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53% of cyclists run red lights.

  • 28-11-2013 02:46PM
    #1
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,352 ✭✭✭


    So the London taxi association set up hidden cameras about London and found over half of cyclists don't stop at red lights. Never thought it would be that high??? http://youtu.be/eQdV5Ifco2A


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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 370 ✭✭Jabel


    Not surprising really, I'd say it's higher in Dublin.
    My No.1 bugbear


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭RayCun


    The cyclists are going straight through the top of a T-junction, by the looks of it. I'm more surprised its only 55%


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,105 ✭✭✭morana


    who cares its London!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,481 ✭✭✭Morgan


    I'm glad to see the vast majority are slowing, checking the junction is clear and then proceeding when safe.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 549 ✭✭✭Kav0777


    gallag wrote: »
    So the London taxi association set up hidden cameras about London and found over half of cyclists don't stop at red lights. Never thought it would be that high??? http://youtu.be/eQdV5Ifco2A

    Well this probably cheered them up:

    http://road.cc/content/news/99513-london-flooded-police-road-safety-crackdown
    There have been widespread reports of drivers being ticketed for stopping in advanced stop line ‘bike boxes’ and of cyclists being fined for running red lights and riding on pavements.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,479 ✭✭✭rollingscone


    I've long been an advocate of operation "Swinging hurl" to take care of RLJers and Footpath cyclists.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,352 ✭✭✭gallag


    Kav0777 wrote: »

    Is that whataboutery? Why so defensive? Surely we can all agree that the rules of the road should be applied and adhered to by all?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,352 ✭✭✭gallag


    Morgan wrote: »
    I'm glad to see the vast majority are slowing, checking the junction is clear and then proceeding when safe.

    Or they could stop at red lights making the roads a safer and more harmonious place for all? Or do you believe cyclists should not have to follow traffic laws like red lights etc?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,427 ✭✭✭07Lapierre


    So 47% of all cyclists stop at red lights. That sounds better.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,296 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    gallag wrote: »
    So the London taxi association set up hidden cameras about London and found over half of cyclists don't stop at red lights. Never thought it would be that high??? http://youtu.be/eQdV5Ifco2A

    Yes, that well known unbiased organisation that does so much to research and report on road safety:rolleyes:

    I think a quick review of some of their latest trade publications will give you an idea of where they stand on cycle-lanes, cyclists and pedicabs.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,479 ✭✭✭rollingscone


    Taxi Drivers biased? How dare you criticise the anointed ones for whom the roads were built by God himself.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 549 ✭✭✭Kav0777


    gallag wrote: »
    Is that whataboutery? Why so defensive? Surely we can all agree that the rules of the road should be applied and adhered to by all?

    okaaay, just to recap... you posted the London Taxi Driver Association's video about cyclist breaking red lights. I post a link to a report about a road safety crackdown in London where there were "widespread reports of .... cyclists being fined for running red lights and riding on pavements." and made a (admittedly glib) comment about the LTDA being cheered up by it.

    It was neither Whataboutery nor defensive....

    ...and as for the rules of the road applied and adhered to by all, I never suggested anything to the contrary.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,491 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    What a joke, more dichotomous whataboutery by a group who should me more concerned about there own awful road behavior!


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,352 ✭✭✭gallag


    Jawgap wrote: »
    Yes, that well known unbiased organisation that does so much to research and report on road safety:rolleyes:

    I think a quick review of some of their latest trade publications will give you an idea of where they stand on cycle-lanes, cyclists and pedicabs.
    You can't apply bias to a video though, can you? Maybe you they actually have a point to make? I would like to think if I made a post in the motors forum showing a prolific and dangerous practice with video evidence all would be in agreement that it was wrong and needed to stop, why is the cycling community so defensive about these things and willing to defend wrong actions?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭RayCun


    gallag wrote: »
    You can't apply bias to a video though, can you?

    In a 90 second video showing highlights from several hours of footage?
    Yes, you very much can apply bias to a video.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,352 ✭✭✭gallag


    RayCun wrote: »
    In a 90 second video showing highlights from several hours of footage?
    Yes, you very much can apply bias to a video.

    You can go to there website for the unedited video.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,041 ✭✭✭zl1whqvjs75cdy


    Tenzor07 wrote: »
    What a joke, more dichotomous whataboutery by a group who should me more concerned about there own awful road behavior!

    Video kinda speaks for itself. Taxi drivers may be aggressive on the roads but that doesn't excuse cyclists or anyone else for breaking the rules. In fact I'd say trying to slam taxi drivers in this particular thread is whataboutery on your part.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,173 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    gallag wrote: »
    So the London taxi association set up hidden cameras about London and found over half of cyclists don't stop at red lights that in the junctions monitored, on average half of the cyclists who arrived at that junction broke the red light
    Fixed for accuracy. Saying that over half of cyclists break red lights implies that half of all cyclists break all lights, regardless.
    Never thought it would be that high???
    Seems really low to me, but that leads back to my point above. If you did a survey, you would probably find that a huge proportion of cyclists (certainly more than 53%) break some lights, some of the time, and an absolutely tiny proportion of cyclists break all lights, all of the time.

    Unfortunately because of the nature of the association who carried out this research, the methodology and conclusions drawn are suspect at best.

    The preface to the video states that they're trying to disprove that it's a "minority" of cyclists who break the lights, but in reality their cameras could have caught that "minority" breaking lights and skewed the results.

    47% of the time, a cyclist will stop at a red light. That's the conclusion really. That's about the same proportion of vehicles which will stop at a red, in my experience.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,278 ✭✭✭MB Lacey


    An unfunded and unfouned poll by ijudgealltobewrongerthaniam.com found that 88% of all drivers filmed along one section of an extremely busy road in london one day last May were using their mobile phones whilst driving.

    :eek:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,296 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    gallag wrote: »
    You can't apply bias to a video though, can you? Maybe you they actually have a point to make? I would like to think if I made a post in the motors forum showing a prolific and dangerous practice with video evidence all would be in agreement that it was wrong and needed to stop, why is the cycling community so defensive about these things and willing to defend wrong actions?

    Sure I can. It's evidence that some people somewhere didn't observe a red light. I've no problem with traffic legislation being enforced, but this is just self-serving nonsense by an organisation that thinks cycle lanes are a waste or road space and pedicabs are "bandits." A quick whizz through their website will give you a flavour of where they stand in relation to bikes and other road users.

    Why did they pick that junction and that time period? I'm guessing it wasn't even done randomly never mind in any kind of scientifically valid way. Also, were cyclists the only RLJ'ers or did they conveniently edit out other road user who either jumped the lights or broke other rules of the road.

    Couple of other points.....

    I dispute your definition of prolific

    'Cycling Community' - wtf is that? I'm a motorist and pedestrian too or can I only be a member of one 'community'

    Finally, if a first year undergrad tried to produce this as evidence of anything other than their ability to use a camera, I'd beat them over the head with it.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,105 ✭✭✭morana


    its still in London!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,491 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    MB Lacey wrote: »
    An unfunded and unfouned poll by ijudgealltobewrongerthaniam.com found that 88% of all drivers filmed along one section of an extremely busy road in london one day last May were using their mobile phones whilst driving.:eek:

    I've seen that poll! :D

    Though on a personal survey I conducted myself over the years... I have had at least 99% more incidents on the road as a driver and a cyclist with Taxi drivers than any other group of road users...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,296 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    gallag wrote: »
    You can go to there website for the unedited video.

    Both of which last an hour - so based on 2 hours of footage from 2 junctions - one filmed in the morning, one in the evening they've derived their conclusion?


  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,277 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    Not really surprised to be honest. There have been some journeys I've made in Dublin when I haven't encountered a single other cyclist who stopped at the lights.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,352 ✭✭✭gallag


    Jawgap wrote: »
    Sure I can. It's evidence that some people somewhere didn't observe a red light. I've no problem with traffic legislation being enforced, but this is just self-serving nonsense by an organisation that thinks cycle lanes are a waste or road space and pedicabs are "bandits." A quick whizz through their website will give you a flavour of where they stand in relation to bikes and other road users.

    Why did they pick that junction and that time period? I'm guessing it wasn't even done randomly never mind in any kind of scientifically valid way. Also, were cyclists the only RLJ'ers or did they conveniently edit out other road user who either jumped the lights or broke other rules of the road.

    Couple of other points.....

    I dispute your definition of prolific

    'Cycling Community' - wtf is that? I'm a motorist and pedestrian too or can I only be a member of one 'community'

    Finally, if a first year undergrad tried to produce this as evidence of anything other than their ability to use a camera, I'd beat them over the head with it.

    They set a camera up at a junction and took a sample size of 364 cyclists, it's not like they set up for 30sec and filmed six cyclists, would you not agree that 364 is a reasonable amount to gauge this on? The unedited video is avaliable on their site.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,352 ✭✭✭gallag


    Jawgap wrote: »
    Both of which last an hour - so based on 2 hours of footage from 2 junctions - one filmed in the morning, one in the evening they've derived their conclusion?

    Do you not think filming 364 cyclists will be reasonably accurate? That is a larger sample size than most surveys would use. It's pretty crazy that most here are are ignoring the simple fact that out of 364 cyclists 53% failed to stop at a red light and assume conspiracy.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,892 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    MB Lacey wrote: »
    An unfunded and unfouned poll by ijudgealltobewrongerthaniam.com found that 88% of all drivers filmed along one section of an extremely busy road in london one day last May were using their mobile phones whilst driving.

    :eek:

    Linkee?


  • Posts: 1,766 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    gallag wrote: »
    Or they could stop at red lights making the roads a safer and more harmonious place for all? Or do you believe cyclists should not have to follow traffic laws like red lights etc?

    Traffic lights are not a safety measure.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 298 ✭✭ragazzo


    gallag wrote: »
    Do you not think filming 364 cyclists will be reasonably accurate? That is a larger sample size than most surveys would use. It's pretty crazy that most here are are ignoring the simple fact that out of 364 cyclists 53% failed to stop at a red light and assume conspiracy.

    I don't cycle in London or drive a taxi so why exactly are you repeatedly telling me about some random "survey".

    I live in Dublin not Londondublin.


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,352 ✭✭✭gallag


    ragazzo wrote: »
    I don't cycle in London or drive a taxi so why exactly are you repeatedly telling me about some random "survey".

    I live in Dublin not Londondublin.

    Why do you feel strongly enough to reply? Pro tip, leave thread if not interested.


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