once both sides instead of a double squeeze.

johnpawl

severeoversteer wrote: »

judging by weight they would want to be heavier for bull beef,

i have april 2013 calves that were 450kgs a month ago
and the march calves are anything upto 480kg

all charolais

i paid 150 euro a head more for march 2012 charolais bullocks that were same weight

the dear weanlings are worth it

480kg for a 9 month old calf is serious weight

severeoversteer

johnpawl wrote: »

480kg for a 9 month old calf is serious weight

he was 8 months when i weighed him( and bought him),

they're not cheap though, he was €1015 but better value than a year and a half bullock for same money.

he is being fed well and will be big weight come july

johnpawl

severeoversteer wrote: »

he was 8 months when i weighed him( and bought him),

they're not cheap though, he was €1015 but better value than a year and a half bullock for same money.

he is being fed well and will be big weight come july

I thought I was doing well hitting 530kg at 11 months......!

severeoversteer

johnpawl wrote: »

I thought I was doing well hitting 530kg at 11 months......!

ahh no sure thats good aswell, its down to the breeding and the feeding

im aiming for the bulls to be 750kg at least by end june

epfff

severeoversteer wrote: »

ahh no sure thats good aswell, its down to the breeding and the feeding

im aiming for the bulls to be 750kg at least by end june

Are you adlibing meal or what diet are they on

severeoversteer

epfff wrote: »

Are you adlibing meal or what diet are they on

they are still on grass and 4 kg gluten and bag minerals, when they come in they will have at least 5kg gluten or a mix of gluten and barley, and silage

in middle march they will be on 10 kg of a home mix, mix will probably be barley wheat soya hulls gluten and molasses, will bale a few quality bales of grass during next spring summer aswell for them and kind of zero graze with them bales once ive checked the quality of the silage and its good enough

munkus

severeoversteer wrote: »

ahh no sure thats good aswell, its down to the breeding and the feeding

im aiming for the bulls to be 750kg at least by end june

Can you finish CH at 15 months?

severeoversteer

munkus wrote: »

Can you finish CH at 15 months?

well they will be 17 months on average come the first week in july

Muckit

munkus wrote: »

Can you finish CH at 15 months?

Anyone can do it. Ya lorry the ration into them. As much as they can eat. Not a bother do it.

Sam Kade

Muckit wrote: »

Anyone can do it. Ya lorry the ration into them. As much as they can eat. Not a bother do it.

Until the bill for the ration arrives :eek:

tommy5678

http://www.donedeal.ie/beefcattle-for-sale/bullocks-2/6142859

severeoversteer

tommy5678 wrote: »

http://www.donedeal.ie/beefcattle-for-sale/bullocks-2/6142859

now they are a waste of space

Muckit

There's a run for sir bob in the morning unless puds gets there first!

bob charles

you couldnt go too far wrong with them provided they are free from BVD etc

Farmer Pudsey

They look square and if healthy could take off. It depends on if they are 3 now or next February. At 400 euro there is worse value out there. They could be 700kgs next Christmas.
http://www.donedeal.ie/beefcattle-for-sale/fresian-wealings-for-sale/6141376

http://www.donedeal.ie/beefcattle-for-sale/freisan-bullocks/6092610

I would consider them as good if not better value than either of the above lots,

http://www.donedeal.ie/beefcattle-for-sale/5-hereford-bull-calves/6143991
and way better value than these.

Farmer Pudsey

tommy5678 wrote: »

http://www.donedeal.ie/beefcattle-for-sale/bullocks-2/6142859

Look's like someone took our advice Bob