All Blacks & Their 16th Man - The Ref

Colonialboy

Do the officials and officialdom favour the All Blacks ?

Ive always thought that and when reading Saturdays papers I was even more convinced.
Sats papers were full of close encounters and historic matches that not only Irl but other teams have been involved in with the All Blacks and each match had a few key incidents in them that always seemed to go the way of the All Blacks. Everything from the incidents during the match to how the Haka is so protected. ... going back over the years theres a litany of them
Bods Spear tackle
France not getting any penalty under the posts in the closing mins of WC final for persistance infringements
Richie McCall slowing down play and not getting penalised.
Wales being told to break away from NZ during their Haka in WC last year, note it wasnt the ABs that were pushed back
Even Irls U21(?) in their WC when they faced down the ABs haka, again its the oppossing team that the officials grabbed and pushed away .
Welsh sending off aginst NZ in the WC
Even the draw for the WC , tailor made for NZ and made it hard for their opponents in their group
The match 2 weeks ago against Eng , Blatant Professional foul by the ABs against Eng 2 weeks ago taking out a runner following a kick - no sin bin and their first try the pass looked forward
Owens giving NZ a penalty last time Irl came close to getting a draw
NZ gained more yards yesterday by advancing penalties beyond where they occurred than their front 5 gained.
Most matchs NZ seem to get away with a few forward passes.
it goes on and on
Commentators always talk of how they are good at gettign away with infringements, the odd forward pass, slowing down play, late hits.....its obvious they arent good at it, cos people watching the game can see these, whats happening is the officials are refusing to implement the law.

As for Sundays match well .... too gutted to talk about it.
Fantatsic performance by Irl, renewed my respect for everyone invovled in the team.
Congratulations to NZ also.

btw I had this post formulated on Saturday ! This isnt sour grapes I never got to post it cos the kids were running around , but I intended opening this debate even before Sundays epic encounter.

sydthebeat

This only reads as sour grapes.

If anything we got the major rub of the green yesterday.

Timothy Bryce

I think the fact that there's very little chat about Owens, suggests that he was fair in his officiating yesterday.

He's one of the best, if not the best referee in the game at the moment. McCall McCaw was on the edge as usual and Owens pinged him a few times.

But I agree with your general point I think you're trying to make - too often stupid decisions from the officials are the difference in many key game. Romaine Poite case in point.

.ak

Yeah Owens had a great game yesterday, although I was a bit annoyed that kept warning the ABs for going off their feet but never pinged them for it, then in the 2nd half when SOB did it a few times he started to ride him a bit with the whistle.

tbm

This is always said about winning teams though. Owens is not perfect, but he's the best ref on the planet by a country mile and I've no complaints about yesterday. Was there a reset scrum in the whole game?

razorblunt

It was incredibly stupid of Ireland to give away a penalty on their own ball yesterday with 31 seconds on the clock, I don't blame Owens for that. I also felt Toner's penalty for blocking a charger was incredibly naive and came at a crucial time when Ireland cleared their lines well, he also decided to block the run of a prop, WTF? if it was a quick prop I'd say something, he was never going to charge down Sexton anyway.

One area of officiating again that I felt dissapointed was NZ at the breakdown, repeated tackling, standing up offside, slowing the attacking support before walking back through the gate. There was also one occassion where heaslip had a great steal on the floor and went to hand it back, McCaw was behind him on his back and put his hand up to block it, clear as day, slowed Ireland getting it slightly and not a peep from Owens.

.ak

razorblunt wrote: »

It was incredibly stupid of Ireland to give away a penalty on their own ball yesterday with 31 seconds on the clock, I don't blame Owens for that. I also felt Toner's penalty for blocking a charger was incredibly naive and came at a crucial time when Ireland cleared their lines well, he also decided to block the run of a prop, WTF? if it was a quick prop I'd say something, he was never going to charge down Sexton anyway.

One area of officiating again that I felt dissapointed was NZ at the breakdown, repeated tackling, standing up offside, slowing the attacking support before walking back through the gate. There was also one occassion where heaslip had a great steal on the floor and went to hand it back, McCaw was behind him on his back and put his hand up to block it, clear as day, slowed Ireland getting it slightly and not a peep from Owens.

Toner slipped I think, looking at the replay.

Also we didn't willingly gave away the penalty at the end. It was a mistake - who gives away penalties willingly?

Dave_The_Sheep

While this may not be sour grapes, the timing of it surely looks like it is.

Maybe revisit this discussion on a day that isn't straight after we suffer a horrible loss in the last seconds.

Colonialboy

.ak wrote: »

Yeah Owens had a great game yesterday, although I was a bit annoyed that kept warning the ABs for going off their feet but never pinged them for it, then in the 2nd half when SOB did it a few times he started to ride him a bit with the whistle.....
.....
who gives away penalties willingly?

contradictory ... no???
And is your post not more evidence of what my OP was about, more evidence of what my feeling was BEFORE yesterdays game, the ABs are favoured.
Lots of teams give away penalties intentionally, if its a choice between a try or a penalty . Thats why we have a sinbin and a penalty try, its because teams intentionally give away penalties to prevent other teams socring tries.

btw this thread isnt about yesterdays game , its a general discussion of officials bias to the ABs.

.ak

Nah, still stick by it - Owens was great, but no ref is perfect, you'll always find faults, especially when you're sitting on one side of the fence. Think we were generally more on his good side. He didn't ping us once in the first half. That's amazing. Reminds me of the France game in 2009 when we were just on song.

BoardsMember

.ak wrote: »

Yeah Owens had a great game yesterday, although I was a bit annoyed that kept warning the ABs for going off their feet but never pinged them for it, then in the 2nd half when SOB did it a few times he started to ride him a bit with the whistle.

Unfortunate choice of words considering he's the only ref in the village.

Speaking of which, has anyone noticed that the devilishly handsome Rob Kearney chats away to him during the game, before the start etc. He also convinced him to go to the TMO for the aerial challenge in the second half, when Owens had decided not to.

former legend

What a horrible, nasty thread.

Owens is, IMO, the best ref in the world. He had a brilliant game yesterday.

Colonialboy wrote:

btw I had this post formulated on Saturday !

Yeah, that about sums it up. Ridiculous.

BoardsMember

former legend wrote: »

What a horrible, nasty thread.

Owens is, IMO, the best ref in the world. He had a brilliant game yesterday.



Yeah, that about sums it up. Ridiculous.

Completely agree with you. I said it on another thread, I dont remember there being a better referee than him. He used the TMO very well yesterday, very little happened that he did not call right, and when he felt he called it wrong he was big enough to go to the TMO. Fantastic referee.

Tox56

Nolanator Rugby wrote: »

Has their ever been a game where the All Blacks haven't had the ref in their pocket?

Has there ever been a game in history where people haven't claimed the ABs had the ref in their pocket? Regardless of the refs performance? It thought Owens was excellent yet again

bilston

Owens had a great game and certainly to say he favoured NZ is wrong.

I will say this, he penalised McGrath for going off his feet and then proceeded to allow NZ to do the very same thing at a couple of rucks in the build up to Crotty's try.

But look he wasn't favouring NZ, in fact if anything I got the sense he was as gutted as anyone when NZ scored as he seemed to be doing everything to not award the try!

That last sentence probably shouldn't be regarded as a compliment to Nige!

Anyway the two best test matches this season

SA v NZ
Ire v NZ

What's the common denominator?

Edit - apart from NZ!

thomond2006

Owens let a lot of offsides slide from both sides yesterday and tbh it made it a better match. No coincidence that he also officiated the match of the year between South Africa and New Zealand. Some might think he should be more harsh but there's nothing worse than a whistle happy ref as they can ruin the flow of match.

thebaz

former legend wrote: »

What a horrible, nasty thread.

Owens is, IMO, the best ref in the world. He had a brilliant game yesterday.



Yeah, that about sums it up. Ridiculous.

Owens is a good ref , but refs are human - all the 50/50 decisions second half went all blacks way , including the mcgrath (petty) infringement- just a fact - same as underdogs rarely get rub of green against Man Utd at Old Trafford , or Blackrock in schools cup rugby - as long as I hav been playing and watching sport that is the reality - the All Blacks always get the decisions , much in the same way Tonga, Fiji, and Samoa don't , cause in reality they have little power in the boardrooms.
Dont get me wrong New zealand are an amazing team , and 99.99% of teams would have knocked on or not made it across the whitewash at the end - in fact they did it 2 days in a row , so not only do they never give up , but they dont panic which is so hard in competitive sport , as anyone that has played will know.

Colonialboy

thomond2006 wrote: »

Owens let a lot of offsides slide from both sides yesterday and tbh it made it a better match. No coincidence that he also officiated the match of the year between South Africa and New Zealand. Some might think he should be more harsh but there's nothing worse than a whistle happy ref as they can ruin the flow of match.

bilston wrote: »

Owens had a great game and certainly to say he favoured NZ is wrong.
I will say this, he penalised McGrath for going off his feet and then proceeded to allow NZ to do the very same thing at a couple of rucks in the build up to Crotty's try.

But look he wasn't favouring NZ,

Anyway the two best test matches this season
SA v NZIre v NZ
What's the common denominator?
Edit - apart from NZ!

Wasnt that the match where NZ were given a lineout deep in SA territory that led to a try, after the SA defender was adjudged to have had a foot in touch when he dragged a kick to touch from NE back into play. Even though he was well inside the line and replays confirmed it.. no TMO.
Same thing happend 2 weeks ago NZ v Eng , the Eng defender jumped into the air, off his feet to pull a long ball kick into touch back into play and was adjudged to have had a foot in touch. NZ got the lineout and wnet on to get a score

They just seem to always get the favourable decision .

Seems odd that most people who say Owens had a goodgame also remarks that in the run up to the try he penalised Irl for an offence but left NZ get away with the same offence a number of times.
Again this thread isnt about yesterdays match,in my OP i didnt in fact mention anything specific about yesterdays match.

Gambas

Tox56 wrote: »

Has there ever been a game in history where people haven't claimed the ABs had the ref in their pocket?

Yeah, all the one's when the AB's lost.

Madworld

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-20464371

The above article is about added time more-so than bias. It illustrates though that the best teams always get away with decisions against smaller teams.
That's not to say that Owens had a bad game yesterday. IMO he was excellent.

astonaidan

Soooo I guess Im the only one who likes Steve Walsh

razorblunt

.ak wrote: »

Toner slipped I think, looking at the replay.

Also we didn't willingly gave away the penalty at the end. It was a mistake - who gives away penalties willingly?

Is that willingly giving away the penalty directed at me? Don't think I suggested that, unless I've misconstrued something or you misinterpreted!!

And FWIW to answer your question Donnacha O'Callaghan!

.ak

razorblunt wrote: »

Is that willingly giving away the penalty directed at me? Don't think I suggested that, unless I've misconstrued something or you misinterpreted!!

And FWIW to answer your question Donnacha O'Callaghan!

No it wasn't, someone else asked why we conceded a penalty earlier in the thread.

cityman 18

astonaidan wrote: »

Soooo I guess Im the only one who likes Steve Walsh

Apart from Steve Walsh himself of course!

Thought Owen had a good game on Sunday, it has to be said though the McGrath penalty was very harsh in the context of the game. Was happening all day and he chose then to ping someone for it.

Klunk_NZ

AK is spot on in regards to Owens in the weekend and the sour grapes....
The AB's do not have the refs in their pockets, did anyone see Jourbert + England vs AB's last week?

What the All Blacks do have is one of the greatest teams in history, that is ...perhaps why they win alot?

phog

razorblunt wrote: »

Is that willingly giving away the penalty directed at me? Don't think I suggested that, unless I've misconstrued something or you misinterpreted!!

And FWIW to answer your question Donnacha O'Callaghan!

:eek:

He must be some player that so many coaches pick him for their teams knowing he willingly gives away penalties

toomevara

astonaidan wrote: »

Soooo I guess Im the only one who likes Steve Walsh

You're alright, No one could love Steve Walsh more than Steve Walsh...#rockstarreferee.

mav79

bilston wrote: »

But look he wasn't favouring NZ, in fact if anything I got the sense he was as gutted as anyone when NZ scored as he seemed to be doing everything to not award the try!


Edit - apart from NZ!

When watching the match this popped into my head when he was asking the TMO to check on the last minute try.

justsomebloke

Steve Walsh's reaction to the introduction of ref cam

Steve wrote:

It's about bloody time they introduced it!!!

Steve Walsh's reaction to the introduction of ref cam after finding out it would be pointed at the players and wasn't for showing close up's of him on the big screen

Steve wrote:

What's the point in this ****!!!!!

razorblunt

phog wrote: »

:eek:

He must be some player that so many coaches pick him for their teams knowing he willingly gives away penalties

It wasn't a serious answer buddy, but come on the guy is a penalty machine.;)