Wandering Sheep

mcgee73

Posting in here instead of the sheep forum because I thought it would be busier, hoping for some balanced advice.

We live next to a large farm, surrounded by fields usually occupied by a dairy herd but since they've gone in for the winter the fields adjacent to us are home to about 20/30 sheep which have been wandering in an out of our garden. They've been doing what sheep do, ****eing all over the place, eating shrubs, grass, etc and we've been going out and chasing them away and letting the farmer know that they were on the loose again.

The same thing happened last year and after a few weeks the farmer moved them further away from us and all was good.

This year though the sheep seem to be more agressive and have been coming up to the house and headbutting the glass doors, which luckily hasn't done any damage so far but we have young children and it has really scared them and we now don't feel safe letting the kids outside.
We have let the farmers know this has been happening, repeatedly, but the sheep haven't been moved and were in the garden this morning again.

We are now really fed up and are wondering what we should do next? We have lived here for a good few years and don't intend on moving. We don't want to start a war but they obviously don't care.

Thanks for reading this far, any advice would be appreciated.

cali_eire

Sorry for your trouble - I live next to a dairy farm and occasionally a cow escaped into the garden. I didnt mind because nothing great is planted nor are their any kids around. The farmer, without me complaining or asking put up additional fencing. I think given the fact you have an established garden and kids that are being disrupted you are well within your rights to say to the farmer that his fencing needs to be improved to keep the sheep off your property. Best of luck

AnFeirmeoir

fence your garden. I know he should do it but if you do it right you'll have no more trouble

vinne

mcgee73 wrote: »

Posting in here instead of the sheep forum because I thought it would be busier, hoping for some balanced advice.

We live next to a large farm, surrounded by fields usually occupied by a dairy herd but since they've gone in for the winter the fields adjacent to us are home to about 20/30 sheep which have been wandering in an out of our garden. They've been doing what sheep do, ****eing all over the place, eating shrubs, grass, etc and we've been going out and chasing them away and letting the farmer know that they were on the loose again.

The same thing happened last year and after a few weeks the farmer moved them further away from us and all was good.

This year though the sheep seem to be more agressive and have been coming up to the house and headbutting the glass doors, which luckily hasn't done any damage so far but we have young children and it has really scared them and we now don't feel safe letting the kids outside.
We have let the farmers know this has been happening, repeatedly, but the sheep haven't been moved and were in the garden this morning again.

We are now really fed up and are wondering what we should do next? We have lived here for a good few years and don't intend on moving. We don't want to start a war but they obviously don't care.

Thanks for reading this far, any advice would be appreciated.

Tell him you'll be sending him a bill for the damage they have done to your garden, I am sure he'll get the message .

mcgee73

Cali eire, thanks for your reply, we asked him do do that last year and again recently, but nothing has been done.
Even if they don't want to go to the trouble of securing the nearby fields they have enough land to move them away but they are not doing that either.

mcgee73

AnFeirmeoir wrote: »

fence your garden. I know he should do it but if you do it right you'll have no more trouble

Our garden is fenced but we do have an open driveway, we are financially not in a position to start building walls and gates, unfortunately. It just seems unfair that he can leave his sheep to roam pretty much freely and we have to suck it up.

Conmaicne Mara

The sheep are butting the doors because they see their reflection in the glass. It's not a cause for worry with the kids regarding aggressiveness.

Try talking to the farmers significant other, if he has one.

mcgee73

vinne wrote: »

Tell him you'll be sending him a bill for the damage they have done to your garden, I am sure he'll get the message .

From what we know from other neighbours, this would go ignored.

Conmaicne Mara wrote: »

The sheep are butting the doors because they see their reflection in the glass. It's not a cause for worry with the kids regarding aggressiveness.

Try talking to the farmers significant other, if he has one.

The significant other is not an option but it's good to know that about their reflection, it still frightens the ****e out of us though!

cali_eire

mcgee73 wrote: »

From what we know from other neighbours, this would go ignored.



The significant other is not an option but it's good to know that about their reflection, it still frightens the ****e out of us though!

It sounds like your next option might be a solicitor's letter then. Not without cost but it sounds like he needs a real push.

AnFeirmeoir

Mcgee

You are of course 100% correct.
If his sheep are jumping onto the road and around into your house i don't think you can do much about that.
You need to meet him next time he comes to collect them and make sure he knows you not an understanding sound neighbour.!

There are loads of houses like yours around the countryside, half finished from the boom. To be honest, there is no way you are going to get through a winter without a cow or a sheep in the garden if you havent got a wall. If you had the gates, you could but up a strand of sheepwire across the front for next to nothing.

mcgee73

cali_eire wrote: »

It sounds like your next option might be a solicitor's letter then. Not without cost but it sounds like he needs a real push.

Is that our only option though? They are known to be a difficult family and we have heard from neighbours that solicitors letters don't phase them and they are happy to have a day out in court.

My husband want's to go to the gardai but I don't know that this would solve anything. Advice from friends and family usually involves jokes about mutton stew or them coming out with a trailer to relocate them!

cali_eire

mcgee73 wrote: »

Is that our only option though? They are known to be a difficult family and we have heard from neighbours that solicitors letters don't phase them and they are happy to have a day out in court.

My husband want's to go to the gardai but I don't know that this would solve anything. Advice from friends and family usually involves jokes about mutton stew or them coming out with a trailer to relocate them!

If they wont act on their own, which according to you after multiple requests they won't and if you dont want to put up a gate yourself (understandably), I dont see any other avenue but a legal one. I am wondering if your home insurer would have any thoughts or advice also since the sheep on the property could cause some liability for them.

mcgee73

AnFeirmeoir wrote: »

Mcgee

You are of course 100% correct.
If his sheep are jumping onto the road and around into your house i don't think you can do much about that.
You need to meet him next time he comes to collect them and make sure he knows you not an understanding sound neighbour.!

There are loads of houses like yours around the countryside, half finished from the boom. To be honest, there is no way you are going to get through a winter without a cow or a sheep in the garden if you havent got a wall. If you had the gates, you could but up a strand of sheepwire across the front for next to nothing.

You're right, I'd say 50% of the houses in the area are like ours but we're not bothered by the odd animal or two wandering in.
It's the fact that the sheep are now at a real risk of smashing the glass in our doors and I had a very upset and scared 4 year old yesterday.

Unfortunatley though, we are in negative equity, only one of us is now working and we're not in a position to move. If only we knew then, what we know now, from many aspects!

runawaybishop

Inform the owner that unless he secures his livestock you will call the council the next time they break into your property and have them removed. He can pay the release fee to the council then.

vinne

mcgee73 wrote: »

Is that our only option though? They are known to be a difficult family and we have heard from neighbours that solicitors letters don't phase them and they are happy to have a day out in court.

My husband want's to go to the gardai but I don't know that this would solve anything. Advice from friends and family usually involves jokes about mutton stew or them coming out with a trailer to relocate them!

Send him a postcard with a detailed account of what your family are going through, when he'll know the postman knows about it he might sort it.

The Glass Key

Sorry but I have no sympathy for the OP, if you live in the country you fence your property including having a road side fence and gate then the problem doesn't arise.

Yes the farmer should get a bill for any damage done but after that the gate and fence should go up.

If the OP can afford a solicitors letter he can afford a gate, the solicitors letter might be a temporary solution but a gate is a permanent solution. I'd argue with small children why isn't there a gate already? No walls - role of sheep wire and some posts.

Its not the farmers job to fence your road side and your lucky no one moves cattle down the road from pasture to pasture or you'd have them in your garden as well.

runawaybishop

The Glass Key wrote: »

Sorry but I have no sympathy for the OP, if you live in the country you fence your property including having a road side fence and gate then the problem doesn't arise.

Yes the farmer should get a bill for any damage done but after that the gate and fence should go up.

If the OP can afford a solicitors letter he can afford a gate, the solicitors letter might be a temporary solution but a gate is a permanent solution. I'd argue with small children why isn't there a gate already? No walls - role of sheep wire and some posts.

Its not the farmers job to fence your road side and your lucky no one moves cattle down the road from pasture to pasture or you'd have them in your garden as well.

It is the farmers job to securely fence his own livestock and as such he is entirely responsible for any damages arising out of them escaping.

AnFeirmeoir

yes its his fault but the solution is there. €200 would fence it and theyre would be no need for the stress of argueing with an ignorant dick.

All other options would cost more that that. Agree about the kids too. I understand people are under pressure but they spend €200 on other things when needed. This fence is needed.

vinne

The Glass Key wrote: »

Sorry but I have no sympathy for the OP, if you live in the country you fence your property including having a road side fence and gate then the problem doesn't arise.

Yes the farmer should get a bill for any damage done but after that the gate and fence should go up.

If the OP can afford a solicitors letter he can afford a gate, the solicitors letter might be a temporary solution but a gate is a permanent solution. I'd argue with small children why isn't there a gate already? No walls - role of sheep wire and some posts.

Its not the farmers job to fence your road side and your lucky no one moves cattle down the road from pasture to pasture or you'd have them in your garden as well.

I'm farming myself, if I though my cows cattle or sheep were breaking out and going in around peoples houses I wouldn't sleep the night till the problem was solved. I know they should have a gate sheep wire and walls but not every one can afford these things. As a farmer your livestock are your responsibility if you can't look after them you shouldn't have them.

runawaybishop

AnFeirmeoir wrote: »

yes its his fault but the solution is there. €200 would fence it and theyre would be no need for the stress of argueing with an ignorant dick.

All other options would cost more that that. Agree about the kids too. I understand people are under pressure but they spend €200 on other things when needed. This fence is needed.

The free solution is to call the council and have the stray animals removed.

AnFeirmeoir

runawaybishop wrote: »

The free solution is to call the council and have the stray animals removed.

They'd be back. Sheep won't stop once they know they'res better grass somewhere. Fence either on the farmers land (won't happen i'd say) or at the front of the house is the only solution

Vandy West

If the problem was being caused by animals being moved along the road then it would be the OP's problem, but sounds like the farmer hasn't bothered to fence the land for sheep and is just being an ass.

Have sheep myself and had a similar problem last year with someone who had sheep but no sheep fencing.

Best solution is to spread the problem around if you can, gather up as many as you can and drop one here, another there etc.. If you know a friendly butcher or someone handy with a knife, one could even land in your freezer.

arctictree

Farm gate, length of sheep wire, couple of posts - about €250 euro in total. Problem solved. And to be fair, if you have a small child, the above needs to be done anyway.

Vandy West

arctictree wrote: »

Farm gate, length of sheep wire, couple of posts - about €250 euro in total. Problem solved. And to be fair, if you have a small child, the above needs to be done anyway.

Yes but then he has the hardship of opening and closing gate every time he wants to leave his house.

runawaybishop

AnFeirmeoir wrote: »

They'd be back. Sheep won't stop once they know they'res better grass somewhere. Fence either on the farmers land (won't happen i'd say) or at the front of the house is the only solution

They won't be back if they don't get released to the owner because he isn't looking after them properly.

The Glass Key

Vandy West wrote: »

Yes but then he has the hardship of opening and closing gate every time he wants to leave his house.

I was waiting for that gem. OMG The hardship of living in the country :rolleyes:

The Glass Key

runawaybishop wrote: »

They won't be back if they don't get released to the owner because he isn't looking after them properly.

I think your talking rubbish, I have phoned are council about the issue and they didn't want to know, legally they should do what you say but I don't think any will anymore.

runawaybishop

The Glass Key wrote: »

I think your talking rubbish, I have phoned are council about the issue and they didn't want to know, legally they should do what you say but I don't think any will anymore.

This is incorrect. The council will remove stray animals, especially if they have open access to a public road.

The Glass Key

runawaybishop wrote: »

This is incorrect. The council will remove stray animals, especially if they have open access to a public road.

They send the dog warden out do they?

Vandy West

The Glass Key wrote: »

I was waiting for that gem. OMG The hardship of living in the country :rolleyes:

My point is why should the OP have to do ANY additional "work" because the farmer is being an ass.

because you "live in the country" doesn't mean you should let ignorant assholes run all over you.

runawaybishop

The Glass Key wrote: »

They send the dog warden out do they?

Maybe, how the hell would I know who they send out?

The Glass Key

The Glass Key wrote: »

They send the dog warden out do they?

You were stating as fact that that council will send someone out so I assumed you knew the actual process involved. My contention is that the council will do nothing and no longer have any provision to do as you suggest even though I believe they are legally bound to so.

mcgee73

Apologies for abandoning the thread, the sheep invaded again and I have been trying to get hold of the farmer.
Will read all the replies and update soon.

runawaybishop

The Glass Key wrote: »

You were stating as fact that that council will send someone out so I assumed you knew the actual process involved. My contention is that the council will do nothing and no longer have any provision to do as you suggest even though I believe they are legally bound to so.

I don't know who they send out, but they will send someone out if animals are straying and not being adequately cared for. If the animals get onto the road, which is likely given there is no gate on the property, it becomes a matter for the gardai as it is an offence then.

moy83

runawaybishop wrote: »

This is incorrect. The council will remove stray animals, especially if they have open access to a public road.

You would be waiting a long time for the council to take stray animals around here . We had a problem with horses last year and they wouldnt touch them until they made their way onto the main road . And then the cops came and tried to turn them back into our place because it was the only safe place for them ! Alls the council did was contact the owners who they knew and asked them to take them out .

The Glass Key

Vandy West wrote: »

My point is why should the OP have to do ANY additional "work" because the farmer is being an ass.

because you "live in the country" doesn't mean you should let ignorant assholes run all over you.

But your never going to get rid of ignorant assholes but you can protect yourself from a lot of the effects of their actions.

runawaybishop

moy83 wrote: »

You would be waiting a long time for the council to take stray animals around here . We had a problem with horses last year and they wouldnt touch them until they made their way onto the main road . And then the cops came and tried to turn them back into our place because it was the only safe place for them ! Alls the council did was contact the owners who they knew and asked them to take them out .

That looks like a good example of council/gardai not doing their job properly alright. Some councils are better than others, they still need to do their jobs though.

The Glass Key

moy83 wrote: »

You would be waiting a long time for the council to take stray animals around here . We had a problem with horses last year and they wouldnt touch them until they made their way onto the main road . And then the cops came and tried to turn them back into our place because it was the only safe place for them ! Alls the council did was contact the owners who they knew and asked them to take them out .

We've looked after stray horses for a week once before finding the owners who thought they were stolen, council just told us they were are problem.

I believe if I'd turned them back out onto the road (they'd wandered down our 1/2 mile long boreen) then I would have been held responsible for any accident.

Tramps Like Us

Get a dog

runawaybishop

The Glass Key wrote: »

We've looked after stray horses for a week once before finding the owners who thought they were stolen, council just told us they were are problem.

I believe if I'd turned them back out onto the road (they'd wandered down our 1/2 mile long boreen) then I would have been held responsible for any accident.

Sounds like you have had a pretty bad experience with your council. You are right though, you'd be liable if you turned them back out.

moy83

The Glass Key wrote: »

We've looked after stray horses for a week once before finding the owners who thought they were stolen, council just told us they were are problem.

I believe if I'd turned them back out onto the road (they'd wandered down our 1/2 mile long boreen) then I would have been held responsible for any accident.

Im not sure if you would or wouldnt be responsible (legaly not morally) for turning them onto the road . But in that situation how could anyone prove you turned them anywhere ? They are wandering horses after all .....

runawaybishop

moy83 wrote: »

Im not sure if you would or wouldnt be responsible (legaly not morally) for turning them onto the road . But in that situation how could anyone prove you turned them anywhere ? They are wandering horses after all .....

You be legally and morally responsible. I don't know about you but I'd prefer to not contribute to a road accident.

The Glass Key

moy83 wrote: »

Im not sure if you would or wouldnt be responsible (legaly not morally) for turning them onto the road . But in that situation how could anyone prove you turned them anywhere ? They are wandering horses after all .....

In the country people know It was a farmer that lived some miles away that pointed out the horses had come down our boreen. Two horses in an area where no one owned a horse was spotted instantly.

moy83

runawaybishop wrote: »

You be legally and morally responsible. I don't know about you but I'd prefer to not contribute to a road accident.

I wouldnt like it either. I wouldnt turn anything out on the road myself

Conmaicne Mara

Tramps Like Us wrote: »

Get a dog

If anything is to be got a gate would be better, there are already too many unnecessary dogs in the country.

mcgee73

Firstly, thanks to all who have read and replied to this thread.

I did realise that by posting on this particular forum that some people would feel that the responsibiliy lay at our door, but I still feel that the responsibility lies with the farmer to make sure his fields are stock proof.
It is not just a problem for us, they are wandering in and out of other properties and on to public roads also.
In an ideal world, we would love to be able to completely gate off the front of our property but at the moment, for various reasons, it's not a possibility.

Anyhow, the sheep retuned a while ago and spent a good half an hour butting our doors and windows. The farmer eventually came and moved the sheep a few fields down but these fields are also blantantly unsecure, so we are expecting them to come wandering back again soon and because of this my husband rang the gardai, who came out and are now in the process of speaking with the farmer.

We'll just have to wait and see...

freedominacup

It's pretty straightforward. If the sheep are coming in your front gate from the road having gotten out of the farmers property then it's his baby. If they are coming in through the boundary between hyour land and his then it is almost certainy your problem. There is a fairly standard clause in most deeds of transfer for one off sites that the site owner is responsible in perpetuity for erecting and maintaining a stockproof barrier around their site. If the sheep are coming in through the boundary between your land and the farmers then by definition the boundary is not stockproof and it is up to you to sort it.

The Glass Key

freedominacup wrote: »

It's pretty straightforward. If the sheep are coming in your front gate from the road having gotten out of the farmers property then it's his baby. If they are coming in through the boundary between hyour land and his then it is almost certainy your problem. There is a fairly standard clause in most deeds of transfer for one off sites that the site owner is responsible in perpetuity for erecting and maintaining a stockproof barrier around their site. If the sheep are coming in through the boundary between your land and the farmers then by definition the boundary is not stockproof and it is up to you to sort it.

Not that straight forward as it seems the OP needs both a gate and a fence along the site where it joins the road.

So yes the OP has a stock proof fence on the field side of the property but not the road side.

arctictree

freedominacup wrote: »

It's pretty straightforward. If the sheep are coming in your front gate from the road having gotten out of the farmers property then it's his baby. If they are coming in through the boundary between hyour land and his then it is almost certainy your problem. There is a fairly standard clause in most deeds of transfer for one off sites that the site owner is responsible in perpetuity for erecting and maintaining a stockproof barrier around their site. If the sheep are coming in through the boundary between your land and the farmers then by definition the boundary is not stockproof and it is up to you to sort it.

What about when stock are being driven up the road? Neighbours around here are forever leaving their gates open (if they have them). Older houses have cattle gates but that seems to have gone out of fashion. Who is responsable if the cattle take a left turn into the lawn? We cant have someone standing at every gate....

runawaybishop

freedominacup wrote: »

It's pretty straightforward. If the sheep are coming in your front gate from the road having gotten out of the farmers property then it's his baby. If they are coming in through the boundary between hyour land and his then it is almost certainy your problem. There is a fairly standard clause in most deeds of transfer for one off sites that the site owner is responsible in perpetuity for erecting and maintaining a stockproof barrier around their site. If the sheep are coming in through the boundary between your land and the farmers then by definition the boundary is not stockproof and it is up to you to sort it.

The owner is liable for any damage his stock do, it is also his responsibility to keep his own field stock proof also. That clause completely depends on the deeds, iot may not be in it. The animal owner needs to take responsibility anyway, he's the one that will be out of pocket when something happens.

edit: also, re the stockproof clause on the deed: that should refer to the holdings stock, not a 3rd parties i.e the OP needs to ensure his animals cant get out.

freedominacup

arctictree wrote: »

What about when stock are being driven up the road? Neighbours around here are forever leaving their gates open (if they have them). Older houses have cattle gates but that seems to have gone out of fashion. Who is responsable if the cattle take a left turn into the lawn? We cant have someone standing at every gate....

I'm pretty sure you are, though I think the owner of a house has some responsibility to have some means of closing access to their property but I wouldn't bet on it. If they turn left you'll get the bill, I know we have when it happened to us. It's usually covered by your farm multi-peril policy.