MSD Swords closing, A wear in recievership..

NuckingFacker

There's a lot of talk about recovery, job creation and a pick-up in the economy. I'm not hugely convinced - both awear and msd swords are people I've worked for and along with a huge number of other firms, they're pulling down the shutters. I've a sneaky feeling that a fair few other multinationals, especially ones facing the so called "patent cliff" will quietly head off for fields afresh(i.e cheaper) as Government subsidies expire and Ireland becomes less attractive - combined with the farce that is JobsBridge - the great masker of true levels of unemployment and rental agreements that are still rooted in artificial Bank-led property valuations that are unsustainable.

Pick -up or more of the same with ribbons on?

drdeadlift

Retail is ****ed in ireland..rent+rates make setting up pointless

hmmm

Multinationals come and go, companies come and go, jobs come and go. It's hard for the people involved, but the overall economy is doing well. As long as the public sector doesn't sabotage the recovery with their strikes and other demands, things look good for 2014.

NuckingFacker

hmmm wrote: »

Multinationals come and go, companies come and go, jobs come and go. It's hard for the people involved, but the overall economy is doing well. As long as the public sector doesn't sabotage the recovery with their strikes and other demands, things look good for 2014.

In what way? More jobsbridge "jobs"? Or more emigration? Every second person I know is gone. My "contacts" on the phone is like a list of the departed.

Kersh

drdeadlift wrote: »

Retail is ****ed in ireland..rent+rates make setting up pointless

"Online only" is the way forward, if you are smart about how you setup, and how you run the business week to week.

FlashD

drdeadlift wrote: »

Retail is ****ed in ireland..rent+rates make setting up pointless

.....and more importantly, who is going to buy the products?

Young people have no jobs, no cash, and are all emigrating, a whole generation of consumers leaving to settle in another country....will eventually get married, buy houses, cars, have kids etc..... all in another country!

Fact is young people spend money, old people don't!

hmmm

hmmm wrote: »

Multinationals come and go, companies come and go, jobs come and go. It's hard for the people involved, but the overall economy is doing well. As long as the public sector doesn't sabotage the recovery with their strikes and other demands, things look good for 2014.

But only in the sense that it has stopped declining after the 2008 "stall", a sizeable section of the population are overburdened by debts accumulated during the "good times" and for them the "recovery" is beyond the horizon. In fact for many, unless we get significant inflation kicking in and devaluing their debts (relative to income) they'll still be in debt when they retire without any savings.

It is NOT "NOT" a recovery, it's an end to the decline!

road_high

drdeadlift wrote: »

Retail is ****ed in ireland..rent+rates make setting up pointless

Exactly, rents are still in cloud cuckoo land in most instances and rates are off the wall given the "services" they supposedly pay for.

NuckingFacker

Kersh wrote: »

"Online only" is the way forward, if you are smart about how you setup, and how you run the business week to week.

Hmm. Apart from the phenomenon that is Amazon, which has sailed close to the wind in terms of bancruptcy several times before reaching a critical volume and profitability, the online market is a toughie..if you retail clothes, it's a disaster - people buy, try and return - and there's no profit to be made due to sales being outweighted by eventual returns. "Online" also employs fck all people and those it does employ are on crap money...re the op, I know, I built the online operation..ahem.

KyussBishop

Forget job creation, you want NET job creation: Jobs Created - Jobs Lost. The rest is fluff.

We've still got massive unemployment, underemployment, and underpay (particularly with the likes of JobBridge), and we have massive private debt (the highest per capita in the EU I believe, or close if not - a much bigger problem than public debt), and underperforming repayment of that debt (because many don't have jobs or aren't earning enough), which means we're going to have a new banking crisis (probably involving bail-ins this time, i.e. taking from your deposits, now that the precedent in Cyprus is set), unless we can get a sudden recovery that provides enough growth to get people earning enough, to make these debts perform well again.

Unless Europe completely changes tack in how the crisis is handled, we're still fúcked, and haven't seen the end of it yet (are just waiting for the next stage of the crisis), and probably have another decade more of underperforming if we stay in the EU (we could even enter semi-permanent stagnation like Japan, which has undergone two lost decades, under similar policies).


The reason we are being told that things are 'improving', and have the promise that things are just around the corner from getting better (seriously, when has this ever not been the promise? are people still this gullible?), is to keep people uninformed and placid (unaware that we are still facing up to a decade of this if not more), instead of informed and actually giving a toss how the country is run (whereupon people would gradually learn about alternative policies, and how they are not worse than more decades stuck in this limbo).

downonthefarm

what medical devices are facing the patent cliff at the no?

Femme_Fatale

I'd say some sectors have improved, and only in Dublin/Cork, but that's just one part of the overall picture. I really doubt things are picking up much, if at all, elsewhere in the country.

I'd say also that high-street retail is in trouble either way. There'll always be a market for it, but greatly diminished thanks to online shopping. There seem to be more adverts for online stores now than for physical shops.

downonthefarm

downonthefarm wrote: »

what medical devices are facing the patent cliff at the no?

Viagra is about to droop! (it may already have)

road_high

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

I'd say some sectors have improved, and only in Dublin/Cork, but that's just one part of the overall picture. I really doubt things are picking up much, if at all, elsewhere in the country.

I think the west, north midlands and north west areas are worst affected. Dublin and a lot of Leinster are doing well again, as is Cork city. Live in Kilkenny myself and definitely think things have picked up here especially as the city is so dependent on tourism and daytrippers from Dublin.

Also areas with a very strong agricultural and food processing sector (again parts of Leinster/Munster) are doing well the past few years.

mfceiling

And in the indo today (copy in work, i didn't buy it) we are going to be faced with a barrage of "new green levies"

Nothing this government can't fix without a "levy, a charge or a tax"

Femme_Fatale

road_high wrote: »

I think the west, north midlands and north west areas are worst affected. Dublin and a lot of Leinster are doing well again, as is Cork city. Live in Kilkenny myself and definitely think things have picked up here especially as the city is so dependent on tourism and daytrippers from Dublin.

Also areas with a very strong agricultural and food processing sector (again parts of Leinster/Munster) are doing well the past few years.

Yeh Cork's ok - well it probably depends on sector too, but there's EMC and Apple which are expanding, and other I.T. places, pharma, call centres. On the other hand, so many shut-down shops in the centre of town...

Actually that's a good point re Kilkenny - I believe it's doing quite well. Waterford, Limerick, Tralee and Dundalk are apparently f*cked though.

downonthefarm

Deleted User wrote: »

Viagra is about to droop! (it may already have)

lol I was reading there the company that's makes Botox has gotten a lifelong patent on it.

Femme_Fatale

Deleted User wrote: »

Viagra is about to droop! (it may already have)

I'm reliably informed Dick Spring cut the ribbon on the Viagra plant in Pfizer years back.
Others say it's an urban myth - it better not be! :mad:

NuckingFacker

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

I'm reliably informed Dick Spring cut the ribbon on the Viagra plant in Pfizer years back.
Others say it's an urban myth - it better not be! :mad:

hah.:D I did a good bit of work on the security cage they store it in(I actually did..) - it's popular gear - there must be an awful lot of floppiness out there - I was watched like a hawk every minute I was near the product..- I felt like showing them a bit of wood to get the guard dogs called off...au-natural.

Cedrus

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

I'm reliably informed Dick Spring cut the ribbon on the Viagra plant in Pfizer years back.
Others say it's an urban myth - it better not be! :mad:

I'd say it's a myth, he wasn't a minister at the time and he's not local.

BUT

There WAS a guy working for Pfizer at the time called Willie Power. I've heard he was the Viagra Project Manager but I can't confirm that.

Femme_Fatale

Cedrus wrote: »

BUT

There WAS a guy working for Pfizer at the time called Willie Power. I've heard he was the Viagra Project Manager but I can't confirm that.

That'll do. :pac:

Cedrus

In fairness, what's happening in MSD is less a measure of the economy in Ireland or the Eurozone and more a reflection of what is happening in world pharma.
Merk Sharp and Dome merged with Schering Plough a few years back and ended up with massive over capacity at the same time as diminishing demand. They had about 90 plants worldwide at the merger and now have about 60, some of those have been downgraded, with more to close probably. Swords is the second one in Ireland, Rathdrum started winding down 9 months ago.

road_high

Cedrus wrote: »

In fairness, what's happening in MSD is less a measure of the economy in Ireland or the Eurozone and more a reflection of what is happening in world pharma.
Merk Sharp and Dome merged with Schering Plough a few years back and ended up with massive over capacity at the same time as diminishing demand. They had about 90 plants worldwide at the merger and now have about 60, some of those have been downgraded, with more to close probably. Swords is the second one in Ireland, Rathdrum started winding down 9 months ago.

They built and opened a new plant in Carlow a few years back too, which I assume they wouldn't have done if they'd seen ahead more clearly.

The real key to operating a successful pharma business is to develop drugs that controls (& alleviates the symptoms of) a medical condition NOT cure it!
This ensures that customers always return for repeat prescriptions, if they created a cure they would not get that repeat business!

NuckingFacker

road_high wrote: »

They built and opened a new plant in Carlow a few years back too, which I assume they wouldn't have done if they'd seen ahead more clearly.

Deleted User wrote: »

The real key to operating a successful pharma business is to develop drugs that controls (& alleviates the symptoms of) a medical condition NOT cure it!
This ensures that customers always return for repeat prescriptions, if they created a cure they would not get that repeat business!

Umm, I'll just chuck in massive IDA grants, highly mobile(by design) expensive equipment and tax breaks/labour rates/R&D grants/other countries dumb enough to offer grants to "multinational corporations" and the fact we suited a purpose for a while...

NuckingFacker

NuckingFacker wrote: »

Umm, I'll just chuck in massive IDA grants, highly mobile(by design) expensive equipment and tax breaks/labour rates/R&D grants/other countries dumb enough to offer grants to "multinational corporations" and the fact we suited a purpose for a while...

Can't argue those points, but without then the original comment still stands.
your comments add icing to the cake & justify the success of Irish industry.

NuckingFacker

Deleted User wrote: »

Can't argue those points, but without then the original comment still stands.
your comments add icing to the cake & justify the success of Irish industry.

Which is the bit that worries me. You can only buy investment for so long - after a bit, reality and finances prevail. Then you see what's really what. There's always someone cheaper, if all you're selling is cheapness.

blackwhite

Cedrus wrote: »

In fairness, what's happening in MSD is less a measure of the economy in Ireland or the Eurozone and more a reflection of what is happening in world pharma.
Merk Sharp and Dome merged with Schering Plough a few years back and ended up with massive over capacity at the same time as diminishing demand. They had about 90 plants worldwide at the merger and now have about 60, some of those have been downgraded, with more to close probably. Swords is the second one in Ireland, Rathdrum started winding down 9 months ago.

Exactl, the old Schering Plough plants in Ireland were always going to be under threat when the merger (takeover by Merck in all but name - for licencing reasons) happened. It's nothing to do with the Irish, European or even Global economies, just a function of what happens when two large companies, with many overlapping functions, go through a merger process.

SP Rathdrum was a manufacturing plant of the same type and function as the MSD plant in Ballydine, Tipperary (making the basic active ingredients for non-biological pharamceuticals). It was never likely that they would maintain two plants carrying out the same function in the same territory.
The Tipperary plant had been earmarked as a worldwide manufacturing centre of excellence by Merck, so it was always likely to be the one retained.

Organon in Swords was manufacturing basically the same products as a Merck plant in the Netherlands (mainly women's health products). Again, one of these was likely to get the chop. It's just a shame that it was the Irish one.

road_high wrote: »

They built and opened a new plant in Carlow a few years back too, which I assume they wouldn't have done if they'd seen ahead more clearly.

The plant in Carlow is a vaccines plant, it's a completely different line of business to their other plants in Ireland.
From what I understand it's moving along quite well, and I'd be shocked if there was bad news coming from there anytime soon.

Their plant in Tipperary has been expanded in recent years, and is more likely to continue growing than anything else.

There is a former Schering Plough plant in Brinny, Cork that I'd be worried about. They've laid off a lot of staff in the last couple of years, and are highly dependant on one product, the SP have the rights to manufacture under licence. If there were any problems with that licence then the plant could be in trouble.

MSD also opened a large shared service centre in Leopardstown a few years ago (accounting for MSD European operations mainly). From what I understand that seems to be going strongly as well.


(I don't work for MSD/SP - they were a client in a former job)

ofcork

Pfizer in cork have sold some plants and have only one left now i believe,A wear were bought by brown Thomas a few years ago so maybe the business wasn't viable.We will see a lot more of this yet.

Dravokivich

KyussBishop wrote: »

Forget job creation, you want NET job creation: Jobs Created - Jobs Lost. The rest is fluff.

Never a truery word written about employment. A few years back a company I work with announced 600 jobs. My ma was onto me and said that is great. I told her at least 400 of'em will be due to turnover over the 3 years they referenced.

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

I'm reliably informed Dick Spring cut the ribbon on the Viagra plant in Pfizer years back.
Others say it's an urban myth - it better not be! :mad:

Ah, classic schoolyard politics in an All Boys School there!

What happens when you pull down your pants?
Dick Springs out!