Hulkenberg 2014

Gorman700

Nico Hulkenberg overlooked for the Lotus seat in favour of Mr.PDVSA for next year.

Maldonado had a STINKER this season. The Williams was a dog to be fair but Bottas was tidy in it and IMO gave a good account of himself on and off the track. Pastor the with his rubbish about how his car had been sabotaged. What was that about?

Anyway, what does Hulk have to do to get a big drive, seriously considering jacking in 17 years of fanatical following of F1.

This bull **** is doing my head in, Hulk side stepped BIGTIME, Senna gone, Kobayashi gone and Kovaleinen gone from the grid the likes of Chilton, Van Der Garde, Pic getting drives, albeit with back markers. I mean Di Resta had a rubbish season, Kobayashi, dropped like a hot snot last season after putting in some serious drives (lacked a little consistency) and Di Resta still hanging about.

What are people's thoughts?

ZiabR

We have been discussing this in the "General Thread" take look. But, yes it is very annoying to say the last. Only one thing to blame... the FIA. Their reluctance to introduce a budget cap means smaller teams are forced to hire people with money instead of people with talent. Look at Max Chilton, he is BRUTAL, yes he set a new Rookie record this year for most finishes BUT he was at the back of the grid on his own so not too tough.

Gorman700

logik wrote: »

We have been discussing this in the "General Thread" take look. But, yes it is very annoying to say the last. Only one thing to blame... the FIA. Their reluctance to introduce a budget cap means smaller teams are forced to hire people with money instead of people with talent. Look at Max Chilton, he is BRUTAL, yes he set a new Rookie record this year for most finishes BUT he was at the back of the grid on his own so not too tough.

I agree completely about Chilton, he's rubbish. I also agree about the FIA it's a bloody circus and no longer a sport.

Charlie-Bravo

Kovy and the Hulk are two great drivers...We need a team like USGP or whatever they were called to come bank rolling a team and paying drivers to do their job which is be amazing!

Gorman700

astrofluff wrote: »

Kovy and the Hulk are two great drivers...We need a team like USGP or whatever they were called to come bank rolling a team and paying drivers to do their job which is be amazing!

Keep dreaming I'd say! Would love to see some mega bucks invested to just let the talent race the talent and get the pay drivers out.

ZiabR

Gorman700 wrote: »

Keep dreaming I'd say! Would love to see some mega bucks invested to just let the talent race the talent and get the pay drivers out.

Sadly that will never happen. Paid drivers have been in the sport since the beginning, it is just a fact of the sport. Not many teams can take drivers who don't bring money.

Only the likes of McLaren, Ferrari and Mercedes can take a punt with talent.

El_Duderino 09

Gorman700 wrote: »

Nico Hulkenberg overlooked for the Lotus seat in favour of Mr.PDVSA for next year.

Maldonado had a STINKER this season. The Williams was a dog to be fair but Bottas was tidy in it and IMO gave a good account of himself on and off the track. Pastor the with his rubbish about how his car had been sabotaged. What was that about?

Anyway, what does Hulk have to do to get a big drive, seriously considering jacking in 17 years of fanatical following of F1.

This bull **** is doing my head in, Hulk side stepped BIGTIME, Senna gone, Kobayashi gone and Kovaleinen gone from the grid the likes of Chilton, Van Der Garde, Pic getting drives, albeit with back markers. I mean Di Resta had a rubbish season, Kobayashi, dropped like a hot snot last season after putting in some serious drives (lacked a little consistency) and Di Resta still hanging about.

What are people's thoughts?

I agree with almost everything in this post. However I don't think Botas was as much better than Mr PDVSA as people are making out. Maldonado seems like a prize twat and I can't help feeling he has offended the journalists this year because he was seriously attacked by them in the last few races. Botas was marginally better on track and seems like a gentleman off track.

FWIW the fact that Maldonado is keeping Hulk out of a Lotus next year doesn't endear him to any F1 fans but I still think the gap between him and Botas was exaggerated by the media.

11811

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I agree with almost everything in this post. However I don't think Botas was as much better than Mr PDVSA as people are making out. Maldonado seems like a prize twat and I can't help feeling he has offended the journalists this year because he was seriously attacked by them in the last few races. Botas was marginally better on track and seems like a gentleman off track.

FWIW the fact that Maldonado is keeping Hulk out of a Lotus next year doesn't endear him to any F1 fans but I still think the gap between him and Botas was exaggerated by the media.

Well Botas did score 4 times the points Maldonado did! :pac: I see your point, both drivers are very quick, however it was hard to tell in this years Williams.

Maldonado is a quick driver, there is a bit of talent there - for instance his win in Spain - but his perceived attitude both on and off track leaves a lot to be desired. And this is a big part of F1 racing these days, here there is quite a gulf between the two. I reckon Bottas well do better out of the two in coming years.

El_Duderino 09

11811 wrote: »

Well Botas did score 4 times the points Maldonado did! :pac: I see your point, both drivers are very quick, however it was hard to tell in this years Williams.

Maldonado is a quick driver, there is a bit of talent there - for instance his win in Spain - but his perceived attitude both on and off track leaves a lot to be desired. And this is a big part of F1 racing these days, here there is quite a gulf between the two. I reckon Bottas well do better out of the two in coming years.

Unfortunately the fact that maldonado will be sitting in a lotus means he is likely to outscore both hulk and boats next year. The F1 world just ain't fair.

Gorman700

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Unfortunately the fact that maldonado will be sitting in a lotus means he is likely to outscore both hulk and boats next year. The F1 world just ain't fair.

Your right, it's just become a joke man!

Zcott

Gorman700 wrote: »

Your right, it's just become a joke man!

It always has been a joke but now it's a very expensive joke. It was Pedro Diniz in the late 90s and there were a number of cheap rent-a-drivers with cash back then. It's an unfortunate fact that racing is expensive and the best drivers don't always get the best seats.

Gorman700

Zcott wrote: »

It always has been a joke but now it's a very expensive joke. It was Pedro Diniz in the late 90s and there were a number of cheap rent-a-drivers with cash back then. It's an unfortunate fact that racing is expensive and the best drivers don't always get the best seats.

I hear you, just doing my head in that it's come this far up the grid to Lotus. Before it was confined to the bottom 2/3 teams. It's not as if Maldonado is on par with Diniz but when theirs better talent available it grinds my gears. I'd love to know what Hulkenbergs story is with regards what sponsorship he brings.

ScumLord

Hulkenberg has a lot of popular support behind him after such a great season, I wonder is there any way he could try for direct funding from fans through something like kickstarter. I know kick starter itself wouldn't be suitable but something along those lines.

H3llR4iser

logik wrote: »

We have been discussing this in the "General Thread" take look. But, yes it is very annoying to say the last. Only one thing to blame... the FIA. Their reluctance to introduce a budget cap means smaller teams are forced to hire people with money instead of people with talent. Look at Max Chilton, he is BRUTAL, yes he set a new Rookie record this year for most finishes BUT he was at the back of the grid on his own so not too tough.

In all fairness the FIA did want to introduce a budget cap and tried to do so, it was somebody else that had a problem with it. Somebody worried they'd have their arse kicked by "minor" teams if they lost their enormous financial edge; Somebody that, in the end, got their arses kicked by a drinks company. Somebody wearing red...

Zcott wrote: »

It always has been a joke but now it's a very expensive joke. It was Pedro Diniz in the late 90s and there were a number of cheap rent-a-drivers with cash back then. It's an unfortunate fact that racing is expensive and the best drivers don't always get the best seats.

Man, Diniz was nowhere half as bad as people think - he used to score consistently and never really paled even when teamed with highly regarded drivers such as Alesi and Hill. The fact he was a "rich boy" who brought in sponsorship ended up hurting him in the long run. Now, if we want to talk about Ricardo Rosset or Taki Inoue, that's another story...

ZiabR

H3llR4iser wrote: »

In all fairness the FIA did want to introduce a budget cap and tried to do so, it was somebody else that had a problem with it. Somebody worried they'd have their arse kicked by "minor" teams if they lost their enormous financial edge; Somebody that, in the end, got their arses kicked by a drinks company. Somebody wearing red...

The thought that Ferrari "ARE" F1 is long dead.

In my eyes, NO team is bigger than the sport, and NO team should be allowed to stand in the way of budget caps. Without budget caps, there will be no F1. The smaller teams are going to find things even harder next year. The cost is going to double in 2014.

If we dont see a budget cap in F1, smaller teams will leave the sport leaving only 6-7 teams, making the sport very boring. Also, without a budget cap, smaller teams may be forced into customer cars or even mergers (which were already discussed for the 2013 and 2014 season) further ruining the sport.

And finally this idea of driving for Ferrari is the holy grail is F1 is total bulls**t. You ask Alonso, would you have given up your Ferrari seat to be racing a Red Bull the last 3 seasons, he would say yes, and any Ferrari driver would say yes. Drivers want to win, thats the bottom line.

I suppose what I am trying to say is, F1 is to political now and it is a crying shame that small/middle teams are suffering just to appease the ego of one team.

This is all coming from a Ferrari fan by the way. Sometimes their bullying methods disgust me.

donspeekinglesh

Nico Hulkenberg rejoins Force India

frostie500

H3llR4iser wrote: »

In all fairness the FIA did want to introduce a budget cap and tried to do so, it was somebody else that had a problem with it. Somebody worried they'd have their arse kicked by "minor" teams if they lost their enormous financial edge; Somebody that, in the end, got their arses kicked by a drinks company. Somebody wearing red...

It's worth noting that Red Bull's operating budget for Formula 1 is consideribly bigger than any other team with RBR spending more than the likes of Merc and Ferrari even though they do not manufacture their own engines.

Personally I'm against budget capping. If you can raise 500 million you should be able to spend it as you wish. If you can only raise 60 million you need to prioritise where you spend. Formula 1 isn't supposed to be about parity it's about the best team and driver combination winning races and in fairness that's what we've seen happen over the last four years.

Ferrari get a lot of bad press, quite a bit of it is their own making!, but noone in F1 wanted the budget caps except for the teams that were coming into the sport.

ZiabR

frostie500 wrote: »

Personally I'm against budget capping. If you can raise 500 million you should be able to spend it as you wish. If you can only raise 60 million you need to prioritise where you spend. Formula 1 isn't supposed to be about parity it's about the best team and driver combination winning races and in fairness that's what we've seen happen over the last four years.

But would you watch a sport with only 4-5 teams, with the same winner every year? It has got nothing to do with priority when it comes to spending. It has to do with the competitive aspect of the sport. People were already starting to give out this year when Red Bull and Vettel won again. It becomes repetitive and boring. This affects the sport in a negative way. Sky/BBC have already come out to say viewers dropped considerably this year. When tv viewers drop and venues don't sell out, (I saw alot of half full stands at many races this year) something needs to change.

It is the viewers and fans that bring the money to F1, both directly and indirectly. Without high viewing numbers it becomes hard to attract sponsors to the sport and then the downward spiral starts.

They NEED to get a handle on spending.

ZiabR

On another note, happy for Hulk, its the best he could get with the teams that were left.

logik

logik wrote: »

with the same winner every year?

It's only been 4 years :pac:

ZiabR

Deleted User wrote: »

It's only been 4 years :pac:

I know you are only trying to wind me up!!! but seriously, you can't say it was not slightly boring seeing the same car on pole and winning for the last 9 races of the season. I want to avoid another Schumacher era if I am honest.

logik

logik wrote: »

I know you are only trying to wind me up!!! but seriously, you can't say it was not slightly boring seeing the same car on pole and winning for the last 9 races of the season. I want to avoid another Schumacher era if I am honest.

Careful, you'll get called a hater if you keep this up :P

frostie500

logik wrote: »

But would you watch a sport with only 4-5 teams, with the same winner every year? It has got nothing to do with priority when it comes to spending. It has to do with the competitive aspect of the sport. People were already starting to give out this year when Red Bull and Vettel won again. It becomes repetitive and boring. This affects the sport in a negative way. Sky/BBC have already come out to say viewers dropped considerably this year. When tv viewers drop and venues don't sell out, (I saw alot of half full stands at many races this year) something needs to change.

It is the viewers and fans that bring the money to F1, both directly and indirectly. Without high viewing numbers it becomes hard to attract sponsors to the sport and then the downward spiral starts.

They NEED to get a handle on spending.

Completely agree that the same driver winning races can be boring and that it can lead to people turning off the sport but that's not the end of the world. F1 is a sport financed by long term TV deals and not sponsorship and even when numbers fall Bernie still finds a way to sell his product effectively. The domination of Red Bull isn't solely as a result of spending it's a by product of stable regulations that the best package will rise to the top over a five year period. For much of the Vettel era of the last four years he's faced pretty stiff competition with the exception of the second half of the season.

I don't think that we'd ever realistically get into a position where we have 4-5 teams in the sport. Lotus are in a bad situation because their owners gambled on buying the team to cash in and make a tidy profit. It hasn't worked out like that but when an investment buys a football team, a rugby team or an F1 team they are in it to make a quick buck and get out ASAP rather than for the good of the sport. That's a bigger issue for me personally than spending.

Spending doesn't define the competitiveness of the sport. The main advantage that spending has given Red Bull over the last few years is that it has allowed them to do a fantastic job of retaining staff in recent years. There is a huge turnover of staff in F1 but Red Bull have kept their big players (and a lot of lesser known engineers) on their payroll. They've obviously spent heavily to do this but now we are seeing those engineers look to leave the team and move to new pastures and more responsibility with another team.

When these engineers leave there will be a void to be filled at Red Bull and it will hurt them. It's the same as what we saw at Williams, Ferrari, McLaren and Renault over the last 20 years. It's exceptionally difficult to sustain the success of Red Bull, sustaining their spending is easy however!

How would you get a handle on spending? Budget caps don't work because what happens to outsourced parts? What happens if Red Bull or Ferrari just forms a shell company to manufacture their suspension arms or their carbon fibre bodywork? Instead of having to pay 50 employees and take on the R&D and manufacturing costs they could just purchase the parts for $100 and free up huge amounts of budget.

Budget caps don't work. Headcount limitations don't work. There isn't an easy solution to limiting spending in F1. It's not a feeder series it's the tip of the pyramid and needs to be maintained as that. Even now with so many limitations in place the teams still astound and you need to have faith that the current order will change....because it certainly will. Red Bull were irrelevant for years as Stewart, Jaguar and Red Bull with only flashes of promise. A rule change brought that to the front just as it could for another team next year.

SnowDrifts

He has signed a "multi-year" contract? :mad::( A driver of his talent can't afford to waste much more time in a mid field team. So the Ferrari rumour for 2015 is out?

Myrddin

SnowDrifts wrote: »

He has signed a "multi-year" contract? :mad::( A driver of his talent can't afford to waste much more time in a mid field team. So the Ferrari rumour for 2015 is out?

Like any good contract, I'm sure it has certain clauses in it which suit Nico

andyman

I reckon he's happy to enter a "multi-year" contract because it implies that Force India might have a useful car next season, especially if the rumours about the Merc engines being the ones to be on next season as well.

We can all hope, they're the closest thing we have to an Irish team (don't start..you all know what I mean..) along with one of our favourite drivers on the grid in the car :pac:

Charlie-Bravo

What, like say Eddie Jordan buys Force India, and doesn't have to change the livery (except for taking off the chakra wheels)?!

andyman

I'm trying to find more reasons to like FI instead of just because they have Hulk in the team

Jordan 199

andyman wrote: »

I'm trying to find more reasons to like FI instead of just because they have Hulk in the team

Don't FI have the Jordan DNA

smellslikeshoes

logik wrote: »

The thought that Ferrari "ARE" F1 is long dead.

In my eyes, NO team is bigger than the sport, and NO team should be allowed to stand in the way of budget caps. Without budget caps, there will be no F1. The smaller teams are going to find things even harder next year. The cost is going to double in 2014.

If we dont see a budget cap in F1, smaller teams will leave the sport leaving only 6-7 teams, making the sport very boring. Also, without a budget cap, smaller teams may be forced into customer cars or even mergers (which were already discussed for the 2013 and 2014 season) further ruining the sport.

And finally this idea of driving for Ferrari is the holy grail is F1 is total bulls**t. You ask Alonso, would you have given up your Ferrari seat to be racing a Red Bull the last 3 seasons, he would say yes, and any Ferrari driver would say yes. Drivers want to win, thats the bottom line.

I suppose what I am trying to say is, F1 is to political now and it is a crying shame that small/middle teams are suffering just to appease the ego of one team.

This is all coming from a Ferrari fan by the way. Sometimes their bullying methods disgust me.

Ferrari would be the most vocal opponent but it would be more than just them against it, the 5 biggest teams would never let a budget cap happen it just isn't in their interest. If someone tries to force it through the big teams will use the nuclear option of threatening to make their own series. The threat of Ferrari, RBR, Merc, Mclaren, Lotus leaving would be all that would be needed to make the talk of a budget cap disappear.

ZiabR

Myrddin wrote: »

Like any good contract, I'm sure it has certain clauses in it which suit Nico

I believe that his contract has in it somewhere "if a big teams comes in for me, I am free to go". Not as straight forward as that but I would doubt FI would block a future move to McLaren/Merc/Ferrari etc.

Myrddin

logik wrote: »

I believe that his contract has in it somewhere "if a big teams comes in for me, I am free to go". Not as straight forward as that but I would doubt FI would block a future move to McLaren/Merc/Ferrari etc.

Yeah agreed, I'd say there's a definite escape path should he want one

Gorman700

Jesus I hate Maldonado. F*ck 2014. I'm out!!

ZiabR

Gorman700 wrote: »

Jesus I hate Maldonado. F*ck 2014. I'm out!!

Thats a little crazy no? We are all pissed that he got the Lotus seat but its not going to make us stop watching. Sure we are on the cusp of MAJOR changes to the sport, good times ahead, fingers crossed.

Gorman700

logik wrote: »

Thats a little crazy no? We are all pissed that he got the Lotus seat but its not going to make us stop watching. Sure we are on the cusp of MAJOR changes to the sport, good times ahead, fingers crossed.

Nah, slower cars, increasing politics. Pay drivers now in the upper eschelons of the sport. I'll watch BSB or WSB.

ZiabR

Gorman700 wrote: »

Nah, slower cars, increasing politics. Pay drivers now in the upper eschelons of the sport. I'll watch BSB or WSB.

There are big changes alright. It is not looking too good, but I am going to wait until we see what the 2014 season actually has in store for us.

Gorman700

logik wrote: »

There are big changes alright. It is not looking too good, but I am going to wait until we see what the 2014 season actually has in store for us.

If Melbourne comes and that smiling joyful bollix Vettel wins I'm gone!!!:D:mad:

andyman

I don't mind if Vettel wins as long as he's made work for it. No fun watching him go out in front then nobody able to catch him.

ZiabR

Depends very much on the Renault engines reliability/power output and also the car that Newy gives Vettel.

ScumLord

andyman wrote: »

I don't mind if Vettel wins as long as he's made work for it. No fun watching him go out in front then nobody able to catch him.

I think that will be the main challenge for next year. Vettel's the man to beat.

ZiabR

ScumLord wrote: »

I think that will be the main challenge for next year. Vettel's the man to beat.

He has been the man to beat for the past 4 years. Going to be an interesting year. I wonder what team if any will have a head start on Red Bull in 2014.

Ross spoke of the 2014 Merc as a VERY impressive car.

ScumLord

logik wrote: »

He has been the man to beat for the past 4 years. Going to be an interesting year. I wonder what team if any will have a head start on Red Bull in 2014.

Ross spoke of the 2014 Merc as a VERY impressive car.

I think the other teams will have to have a better car than red bull to beat Vettel. He ended this season going 2 seconds a lap faster than his teammate in the same car. So everyone else has to make up the gap that the RBR car itself has had over the rest of the field and then they need to make up that gap that Vettel can get out of the car.

Although what I wouldn't want to see is Vettel in a really crappy car and unable to compete. I want to see him wheel to wheel and racing. We've been denied it long enough now.

ZiabR

ScumLord wrote: »

Although what I wouldn't want to see is Vettel in a really crappy car and unable to compete. I want to see him wheel to wheel and racing. We've been denied it long enough now.

Agreed, that is all we want to be honest. Would love to see him battling with the field. He throws the toys out of the pram when things arnt going his way, will be interesting to see how he handles it.