ATH Knockout match: Campo vs Hashtag_heel

Bounty Hunter

now time to decide the last 2 Quarter finalists and first off for the first spot in that QF bracket is Campo vs Hashtag_heel. For this match up I would like to thank JP Liz for submitting the question via pm, a question which im sure will make for some interesting reading.

Simplified version of the rules:

I will post a topic and you have to post your response including why you made that choice within a given time limit (before the next match is scheduled to begin), take care while making your responses however as the other contestant can counter your arguement i.e pointing out possible flaws in what youve said.

*you can only counter an arguement two times so make sure your point is worth making. If someone's defense of their arguement isnt good it will count against them.

*You can use the same answer as your opponent if you wish i.e you agree with their choice however its hard to win a debate when your making the same points someone has already made

see the OP of the main thread for further details or if any examples are needed check out previous years competitions.

Q2: If you could bring in one wrestler to WWE (who never was there previously) from anywhere who would it be, why and how would have them debut, gimmick and feud with etc.,?


after your first post: why would your choice be better than your oponents?

---

so have at it and g'luck lads!

campo

Hashtag_Heel (Sting)

A great question , I hope I can do it a justice

For me there is only one choice, a man that has never worked for WWE , a man that has all the tools to make it as a top star and that man is

Austin Aries

I would have Aries debut with a gimmick similar to Batistas just before he left, the cocky heel wearing sunglasses all dressed up to the nines.
He would cut promos on how no other superstar in the WWE looks as good as him or is as good as him in the ring, he would start off with a few squash matches against the likes of Zach Ryder & Marella , he would then go on a run for the IC title ( probably against Kofi ) saying how it is a disgrace such a prestigious title is around the waist of someone who is not worthy of it.

They would feud for a couple of weeks before a PPV where Aries would beat Kofi for the IC title, he would then go to cut a promo saying that he is a fighting champion and he will defend his title each week on Raw and if someone out there has was it takes then come and get it...

Eventually of course he would need to drop the title ( after a few months ), I would book it where he does not look weak, have him drop it without even being pinned in a triple threat match up.

I would then give him a couple of weeks off screen before eventually coming back in the middle of a Daniel Bryan promo, where he tells Bryan he has changed , he is not the man he used to be that he is gone all corportate ( I would have Bryan as WWE Champ ), both would then feud leading up to a title match a mania..


Aries leaves as champion and so begins a new era in WWE the smart era

Hashtag_HEEL

There was two guys who I was stuck between but in the end there was only one man for the job:

The Icon Sting (2000 sting)



I'd have him debut at the Royal Rumble after weeks of eerie vignettes. He comes in at number 18 (descending from the rafters WCW style) and at number 20 it's THE UNDERTAKER!
Both men clear house leading to the two men facing off. There's a staredown and a test of strength (neither man budge). Everybody knows what's up. Another man enters the ring and attacks both. Eventually they clothesline each other out of the ring.

The next night on Raw Sting cuts a promo on Taker and his history in the WWE (Mainly the streak) and how he got a rush last night. He says how he's wanted to do something for a long time and finally has a chance to do it. End the streak. He issues a challenge for Wrestlemania XXX. Taker comes out and accepts.




Sting says that he'll beat the streak and as a way of proving this he'll issue an open challenge to any of Undertakers opponents at Elimination Chamber. This challenge is met by Kane. Sting hits a low blow on Kane and heads for the back.

At Elimination Chamber there's a good back and forth match. Neither man is clearly in the lead. As Stinger is setting up for the Scorpion death drop on Kane the lights go out and when the come back on Kane is gone and Undertaker is across from Sting. Stinger runs at Taker and the two brawl until Taker hits the tombstone.

The next night Taker explains that there's one obstacle standing in his way of being 22-0 and being recognised as the greatest of all time. He says he doesn't want a question mark left over his legacy and his streak and at Mania sting will Rest in Peace.

The next week it's announced that Taker will enter the Hall of Fame before Mania. Sting Cuts a promos saying that he's the man with the Hall of Fame career and at Wrestlemania he'll show the world that 21-0 is hall of fame worthy but beating Taker is too.

The final week before Mania, Sting is in the ring cutting a promo similar to the one above. The lights flash up to the rafters and someone comes down like sting (mask and all) he reveals a baseball bat and goes to hit Sting. Stinger ducks and rolls out of the ring. Smiling smugly at the top of the ramp while taker rolls his eyes and growls.

Sting does not appear at the HOF ceremony, but taker contemplates his career and says that he may not go to 23-0

Finally we hit Mania
It's the final match on the card. A promo package has just aired of the two mens extensive careers and their recent interactions. Sting enters first on a zipline from the top of the arena through the darkness with only one spotlight. He stands in the centre of the ring staring out at the ramp. DONG! Lights cut again as undertaker is escorted to the ring by 21 druids. He flips his hood and we see the deadman.

The match goes for the first 35 mins in which both men try to outdo the other and pick up the win. The final sequence (10mins) is sting hooking the drop but deciding to move into a tombstone instead. He hits it and gets a nearfall. Taker and Sting begin to brawl. Finally Sting is bested and Taker gets him with a tombstone. He gets the win and we hit 22-0 and taker retires gracefully. Post match both men hug and shake hands. Sting raises takers arm and walks to the back.



Sting goes on Hiatus until close to summerslam at which point he comes back as Joker Sting and challenges for the WWE title having interfered in the champs affairs

campo

Hashtag_Heel (Sting)

My learnered friend Captain obvious sorry I mean Hashtag Heel has gone for the Icon Sting....

In your opening post you had a pic of Sting with the year 2000 in brackets , well im afraid you would not be getting the 2000 Sting you would be getting the 2013 Sting, Yes a 55 year old man who is long past his prime and what would you do with this 55 year old man you would put him in the ring with a 48 year old man The Undertaker.

Now you wrote the angle really well, I will give you that hell I would even go as far as to say Sting vs Taker would draw at mania.

But that is where it would end, as the fans would realise that both men are past their primes , there is no longevity with a Sting in WWE storyline unlike Aries.

Austin Aries is in the prime of his career at 35 and unlike you I am proposing bringing in a new era to the WWE not a one night only draw ( that could be done by bringing The Rock back for a night )

Imagine a WWE with people like Aries, Bryan, Punk, Ziggler, Roman Reigns , Sandow , Cesaro & Tyler Black now that is a WWE that has longevity that is a WWE where you could have multiple angles and that is a WWE where the wrestlers can hold their own

So the question really is ladies and gentlemen do you want a WWE where for one night only you get to mark out or do you want a WWE with a new fresher era that each week when you tune in you know you will see something new and original

Aries would be like a breath of fresh air in the WWE, He could even give other superstars the push they need, as an example you could team him with Ziggler as the Show offs , both great in the ring and on the mic but with Aries help this could also propel the career of Ziggler, whos career could Sting propel....no ones probably not even his own as fans would tune in to see the Sting of yester year but instead would only get a shadow of the man he used to be..

End result Sting gets left go and we go back to the old ways of Cena vs Orton

Hashtag_HEEL

Granted, Sting has aged a fair bit but if his run in TNA is anything to go by he's still a great performer. As is Taker. They could both draw big money and at the end of the day that's what the business is all about. Making Money

The fans would hopefully get behind the fact that he's still quite good but not in his prime. As I said at the end of my OP he would be coming back for a match with the champ leading to a title run.

Aries is in his prime, I'll give you that. He's a great wrestler and is very entertaining. However he's probably not Vince's idea of a main eventer. He'd have loads of people to work with but only in the mid-card. Daniel Bryan wasn't given a fair shake with the title and neither was Punk. The fed doesn't like fresh or new. They rehash storylines frequently and go back to the ol' reliables. Why? They draw money regardless of how the internet react and the smarks whine.

Aries would be chewed up and spat out by the fed. Sting would get a Heroes welcome and be placed on a pedestal because he's a draw.

I picked sting because it's a realistic scenario that would draw big bucks and excite the fans for the big 30th Mania.

I believe the real question is if you would prefer an unrealistic IWC dream that we'd love to happen but will probably fail or have the REAL once in a lifetime match between two of the greatest of all time?

Aries would be a breath of fresh air (amongst the mid-card) until creative drop him and he ends up in NXT. He'll also be minging of TNAs foul odour to Vince and as had it has always been in his mind "Their Main Eventers are my Mid-Carders". Sting would be given the benefit of the doubt as to the fact that he'd been WCWs main guy and they own the majority of his career at the moment (Until they buy out TNA of course).

Sting has a wealth of knowledge and can give the rub to many guys on the roster and could even go to NXT as a trainer following this final run. Pair him with a guy with a similar style maybe paint him up and have 'em feud after a while. I can's see Aries propel anyone let alone himself as he probably won't get a fair chance.

End result, Sting has one last run and says goodbye and thanks to the fans and goes on to help other talent, while Aries sits in Florida waiting to be called back up from developmental to main event superstars each week.

campo

Hashtag_Heel (Sting)

Granted, Sting has aged a fair bit but if his run in TNA is anything to go by he's still a great performer. As is Taker

I would have to disagree with this statement that Sting is still a great performer good maybe but great alas no more

The fans would hopefully get behind the fact that he's still quite good but not in his prime. As I said at the end of my OP he would be coming back for a match with the champ leading to a title run.

You may hope they would but fans are much more smart now then in previous times and they would see it for what it is, a gimmick by Vince to make a quick couple of bucks and nothing more

. Daniel Bryan wasn't given a fair shake with the title and neither was Punk. The fed doesn't like fresh or new. They rehash storylines frequently and go back to the ol' reliables. Why? They draw money regardless of how the internet react and the smarks whine

Regards Bryan not getting a fair shake with the title I would agree with this but being honest he didn't and still does not need the title he is over as it is, Punk had the title for over 400 days so he had a fair shake at it, you also say the old reliables draw money but the truth is that the draw rate for PPVs are dropping and quick, Vince is anything but a fool he knows if you want to sell something then people will want to buy it and not buy it once but over and over again

And your final few points about creative not pushing Aries etc, people like Punk, Bryan , Ziggler etc has shown that they are good enough to push themselves, week in week out they put in 5 star performance in the ring and cut great promos etc

People like Aries does not need the backing of creative he would get the backing of the fans and thats when WWE really stands up and take notice


You may say IWC is just an internet dream I say IWC is the future of WWE and it has already begun with Bryan, Kings of Wrestling, Punk, El Generico etc all ready to bring the WWE to the next level all they need now is cherry on the top of that cake and that cherry is Austin Aries

Hashtag_HEEL

I would have to disagree with this statement that Sting is still a great performer good maybe but great alas no more

Good or great he's still got that special something that fans still love. Whether it be nostalgia or actual talent (which he has much of) he'll have the fans coming back for more

You may hope they would but fans are much more smart now then in previous times and they would see it for what it is, a gimmick by Vince to make a quick couple of bucks and nothing more

They'll see it and they'll lap it up! Mania 28 did great business with the "Once In A Lifetime" schtick. This would truly be once in a lifetime and of course we get the result that makes everyone happy.
The dream match that draws a ton of money

Regards Bryan not getting a fair shake with the title I would agree with this but being honest he didn't and still does not need the title he is over as it is

I agree he doesn't need the title to be over but with Cena being out of the Main Event for two PPVs he didn't draw. Hardcore fans like us loved Bryan as champ. At the end of the day Hardcore Wrestling fans are in the minority to the kids. They'll always win over with guys like Orton and Cena because they can draw. Hence Bryan getting flung to the mid-card with the Wyatts.

Punk had the title for over 400 days so he had a fair shake at it, you also say the old reliables draw money but the truth is that the draw rate for PPVs are dropping and quick, Vince is anything but a fool he knows if you want to sell something then people will want to buy it and not buy it once but over and over again

Punk had 434 days with the main title and only main evented 3 PPV's with it. That's by no means a fair shake. I'm Punks biggest fan but even I could tell he was holding Cenas title until he was finished his 3 year programme with the Rock. Hardly a fair shot.
I know Vince is no fool but at the end of the day he needs money. That's what the business is all about. He'll make money off of Cena and milk him dry for as long as he needs. Until someone can step into the shoes of Cena, Orton and the like and be over with both Kids and Smarks alike we won't see guys like Bryan, Ziggler, Punk, Aries etc make it to the REAL main event.

And your final few points about creative not pushing Aries etc, people like Punk, Bryan , Ziggler etc has shown that they are good enough to push themselves, week in week out they put in 5 star performance in the ring and cut great promos etc

They can get themselves over but look at Ziggler for instance. All the talent in the world. Money in the bank winner and World Champ all from being quite over with fans. We're in December and he's found himself back down the card again. Why? He didn't draw with the kiddies. He didn't get a Cena pop or sell a ton of merch and sell out PPVs. He was given a push and was stalled instantly. I'd assume that Aries would suffer the same fate and in WWE where politics run wild I could only assume that TNA would have tainted him in Vinces eyes and that he's not his idea of the face of the company anyway!

People like Aries does not need the backing of creative he would get the backing of the fans and thats when WWE really stands up and take notice

*COUGH RYDER/ZIGGLER COUGH*
Aries hasn't got a snowballs chance in hell of making it to the top spot of the fed. Fans aren't going to get behind him as we would. I love the guy but I'm being realistic. Fans will get him over but unless he puts arses in seats and eyeballs on screens he's no use to vince as a Main Eventer and will while away his contact down in NXT or on Superstars..

You may say IWC is just an internet dream I say IWC is the future of WWE and it has already begun with Bryan, Kings of Wrestling, Punk, El Generico etc all ready to bring the WWE to the next level all they need now is cherry on the top of that cake and that cherry is Austin Aries

I'm not saying the IWC is an internet dream. I'm saying that Aries idea of succeeding are. He's not what kids want and he's not what Vince wants. At the end of the day they're the opinions that out weigh yours and mine.

It hasn't begun either. Punk and Bryan are in a worse position than they were a few months back. Cesaro is trying to work an awful gimmick out (I'll be honest Cesaro is probably the only one on this list who'll succeed as he's what people want). Chris Hero is back on the indies because he wasn't what the wanted (not marketable again Money is key) and unfortunately Generico will probably end up like poor Kofi Kingston.

I love all the guys you mentioned, I'm as big of an internet guy than anybody. I just believe that the main goal for a promoter is to make money. Look own through the "eras" of the fed. Hogan,Bret,Austin,Rock and Cena have all been THE guy for years respectively. Unless Aries could be in that position, why should he fudge up a pretty good deal with TNA to end up like poor Chris Hero?

At the end of the day Vince wants money. Wrestlers need fans to be 100% behind them and buy into them. If you're not all the way with them they'll end up like Punk, Bryan and countless others. I'm not saying Aries is a bad choice but at the end of the day Vince needs money. If he doesn't think Aries'll make it, he'll do his best to make it another way.

Bounty Hunter

around 24 hours left to vote for this one and its very close atm

Bounty Hunter

A Single vote in the difference means I am saying congrats Hastag_heel and commiserations Campo, so so close but there could be only one winner.