New Teacher Union

aratsarse101

Would we be able to start a new thread, separate to the HR thread, about the possibility/practicalities of the formation of a new teacher union. I'm genuinely sick with the prospect of a life sentence S+S and weary of union strategies/lack of apparent strategies.
For example, is it a realistic option? What is the youngest union in the Irish union family and when/how was it formed? Would the employer have to recognise a new union? I'm sure they would if there were 10,000+members. Would congress block new entrant? etc etc

ytareh

Are you in ASTI ?Im no expert but Id imagine reclaiming the one we have is far, far, far easier (although the use of dirty tricks from Top Table traitors is a given) .Despite the fact we have a faux socialist party in coalition Id say its a closed shop .Even in most irish schools one union has designated 'negotiating rights ' and the other is frozen out and teachers cant join .Anyone ever considered moving Occupy Dame St up the road to become Occupy Winetavern St !?

TheDriver

From my recollection of NAPD trying to get union rights, its quite a long and difficult process due to the need to be associated with congress etc. Is it possible: yes but not as easy as just setting up a teacher association. I concur with ytareh, reclaim the union you have for starters.

RealJohn

In fairness, it's all well and good to say that we should reclaim the union(s) we have but what are the chances of that happening? How can it even be done? We can replace those at the top but they'll be replaced by people one or two rungs down, not by fresh, enthusiastic people motivated to stand up for us. I think it'd be easier to get behind a new union.

Miss Lockhart

RealJohn wrote: »

In fairness, it's all well and good to say that we should reclaim the union(s) we have but what are the chances of that happening? How can it even be done? We can replace those at the top but they'll be replaced by people one or two rungs down, not by fresh, enthusiastic people motivated to stand up for us. I think it'd be easier to get behind a new union.

Yes and I think a cross-sector union is vital - this artificial division is nonsense in this day and age.

evolving_doors

At the other end of the spectrum, France has one union for all the public sector...and nobody messes around with them!

How about NO union as such and everything is put to an online vote..(like the borg!).subscription admin fees would be covered by adds..

I hate to say it though, we get the union we deserve....

doc_17

A union membership is like a gym membership!!!!

Pwpane

doc_17 wrote: »

A union membership is like a gym membership!!!!

You mean - you pay membership and never attend?? :rolleyes:

acequion

Armelodie wrote: »

At the other end of the spectrum, France has one union for all the public sector...and nobody messes around with them!

How about NO union as such and everything is put to an online vote..(like the borg!).subscription admin fees would be covered by adds..

I hate to say it though, we get the union we deserve....

I tend to agree with a lot of what you say and actually The Netherlands,too, has just one [strong] union for the public service. But continental European democracies tend to be much stronger than ours.

I'm a great believer in the concept of trade unionism but in Ireland I think it's yet another organisation pandering to egos and easily corrupted. I'd love to think we could reclaim our union or form an even greater one for all second level, but having attended an ASTI branch meeting tonight,I'm not feeling very optimistic about the future of Irish trade unionism.

doc_17

Pwpane wrote: »

You mean - you pay membership and never attend?? :rolleyes:

No. I mean we won't get the benefits simply by being a member. You get out what you put in. I go to loads. Even congress the odd time!

teacherhead

doc_17 wrote: »

No. I mean we won't get the benefits simply by being a member. You get out what you put in. I go to loads. Even congress the odd time!

have to agree doc_17 empty branch meetings, no engagement at local level and a general preference towards looking after your own needs and feck everyone else are what has us the way we are.

in relation to tui there is, in my opinion, an over representation of further ed. on the executive. They know little of jc reform or s&s and care little for that matter. Its time that second level reclaimed the tui. There are some very good third level people in TUI. Id put more faith in them than in FE reps who are technically second level but have no idea what day to day life in a school is like.

acequion

What do people see as the main goal of a trade union? I see it as a mechanism which protects pay and conditions and lobbies on behalf of the interests of the profession /professions within its remit. I totally don't see it as some kind of insurance policy. Today I was commenting to a collegue that I will probably leave the ASTI if HR is accepted, and she replied that I might need them "if anything ever happened with a pupil". I really don't accept that. I pay salary protection, VHI,pension buy back,how many job related insurances do I need?

But I'd be very interested in other people's views on that.

Red Martin

The unions have lost their way and I am stating this from personal experience when they represented me regarding a work relation matter and achieved nothing but to exhaust and frustrate the process. It was only when I took charge of the complaints myself and learned the process from internal procedures to the LRC that things started to happen. Take a look at this case where the woman represented herself in a landmark case http://thepeninsulairelandblog.wordpress.com/2012/06/22/landmark-cases-workplace-bullying-kelly-v-bon-secours/ You won't break the culture of an existing union, a change of cloths is no good. A new cross disciplinary union is what's needed. The Constitution protects your right to join a union/representation. It doesn't say you have to join one of the existing ones.