Accident repair - ethics?

whippet

I was sideswiped earlier this week .. fortunately I managed to avoid a major collision but the other driver managed to damage three panels on my driver's side.

the other driver while covered fully comp wants to cover the damage personally.

I got a quote from a main dealer for repair (assuming that the other party would want to go through insurance when the actual quote came through) .. the quote is for just shy of €3k.

The other party has sent me on a bank draft to cover the cost of the quote.

I would imagine if I were to go an look for another quote for repair without the prospect of an insurance company being involved I would get a cheaper quote ... if I did am I being immoral not passing this saving on to the third party?

djimi

Youre basically asking is it okay to obtain the dearest quote possible (which is probably what the dealer amounts to), get the car repaired at a cheaper garage and pocket the difference? Others may disagree, but that doesnt seem very right to me.

Anan1

Yes, and the fact that they were fair with you only makes it worse. You'll most likely get all sorts of opinions here, but it really comes down to what kind of a person you want to be.

Supergurrier

If they want to go through insurance they can.

They were at fault.

Voodoomelon

I think ethically you should feel fine about covering the cost of both getting your car repaired by the best bodyshop out there and whatever cost you put on the hassle and inconvenience (time off work, fuel etc).

Anything on top of this is wrong, regardless of whether the driver is paying or the insurance company is paying.
I would imagine the huge majority of people wouldn't think twice about taking as much as possible.

CiniO

You suffered a loss because of someone else's fault.
Luckily loss was only material, not human

You got a quote how much it costs to repair your car in main dealer, and assuming they would do it rightly, then it's the fair price other party should pay, so you are not at loss.

So you fully deserve to get that sum, whether it will be from other party insurance company or his own pocket (decision is his - whatever suits him better).

It's also your decision what to do with that money. You can spend it all to properly fix your car at main dealer. You can spend smaller amount to repair car in other place which is cheaper, and keep the change. Or you can keep the whole money and drive dented car. It's all up to you. You suffered the loss and you need to be compensated.

I can't see anything immoral in asking for money quoted by main dealer. In the end accident wasn't your fault.

Even further - why would you want to take less if you deserve it?

Anan1

CiniO wrote: »

You suffered a loss because of someone else's fault.
Luckily loss was only material, not human

You got a quote how much it costs to repair your car in main dealer, and assuming they would do it rightly, then it's the fair price other party should pay, so you are not at loss.

So you fully deserve to get that sum, whether it will be from other party insurance company or his own pocket (decision is his - whatever suits him better).

It's also your decision what to do with that money. You can spend it all to properly fix your car at main dealer. You can spend smaller amount to repair car in other place which is cheaper, and keep the change. Or you can keep the whole money and drive dented car. It's all up to you. You suffered the loss and you need to be compensated.

I can't see anything immoral in asking for money quoted by main dealer. In the end accident wasn't your fault.

Even further - why would you want to take less if you deserve it?

Two points:

1. The main dealer will have grossly overinflated the quote.

2. The main dealer won't repair the car to as high a standard as a good independent bodyshop.

e.r

I'd be careful . A friend of mine had his parked car hit by someone with a few pints on him .
To help the guy out he didn't ring gards , and yer man said he'd pay the money out of his pocket for repairs.
He ended up chasing the guy for about two years to get the money.

CiniO

Anan1 wrote: »

Two points:

1. The main dealer will have grossly overinflated the quote.

2. The main dealer won't repair the car to as high a standard as a good independent bodyshop.

What about loss of value of vehicle.
Even if car is repaired to the best standard possible, from now on whatever is done car will always be classed as "crashed and repaired" which surely lowers resale value. This also should be compensated to OP.

djimi

CiniO wrote: »

What about loss of value of vehicle.
Even if car is repaired to the best standard possible, from now on whatever is done car will always be classed as "crashed and repaired" which surely lowers resale value. This also should be compensated to OP.

You wouldnt get compensated for this from the insurer, would you?

Greenmachine

Hope the bank draft is legit and the guy who hit you doesn't do a runner. I think you should always go through the insurance where the other party has admitted liability.

MuppetCheck

djimi wrote: »

You wouldnt get compensated for this from the insurer, would you?

My sister was allowed 10% of the repair cost which was 6k on a new ish car a few years ago.

OP, it's up to you. Personally I'd get a few more prices and go with whatever place I thought would do the best job and return the rest. But if you feel like keeping it that's your decision. They've handed over the money without a quibble which is extremely rare.

Just beware that karmas a bitch.

whippet

Greenmachine wrote: »

Hope the bank draft is legit and the guy who hit you doesn't do a runner. I think you should always go through the insurance where the other party has admitted liability.

it's legit alright as it was drawn on the bank where my sister-in-law works.

The guy is just glad that I managed to spot a small escape route; if not himself and his wife would probably be in hospital or even worse at this stage.

CiniO

djimi wrote: »

You wouldnt get compensated for this from the insurer, would you?

I would expect to be compensated for it. Isn't it reasonable?

drunkmonkey

Karma? It's a big circle.

grainnewhale

djimi wrote: »

You wouldnt get compensated for this from the insurer, would you?

depends on the age. But would assume if you mentioned a visit to the doctors they might throw in a sweetner. Realistically your car would have a lower value following a crash.

bazz26

You'd have no luck for it imo.

Senecio

Anan1 wrote: »

Two points:

1. The main dealer will have grossly overinflated the quote.

2. The main dealer won't repair the car to as high a standard as a good independent bodyshop.

3. The main dealer will only outsource to an independent anyway.

OP

Get the car repaired at the main dealer for the full quote or return the difference to the other party if you save some money. Anything else is a low act.

grainnewhale

bazz26 wrote: »

You'd have no luck for it imo.

This is a myth.

bazz26

grainnewhale wrote: »

This is a myth.

It's known as Karma.

grainnewhale

bazz26 wrote: »

It's known as Karma.

And karma is a myth.

grainnewhale

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Karma? It's a big circle.

Not a big circle, but an imaginary one.

bucketybuck

bazz26 wrote: »

It's known as Karma.

I keep some packets of karma in my kitchen.

Supergurrier

Shurrre whats for ya won't pass you by.

A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.



I think the fact the OP actually made this thread says enough about the fact they have a fairly sound moral compass. I would base getting my repair on the quality of the work rather than the highest quote.

ninty9er

Did you provide the written quote to the other party? If so he may look for documentary proof that this has been carried out.

Misleading another individual for financial gain is fraud, which happens to be illegal.

Get your car fixed at a decent independent bodyshop. Specify you want the damage to be undetectable (you'd be very surprised), and if after specifying that the cost is lower, inform the other party of this.

If you're being honest with them that may tell you to keep the change, but otherwise you're not entitled to it anyway.

grainnewhale

ninty9er wrote: »

Did you provide the written quote to the other party? If so he may look for documentary proof that this has been carried out.

Misleading another individual for financial gain is fraud, which happens to be illegal.

Get your car fixed at a decent independent bodyshop. Specify you want the damage to be undetectable (you'd be very surprised), and if after specifying that the cost is lower, inform the other party of this.

If you're being honest with them that may tell you to keep the change, but otherwise you're not entitled to it anyway.

Whats illegal you find out the costs to repair the damage done by the other person. what you do after that is your own business.

CiniO

ninty9er wrote: »

Did you provide the written quote to the other party? If so he may look for documentary proof that this has been carried out.

Why would he be entitled for documentary proof that repair was carried out?
It's the owner business where he want's to repair his vehicle and even if he wants to do it at all or not.

Misleading another individual for financial gain is fraud, which happens to be illegal.

If quote from main dealer is real, then there is no financial gain for OP, even if he chooses to fix car in cheaper place or not fix it at all.

Get your car fixed at a decent independent bodyshop. Specify you want the damage to be undetectable (you'd be very surprised)

I can't see how would the damage be repaired to undetectable state. I don't think it's possible.

ninty9er

Financial gain is determined as having more money than previously, so unless the full value of the draft is spent repairing the car, then it is fraud. Tread carefully I say.s

CiniO

ninty9er wrote: »

Financial gain is determined as having more money than previously, so unless the full value of the draft is spent repairing the car, then it is fraud. Tread carefully I say.s

Nonsense.
OP could have more money in his pocket, but his car is worth less. No gain here.

grainnewhale

ninty9er wrote: »

Financial gain is determined as having more money than previously, so unless the full value of the draft is spent repairing the car, then it is fraud. Tread carefully I say.s

If this was true then if I sold you a car for more than it was worth , this would be fraud. There wouldn't be a garage owner in the country, not locked up.

robtri

If you are in an accident and not deemed to be a fault, then you are entitled to be covered for your costs.
So thats the actual repair costs, not an estimate. An estimate is only an estimate, this can go up or down during repairs.

On top of that, usually 10% of repair cost is the usual accepted number by insurance companies to cover the drop in resale value due to the vehicle repaired.

Plus car hire while car being repaired

These are usual anything else is usually on a case by case basis. Loss of earnings, injuries ect

So after those expenses if you have anything else left, return it, they were very fair with you, so you should be as well fair to them....

mickdw

Its up to the OP whether they want to even repair the car at all so no issue with keeping all the cash.
The way I see it though, if the car can be professionally repaired and all expenses paid for a sum less than the 3k, it would be nice to send a few quid to the other driver coming up to christmas. Even one Hundred Euro would be a nice gesture.

JJJJNR

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHnikiww7Lc

Jesus.

Personally I would not do that. Its just not right. Get a decent price and if under 3k, refund him the difference. That would be my advice.

But at least you're being honest Whippet

endacl

You asked the question OP. You know the answer.

dingus12

The car won't be worth less as it won't be on any record as having been repaired since no insurance company has anything to do with it, In fact I bet the car wasn't mint before hand so it will probably end up in better condition, with no stone chips etc.

If it was me, I'd get it repaired at the best independent specialist body repair center, and hand back a fair lump of any money thats left over,

Of course I'd factor in any inconveniences of the fact your car will be out of use for a week or so.

debabyjesus

I was in a 4 car pile up a few years back. One guy caused the whole thing so his insurance company was dealing with all the damage. The bill for repairing my 4 year old car was around 4k. After the car was fixed his insurance company called me to check was I happy and to close out the claim. I mentioned depreciation of the cars value as I had to inform a future buyer that it was crashed and repaired.

Two days later a rep for the insurance company was at my door for a chat about closing the claim. He looked at some receipts I had from the doctor and then pretty much took out a chequebook and asked how much I felt my cars value had depreciated. I just blurted out 1k. He said ok immediately and then said that would be the end of the claim.

He said ok so fast I still think if I'd have said 2k I'd have got it.

Op I reckon you should go through his insurance if you want proper compensation without some sort of guilty feeling you seem to be struggling with.

Patrickheg

Voodoomelon wrote: »

I think ethically you should feel fine about covering the cost of both getting your car repaired by the best bodyshop out there and whatever cost you put on the hassle and inconvenience (time off work, fuel etc).

Anything on top of this is wrong, regardless of whether the driver is paying or the insurance company is paying.
I would imagine the huge majority of people wouldn't think twice about taking as much as possible.

You also need to add a few euros for the extra depreciation that your car has suffered because it's been in an accident

Insurance companies pay this out but only when you push them, it's a bit if of an industry secret

wotswattage

I had an incident where friends drunkenly damaged a neighbours car. I took responsibility and confessed to the neighbour the next day who was at first quite reasonable. He got a quote for the repairs for €600 which was worth more than the car (which was already all dented anyway), and demanded that we pay him in cash. I suggested we'd the bill to the garage as we were paying to fix the damage done to his car, not for him to line his pockets form what happened.

He got the guards involved and made some nasty accusations saying we were refusing point blank to pay. I explained our side and said I had no problem paying the bill, but not paying him cash. The guards said that was a reasonable solution as the car was being fixed and the lads (and me) punished for what happened. I went and paid the garage the money. He said yer man had been in a few weeks before and been an absolute asshole demanding the most expensive possible repair for the car which he couldn't figure out why, and then never took the car in to be repaired. 4 months later the garage called me and refunded all the money to us.

So OP, my advice is to do the honest thing. The guy is righting his wrong by paying for your car to be fixed. That's the issue resolved. Either spend the €3k on the repairs in the dealer, or get it done cheaper let him know. You're not out to make a quick buck off someone elses misfortune.

CiniO

wotswattage wrote: »

I had an incident where friends drunkenly damaged a neighbours car. I took responsibility and confessed to the neighbour the next day who was at first quite reasonable. He got a quote for the repairs for €600 which was worth more than the car (which was already all dented anyway), and demanded that we pay him in cash. I suggested we'd the bill to the garage as we were paying to fix the damage done to his car, not for him to line his pockets form what happened.

So you generally refused to pay for the damage which he suffered.

Why were you trying to force him to repair the car?

wotswattage

CiniO wrote: »

So you generally refused to pay for the damage which he suffered.

Why were you trying to force him to repair the car?

We paid the €600 for the repair bill. He never brought the car in to be fixed. The garage owner refunded us -which he didn't have to do as we'd never have known. He could also have given my neighbour the money without making the repairs, or split the money without making the repairs.

He said he wanted the car repaired. We were paid for that. If he demanded €600 compensation it would have been a different thing.

ninty9er

CiniO wrote: »

So you generally refused to pay for the damage which he suffered.

Why were you trying to force him to repair the car?

Because you're only entitled to be compensated to the same situation as before, that is the damaged item back to the pre loss state. The law does not provide for you to be generally compensated unless you have suffered a personal injury.

CiniO

ninty9er wrote: »

Because you're only entitled to be compensated to the same situation as before, that is the damaged item back to the pre loss state.

You can't revert damaged item (car) to the exact same state as before accident.
Even if it's repaired to the highest standard, it will always be a "crashed and repaired" vehicle with lower resale value, and possibly less safety.
By damaging someone's car, you caused this car to loose some value, and you are liable to pay this difference.
You can't force owner to fix the car, as he just might not want to have a car which was "crashed and repaired".
F.e. car was worth 10k (that was amount the owner could sell it for), and after accident it's worth 4k (that's the amount owner can sell the crashed car for).
In that case you (or your insurance company) should pay remaining 6k to the owner + any extra expanses (like taxis, rental car, etc).
If he got a quote to properly fix the car, he could probably fix it for 5k. But it doesn't mean that you will cover this 5k, and he will have to fix it. No - it's his decision what he want's to do with that car. If he want's to get rid of it, then he can. And you need to cover difference in value before crash and after crash + expanses.

Supergurrier

wotswattage wrote: »

We paid the €600 for the repair bill. He never brought the car in to be fixed. The garage owner refunded us -which he didn't have to do as we'd never have known. He could also have given my neighbour the money without making the repairs, or split the money without making the repairs.

He said he wanted the car repaired. We were paid for that. If he demanded €600 compensation it would have been a different thing.

His property was willfully damaged and you didnt pay in the end.

What he does with the money is none of your business.

listermint

Il work under the assumption that this vehicle will also not be recorded as having an accident due the claim going outside insurers.

Are you OP going to be as candid with the next buyer of the vehicle or will they get shafted ? Ethically speaking.

Idbatterim

what make and age is the car? the dealer is going to be around double a reasonable independent quote I'd imagine and most likely they are just going to send it out to one of them... Put it this way, if its money in your pocket or his or the dealers, I know what Id be choosing, barring it being something newish or niceish...

Kenny Logins

grainnewhale wrote: »

And karma is a myth.

Can you prove that? :pac:

Bigcheeze

If it goes through third party insurers, is there an option to accept the cash payment or will insurers always pay the garage directly ?

cruizer101

You've a number of options OP but I think the best one is to get it done cheaply and then with the rest pay to get my car fixed, which some pr**k backed into and drove off :P everyones happy then hehe

It strikes me as kind of strange that he gave you 3k with no hassle, even with loading on his insurance would take a while to pay that back, are you sure he was insured.

I'd be inclined to get it done cheaper, keep a bit for yourself ~10% for the hassle and depreciation and refund the rest.

Tea 1000

grainnewhale wrote: »

And karma is a myth.

It seems so is common decency. Punctuation too!

Tea 1000

cruizer101 wrote: »

It strikes me as kind of strange that he gave you 3k with no hassle, even with loading on his insurance would take a while to pay that back, are you sure he was insured.

Yep, it is really strange when some person does a decent thing. That's the problem these days.