Draft plan for Mahon to go on display

cork_south

I'm all for new jobs but the current traffic levels in Mahon are a joke at peak hours.
15 years ago the whole Mahon point area was a green field with a few horses running around, yet our planners made a monumental balls of the road infrastructure.


http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/draft-plan-for-mahon-to-go-on-display-250750.html


City councillors voted last night to adopt the draft Mahon local area plan, which proposes more development on the peninsula despite its chronic traffic problems.

The plan says the area can accommodate a population increase of 7,000 and can handle 2,850 new residential units and 8,000 new workers.

This is despite National Road Authority concerns that extra travel demand on the N40 South Link Road results in unacceptable levels of congestion or queuing at the Mahon interchange.

Last night’s decision to adopt the draft plan came after more than an hour of debate and votes on several amendments, including a decision by councillors to allow for employment and business technology uses of up to 15,000 sq m on Jacob’s Islands.

This vote came despite a recommendation from traffic experts that office development should be concentrated in the central Mahon area, and that allowing office development on Jacob’s Island would make traffic in the area worse.

City manager Tim Lucey said massive investment in public transport infrastructure would be critical if the area was to survive during the lifetime of the plan, which sets out, in its first phase, to increase employment levels to 12,000 people by 2021.

He said existing planning permissions would deliver that target but he expressed concerns about granting further permission for the 15,000 sq m of office space on Jacob’s Island later in the plan because of how it could affect the city centre.

He said a public transport plan for the area proposes a rapid bus transit system serving the central Mahon area 15 times an hour, and three bus routes serving the area six times an hour.

The transport plan only provides for one bus route with six rotations an hour serving Jacob’s Island.

Mr Lucey said new office development on Jacob’s Island would increase the cost of delivering a public transport system to the area which may not even be funded by the National Transport Authority.

The draft plan took two years to complete and covers a vast area, just off the N40 South Link Road and close to the Jack Lynch Tunnel.

Mahon is home to one of Ireland’s largest shopping centres, a massive retail park, the National Software Centre, the CSO headquarters, the Mater Private Hospital, and several hi-tech software companies.

The residential area of Jacob’s Island is located just across the N40 where chronic traffic jams are a problem at peak hours.

Once the plan is advertised, the public will have up to eight weeks to examine it and offer feedback before the final plan is adopted.
© Irish Examiner Ltd. All rights reserved

kcb

Someone doesn't know the difference between the South Link Road and The South Ring Road!

Fabio

Thanks for posting that up.

I live in Mahon and the traffic is indeed a nightmare, I could see it happening when I was a small fella so surely qualified planners should have been able to see it too. Essentially what is going to happen here is the centre of what would traditionally be called "Mahon", around where the Red Cove Inn is etc, will fall into dereliction as all new developments will be concentrated by the shopping centre and then you've the associated traffic...

jimgoose

Has anyone any notion of doing something useful with the huge ex-Motorola facility down there, I wonder?

brevity

jimgoose wrote: »

Has anyone any notion of doing something useful with the huge ex-Motorola facility down there, I wonder?

I've heard that Abtran are moving in there.

AugustusMinimus

A solution to help Mahon traffic I posted in the roads forum some time ago.



Help the Mahon Interchange by providing direct access to Mahon Point Shopping Centre from the N40.



Something like this. The exit out will allow an exit Eastbound on the South Ring Road. In order to use to exit Westbound, uses this sliproad and then do a 180 using the access road before entering the tunnel.

The entrance can be used going westbound on the SRR. If you are going eastbound and want to enter the Shopping Centre, keep going until the entrance of the tunnel, use the sliplane to avoid the tunnel and double back on yourself and use the entrance.

Such a setup would see a massive improvement at the Mahon Junction with no one having to use the present junction to gain entrance and exit from the shopping centre. Wouldn't cost that much to implement either.

AlonzoHarris

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

A solution to help Mahon traffic I posted in the roads forum some time ago.

You have come very close to the planners proposals, though they only have a slip road exit Northbound towards the JL tunnel from the car park..

AugustusMinimus

All 4 of those new roads would make a major difference to the area. Hopefully all 4 will go ahead.

lostinsuperfunk

This is an alternative proposal to ease the traffic problems in Mahon

ofcork

Mahon point definitely needs its own exit onto the ring road,would ease a lot of the traffic.

BUNK1982

I work in Mahon and travel eastbound on the South Ring Road - it definitely needs addressing now before the problem balloons altogether.

On some occasions the turn off for Mahon Point is backed up as far as the merging traffic from Douglas/ Carrigaline so you have a ludicrous situation where cars looking to merge into the middle lane are being blocked by cars trying to get into the furthest left lane to make the Mahon turn off.

Just goes to show what the planning, council authorities were up to in the good old days!

rovoagho

All we need now is a bridge over the tunnel.....

minidazzler

ofcork wrote: »

Mahon point definitely needs its own exit onto the ring road,would ease a lot of the traffic.

The ironic thing here is that the original planning application for Mahon Point included a direct slip road for Northbound traffic but was blown out by the same crowd that are now proposing it!!

GavRedKing

That skehard road connection wont happen, it would have to run straight through what is now a GAA pitch.

http://goo.gl/maps/nr9Yc

rovoagho

Win win then.

kub

GavRedKing wrote: »

That skehard road connection wont happen, it would have to run straight through what is now a GAA pitch.

http://goo.gl/maps/nr9Yc

GAA could toll the traffic as it passes over.

GavRedKing

While the GAA do love money I dont think thats ever going to happen :pac:

One of the pitches would have to go and the Ballinure pitch, on the right of the picture has been there for 50 years or something, the St Michaels pitch on the right is only fairly new, maybe 5 years old or less. Theres no way they'll add a slip road from that side anyway.

The only way I can see it is the back of the MP car park on to the South Ring road it would take away some of the congestion anyway at the MP junction.

ofcork

They should not allow any more development ie retail in Jacobs island until the junction is sorted.

kub

GavRedKing wrote: »

While the GAA do love money I dont think thats ever going to happen :pac:.

Sorry my attempt at humour, I cannot see NRA allowing another slip road between the existing east bound and the tunnel.
The only solution I can imagine is an upgrade of the existing slip to emcompass a slip from the shopping centre car park.

opus

brevity wrote: »

I've heard that Abtran are moving in there.

Yup it's going to be the call centre for Irish Water, that new tax that's coming in next year.

hoodwinked

rovoagho wrote: »

All we need now is a bridge over the tunnel.....

but wasn't the idea behind the tunnel that ships could still enter the harbour?


what we need is a second tunnel to the left of the original that goes under the water but over the east -> north city N25 road (to the left of the roundabout, (so the traffic going over the roundabout goes under this flyover) and the flyover links straight to the M8,

(also straightens the road onto the motorway)


Might have to get the people in those two houses to move though they are in my way....

AlonzoHarris

Additional slip road was shot down by the NRA.

Eoin English ‏@EoinBearla 22h
Cllr Des Cahill says NRA told cllrs today that they won't allow any extra ramps to be built off N40 to Mahon Point or Jacob's Is #corkcc

Fabio

Any idea why not?

Markcheese

Reason is the n40 has become a local feeder road, (ie.you use it to go to Mahon point and other local journeys) . The city is happy to do this because they don't have to spend big on local roads or public transport links.. The NRA isn't happy because it threatens to overwhelm the n40 making it useless as a national route , so in the end they'd have to try and put extra lanes on the n40, and plan on another outer ring road... More or less...

Missyelliot2

Wow! Don't envy the people who live in Jacobs Island.

Red Nissan

Missyelliot2 wrote: »

Wow! Don't envy the people who live in Jacobs Island.

When I moved to Ballinure, that's 30 years ago, we were told at the time that the developments would be twice as big as they are.

Subsequently, Mahon development halted more or less at it current size. They chopped and changed the overall plan for the retail and commercial sections to develop the 'most urgent' sections to prevent another major problem in the area.

The annual Easter migration of thousands of traveler families into the area. Where they camped was the first developments, so the whole thing was in fact never actually planned out, rather an emergency responce once overall planning had been approved and the resultant mess, was the result of this now ad hoc building arrangement that exist today and the remaining serviceable land.

My own opinion now is the whole thing needs to be preplanned, planning may exist for a structure, but the original plan may have seen something else built and not where the planning was for.

AugustusMinimus

AlonzoHarris wrote: »

Additional slip road was shot down by the NRA.

Eoin English ‏@EoinBearla 22h
Cllr Des Cahill says NRA told cllrs today that they won't allow any extra ramps to be built off N40 to Mahon Point or Jacob's Is #corkcc

I have no doubt this will be reviewed. Extra sliproads are badly needed.

As it stands, the N40 itself being 2 lanes isn't a huge issues. There is no great need to increase to 3 lanes east of Mahon point. Its the bloody junctions which are the major problem.

Improving these junctions will not bring extra traffic IMO.

grogi

Markcheese wrote: »

Reason is the n40 has become a local feeder road, (ie.you use it to go to Mahon point and other local journeys) . The city is happy to do this because they don't have to spend big on local roads or public transport links.. The NRA isn't happy because it threatens to overwhelm the n40 making it useless as a national route , so in the end they'd have to try and put extra lanes on the n40, and plan on another outer ring road... More or less...

What a nonsense... Virtually everywhere in the developed world there is a huge push of the cars out of the cities - cities for pedestrians, bicycles and public transport. In most countries with non-free motorways, the rings are free of charge - generally to encourage people to use those and not the local roads.

And the City, even if wanted, cannot build more roads. There simply is no room for it... Where those local roads should be placed - I think even more outer than N40 is...

grogi

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

Improving these junctions will not bring extra traffic IMO.

It definitely would bring some. But massively reduce the congestion in the city itself.

AugustusMinimus

grogi wrote: »

It definitely would bring some. But massively reduce the congestion in the city itself.

Maybe a little. However, if these sliproads were done in conjunction with the Dunkettle Interchange upgrade, then I can't see any issue why it would cause any more congestion on the N40.

IMO, the eventual build of the N40 NRR section would also help a lot to ease pressure off the SRR.

Nash Bridges

This might be a stupid question but does the NRA have the absolute final say in this?
There is awful traffic in that area which can have a lot of pressure eased quite easily with another slip road onto the N40 heading east.

However perhaps I'm being selfish and rather than solving a local issue the functionality of the N40 should be looked at from a national POV, which is presumably why the proposal was turned down..

Markcheese

Could the junctions themselves be improved/expanded to get traffic through quicker or is there no room really ... The Jacobs island side of the junction on to and off of the slips is particularly tight... The changes that were made by the entrance to the shopping centre helped but I guess if you get cars through that junction quicker the next one will snarl ...

grogi

Markcheese wrote: »

Could the junctions themselves be improved/expanded to get traffic through quicker or is there no room really ... The Jacobs island side of the junction on to and off of the slips is particularly tight... The changes that were made by the entrance to the shopping centre helped but I guess if you get cars through that junction quicker the next one will snarl ...

What could also help is different traffic light patterns for different times of day...

In the mornings there is a huge volume coming from N40, in the evenings going to N40...

Red Nissan

grogi wrote: »

What could also help is different traffic light patterns for different times of day... .

Already in operation in fact. Hmm.

AugustusMinimus

Those slip roads were by far the best solution. I can see an appeal going in and something being done. It is quite the disaster there at the moment.

phatmanwc

NRA tend to stick to their guns on these issues. National Route = just that, commuter and local issues tend to take a back seat. So, as long as the congestion doesn't spill over onto the South Ring itself, and block the through-flow of traffic, I wouldn't expect the NRA to be jumping with excitement about sticking in extra slip roads etc. which, being honest about it, would have safety issues re weaving lengths etc.

The whole set-up is a mess though! What about a fly-over east-west across the Mahon Point Junction? i.e. at the shopping centre/retail park traffic lights. Would at least alleviate congestion here, but can't see C/B ratio for that looking too good.

This doesn't bode well for ever improving access to/from Douglas village either, in terms of precedent, although not sure how realistic that was anyway...

spacetweek

phatmanwc wrote: »

So, as long as the congestion doesn't spill over onto the South Ring itself, and block the through-flow of traffic,

But apparently that is happening.

AugustusMinimus

spacetweek wrote: »

But apparently that is happening.

Indeed. There are times that traffic queues form which back onto the SRR going in both directions. Potentially very dangerous.

The NRA need a bit of cop on here. Surely they must realise that there is integration between the N40 and feeder roads which lead to the N40. Are we really living in some sort fantasy land where the NRA knows about the huge congestion in Mahon but think to themselves, not our problem.

I'd email a few of my local councillors but Laura McGonigle would suggest putting up more traffic lights as being the solution.

AugustusMinimus

phatmanwc wrote: »

I wouldn't expect the NRA to be jumping with excitement about sticking in extra slip roads etc. which, being honest about it, would have safety issues re weaving lengths etc.

A new sliproad leading into Mahon which avoids the shopping centre doesn't bring any related weaving problems though.

If there is a new sliproad leading out of Mahon point, just increase the length of the slip roads. IMO, the exiting sliproads should not be done until the Dunkettle Interchange upgrade is completed. This would alleviate the problem of having to merge into queued traffic.



What kills me time and again though is the short sightedness of the NRA, engineers, Cork Co Co etc. I'm always amazed at how Bloomfield was built as a trumpet. In my mind with the idiocy of junction building at a national level, it should have been built as a grade separated roundabout.

Similarly, the Mahon interchange should have been built as a freeflow interchange. Partially unrolled cloverleafs seem to be the flavour of the month in this regard. There was plenty of space to do it at the time. Sadly, this ship has sailed.

phatmanwc wrote: »

NRA tend to stick to their guns on these issues. National Route = just that, commuter and local issues tend to take a back seat.

And of course, as part of the recent Sarsfield - Bandon roundabout upgrade, the NRA has provided direct access to the Bishopstown Court SC directly off the SRR. The hypocrisy of government in this country is staggering.

Red Nissan

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

Similarly, the Mahon interchange should have been built as a freeflow interchange. Partially unrolled cloverleafs seem to be the flavour of the month in this regard. There was plenty of space to do it at the time. Sadly, this ship has sailed..

The Irony is that at the earlier stages of the build, a flyover was being prepared which would have seen the through flow traffic entering and leaving the city largely unaffected by the slip traffic into the shopping centre or retail park and acces to either via a roundabout under the flyover.

In other words all access was a left turn. But then all work stopped for what seemed like ages and when work began again the mountain the that had been made for the flyover was demolished. And the junction 'flattened'

Red Nissan

What exactly was the outcome from Monday's Council meeting?

Pland have been approved from Mahon Point, but I'm unclear as to what exactly is happening, where is the Hotel and Offices gong?

I think Jacob's Island ~ that was the original plan.

But they also mention the overflow car park in MP Shopping Complex.

The Bessborro Bridge is cancelled.

phatmanwc

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

And of course, as part of the recent Sarsfield - Bandon roundabout upgrade, the NRA has provided direct access to the Bishopstown Court SC directly off the SRR. The hypocrisy of government in this country is staggering.

Yeah, that's a questionable decision alright. I suppose it not being on the mainline had something to do with it, but all the same...

AugustusMinimus

Red Nissan wrote: »

What exactly was the outcome from Monday's Council meeting?

Pland have been approved from Mahon Point, but I'm unclear as to what exactly is happening, where is the Hotel and Offices gong?

I think Jacob's Island ~ that was the original plan.

But they also mention the overflow car park in MP Shopping Complex.

The Bessborro Bridge is cancelled.

Whats the Bessborro Bridge ?

Red Nissan

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

Whats the Bessborro Bridge ?

Bessboro Bridge, not familiar with it.

zetalambda

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

Whats the Bessborro Bridge ?

Center of the picture.