53% of cyclists run red lights.

gallag

So the London taxi association set up hidden cameras about London and found over half of cyclists don't stop at red lights. Never thought it would be that high??? http://youtu.be/eQdV5Ifco2A

Jabel

Not surprising really, I'd say it's higher in Dublin.
My No.1 bugbear

RayCun

The cyclists are going straight through the top of a T-junction, by the looks of it. I'm more surprised its only 55%

morana

who cares its London!

Morgan

I'm glad to see the vast majority are slowing, checking the junction is clear and then proceeding when safe.

Kav0777

gallag wrote: »

So the London taxi association set up hidden cameras about London and found over half of cyclists don't stop at red lights. Never thought it would be that high??? http://youtu.be/eQdV5Ifco2A

Well this probably cheered them up:

http://road.cc/content/news/99513-london-flooded-police-road-safety-crackdown

There have been widespread reports of drivers being ticketed for stopping in advanced stop line ‘bike boxes’ and of cyclists being fined for running red lights and riding on pavements.

rollingscone

I've long been an advocate of operation "Swinging hurl" to take care of RLJers and Footpath cyclists.

gallag

Kav0777 wrote: »

Well this probably cheered them up:

http://road.cc/content/news/99513-london-flooded-police-road-safety-crackdown

Is that whataboutery? Why so defensive? Surely we can all agree that the rules of the road should be applied and adhered to by all?

gallag

Morgan wrote: »

I'm glad to see the vast majority are slowing, checking the junction is clear and then proceeding when safe.

Or they could stop at red lights making the roads a safer and more harmonious place for all? Or do you believe cyclists should not have to follow traffic laws like red lights etc?

07Lapierre

So 47% of all cyclists stop at red lights. That sounds better.

Jawgap

gallag wrote: »

So the London taxi association set up hidden cameras about London and found over half of cyclists don't stop at red lights. Never thought it would be that high??? http://youtu.be/eQdV5Ifco2A

Yes, that well known unbiased organisation that does so much to research and report on road safety:rolleyes:

I think a quick review of some of their latest trade publications will give you an idea of where they stand on cycle-lanes, cyclists and pedicabs.

rollingscone

Taxi Drivers biased? How dare you criticise the anointed ones for whom the roads were built by God himself.

Kav0777

gallag wrote: »

Is that whataboutery? Why so defensive? Surely we can all agree that the rules of the road should be applied and adhered to by all?

okaaay, just to recap... you posted the London Taxi Driver Association's video about cyclist breaking red lights. I post a link to a report about a road safety crackdown in London where there were "widespread reports of .... cyclists being fined for running red lights and riding on pavements." and made a (admittedly glib) comment about the LTDA being cheered up by it.

It was neither Whataboutery nor defensive....

...and as for the rules of the road applied and adhered to by all, I never suggested anything to the contrary.

Tenzor07

What a joke, more dichotomous whataboutery by a group who should me more concerned about there own awful road behavior!

gallag

Jawgap wrote: »

Yes, that well known unbiased organisation that does so much to research and report on road safety:rolleyes:

I think a quick review of some of their latest trade publications will give you an idea of where they stand on cycle-lanes, cyclists and pedicabs.

You can't apply bias to a video though, can you? Maybe you they actually have a point to make? I would like to think if I made a post in the motors forum showing a prolific and dangerous practice with video evidence all would be in agreement that it was wrong and needed to stop, why is the cycling community so defensive about these things and willing to defend wrong actions?

RayCun

gallag wrote: »

You can't apply bias to a video though, can you?

In a 90 second video showing highlights from several hours of footage?
Yes, you very much can apply bias to a video.

gallag

RayCun wrote: »

In a 90 second video showing highlights from several hours of footage?
Yes, you very much can apply bias to a video.

You can go to there website for the unedited video.

zl1whqvjs75cdy

Tenzor07 wrote: »

What a joke, more dichotomous whataboutery by a group who should me more concerned about there own awful road behavior!

Video kinda speaks for itself. Taxi drivers may be aggressive on the roads but that doesn't excuse cyclists or anyone else for breaking the rules. In fact I'd say trying to slam taxi drivers in this particular thread is whataboutery on your part.

seamus

gallag wrote: »

So the London taxi association set up hidden cameras about London and found over half of cyclists don't stop at red lights that in the junctions monitored, on average half of the cyclists who arrived at that junction broke the red light

Fixed for accuracy. Saying that over half of cyclists break red lights implies that half of all cyclists break all lights, regardless.

Never thought it would be that high???

Seems really low to me, but that leads back to my point above. If you did a survey, you would probably find that a huge proportion of cyclists (certainly more than 53%) break some lights, some of the time, and an absolutely tiny proportion of cyclists break all lights, all of the time.

Unfortunately because of the nature of the association who carried out this research, the methodology and conclusions drawn are suspect at best.

The preface to the video states that they're trying to disprove that it's a "minority" of cyclists who break the lights, but in reality their cameras could have caught that "minority" breaking lights and skewed the results.

47% of the time, a cyclist will stop at a red light. That's the conclusion really. That's about the same proportion of vehicles which will stop at a red, in my experience.

MB Lacey

An unfunded and unfouned poll by ijudgealltobewrongerthaniam.com found that 88% of all drivers filmed along one section of an extremely busy road in london one day last May were using their mobile phones whilst driving.

:eek:

Jawgap

gallag wrote: »

You can't apply bias to a video though, can you? Maybe you they actually have a point to make? I would like to think if I made a post in the motors forum showing a prolific and dangerous practice with video evidence all would be in agreement that it was wrong and needed to stop, why is the cycling community so defensive about these things and willing to defend wrong actions?

Sure I can. It's evidence that some people somewhere didn't observe a red light. I've no problem with traffic legislation being enforced, but this is just self-serving nonsense by an organisation that thinks cycle lanes are a waste or road space and pedicabs are "bandits." A quick whizz through their website will give you a flavour of where they stand in relation to bikes and other road users.

Why did they pick that junction and that time period? I'm guessing it wasn't even done randomly never mind in any kind of scientifically valid way. Also, were cyclists the only RLJ'ers or did they conveniently edit out other road user who either jumped the lights or broke other rules of the road.

Couple of other points.....

I dispute your definition of prolific

'Cycling Community' - wtf is that? I'm a motorist and pedestrian too or can I only be a member of one 'community'

Finally, if a first year undergrad tried to produce this as evidence of anything other than their ability to use a camera, I'd beat them over the head with it.

morana

its still in London!

Tenzor07

MB Lacey wrote: »

An unfunded and unfouned poll by ijudgealltobewrongerthaniam.com found that 88% of all drivers filmed along one section of an extremely busy road in london one day last May were using their mobile phones whilst driving.:eek:

I've seen that poll!

Though on a personal survey I conducted myself over the years... I have had at least 99% more incidents on the road as a driver and a cyclist with Taxi drivers than any other group of road users...

Jawgap

gallag wrote: »

You can go to there website for the unedited video.

Both of which last an hour - so based on 2 hours of footage from 2 junctions - one filmed in the morning, one in the evening they've derived their conclusion?

Chips Lovell

Not really surprised to be honest. There have been some journeys I've made in Dublin when I haven't encountered a single other cyclist who stopped at the lights.

gallag

Jawgap wrote: »

Sure I can. It's evidence that some people somewhere didn't observe a red light. I've no problem with traffic legislation being enforced, but this is just self-serving nonsense by an organisation that thinks cycle lanes are a waste or road space and pedicabs are "bandits." A quick whizz through their website will give you a flavour of where they stand in relation to bikes and other road users.

Why did they pick that junction and that time period? I'm guessing it wasn't even done randomly never mind in any kind of scientifically valid way. Also, were cyclists the only RLJ'ers or did they conveniently edit out other road user who either jumped the lights or broke other rules of the road.

Couple of other points.....

I dispute your definition of prolific

'Cycling Community' - wtf is that? I'm a motorist and pedestrian too or can I only be a member of one 'community'

Finally, if a first year undergrad tried to produce this as evidence of anything other than their ability to use a camera, I'd beat them over the head with it.

They set a camera up at a junction and took a sample size of 364 cyclists, it's not like they set up for 30sec and filmed six cyclists, would you not agree that 364 is a reasonable amount to gauge this on? The unedited video is avaliable on their site.

gallag

Jawgap wrote: »

Both of which last an hour - so based on 2 hours of footage from 2 junctions - one filmed in the morning, one in the evening they've derived their conclusion?

Do you not think filming 364 cyclists will be reasonably accurate? That is a larger sample size than most surveys would use. It's pretty crazy that most here are are ignoring the simple fact that out of 364 cyclists 53% failed to stop at a red light and assume conspiracy.

Spook_ie

MB Lacey wrote: »

An unfunded and unfouned poll by ijudgealltobewrongerthaniam.com found that 88% of all drivers filmed along one section of an extremely busy road in london one day last May were using their mobile phones whilst driving.

:eek:

Linkee?

gallag

gallag wrote: »

Or they could stop at red lights making the roads a safer and more harmonious place for all? Or do you believe cyclists should not have to follow traffic laws like red lights etc?

Traffic lights are not a safety measure.

ragazzo

gallag wrote: »

Do you not think filming 364 cyclists will be reasonably accurate? That is a larger sample size than most surveys would use. It's pretty crazy that most here are are ignoring the simple fact that out of 364 cyclists 53% failed to stop at a red light and assume conspiracy.

I don't cycle in London or drive a taxi so why exactly are you repeatedly telling me about some random "survey".

I live in Dublin not Londondublin.

gallag

ragazzo wrote: »

I don't cycle in London or drive a taxi so why exactly are you repeatedly telling me about some random "survey".

I live in Dublin not Londondublin.

Why do you feel strongly enough to reply? Pro tip, leave thread if not interested.

endacl

Jabel wrote: »

My No.1 bugbear

Really?

Not wage cuts? Clerical abuse? O'Connell St junkies? Door to door sales?

I can think of a thousand things that annoy me more.

Baron Kurtz

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

Not really surprised to be honest. There have been some journeys I've made in Dublin when I haven't encountered a single other cyclist who stopped at the lights.

As neither am I. Especially on narrow, less busy roads where one knows they'll get to the other side unscathe - many cyclists pay no heed. Grand Canal, a prime example.

What is surprising is how many cars don't stop either. More worrying, but for another thread.

the.red.baron

"If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so"

Thomas Jefferson

Nuff said

MB Lacey

Spook_ie wrote: »

Linkee?

linkee

ragazzo

gallag wrote: »

Why do you feel strongly enough to reply? Pro tip, leave thread if not interested.

Interesting response but the question remains unanswered.

I cycle, I drive more often but I never use taxis. Does that make me one of the 53% in your wonderful survey?

Sorry officer, I have not been in London since 1995.

Thanks for the pro tip. I will always keep that in mind on my approach to all traffic lights red, amber or green.

gallag

gallag wrote: »

So the London taxi association set up hidden cameras about London and found over half of cyclists don't stop at red lights. Never thought it would be that high??? http://youtu.be/eQdV5Ifco2A

What's interesting about this video is that they haven't managed to find a single incident of dangerous cycling to show us.

Can anyone explain what is actually WRONG with the victimless crime that is cruising through a pedestrian crossing when there are no pedestrians in sight?

Why exactly are taxi drivers in London so upset about this?

Genuine question.

Jabel

endacl wrote: »

Really?

Not wage cuts? Clerical abuse? O'Connell St junkies? Door to door sales?

I can think of a thousand things that annoy me more.

While I'm cycling that is...

Jawgap

gallag wrote: »

Do you not think filming 364 cyclists will be reasonably accurate? That is a larger sample size than most surveys would use. It's pretty crazy that most here are are ignoring the simple fact that out of 364 cyclists 53% failed to stop at a red light and assume conspiracy.

I'll see your 53% and raise you a TfL survey.....

Mucco

gallag wrote: »

Do you not think filming 364 cyclists will be reasonably accurate? That is a larger sample size than most surveys would use. It's pretty crazy that most here are are ignoring the simple fact that out of 364 cyclists 53% failed to stop at a red light and assume conspiracy.

While 364 cyclists may be a sufficient sample size, I would suggest that 2 non-randomly chosen junctions is not.
The junctions they chose look particularly 'jumpable' - ie safe to jump the lights as Orinoco has pointed out.

Having said that, the 50% figure doesn't surprise me, but I'm trying to figure out the motivation of the LTDA in broadcasting this.

Spook_ie

MB Lacey wrote: »

linkee

not a linkeeto the survey mentioned just a linkee to a random single photo therefore if I linkee this 100% of cyclists are stopped by traffic corp presumably for law breaking as TC are not known for their friendly chatty ways.

So linkee please to the survey

Michael D Not Higgins

I was in London yesterday and was nearly run down by a cyclist going the wrong side of a traffic island. I'm not sure how applicable their cycling habits translate to Dublin or Ireland in general. I live in Scotland where technically they can ride the footpath legally but I usually only see it on cobbled streets and they tend to go slowly.

NeedMoreGears

Yaay! RLJ thread! We haven't had one for....

Spook_ie wrote: »

not a linkeeto the survey mentioned just a linkee to a random single photo therefore if I linkee this 100% of cyclists are stopped by traffic corp presumably for law breaking as TC are not known for their friendly chatty ways.

So linkee please to the survey

I think the clue is in the name i judge all to be wronger than i am .com

As regards the release of the data, it does seem a bit odd that one group of road users is bothering to highlight the unlawful behaviour of another group.

MB Lacey

Spook_ie wrote: »

not a linkeeto the survey mentioned just a linkee to a random single photo therefore if I linkee this 100% of cyclists are stopped by traffic corp presumably for law breaking as TC are not known for their friendly chatty ways.

So linkee please to the survey

There was no survey. I thought that was obvious from my post and the .com address?

With reference to the presentation of stats by the OP, it's not going to alter the behaviour of RLJ's.
In the same way that stats whether made up or real won't stop drivers who use their mobile phones.

NeedMoreGears

Hada quick look though the the TFL survey, which was done in 2007 and itself indicates it was not sufficiently large enough to be completely relied upon (section 1.12),

Section 7.9 concludes "The majority of cyclists (84%) obey red traffic lights.". This was from a sample of 7,482 (table 17) across six separate locations.

I'd have to admit that seems a very high compliance rate as compared to what I see on my Dublin commute, especially on when the red is to allow pedestrians to cross.

tomasrojo

Wait till you see the academic research the taxi drivers have done on self-driving cars.

Greenmachine

Definitely more cyclists breaking light in Dublin than that. Most of them are what I label creeper. Edging forward bit by bit. Wonder did they count cases of cyclist stopping because of oncoming traffic at a junction.

MrMojoRising

i fùckin hate cyclists.

that is all.

rollingscone

MrMojoRising wrote: »

i fùckin hate cyclists.

that is all.[/quote

Well done. Your medal is in the post.

You know who I hate? Those b@stards in leather shoes. They should all be murdered and their families too.

Because one of them upset me once.

ashleey

Don't bother getting involved!

moc moc a moc

I'll accept criticism from taxi drivers just as soon as they learn how an indicator works.