Do Counselor work?

ShowMeTheCash

So I have a situation whereby my sister has been seeing a counselor.

My sister is a single mom and for the most part she does a good job.
She is fairly independant... Every now and then I might bail her out of some kind of financial fix..

That being said over the last 15 years or so of her being an adult she has made a number of poor choices more so do to with relationships...
In other words she has dated some real scumbags, allowed herself to get into debt so as to go on a holiday with her mates etc.. etc..

A number of times through out her life I have basically called her on this, and felt the need to explain that her life is not simply her own, everything she does has an impact on her son.

So I think she is a point at her life, perhaps a turning point where if anything I think she is beginning to realise this and she wants to make some positive steps to ensuring she is happy and her son is happy... So she began to see a counselor.

What I have noticed in the last few months she is now talking a little strange she seems to be focused on blaming the mistakes in her life to her child hood....

Now my upbringing with my sister and brother I think no different to the norm...
My mum and dad had ups and downs, my Dad can be difficult at times, set in his ways...

She seems to be fixated on little events, like the fist time my dad caught her smoking and went nuts... Now i mean he shouted at her she was like 14... First time she tried to sneak in or sneak out... Usual teenage stuff...

For some reason she now believes that these events basically set her on a path of making poor chioces, bad relationships and being irrisponsible....

And I think these sessions with the counselor are reinforcing what I think is a fabricated "broken" childhood that simply is not a reflection of what her life was like...

I kind of confronted her about this, as I kind of had to stop her in her tracks and ask her, what the hell are you talking about....

I just said look...

Half the crap you pulled when you where in your teens came about by the group of girls you ran around with... As you got older this group all had kids in their teens and none of which where married, they all dated complete scumbags that have spent most of their adult lives in and out of prison...

The reason half the crap you have had to endure happened is due to the people you associate with and has little to do with our parents...

Has anyone else had a similar experience??

Semele

Why does it bother you so much OP? You seem quite controlling towards her and have very definite ideas of how she should be living her life. It's the personal meaning of events that have an impact on people and just because your experience was different from hers doesn't mean one is right and the other wrong...you're different people with different personalities and something that might be water off a ducks back to you might have made a deeper impression on her. If you're right that she is making an effort to turn her life around then leave her to it, tbh, it's a very personal process and she doesn't need someone telling her she's wrong all the time.

Faith

Your perception of her life is just that - a perception. Every child has different parents, meaning how your parents were to you may be completely different from how your parents were to her. What you see as inconsequential may have had a huge impact on her. Many people from the outside looking in would think I had a brilliant childhood when in fact it was extremely difficult and has left me with a lot of issues that need work as an adult.

As Semele says, you seem weirdly controlling of her. I don't think this is your first thread about her either, is it?

You did not live her life. You cannot say what it was like. Stop trying to control her and let her grow and deal with her issues without interfering.

ShowMeTheCash

I would not say I am controlling at all.
My sister has always done what she wants...

But I am the brother she calls when her ex boyfriend hit her and I am the guy that landed up to "sort out" that situation...
I am also the one she called when she is so far behind in her rent she is being threatened with eviction to bail her out.

The above two scenarios are not one offs either, it appears to be a theme!

She also tricked me into giving her money, which I thought was for bills but in reality turned out to be for a trip she was going on...

My sister does what she wants until she messes up then I get a call to come fix it.

Technically I could leave her to fix her own mess but at the same time I have a nephew also... I help her out and do the usual "I told you so"...

But relatively I have no other input into her life...

The issue really only came about due to a conversation I had with my mother who she left in tears... By unloading "in my opinion" all of her past indescressions at my parents feet!

Obliq

Yes, and I wouldn't be surprised if you came up for discussion either OP. I don't mean that in a good OR bad way, but your sister has decided she needs to talk about her life and her issues and is coming to her own realisations and conclusions (that are never set in stone btw, I know my own realisations about my life have changed and continue to change as I grow and acknowledge things about myself and others along the way..).

Anyhow, the more a person stands on their own two feet, the more apparent the forces that held them back from taking charge of themselves - be it being your own worst enemy, or be it having a controlling sibling or parent. Sounds to me like she's doing a super job of getting a grip. Her own grip, nobody else's. And I doubt if she needs reminding who else she is responsible for, if she's responsible enough to want to examine her own patterns of behaviour and where they might spring from within herself (for example, as an unconscious reaction towards control from others - just to give you one from my personal repertoire of realisations).

I wish her well on her journey towards many more insights, and to never stop learning how things can change.

Edit: Your post above arrived during me typing OP. It does sound more like she's been her own worst enemy from this post now, but has she been making any strides in NOT getting into so much bother recently? When you say 'theme', how recent was the last episode?

Obliq

ShowMeTheCash wrote: »

The issue really only came about due to a conversation I had with my mother who she left in tears... By unloading "in my opinion" all of her past indescressions at my parents feet!

This bit has really got to you eh? Well, parents are often left in tears - hate to say it. I had a few things to (rightly or wrongly) point out to my folks years ago, and also left my mum in tears. Nowadays, we have a great relationship because it was at that point that we started to talk things out. Sure, it started with the blame game, and there were rows and discussions and avoidance of issues....but gradually it all came out in the wash and we're all the better for it. I can now look back and say 'ok, so my childhood wasn't perfect (who's is?) and I was unhappy a lot. Ok, so my parents f*cked up a good few times, but they're human, and now I'm an adult I realise how hard adulthood and parenting are'.

But mate, it took a lot of talking out before I got to this point. I applaud your sister for making a start, but ffs, don't contradict her experience. Like another poster said, that's not your experience.

ShowMeTheCash

Oh I did come up for discussion, my sister and I have always been pretty open with each other....

But my fear is this, my sister is a master at manipulation... She always has been.
I hope she gets the help she needs and that it does not prove to be a negative influence in her life.

But I do feel she is heading down a path of "you did not buy me a pony when I was 5 thanks mammy an daddy you ruined my life"

My know my sister she will eat that up!!! Wait a second.. So your telling me... The reason I didn't pay the eclectic bill is not because I am irresponsible it's all my mam and dad's fault... Cool I will have that!

Recent drama is only 2/3 months old.... Gardi and solicitors involved in that one, ex boyfriend and ex boyfriends ex girlfriend... Something you would expect to see on eastenders!!!

December2012

Counselling is all about the client working things out. Sometimes it takes a roundabout way to get there.

I think you criticising her while she's doing this is unhelpful, and probably indicative of the way you feel about your sister - she's a feckless eejit who needs you to solve her problem and fix it. Read over what you said about the abusive boyfriend - you realise you're coming across as if she put you in that position on purpose right?

her talking to her mother about her experience of their relationship is none of your business.

You should think about why you are getting so bothered by her sorting out her life.

ShowMeTheCash

Faith wrote: »

Your perception of her life is just that - a perception. Every child has different parents, meaning how your parents were to you may be completely different from how your parents were to her. What you see as inconsequential may have had a huge impact on her. Many people from the outside looking in would think I had a brilliant childhood when in fact it was extremely difficult and has left me with a lot of issues that need work as an adult.

As Semele says, you seem weirdly controlling of her. I don't think this is your first thread about her either, is it?

You did not live her life. You cannot say what it was like. Stop trying to control her and let her grow and deal with her issues without interfering.

I am not stupid I am very aware of everyone having their own experience...

But I also think we need to draw a line under certain things... Yes someone may deem their childhood somewhat difficult... But perhaps they where always going to find their childhood difficult regardless of their environment.... It is hard to truly know why people turn out the way they turn out.

I think we are all impacted by our environment some more than others.
But ultimately people sometimes are just irresponsible and selfish... Does there have to be an under lying reason??

I was deemed an "enabler" I enabled her to be irresponsible and selfish being I bail her out....

Seems like a cop out to me.

First time I have ever talked about my sister on boards or anywhere else of that matter, stick to the info Colombo before you know it 2+2 will equal blue!

December2012

Fine - you have your way of thinking about things.

And she has hers.

They're different - it doesn't mean you're right.

Obliq

ShowMeTheCash wrote: »

Oh I did come up for discussion, my sister and I have always been pretty open with each other....

But my fear is this, my sister is a master at manipulation... She always has been.
I hope she gets the help she needs and that it does not prove to be a negative influence in her life.

Sorry, not getting that. What does not prove to be a negative influence? Anyhow, good that you hope she has help.

But I do feel she is heading down a path of "you did not buy me a pony when I was 5 thanks mammy an daddy you ruined my life"

My know my sister she will eat that up!!! Wait a second.. So your telling me... The reason I didn't pay the eclectic bill is not because I am irresponsible it's all my mam and dad's fault... Cool I will have that!

TBH showmethecash, whatever about the truth (subjective truth) of this, you possibly need to talk things over with someone as well? I would have had some issues with my 'perfect' brother - who of course is no more perfect than I am, but I always saw him as the 'golden boy'. Nobody else did, just me You are entitled to your own take on your sister, but be aware that it's entirely coloured by your own feelings about this "who's getting away with it" stuff that siblings are so good at!

Recent drama is only 2/3 months old.... Gardi and solicitors involved in that one, ex boyfriend and ex boyfriends ex girlfriend... Something you would expect to see on eastenders!!!

To which I would say, oh bugger. That sounds awful, and fierce hard on everyone involved. Nobody gets into that kind of mess for the sh*ts n giggles, and nobody comes out of it unscathed eh? Your sister has finally realised she needs counselling, for example. Good move.

Look, I do see what you're saying although it seems I'm siding with your sister. That would be ridiculous, as I know neither of you. However, how you are coming across is as someone who has a fixed idea of how she is and her motives. Your 'she's manipulative enough to blame her irresponsibility on others' is another person's 'she never felt the need to take control of herself before, and why not?'. Perhaps she's only taking a look at that aspect of herself for the first time. It'll take time for some personal insights.

ShowMeTheCash

December2012 wrote: »

Counselling is all about the client working things out. Sometimes it takes a roundabout way to get there.

I think you criticising her while she's doing this is unhelpful, and probably indicative of the way you feel about your sister - she's a feckless eejit who needs you to solve her problem and fix it. Read over what you said about the abusive boyfriend - you realise you're coming across as if she put you in that position on purpose right?

her talking to her mother about her experience of their relationship is none of your business.

You should think about why you are getting so bothered by her sorting out her life.

In fairness i did not say a whole lot... She was talking to me and used words like abusive childhood... I simply asked what abuse? Perhaps this is a roundabout approach you are talking about....

Her abuse is in the form of my dad basically letting her know how disappointed he was when she messed up.... So I am not exactly sure what he was suppose to do there...

As for the a abusive boyfriend... She is an adult... Why tell me at all? It not that I think she does it on purpose... But she has an inability to handle it in her own... What's that? That guy you where dating... The one you knew beat up your friend when he dated her hit you a slap???

She once told my brother a similar story which got completely out of hand, my brother landed at the guys house was all a bit of a mess!!

I then had to tell her not to tell him anymore as he will land himself either in jail or hospital or worse!

I find it annoying.... I understand people make mistakes.... Honest mistakes... But when my sister sometimes embarks on something I can almost tell you how it is going to end before it does.... Funny thing is any nice guys she ever dated she never seemed to interested in them whatsoever!

ShowMeTheCash

Obliq wrote: »

Sorry, not getting that. What does not prove to be a negative influence? Anyhow, good that you hope she has help.



TBH showmethecash, whatever about the truth (subjective truth) of this, you possibly need to talk things over with someone as well? I would have had some issues with my 'perfect' brother - who of course is no more perfect than I am, but I always saw him as the 'golden boy'. Nobody else did, just me You are entitled to your own take on your sister, but be aware that it's entirely coloured by your own feelings about this "who's getting away with it" stuff that siblings are so good at!



To which I would say, oh bugger. That sounds awful, and fierce hard on everyone involved. Nobody gets into that kind of mess for the sh*ts n giggles, and nobody comes out of it unscathed eh? Your sister has finally realised she needs counselling, for example. Good move.

Look, I do see what you're saying although it seems I'm siding with your sister. That would be ridiculous, as I know neither of you. However, how you are coming across is as someone who has a fixed idea of how she is and her motives. Your 'she's manipulative enough to blame her irresponsibility on others' is another person's 'she never felt the need to take control of herself before, and why not?'. Perhaps she's only taking a look at that aspect of herself for the first time. It'll take time for some personal insights.

Lol - just need to check you are not actually my sister
In her session the term "golden boy" was also used to describe me.

I have an aunt that suffers from depression, her whole life she has blamed the entire world for how things turned out. From counsellor to religion she has tried to get her life on track... I just never seem to happen for her...
She has alienated her own family through out her life...
Now my mum and her sister and brothers do try with her but understandably it can be difficult and they all have families and essentially their own lives to worry about...

Maybe I just don't want my sister to end up like her!
I think you have the wrong impression... This is not about her getting away with anything, I simply want to be able not to worry about her! Maybe in a big brotherly simplistic view..... Enough of the bull**** and just wise up!!

I don't get this? Who is giving you all this information? Your sister? Christ, OP, you're coming across as extremely aggressive and are getting uppity with people because some people are not agreeing with what you are saying.

You should be happy that your sister is receiving treatment because she saw it as a big enough problem to do so.

December2012

If you want things to be different then you have to change your behaviour. You can't change hers.

You want to stop worrying? Then stop making her problems your problems.

Stop blaming her for your actions and the actions of your brothers.

Be her brother, not her Dad.

Faith

ShowMeTheCash wrote: »

My know my sister she will eat that up!!! Wait a second.. So your telling me... The reason I didn't pay the eclectic bill is not because I am irresponsible it's all my mam and dad's fault... Cool I will have that!

Counselling has two stages: 1. Understanding how you came to be as your are 2. How are you going to fix it. You can't fix a problem without understanding it. Your sister needs to understand why she is irresponsible before she can work on tackling it.

At the end of the day, the only person you can control is yourself. You're not responsible for anyone else's issues so let them go. Only they can deal with them.

Obliq

ShowMeTheCash wrote: »

Lol - just need to check you are not actually my sister
In her session the term "golden boy" was also used to describe me.

Yeah....I'm not wrong about the brother/sister dynamics then?! I can safely say that (even tho we've a FAB friendship now, and are as rock steady as when we were at our closest as kids) I'd not be the go-to person for an unbiased opinion on my bro, or he about me...

I have an aunt that suffers from depression, her whole life she has blamed the entire world for how things turned out. From counsellor to religion she has tried to get her life on track... I just never seem to happen for her...
She has alienated her own family through out her life...
Now my mum and her sister and brothers do try with her but understandably it can be difficult and they all have families and essentially their own lives to worry about...

Maybe I just don't want my sister to end up like her!
I think you have the wrong impression... This is not about her getting away with anything, I simply want to be able not to worry about her! Maybe in a big brotherly simplistic view..... Enough of the bull**** and just wise up!!

Ohhh, I guess you wish eh? Aww, I know that one. I don't know that you exactly have a right not to worry about her (and I know you didn't say you had...), any more than any of us have a right to a 'happy' life with no problems or dilemmas. We get who we're dealt. I often have felt for the folks dealt with me....now, not so much but when I was a problem, then I did. Do you think your sis feels like she is a problem for you all? And yes, alienating my family was something that came up as an option. I hope you'll say to your sis that you don't want her to go that road.

Been off-line for the last hour since I started this post, but I'll post it anyway, no matter what transpired in the meantime.

Obliq

Deleted User wrote: »

OP, you're coming across as extremely aggressive and are getting uppity with people because some people are not agreeing with what you are saying.

I'm not seeing that. I'm seeing 'thinking out loud', and quite well really...

You should be happy that your sister is receiving treatment because she saw it as a big enough problem to do so.

He said he was happy about her getting treatment, but yes - Hasn't said he was happy that she recognised the problem herself.

December2012 wrote: »

If you want things to be different then you have to change your behaviour. You can't change hers.

You want to stop worrying? Then stop making her problems your problems.

Stop blaming her for your actions and the actions of your brothers.

Be her brother, not her Dad.

Now, ain't that all the truth. We could all try and get a grip on that one, if we haven't already. It's a standard thing to do though, eh? Making other people's problems our own (as if we had power to change them), because they worry us.

Semele

ShowMeTheCash wrote: »

Yes someone may deem their childhood somewhat difficult... But perhaps they where always going to find their childhood difficult regardless of their environment.... It is hard to truly know why people turn out the way they turn out.

I think we are all impacted by our environment some more than others.
But ultimately people sometimes are just irresponsible and selfish... Does there have to be an under lying reason??

The first paragraph there is very true, OP! but I don't necessarily see it the way you do! Maybe your sister was always going to find her childhood difficult (again, she's inherently a different person to you, therefore the same environment will be experienced very differently). I don't see that that makes her experience of it being difficult less valid than yours. That is how counselling works- it helps you to recognise the impact of your environment on you and also how your behaviour as an adult keeps the pattern going. No good counsellor tells someone everything is all someone else's fault and leaves it at that!

Also, I don't really get why your title was about whether counselling works? You don't seem interested in hearing anything other than your own opinion, based on the mental health and personality difficulties of people you know (which according to you they should just get over!).

Your sister sounds difficult, I won't argue with that. But that is a sign of dysfunction and it's great she's addressing it. No one chooses to go through life being a tw*t but people can and do get stuck in unhelpful and self-fulfilling patterns/roles. TBH, while we all have some responsibility for the roles we inhabit other people can often make it difficult for us to step out of them, and that's what you are doing. Every post of yours is just knocking your sister down again despite others pointing out that it seems she is taking some responsibility for making changes. Can't you see that your fixed idea of what she's like is going to make it very difficult for her to be otherwise? If I had someone telling me how messed up and selfish I was all the time I'd probably start to believe it.

Inasmuch as your sister seems to have been stuck in certain ways of behaving, so are you I think. You seem very invested in your own role as the one who always knows best and comes in to save the day. The roles that we inhabit are very resistant to change, but they are also dependant on our relationships with other peoples roles. Your sister making changes is likely to change the dynamics of your relationship and your role in it, and you are coming across as very threatened by this.

P.S. An invalidating environment can do a lot of damage to a person. If your sister has had years of her every decision being treated like a problem waiting to happen by your family, that will do damage and lead to resentment. Stop telling her what she can and can't feel. If it bothers you then don't engage with it.

ShowMeTheCash

Look I see why people perhaps think I am shooting down their ideas.
However I think where I gave a little information people have began drawn their own conclusions and pulling from their own experiences and relationships in their own lives....

In terms of the dynamic, I do not see my sister every day, maybe once a month on average.. (I work away from home)

In terms of my contact with her she would call me if she needs me to do something and vice versa.

Usually during the Summer I get up a little more so take my Nephew places...
But other than that there is no dynamic, I could honestly say I do not know any of her friends and and from day to day have no idea what she does or does not do.
I am usually happy in the knowledge she appears to be doing OK.

I see a lot of pseudo science here where people are trying to workout my role within my relationship and my sister....

My question was not for a tribe of people to try and understand the relationship with my sister, my question was more around does counselling actually work?? Has anyone had any experience with people who has under went counselling...

A few people have made some good comments that have made me think (So thanks for that)
The idea of the long way round... Perhaps she is at a stage where she it trying to identify why she thinks the way she thinks etc.. etc..

It was more the discussion I had with my sister at the weekend just left me shocked in the terminology she is using to describe her childhood...

When someone uses the word abuse people automatically think physical or something more sinister.

What my sister seems to be describing was some kind of emotional void or low selfesteme, that was rooted at an early age....

Personally I think my parents done the best job they could do, she seems to feel differently.

December2012

To answer your direct question - yes counselling can work. I have to qualify that because like any treatment there are no guarantees.

Big Bag of Chips

Only time will tell if counselling works for your sister. It has taken years for her to get to this point. So it won't get fixed in a,session or 2.

You might be better off revisiting that question in 18 months, 2 years, 4 years etc to see if it worked for your sister. She's only starting. But it IS a start. So already there's one small change she is making.

Your attitude towards her comes across as quite superior. It must be difficult to always feel like the failure in a family. And I guess that's how your sister has been feeling inside since she was a teenager. Give her a chance. Give the counselling a chance. And just wait and see what happens.

You've waited this long with her, after all, what's another few months/years?

ShowMeTheCash

Big Bag of Chips wrote: »

Only time will tell if counselling works for your sister. It has taken years for her to get to this point. So it won't get fixed in a,session or 2.

You might be better off revisiting that question in 18 months, 2 years, 4 years etc to see if it worked for your sister. She's only starting. But it IS a start. So already there's one small change she is making.

Your attitude towards her comes across as quite superior. It must be difficult to always feel like the failure in a family. And I guess that's how your sister has been feeling inside since she was a teenager. Give her a chance. Give the counselling a chance. And just wait and see what happens.

You've waited this long with her, after all, what's another few months/years?

Perhaps and yes we will see...

LegacyUser

op i felt compelled to post, especially when i saw this,

''What my sister seems to be describing was some kind of emotional void or low selfesteme, that was rooted at an early age....

Personally I think my parents done the best job they could do, she seems to feel differently''

i've gone, and am still going through councelling due to that emotional void and low self esteem that you mention. and in my case it was drilled into me since i was very young. so i can empathise with the big step your sister has taken to sort her life out. it's a long road, and it's certainly not an easy quick fix that maybe you think it is. that's the way it's coming accross in your posts anyway. you don't just go to councelling and 'get fixed', it's a process with a number of steps along the way.

some of my siblings had completely different childhoods, and i have to accept that. just as you do. when you say ''Personally I think my parents done the best job they could do, she seems to feel differently'' it sounds to me like you're trying to be right, that maybe you resent these things she's mentioned because they weren't YOUR experience so therefore they can't possibly be HERS. but that's just not the way it works. neither of you are right, you're just different.

Wednesday Addams

OP, you need to support your sister, not berate her for the strength she's showing in seeking help.

ShowMeTheCash

I understand there are no quick fixes.
And I am not even trying to say that what my sister felt and went threw is not real to her...

But given the example... My sister will say she did not feel loved!
But my sister was loved, my parents love her very much as do I and my brother...

So is the issue that whether or not my sister was actually loved?
Or what my sister actually felt?

My sister felt my parents where dissapointed in here... Again my parents will say for the most part they never felt dissapointed, granted everyone makes mistakes and people inevitably feel dissapointed at somethings... But would that not fall into a normal relationship?

My concern again was my sister seem to be at a stage where she wants to point the finger and say "You did not love me" and I felt like this because I felt I let you down.... etc etc...

You mention:

"in my case it was drilled into me since i was very young"

Again this is your experience or your perception of what happened.

It is a weird situation.

"I got into drugs cause my parents where too easy going and it messed me up when I was older"

"I got into drugs cause my parents where too strict and I needed to rebel and it messed me up when I was older"

Too much too little is there a right answer?
I understand people who go through these things are usually trying to help themselves understand why they feel a certain way or do certain things.

I once dated a girl who was bipolar she used to blame everyone for how she felt, her mum, her dad, me, her ex's etc.. etc......
She later told me she knew deep down that none of these people where responsible, she was trying to deal with a mental illness which she could not make sense off and it was all she could do...

None of this is easy... But I was just making the point that just because you or my sister deem something to be a certain way and I don't does not really mean that anyone it correct...

December2012

Look at the first few lines of your post - it's about how SHE feels. Not what is the truth as you or your parents see it. Right now, she "feels" certain ways. Counselling will help her figure out the truth of it and what she is to do about it.

Big Bag of Chips

You can't know what your sister felt. She probably knows that your parents loved her, but that doesn't mean she felt like they loved her growing up. You say yourself she fell in with a bad crowd. Had some bad relationships, is a single mother etc... Whether or not your parents were tough on her during all these times is irrelevant.. you sister was probably tough ON HERSELF, and believed everyone else felt the same disappointment in her as she felt in herself.

These are all very valid feelings, and I'm guessing your sister is now just starting to work her way through them. You are a different personality to your sister. You are confident, assured and secure in your life. But I'm guessing even you have moments of doubt or insecurity sometimes? Your sister just had these more than you did, and believed her own bad publicity... She probably thought : Sure if I can't be happy in myself or love myself, how can I expect others to?

People are complicated, and very very different. Even siblings, growing up in the same environment.