Why are dealers only getting in diesels?

witless_steve

I thought I'd check out the new models and see if there was anything shiny to save up for next year. I'm shocked to find that a lot of them are placing a huge focus on diesels. The lower trimmed models do come in petrol but anything with some kind of luxury is diesel only. I'm positively livid with Mazda, the only model they supply in petrol is the bargain bucket model. Anything beyond that only comes in diesel. Now maybe it's just me, maybe I'm hopelessly out of touch with the modern car market. I do a lot of urban driving and don't do high milage or drive very far distances so a diesel would probably hate me. Yet the dealers are bending over backwards to talk me out of giving them my few shillings. Is car tax really that massive a sales point?

jimgoose

witless_steve wrote: »

...Is car tax really that massive a sales point?

Yes. Yes it is. Welcome to Ireland.

bazz26

Simples, they are ordering and stocking models that they know they can sell easily. No point in buying petrol cars if very little people want them as they are then stuck with them. That is what the majority of average joes want these days.

witless_steve

So a few quid a year in car tax stops us having any choice in model?

Bogger77

it's not just in Ireland, the EU CO2 taxes are affecting everywhere.

MuppetCheck

witless_steve wrote: »

So a few quid a year in car tax stops us having any choice in model?

Tiny, miniscule, unimportant market on the periphery of Europe so we take what we're given.

Look German if you want petrol these days as it seems they have the largest range of petrol options.

witless_steve

The VRT I can understand, but my car tax wouldn't put petrol in the car for 2 months.
Makes my head hurt.

witless_steve

I have a feeling I just need to hang on until Extended Range electric vehicles get a little cheaper, would be easier on the engine if I'm pootling around town most of the time.

bazz26

From a business point of view it doesn't make financial sense to buy in petrol models if only occasionally the odd person buys one. That means your money is tied up in stock you most likely will not sell. And when it comes to car buying in Ireland, motor tax has always been the major factor in the buying decision of cars irrespective of any other running costs.

witless_steve

Still doesn't explain why the model wouldn't be on the order book and let the customer order it if they want one.

dredg

witless_steve wrote: »

I thought I'd check out the new models and see if there was anything shiny to save up for next year. I'm shocked to find that a lot of them are placing a huge focus on diesels. The lower trimmed models do come in petrol but anything with some kind of luxury is diesel only. I'm positively livid with Mazda, the only model they supply in petrol is the bargain bucket model. Anything beyond that only comes in diesel. Now maybe it's just me, maybe I'm hopelessly out of touch with the modern car market. I do a lot of urban driving and don't do high milage or drive very far distances so a diesel would probably hate me. Yet the dealers are bending over backwards to talk me out of giving them my few shillings. Is car tax really that massive a sales point?

Yes, it is.
Did you ask Mazda what your petrol options are? Or did they just fob you off? Consider buying outside the country and importing.

witless_steve

Oh I got the official brochure and there's only one petrol model..the bargain bucket model...I had a chat with the dealer and told them I wasn't terribly thrilled to find my business wasn't wanted.

Bogger77

bazz26 wrote: »

From a business point of view it doesn't make financial sense to buy in petrol models if only occasionally the odd person buys one. That means your money is tied up in stock you most likely will not sell.

give the dealer a deposit, and they'll order you what you want?

witless_steve

that's what I thought, maybe the guys can order the UK model but I doubt it...and if they do it would probably be cheaper if I did it myself.

witless_steve

I can get why the dealer might only get in certain models but it's a bit rich to find the brand itself doesn't want to give you what you want.

bazz26

Bogger77 wrote: »

give the dealer a deposit, and they'll order you what you want?

They can only order what is available to them. Car manufacturers have their production lines set up in the most efficient way. This may include a certain line for "Irish spec" models based on what their distributors order.

jimgoose

I test-drove one of the new V8 petrol Jaguar XFs last year. The salesman told me not to buy it, as he wouldn't take it back off me. I said "What??" and he said, "Seriously for your own good, don't buy this thing. I won't take it back in a year or two, when you're tradin' 'er in, like!". I just left, trying not to sh!t myself laughing. Ireland. Jibbering all our Jabies since 1922!

witless_steve

Does make you scratch your head sometimes.
Oh well, will have to see how hard it is to import it, or just look at other brands that might have what I need.

mike65

jimgoose wrote: »

I test-drove one of the new V8 petrol Jaguar XFs last year. The salesman told me not to buy it, as he wouldn't take it back off me. I said "What??" and he said, "Seriously for your own good, don't buy this thing. I won't take it back in a year or two, when you're tradin' 'er in, like!". I just left, trying not to sh!t myself laughing. Ireland. Jibbering all our Jabies since 1922!

Sounds like he has his head screwed on. Why get caught out buying back a car worth half feck all?

witless_steve

Still odd to have a dealer admit it though.

jimgoose

mike65 wrote: »

Sounds like he has his head screwed on. Why get caught out buying back a car worth half feck all?

For one thing, he is under no obligation whatsoever to buy anything back. For another, I'm one of these people who looks both gormless and affluent, and I pulled up in a dirty great petrol Jag, so I would expect the youngfella to go "Maybe, just maybe, we've got a bona-fide head-case here who might actually buy this thing because he likes it and not be too hooped about such pedestrian matters as economy and re-sale value.". I would, in short, have expected him to try to sell me the car, given that that's sort of what these people do for a living. Clearly I am tragically unversed with the finer points of the motor-trade! :pac::pac::pac:

japasca

I was under the impression that 80% of the country would be driving a 2 litre Diesel by 2012, and thought to myself "I suppose i can live with +/-180BHP from now on".
But as i searched for new 2012/2013 Audi's and BMW's i realised that now the models for sale were 1.6tdi's and bluemotions etc with a paltry 105bhp with a manual gearbox and grey cloth interior....
I guess thats what people want, so i'll let them off and i'll import my cars from the uk from now on.
The lack of 530d's was really hard to take

veetwin

jimgoose wrote: »

I test-drove one of the new V8 petrol Jaguar XFs last year. The salesman told me not to buy it, as he wouldn't take it back off me. I said "What??" and he said, "Seriously for your own good, don't buy this thing. I won't take it back in a year or two, when you're tradin' 'er in, like!". I just left, trying not to sh!t myself laughing. Ireland. Jibbering all our Jabies since 1922!

I think you should go ahead and order one. Seriously. I'll take it off your hands no problem after 2 years. 20% of the original price ok with you?

ABajaninCork

I'm not a diesel fan either. I don't do enough miles to justify one. The stock and spec of petrol models here is awful. I would never buy another petrol model here again, and will be going to the UK for my next car.

What is it about the Irish obsession with diesel?

dredg

ABajaninCork wrote: »

I'm not a diesel fan either. I don't do enough miles to justify one. The stock and spec of petrol models here is awful. I would never buy another petrol model here again, and will be going to the UK for my next car.

What is it about the Irish obsession with diesel?

It's not an obsession with diesel. It's an obsession with paying less tax. The previous low-tax cars (gutless 1.4l petrols) have been replaced with equally gutless diesels because the tax is cheaper. Irish people would prefer to spend 40 or 50k on a new car but the tax had better not be more than a couple hundred a year.

The_Honeybadger

ABajaninCork wrote: »

I'm not a diesel fan either. I don't do enough miles to justify one. The stock and spec of petrol models here is awful. I would never buy another petrol model here again, and will be going to the UK for my next car.

What is it about the Irish obsession with diesel?

I think a lot of it stems from uneducated 'man down the pub' talk. People do not understand that there are other costs and factors besides fuel and tax, and that a diesel is not always the best option depending on the individual situation.

Of course the upside is that if you are in the market for a used petrol you are on a winner. Dealers can't give em away and huge bargains can be had.

Supergurrier

jimgoose wrote: »

I test-drove one of the new V8 petrol Jaguar XFs last year. The salesman told me not to buy it, as he wouldn't take it back off me. I said "What??" and he said, "Seriously for your own good, don't buy this thing. I won't take it back in a year or two, when you're tradin' 'er in, like!". I just left, trying not to sh!t myself laughing. Ireland. Jibbering all our Jabies since 1922!

I would have turned to him and said "Well done you just talked yourself out of a sale, cya"

What a jackass

Lissavane

I was thinking of buying a new car under the scrappage scheme a few years ago.

Went to a nearby Toyota dealer and explained that I did very low mileage and had heard that a diesel mightn't be suitable with possible dpf problems. He agreed and said he would recommend a diesel to me only if I was going to trade in within 3 years, before the warranty expired. He mentioned some other possible diesel engine risks that I don't recall.

I thought it quite honest of him as low mileage diesel problems were not widely reported in Ireland at the time and his stock was mainly diesel.

MuppetCheck

I can see the point in the dealer saying they wouldn't like to sell one to you. There no doubt be people insulted by a trade in value in a few years. But I have heard anecdotally of cars being taken back due to low miles and dpf problems.

Tropheus

witless_steve wrote: »

So a few quid a year in car tax stops us having any choice in model?

I'm sure a dealer will order in whatever you want once you stump up a deposit. Problem is it will take a few months to get it.

dredg

Tropheus wrote: »

I'm sure a dealer will order in whatever you want once you stump up a deposit. Problem is it will take a few months to get it.

See, to me the only point of buying new is to get it tailored to exactly how you want it. I have no idea why anyone would fork over a lot of cash to get a lowest-spec car straight off the forecourt. If you're getting exactly what you want then what's the problem with waiting a couple of months while it's built to order?

MuppetCheck

dredg wrote: »

See, to me the only point of buying new is to get it tailored to exactly how you want it. I have no idea why anyone would fork over a lot of cash to get a lowest-spec car straight off the forecourt. If you're getting exactly what you want then what's the problem with waiting a couple of months while it's built to order?

I can't understand buying whatever in stock unless it's at a discount.

ucracraman

Now a days the dealers won't be expecting someone to come in and ask for a petrol car when it's better in most ways in the diesel version!

For Forks Sake

ucracraman wrote: »

Now a days the dealers won't be expecting someone to come in and ask for a petrol car when it's better in most ways in the diesel version!

Would you care to elaborate your well though-out theory further?

R.O.R

Mazda's are ordered by Mazda Ireland, from the factory, many months before they arrive to Ireland.

If you order a Mazda and it's not on the ground somewhere in Ireland, the order is matched up to a production slot that Mazda Ireland sorted out ages ago - that's why the only options are the colours. Mazda aren't going to order Petrol's that would likely end up in stock for ages before being sold off at a loss.

To get a vehicle on a price list isn't just a case of sticking it down on a piece of paper. All figures need revenue approval before they are published, and stat codes creating. Whether this is a cost to manufacturers/importers, I'm not sure, but it's more work than just pulling a figure from the air and sticking it on a price list. When it's unlikely they'll sell any of that model (or they haven't in the previous couple of years when it has been on the price list) then they just won't bother having it available to order.

Days 298

Back when I was in primary school in the around 2000 I could always tell when my mum was around the corner because she had the only diesel of all the parents Now every car is diesel.

My family has always been diesel. Heavy motorway mileage and heavy city driving too. Never had much bother. Just need to know how to take care of them.

Doubt many of the "new" diesel owners are. Especially those mini SUVs with mummies never leaving the city and driving in heavy traffic all the time.

Up until 2008 it was 80% petrol and it's completely swung now.

Price of juice is too much for some. €1.60 plus high tax is just too much. They'll push electric cars but once we are on them I can't see the gov reducing how much it sucks from the people who just want to get from a to b.

Fuel costs are equal to when a barrel of oil was $150 in 2008. Tax is crazy.

If fuel ever goes lower than €1 I can see people switching back to petrol hopefully but I don't think it physically can with all the tax now...

Casati

R.O.R wrote: »

Mazda's are ordered by Mazda Ireland, from the factory, many months before they arrive to Ireland.

If you order a Mazda and it's not on the ground somewhere in Ireland, the order is matched up to a production slot that Mazda Ireland sorted out ages ago - that's why the only options are the colours. Mazda aren't going to order Petrol's that would likely end up in stock for ages before being sold off at a loss.

To get a vehicle on a price list isn't just a case of sticking it down on a piece of paper. All figures need revenue approval before they are published, and stat codes creating. Whether this is a cost to manufacturers/importers, I'm not sure, but it's more work than just pulling a figure from the air and sticking it on a price list. When it's unlikely they'll sell any of that model (or they haven't in the previous couple of years when it has been on the price list) then they just won't bother having it available to order.

I cant see this being a tonne of work, dealers and the trade in general appear to be lazy, with some exceptions, generally the German brands dont mind making a decent choice available- e.g VAG/ Opel/ BMW/ Mercedes tend to be available in most petrol and diesel variations across a range of trim. The pricing of some of the petrols are much higher than similar diesels but fair play to them for bothering to list them and offer the punter a choice

Japanese, Korean and Ford obviously dont care less. I was told by a dealer he could not order a 1.6 petrol Mondeo but yet he also told me not to buy a diesel if I was just doing short city runs due to DPF/ DMF issues etc. Until the business in Ireland reacts to customer requirements, more imported cars from the U.K. will be landing at a ferry terminal near you!

The_Honeybadger

Casati wrote: »

I cant see this being a tonne of work, dealers and the trade in general appear to be lazy, with some exceptions, generally the German brands dont mind making a decent choice available- e.g VAG/ Opel/ BMW/ Mercedes tend to be available in most petrol and diesel variations across a range of trim. The pricing of some of the petrols are much higher than similar diesels but fair play to them for bothering to list them and offer the punter a choice

Japanese, Korean and Ford obviously dont care less. I was told by a dealer he could not order a 1.6 petrol Mondeo but yet he also told me not to buy a diesel if I was just doing short city runs due to DPF/ DMF issues etc. Until the business in Ireland reacts to customer requirements, more imported cars from the U.K. will be landing at a ferry terminal near you!

They are responding to customer needs, everybody wants diesel and that is what they are stocking. I recently saw a mint 2007 Mondeo petrol on a dealers forecourt priced at € 2500 and he wasn't even getting enquiries for it. Not one phone call in weeks, despite it being a great deal for the right customer. An equivalent diesel would be twice if not three times the price and be sold in a week.

Daveysil15

witless_steve wrote: »

I thought I'd check out the new models and see if there was anything shiny to save up for next year. I'm shocked to find that a lot of them are placing a huge focus on diesels. The lower trimmed models do come in petrol but anything with some kind of luxury is diesel only. I'm positively livid with Mazda, the only model they supply in petrol is the bargain bucket model. Anything beyond that only comes in diesel. Now maybe it's just me, maybe I'm hopelessly out of touch with the modern car market. I do a lot of urban driving and don't do high milage or drive very far distances so a diesel would probably hate me. Yet the dealers are bending over backwards to talk me out of giving them my few shillings. Is car tax really that massive a sales point?

Try a different dealer. There are still plenty of petrol cars out there. I was going to get a 2.2 diesel Honda Civic, but ended up going for the 1.8 petrol because it was a lot cheaper. It also has more extras.

Jesus.

MuppetCheck wrote: »

I can see the point in the dealer saying they wouldn't like to sell one to you.

I'm sorry man but that just makes no sense no matter what way I look at it!

Are we living in a parallel Universe or something?

japasca

Just to put some random figures on the discussion, I checked what percentage of used Audis and BMW's on carzone have petrol engines ranging from 2008 - 2013. = 6.5% petrol

Then i checked used audis and bmw's up to the year 2007, and the amount of petrol engined cars for sale is = 56.6% petrol

Just shows how the consumer dramatically responded to the co2 tax change.

CiniO

Bogger77 wrote: »

it's not just in Ireland, the EU CO2 taxes are affecting everywhere.

No they are not.
Ireland vehicle taxation (where only criteria VRT and motortax are based are CO2 emissions) seem to force dealers and buyers to go for diesels only.

Hardly any other country in EU doing same thing.

ofcork

I was hoping to buy a 2012 avensis next year and checked the stats,57 petrols sold last year compared to over 2800 diesels.

Dr. Kenneth Noisewater

ofcork wrote: »

I was hoping to buy a 2012 avensis next year and checked the stats,57 petrols sold last year compared to over 2800 diesels.

:eek: Mother of the little baby Jaysus

Andrew_Doran

Only four petrol 5 series sold this year, 1 looks to be an M5 or very big engined at least.

Bogger77

CiniO wrote: »

No they are not.
Ireland vehicle taxation (where only criteria VRT and motortax are based are CO2 emissions) seem to force dealers and buyers to go for diesels only.

Hardly any other country in EU doing same thing.

really

Check NI, for example

on a usedcarsni.com website, 107 Ford Focus's for sale, 17 petrol, rest diesels!

Joe 90

ABajaninCork wrote: »

I'm not a diesel fan either. I don't do enough miles to justify one. The stock and spec of petrol models here is awful. I would never buy another petrol model here again, and will be going to the UK for my next car.

What is it about the Irish obsession with diesel?

It's been around for a long time. I tried to buy the Opel version oh the Astra GTE, can't remember exactly which model it was called, maybe a Kadette GTE or some such, when they really tried hard to sell me the diesel version, and that's about 30 years ago.

Casati

japasca wrote: »

Just to put some random figures on the discussion, I checked what percentage of used Audis and BMW's on carzone have petrol engines ranging from 2008 - 2013. = 6.5% petrol

Then i checked used audis and bmw's up to the year 2007, and the amount of petrol engined cars for sale is = 56.6% petrol

Just shows how the consumer dramatically responded to the co2 tax change.

Agreed- but its taking a while for customers to realise that they can now buy some great low co2 petrol cars- VAG 1.2/ 1.4 TSI's, Ford's 1.0 125 bhp Focus (not available here mind), BMW 328I, A4 2.O TFSI etc all offer co2 similar to their diesel competitors and often with better performance and lower prices. This is not helped by the distributors not bringing in some of these great petrol options

japasca

Casati wrote: »

Agreed- but its taking a while for customers to realise that they can now buy some great low co2 petrol cars- VAG 1.2/ 1.4 TSI's, Ford's 1.0 125 bhp Focus (not available here mind), BMW 328I, A4 2.O TFSI etc all offer co2 similar to their diesel competitors and often with better performance and lower prices. This is not helped by the distributors not bringing in some of these great petrol options

Yes very true. Although I am still not comfortable with buying a small 4 cylinder engine that is supercharged and turbocharged to the limit. I had a friend cripple himself financially with Golf GT repairs....

This is the closest i've been tempted at buying nearly new in this country http://www.carzone.ie/search/Audi/A3/1.8-TFSI/36313724331753250/advert?channel=CARS
Then i realised its the old Gold MK4 Gti engine from circa 2000 with a few more horses.
I'm now about to buy my third 2007 reg car on Monday. After this one it will be the UK all the way.

PauloMN

Spec is the real issue here, if you are looking for anything other than basic spec in either petrol or diesel, but especially petrol, you are very limited. Was looking at '11 Astras for my wife, called to an Opel dealer here and what I was offered as potential cars was grim tbh, overpriced and under-specced. A quick trip up north and the selection becomes much better, and while the savings are not as much as a few years ago, I still got a low miles car kitted out for less than the asthmatic 1.4 poverty spec model I saw here.

The problem is that spec is often tied in with certain engine options. For example, I was specifically looking for SE trim with the 123bhp diesel. That spec seems to be essentially non-existent down here in the used models I saw, so not only can the spec not be got, the lower spec cars come with the 110 diesel also (or the crappy 1.3 diesels).

witless_steve

Is it tricky to import a car?
Wouldn't have thought of it at this level but might look into it.