Property management company vs. tenants

sturdywear

Hi everyone,

A few questions:

Tenants paid for facilities they could not use for 4 months (out of two bathrooms only one was fully functional) - should they ask the management company for compensation?

Problems arose right from the start of the tenancy. Since noone on behalf of the management came in to do the walk-around with the tenants when they moved in, tenants had to thoroughly inspect the apartment on their own and found a list of issues that were immediately reported back to the management. The management later said they did the inspection five weeks before the tenants moved in and everything was in order. Major issues took almost 4 months to get fixed - the replacement part had to be custom ordered by the management but it was ordered incorrectly and had to be re-ordered, causing the delay. All that time tenants were afraid to put weight on the cracked toilet, and the toilet that leaked constantly made the floor wet and the shower mat soggy and smelly day after day.

On Friday morning (almost 4 months after the issues were reported) the plumber hired by the management company came to replace the cracked toilet and left both toilets (old and new) sit on the bathroom floor till the following Wednesday morning. The tenants had to experience the foulest of smells coming out of the pipe (even though it was covered up with a plastic bag) 5 days and nights. The smell spread all over master bedroom, master bathroom and beyond, and no ventilating could help get rid of it until the toilet was back on the wall. Sleeping and showering experiences were compromised: the sound of rushing water whenever someone living above flushed or took the bath/shower disturbed them at nights, and showering had to take place a metre away from the smelly toilet pipe. The plumber came back with the right screw on day 6 (Thursday) and the toilet was functioning again. Does this qualify as "moral damage" and may the tenants appeal for compensation?

Tenants were very patient and understanding but their patience wore thin. In search for support they called threshold.ie and were told to lodge a PRTB dispute if the management refuses to compensate for the distress and inconvenience they'd experienced. The management does refuse to issue any compensation and strongly advises against lodging a PRTB dispute, refusing to release the LL's contact information.

What should the tenants do if they also got a call from someone working for this management company suggesting that it is in their best interests to consider looking for another place to live since the landlord is unhappy that the tenants could lodge a dispute with PRTB and offers them to get out of the lease with no penalty. The apartment is 5 years old and things will keep coming up, and the management doesn't want the tenants to be unhappy with their home, goes the reasoning.

Tenants love the apartment. Their plans for Christmas season do not include moving. All they really wanted was to get someone address the issues they were putting up with in the apartment they're renting.

Any insights are greatly appreciated.

The_Conductor

Ok......
Management Company seems to be mixed up with Management Agent here?
First off- I'd fire the Management Agent at the first available opportunity.
I would suggest giving the tenants a month's free rent in lieu of the ridiculous situation they were made put up with. If they take you to the PRTB- they will likely win- I can't see any reason they wouldn't (the apartment was inhabitable- and probably in breach of numerous health and safety regulations).

Offer them a free months rent- as a good will gesture- and fire the Management Agent. I'd also suggest lodging a complaint with the PSRA, who license Management Agents- about the conduct of the Management Agent- as their lack of concern for the issue is wholly inappropriate- and for example- were the toilet to break while one of the tenants were on it- could have resulted in a claim that would bankrupt you- and/or possibly kill the tenant.

Can you just clear up your misuse of the term Management Company though- as it makes reading your post and understanding it, quite difficult.

Mrs OBumble

OP, unless you are the landlord and can indeed fire the managing agent and give the tenants some compensation ... then I would say that the tenants need to change their Christmas plans to include apartment hunting and setting into their new home.

And don't ever, ever again move in without someone from the landlord side (property manager, management agent, landlord, etc) present to do the initial inspection.

Paulw

The tenants should file a complaint with the PRTB against the letting agent/management agent. Sounds like the agent is just slow and dodgy. Maybe the tenancy isn't even registered with the PRTB.

Again, as others have said, it's not a management company you are dealing with at all.

The landlord should fire this agent, and get someone in who will do a proper job.

sturdywear

The_Conductor wrote: »

Management Company seems to be mixed up with Management Agent here?
..
Can you just clear up your misuse of the term Management Company though- as it makes reading your post and understanding it, quite difficult.

I'm sorry for the confusion, didn't know what to properly call <snip>. They were letting agents in the first place, but right after the contract was signed, the deposit was paid and the tenants got the keys, the agent told them to report all the issues to their property management team through their helpdesk/support website <snip>.

To add to the list of issues, the agent forgot to switch the Dalkia contract in tenants' name and they did not get hot water for 10 something days at the start of their tenancy.

There is a development to the story.

Unhappy that the company refused to offer compensation (tenants had asked, just as you suggested, for a month's worth of rent), tenants posted a picture of those two toilets on their bathroom floor on twitter and expressed an opinion that it's best to avoid dealing with <snip> if "you value your time and sanity". The situation got attention of the Managing Director and his marketing team, that was almost immediately in touch. Tenants thought it was a good sign but their hopes were false.

By the time the issue with the toilets was sorted out, another issue surfaced, this time the rubber that seals the crack between the shower door and the shower side got worn and torn. This issue is currently being the reason for tension between the tenants and the management.

At first the plumber took the rubber seal off the shower door, said that it would most likely have to be custom ordered and left, leaving the tenants without one working shower for five days. On day 6 he came in to get the toilets in order, and brought back took the old rubber seal. He put it back where it used to be, smeared a thick layer of silicone on top and left afterwards saying this is all he could do about it.

Tenants wrote an email back to customer support saying that although it looked like it was ok, the shower would still leak water on the floor, and the door wasn't opening back and forth as it was designed to. A rep from the office was scheduled to come in next morning to check it out. When she came in, she said it looked all right to her despite the crack being visible to the naked eye, and said that it is quite normal that the water leaks on the floor when showering. Tenants then showed her the second shower door that sealed correctly and didn't leak at all. Apparently having the second shower perform by its original design was way too much to ask for.

The next day tenants received a twitter reply that <snip>.. were "Delighted that your issue has been rectified". As one of the tenants used that shower that morning and the water leaked through the crack all over the floor and the bathroom mat, they replied that their assumption was false. The rep who had visited the apartment the day before rung the tenants within a few minutes saying that it was a breach of trust to go public with such statements, that she thought the issue was sorted out, and that it is really nothing they could do about the situation other than having the tenants accept it. Then she called back sounding very emotional and said they will take action against tenants if they didn't delete that tweet. Tenants have had enough of the drama and took the tweet down. The rep agreed that tenants will find their own solution to the shower problem and <snip> will compensate them €20 if needed.

End of story.

Tenants understand that this is a big market player who wants to avoid publicity in order to maintain their reputation. What kind of action may be taken against the tenants in such a scenario in case they do lodge a complaint with PRTB?

Thank you for your reply.

sturdywear

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

OP, unless you are the landlord and can indeed fire the managing agent and give the tenants some compensation ... then I would say that the tenants need to change their Christmas plans to include apartment hunting and setting into their new home.

And don't ever, ever again move in without someone from the landlord side (property manager, management agent, landlord, etc) present to do the initial inspection.

Thank you Mrs OBumble, the tenants have learned this lesson the hard way.

sturdywear

Paulw wrote: »

The tenants should file a complaint with the PRTB against the letting agent/management agent. Sounds like the agent is just slow and dodgy. Maybe the tenancy isn't even registered with the PRTB.

Again, as others have said, it's not a management company you are dealing with at all.

The landlord should fire this agent, and get someone in who will do a proper job.

The tenancy is registered, the tenants received the letter from PRTB confirming the registration. Please see the reply above with clarification of the situation. Thank you.

The_Morrigan

Sturdywear I've edited your post to remove the name of the company.

Also, just to make you aware, legal advice may not be sought or given on Boards.ie, so your final request on actions that may be taken against the tenants may not be answered here.
Please seek legal advice from a professional in regards to this.

djimi

Taking the matter to Twitter was pretty silly tbf. If youre trying to get cooperation from this company then going public and bringing up their name in public in such a manner is not going to help. It just gives them one more battle to fight with you, which ultimately deflects their time and attention away from the actual issues.

Lodge a complaint with the PRTB is about all you can do. Seek for termination based on the fact that the landlord is not fulfilling their obligations.

The tenant is also permitted, in certain instances, to have the issue fixed and deduct the cost from the rent. Im not sure if this would apply here as action was taken (albeit unsuccessfully) to resolve the issues, but it might be something worth investigating.

sturdywear

The_Morrigan wrote: »

Sturdywear I've edited your post to remove the name of the company.

Also, just to make you aware, legal advice may not be sought or given on Boards.ie, so your final request on actions that may be taken against the tenants may not be answered here.
Please seek legal advice from a professional in regards to this.

Thank you for the edit, I was not aware of whether it's ok to mention the name of the letting agent.

Just to be clear, legal advice is being sought at the moment. It just felt right to ask for opinions of people who see the issue with a fresh set of eyes who are not being paid to do that.

sturdywear

djimi wrote: »

Taking the matter to Twitter was pretty silly tbf. If youre trying to get cooperation from this company then going public and bringing up their name in public in such a manner is not going to help. It just gives them one more battle to fight with you, which ultimately deflects their time and attention away from the actual issues.

I also thought that for a moment, thank you. But tenants seem to believe it's the fastest and most efficient way to be heard. By all means they did get heard, only the letting agent's response went against their expectations (they'd hoped for a compensation as stated above, but they were told that the case of compensating for the inconvenience was when they had tenants showering in the gym, not when 1 shower out of two was fully operational).

The only question is that why a company that big, well-known and influential would see such tenants as rogue customers and act in such a petty manner? It feels terrible to be in these tenants' position, doesn't it? They are paying their rent and are abiding by the rental contract. Why indeed would the letting agent's reps play it as if striving to live in conditions provided were tenants' fault?

The_Morrigan

Sturdywear I've edited your post again - please stop identifying the company and seeking legal advice.
You may discuss the ins and outs of the tenancy and problems with that, but you may not ask about any potential legal action from the company.

This is your last warning.

sturdywear

The_Morrigan wrote: »

Sturdywear I've edited your post again - please stop identifying the company and seeking legal advice.
You may discuss the ins and outs of the tenancy and problems with that, but you may not ask about any potential legal action from the company.

This is your last warning.

Duly noted, thank you. Please accept sincere apologies about that, will not mention any information that may identify the company again.

foggy_lad

Op if I was a tenant faced with such obviously useless property letting agents I would have opened a complaint with the PRTB a long time ago and would also have informed the PRTB of the threats made to me if I made such a complaint.

It sounds like you have a case for compensation through the regulatory body for the delay in repairing the toilet and now also the shower.

You should contact the prtb or threshold for better advice than I can give.

Thoie

Over the Twitter matter, as long as I could back up any claim I made, I'd have left it there, but I'm not a very nice person. I don't see that there was a breach of trust. The matter wasn't resolved, and by the sounds of it the agent got given out to and was told to sort it out. Her attempt to sort things was to try bully them into taking down the tweet, rather than resolving the issue properly.

If there's a second shower working in the place, I don't see that there is a need for any monetary compensation to the tenants, but agent should get the first shower working properly.

If I were the tenants, and wanted to continue living there, I'd ask for a meeting with someone senior in the company and ask could we start over. Provide a list of problems that have been encountered so far, with a status of where each one is at, and agree a reasonable timeframe (like a week) to get them properly resolved before opening a dispute with the PRTB.

sturdywear

Thoie wrote: »

If I were the tenants, and wanted to continue living there, I'd ask for a meeting with someone senior in the company and ask could we start over. Provide a list of problems that have been encountered so far, with a status of where each one is at, and agree a reasonable timeframe (like a week) to get them properly resolved before opening a dispute with the PRTB.

This sounds quite reasonable, thank you.