Importing from Germany....

terrydel · 03-12-2013 2:08pm #1

Im looking at bringing a bike in from Germany, and thought I'd post here for info as it would the same principle as a car and Im sure a lot more of those come in from Germany than bikes.

Anyone got any experience of this?
Its a private sale, the seller has mentioned sending the bike over on temp plates "uberfuhrungs kennzeichen" as theyre known?
These are valid for 14 days.
Is this how its done? Do I then arrive at the NCT for VRT'ing with the bike/car on these plates and with all the documents associated?
I presume the log book refers to the new temp plate?
Also, I presume the docs are in German and probably need translating for our VRT people?

Any help greatly appreciated,
Cheers,
Terry.

Quebec Delta Mike · 03-12-2013 2:37pm

Terrydel,

Save yourself a lot of potential grief, just ring or call in to any NCT/VRT centre and ask what is acceptable. The Revenue rules in this area are very clear, but best have them explained by an expert.

Opinion: The "temporary" plate, put on in Germany, will only confuse the issue here. I recently bought an imported bike, from it's owner, who had moved here from Europe. The bike had been ridden here by him, for some time on its foreign plate. To keep everything legal and simple, before money changed hands between us, the previous owner "imported" the bike first, payed the VRT, got the new Irish reg number, then sold it to me.

Just my tuppence worth...

QDM.

terrydel · 03-12-2013 2:41pm

Quebec Delta Mike wrote: »

Terrydel,

Save yourself a lot of potential grief, just ring or call in to any NCT/VRT centre and ask what is acceptable. The Revenue rules in this area are very clear, but best have them explained by an expert.

Opinion: The "temporary" plate, put on in Germany, will only confuse the issue here. I recently bought an imported bike, from it's owner, who had moved here from Europe. The bike had been ridden here by him, for some time on its foreign plate. To keep everything legal and simple, before money changed hands between us, the previous owner "imported" the bike first, payed the VRT, got the new Irish reg number, then sold it to me.

Just my tuppence worth...

QDM.

Cheers, I've spoke to nct already but this was before the owner mentioned the idea of temp plates.
I will of course call them tomorrow and seek clarity on that issue.
Thank you.

bear1 · 03-12-2013 2:56pm

Ok, I have some experience with the process of exporting from Germany.

Unless the person drives the bike over then here is what you will need to do.

1) The bike/car does need to be "un-registered" what happens is that you will bring the car/bike to a special office (essentially its a big car park where you will wait for a few hours) they take the documents off of you and begin the process of registering the item into your name.

2) After a few hours (I waiting nearly 4 hours) the person will come back with a new document with the item now in your name legally. What you now need to do is pay the insurance and the temporary plates.

3) With the insurance you have a choice of how long you will need it. I think max is 1 month. Buy the 1 week one as it's the cheapest.

4) Pay the total balance due (for a multijet Punto we paid about 2/300 Euro in fees and insurance

5) Stick on the plates and drive away

CiniO · 03-12-2013 4:41pm

The most cruicial question OP is how you want to transport this bike back to Ireland?
Are you going to ride it on the road, or are you going to ship it somehow (in a van, courier, truck, whatever...) ???

terrydel · 03-12-2013 6:30pm

CiniO wrote: »

The most cruicial question OP is how you want to transport this bike back to Ireland?
Are you going to ride it on the road, or are you going to ship it somehow (in a van, courier, truck, whatever...) ???

I'm getting it shipped in, that's the plan.
What's the significance of that?

Cheers.

CiniO · 03-12-2013 6:51pm

terrydel wrote: »

I'm getting it shipped in, that's the plan.
What's the significance of that?

Cheers.

If you are having it shipped (meaning it won't be ridden on public roads), then you don't need any temporary plates.

General rule in Germany is that owner needs to deregister vehicle before selling it to foreigner for export. Otherwise he will be liable for paying tax and insurance (I assume). That's why no one within right mind will sell you a vehicle with German number plates for export.

There is an option to buy temporary plates with insurance, so you can drive (ride in your case) a vehicle on public roads, preferbly to ship it home that way.

But as you are not planning to ride it, then you don't need it.

You will need to take a vehicle book (Fahrzeugbrief), which is issued when vehicle is new (first registered in Germany) and is transferred from owner to owner. It contains f.e. list of all previous owners.
Also owner has a registration certifiace (Fahrzeugschein), but once he deregisters vehicle, he will have to hand it down to the office, and he will get deregistration certificate (Abmeldebescheinigung).
On sale he will have to hand you down those two documents - vehicle book (Fahrzeugbrief) and deregistration certificate (Abmeldebescheinigung).
Those 2 must be enough to present in VRT centre to register a vehicle in Ireland.
You might also get last test certificate, but you won't need that in Ireland because afaik there is no need for vehicle testing for motorbikes here.
Also it's probably the best if you sign with seller a contract of sale - just a document containing all his details (name, address, etc), your details, and vehicle details, and stating that he is selling vehicle to you. Signed and dated by both in two copies one for each party. This might also come in handy for VRT inspection to prove purchase date. I'm not sure but possibly also seller will need this to deregister vehicle in Germany.

If you are not going to be there for transaction (you are just using courier or something), then make sure courier will take the vehicle book (Fahrzeugbrief) and deregistration certificate (Abmeldebescheinigung) with him, as proof that motorbike is legal (not stolen) is he is checked on the border.

In Ireland you also won't be able to ride it (as it won't have number plates), so you will have to ship it on trailer or sth to NCT centre for VRTing, and only once it's registered you can ride it.

Generally then, no point in getting any temporary plates from Germany, as this would cost extra.

terrydel · 03-12-2013 7:01pm

CiniO wrote: »

If you are having it shipped (meaning it won't be ridden on public roads), then you don't need any temporary plates.

General rule in Germany is that owner needs to deregister vehicle before selling it to foreigner for export. Otherwise he will be liable for paying tax and insurance (I assume). That's why no one within right mind will sell you a vehicle with German number plates for export.

There is an option to buy temporary plates with insurance, so you can drive (ride in your case) a vehicle on public roads, preferbly to ship it home that way.

But as you are not planning to ride it, then you don't need it.

You will need to take a vehicle book (Fahrzeugbrief), which is issued when vehicle is new (first registered in Germany) and is transferred from owner to owner. It contains f.e. list of all previous owners.
Also owner has a registration certifiace (Fahrzeugschein), but once he deregisters vehicle, he will have to hand it down to the office, and he will get deregistration certificate (Abmeldebescheinigung).
On sale he will have to hand you down those two documents - vehicle book (Fahrzeugbrief) and deregistration certificate (Abmeldebescheinigung).
Those 2 must be enough to present in VRT centre to register a vehicle in Ireland.
You might also get last test certificate, but you won't need that in Ireland because afaik there is no need for vehicle testing for motorbikes here.
Also it's probably the best if you sign with seller a contract of sale - just a document containing all his details (name, address, etc), your details, and vehicle details, and stating that he is selling vehicle to you. Signed and dated by both in two copies one for each party. This might also come in handy for VRT inspection to prove purchase date. I'm not sure but possibly also seller will need this to deregister vehicle in Germany.

If you are not going to be there for transaction (you are just using courier or something), then make sure courier will take the vehicle book (Fahrzeugbrief) and deregistration certificate (Abmeldebescheinigung) with him, as proof that motorbike is legal (not stolen) is he is checked on the border.

In Ireland you also won't be able to ride it (as it won't have number plates), so you will have to ship it on trailer or sth to NCT centre for VRTing, and only once it's registered you can ride it.

Generally then, no point in getting any temporary plates from Germany, as this would cost extra.

Cheers mate, a very comprehensive reply there.
I may still have him put the plates on, hes paying, and it means I can ride it to nct here. You reckon that will not cause more confusion?
Much appreciated,
Terry.

CiniO · 03-12-2013 7:05pm

terrydel wrote: »

Cheers mate, a very comprehensive reply there.
I may still have him put the plates on, hes paying, and it means I can ride it to nct here. You reckon that will not cause more confusion?
Much appreciated,
Terry.

I'm not sure if he (the seller) will be able to get temporary plates in your name. Maybe he will (I just don't know).
I'm also not sure what the cost will be, but I assume it might be over 100 or even more than 200 euro to do it.

If only use for that is for you to ride it from your home to NCT centre, then possibly better option is to ask him not to do it but reduce the price of bike instead by this couple of hundred. This will easily pay you for shipping bike from your home to NCT centre, and you will be left with a good change.
But that's just my advice. If you really prefer to have it on German export plates - then sure you can - but as I said - I'm not sure if you don't need to be there personally to arrange that.

terrydel · 03-12-2013 7:54pm

CiniO wrote: »

I'm not sure if he (the seller) will be able to get temporary plates in your name. Maybe he will (I just don't know).
I'm also not sure what the cost will be, but I assume it might be over 100 or even more than 200 euro to do it.

If only use for that is for you to ride it from your home to NCT centre, then possibly better option is to ask him not to do it but reduce the price of bike instead by this couple of hundred. This will easily pay you for shipping bike from your home to NCT centre, and you will be left with a good change.
But that's just my advice. If you really prefer to have it on German export plates - then sure you can - but as I said - I'm not sure if you don't need to be there personally to arrange that.

Thanks,

I presume the temporary plates are to be in my name? Thats how it should work?
He called them überführungs Kennzeichen
Is that something you are familiar with?

Cheers,
Terry.

CiniO · 03-12-2013 8:15pm

terrydel wrote: »

Thanks,

I presume the temporary plates are to be in my name? Thats how it should work?

I don't really know.
I'd imagine they should be (in the name of person who bought the vehicle), but maybe I'm wrong.
And I also don't know if it's possible for someone else to get them in your name or not.

But anyway - you won't be needed or of any use for registering bike here in Ireland.

He called them überführungs Kennzeichen
Is that something you are familiar with?

Quick google search on this returned that page in English (change flag on top right to english)
Have a look:
http://www.transit-plate.com/

terrydel · 03-12-2013 8:53pm

CiniO wrote: »

I don't really know.
I'd imagine they should be (in the name of person who bought the vehicle), but maybe I'm wrong.
And I also don't know if it's possible for someone else to get them in your name or not.

But anyway - you won't be needed or of any use for registering bike here in Ireland.

Quick google search on this returned that page in English (change flag on top right to english)
Have a look:
http://www.transit-plate.com/

I think you are right, they will be in the name of the seller. He has said he will get these so I guess thats how it works.
My only concern then is that the vehicle book and registration cert have the old reg number on them do they not?
This is where I get confused!

CiniO · 03-12-2013 9:01pm

terrydel wrote: »

I think you are right, they will be in the name of the seller. He has said he will get these so I guess thats how it works.
My only concern then is that the vehicle book and registration cert have the old reg number on them do they not?
This is where I get confused!

Yes, they will be on original old number plate.
But it doesn't matter. This new registration which you are talking about is only temporary and is completely irrelevant.
During VRT inspection it shouldn't be looked at.
It's even probably better to take it off once you get to NCT centre, not to confuse the VRT inspector (he might not be familiar with what it is)
All you will need is vehicle book (Fahrzeugbrief) and deregistration certificate (Abmeldebescheinigung) which will point out to old registration number (which you won't have) and correct VIN.

BTW - as I pointed out above - it's deregistration cert, because original registartion certificate which you mentioned, will need to be submitted by previous owner in germany together with set of his number plates, and he will get this deregistration certificate (Abmeldebescheinig) in exchange which he will give to you.

terrydel · 03-12-2013 9:06pm

CiniO wrote: »

Yes, they will be on original old number plate.
But it doesn't matter. This new registration which you are talking about is only temporary and is completely irrelevant.
During VRT inspection it shouldn't be looked at.
It's even probably better to take it off once you get to NCT centre, not to confuse the VRT inspector (he might not be familiar with what it is)
All you will need is vehicle book (Fahrzeugbrief) and deregistration certificate (Abmeldebescheinigung) which will point out to old registration number (which you won't have) and correct VIN.

BTW - as I pointed out above - it's deregistration cert, because original registartion certificate which you mentioned, will need to be submitted by previous owner in germany together with set of his number plates, and he will get this deregistration certificate (Abmeldebescheinig) in exchange which he will give to you.

Ok, I will pass those names to him, he will be happy because they are in German!
He has aready de-registered it he told me, so should have those docs.
He has sent me some scans of docs, if I sent them on can you tell me which one is which?
You have been very helpful, thank you very much indeed.

CiniO · 03-12-2013 9:25pm

terrydel wrote: »

Ok, I will pass those names to him, he will be happy because they are in German!
He has aready de-registered it he told me, so should have those docs.
He has sent me some scans of docs, if I sent them on can you tell me which one is which?
You have been very helpful, thank you very much indeed.

Heh.
Just to warn you - I don't speak German, so I might not be able to help here. Names I've given you in German were googled.
All I know about it is because I was involved once in buying car from Germany, but that would be about it.

terrydel · 03-12-2013 9:28pm

CiniO wrote: »

Heh.
Just to warn you - I don't speak German, so I might not be able to help here. Names I've given you in German were googled.
All I know about it is because I was involved once in buying car from Germany, but that would be about it.

No worries,
On closer inspection of the scans hes sent me, I can see one is the vehicle book - Fahrzeugbrief and the other is theRegistration certificate - Fahrzeugschein
One I am missing is the De-registration certificate - Abmeldebescheinigung
I will ask for a scan of this.
Its a lot clearer now!

CiniO · 03-12-2013 9:40pm

terrydel wrote: »

No worries,
On closer inspection of the scans hes sent me, I can see one is the vehicle book - Fahrzeugbrief and the other is theRegistration certificate - Fahrzeugschein
One I am missing is the De-registration certificate - Abmeldebescheinigung
I will ask for a scan of this.
Its a lot clearer now!

If he gives you Registartion cert (Fahrzeugschein), then this together with Fahrzeughbrief will be all you need to register it in Ireland.

I only though that he won't have reg cert after deregistering the vehicle (as that's what normally happens), and in that case you would need this de-registartion cert.

But one of two will do (either reg cert of de-reg cert)

terrydel · 03-12-2013 9:43pm

CiniO wrote: »

If he gives you Registartion cert (Fahrzeugschein), then this together with Fahrzeughbrief will be all you need to register it in Ireland.

I only though that he won't have reg cert after deregistering the vehicle (as that's what normally happens), and in that case you would need this de-registartion cert.

But one of two will do (either reg cert of de-reg cert)

Grand job.
I wil confirm it all with him tomorrow.
He seems a good, honest guy, a bit green about all this stuff like myself.
Hoping to have it all agreed and get it done in January once Christmas is over.
He has it at his local dealership who he bought it from, so I assume they can help him.
Cheers mate.

Importing from Germany....

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