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Stolen bicycles letter in Irish Times

  • 25-11-2013 08:11AM
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,824 ✭✭✭


    Lead letter in The Irish Times today is about the bicycle theft epidemic:

    http://www.irishtimes.com/debate/letters/stolen-bicycles-1.1604447

    Maybe it's time for some of the people who have posted here about their bicycles being stolen from locked yards, locked sheds, guarded apartment basements with cameras, the street, the garden, bike corrals under CCTV cameras, etc to join the public debate and send a few letters to the Times?


«1

Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,296 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    Nothing to suggest the bikes in question were taken from the house (other than the reference to house insurance).


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 695 ✭✭✭talkabout


    I believe the issue of bike thief needs to be taken seriously but I’ve no problem in the Garda prosecuting people who break red lights be they on a bike or motorised vehicle. Don't see why they need to throw that into the mix.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,427 ✭✭✭07Lapierre


    talkabout wrote: »
    I believe the issue of bike thief needs to be taken seriously but I’ve no problem in the Garda prosecuting people who break red lights be they on a bike or motorised vehicle. Don't see why they need to throw that into the mix.

    The other side of the argument: "If cyclists didn't break red lights, Gardai would be free to go after real criminals"


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,489 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    Whataboutery.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,712 ✭✭✭✭Sad Professor


    Can you be fined/prosecuted for going over the white line at a red light? I do this all the time to make myself visible and get a head start. Even when there's a bike box because cars don't obey them.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,489 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    Can you be fined/prosecuted for going over the white line at a red light?
    Yes.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,824 ✭✭✭Qualitymark


    Jawgap wrote: »
    Nothing to suggest the bikes in question were taken from the house (other than the reference to house insurance).

    Nothing to suggest I said they were! You've put up a straw man to joust with, my friend.

    Anyone who's writing letters - the most likely letter to be used is
    • short (two paragraphs is ideal)
    • clear
    • pointed
    • relevant
    • moving.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,779 ✭✭✭Pinch Flat


    Can you be fined/prosecuted for going over the white line at a red light? I do this all the time to make myself visible and get a head start. Even when there's a bike box because cars don't obey them.

    I normally position myself well ahead, particularly if there's a bus at the top of the queue - can be particularly important where there's a bus stop or a left turn close after to the lights.

    Have done this several times with Garda cars / bikes right behind with no issue- I don't take the p!ss, but I suppose it takes just one guard on a trip.....


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,296 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    Nothing to suggest I said they were! You've put up a straw man to joust with, my friend.

    Anyone who's writing letters - the most likely letter to be used is
    • short (two paragraphs is ideal)
    • clear
    • pointed
    • relevant
    • moving.

    Not really, your original post mentioned
    locked yards, locked sheds, guarded apartment basements with cameras, the street, the garden, bike corrals under CCTV cameras, etc to join the public debate and send a few letters to the Times

    My letter to the Irish Times would read as follows....

    Sir,

    In reference to Mr Sudway's letter of 25 November, I am reminded of the old Irish proverb.....

    Lock it or lose it.

    Yours truly,

    Mr Jawgap


  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,277 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    There's no need to cross the white line.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,489 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    Pinch Flat wrote: »
    I normally position myself well ahead, particularly if there's a bus at the top of the queue - can be particularly important where there's a bus stop or a left turn close after to the lights.

    Have done this several times with Garda cars / bikes right behind with no issue- I don't take the p!ss, but I suppose it takes just one guard on a trip.....
    Everyone who breaks a law believes that the law they choose to break is unreasonable.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,824 ✭✭✭Qualitymark


    Jawgap wrote: »
    Not really, your original post mentioned



    My letter to the Irish Times would read as follows....

    Sir,

    In reference to Mr Sudway's letter of 25 November, I am reminded of the old Irish proverb.....

    Lock it or lose it.

    Yours truly,

    Mr Jawgap

    To which you might get this reply:



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,296 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    ^^^^

    what a surprise, "Mid range bike lock fails when assaulted by PPE wearing bike thieves."

    there's no mad science behind locking a bike securely. Yes, you have to spend the money on decent locks (Fahgettaboudit Mini U Lock & an Abus MicroFlex for me) and if someone really wants your bike they'll get it - but most of the time they'll just move on and take something less well secured.

    As a property crime goes, it's one of the more avoidable ones.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,129 ✭✭✭daragh_


    ...
    Anyone who's writing letters - the most likely letter to be used is
    • short (two paragraphs is ideal)
    • clear
    • pointed
    • relevant
    • moving.
    • from Buffalo

    FYP


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,604 ✭✭✭petethedrummer


    Jawgap wrote: »
    (Fahgettaboudit Mini U Lock & an Abus MicroFlex for me) and if someone really wants your bike they'll get it - but most of the time they'll just move on and take something less well secured.

    Ssshhhh. other people's crappy locks and locking technique are what is keeping my bike from being robbed.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,489 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    Ssshhhh. other people's crappy locks and locking technique are what is keeping my bike from being robbed.

    I'm not sure that stacks up. AFAIK when engine immobilisers became widely available car thefts dropped substantially, the thieves didn't up their game.

    (I could be wrong)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,068 ✭✭✭BailMeOut


    The solution is for cyclists to stop buying stolen bikes as there is obviously a market out there for them.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,431 ✭✭✭RobertFoster


    daragh_ wrote: »
    ...
    Anyone who's writing letters - the most likely letter to be used is
    • short (two paragraphs is ideal)
    • clear
    • pointed
    • relevant
    • moving.
    • from Buffalo
    FYP
    Based on Mild Musings, that's not possible!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,346 ✭✭✭No Pants


    talkabout wrote: »
    I believe the issue of bike thief needs to be taken seriously but I’ve no problem in the Garda prosecuting people who break red lights be they on a bike or motorised vehicle. Don't see why they need to throw that into the mix.
    As Lumen says, it is whataboutery. However, what I believe the writer was trying to highlight was the lack of resources available to pursue actual property theft, but there seems to be plenty of resources available to ticket cyclists and presumably other resources. He also draws attention to the fact that property is revenue neutral to the state and ticketing is not.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,510 ✭✭✭wicklowwonder


    Just came across the thread, on this note, what is the best value bike insurance to get? Also I just bought a new bike and a kryptonite s2 lock with cable, is that a decent lock? The guy in the store recommended it.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,182 ✭✭✭buffalo


    Based on Mild Musings, that's not possible!

    You're getting me confused with doozerie, the author of a thousand essays.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 168 ✭✭Stillweak


    What do you think is an appropriate punishment for somebody who breaks a red light?
    Should it be the same for every incident or should it be different depending on each situation. ie dangerous and stupid vs quiet road with nobody around?

    What do you think is an appropriate punishment for somebody who steals a bike?
    Should it be the same for every incident or should it be different depending on each situation. ie taking a bike chained to a lamp post in the middle of the night vs taking it off somebody who then chases you pleading for it back?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,296 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    Stillweak wrote: »
    What do you think is an appropriate punishment for somebody who breaks a red light?
    Should it be the same for every incident or should it be different depending on each situation. ie dangerous and stupid vs quiet road with nobody around?

    Fixed Penalty Notice (€80) and the Guard seizes the bike if you're not carrying id to prove you are who you say you are and live where you say you live.

    Dangerous (as in forcing someone to brake etc) - prosecution.

    Stillweak wrote: »
    What do you think is an appropriate punishment for somebody who steals a bike?
    Should it be the same for every incident or should it be different depending on each situation. ie taking a bike chained to a lamp post in the middle of the night vs taking it off somebody who then chases you pleading for it back?

    crucifixion4-hmedium.jpg

    Bikes are just property - whatever punishment should apply should relate to the value of it. However, entering on to private property or entering a domestic dwelling should be regarded as an aggravating factor.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,002 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    Jawgap wrote: »
    Not really, your original post mentioned

    My letter to the Irish Times would read as follows....

    Sir,

    In reference to Mr Sudway's letter of 25 November, I am reminded of the old Irish proverb.....

    Lock it or lose it.

    Yours truly,

    Mr Jawgap

    Good advice,however in reality the current situation in Dublin City Centre allows for roving delinquents armed with Lump Hammers to approach any machine in the O Connell St area and simply beat the lock off...I have seen it done on more than one occasion in very rapid order,and anybody considering an approach would do well to keep an eye on that Lump Hammer !

    This,on a Street comprehensively covered by several modes of CCTV,including Garda Specific Cameras....:(


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,779 ✭✭✭Pinch Flat


    Lumen wrote: »
    Everyone who breaks a law believes that the law they choose to break is unreasonable.

    I obey road traffic laws 100% of the time, and see the traffic laws as perfectly reasonable - utopia would be of course where everyone obeys them 100% of the time. Sometimes this is forced on me, for example when a driver kindly plonks his 4 wheels in the advance bike box.

    I see no issues in using common sense for my own safety when the needs arises - have fallen foul of a driver cutting in left in front of me or a bus pulling in after the lights.

    As I said, not an issue up to now - plenty of cyclists will track stand in the middle of a junction, or ignore a red light completely, which is not what I am advocating.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,489 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    AlekSmart wrote: »
    Good advice,however in reality the current situation in Dublin City Centre allows for roving delinquents armed with Lump Hammers to approach any machine in the O Connell St area and simply beat the lock off...I have seen it done on more than one occasion in very rapid order,and anybody considering an approach would do well to keep an eye on that Lump Hammer !
    I don't believe that a good quality U-lock is susceptible to a lump hammer attack.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,005 ✭✭✭ashleey


    Stillweak wrote: »
    What do you think is an appropriate punishment for somebody who breaks a red light?
    Should it be the same for every incident or should it be different depending on each situation. ie dangerous and stupid vs quiet road with nobody around?

    What do you think is an appropriate punishment for somebody who steals a bike?
    Should it be the same for every incident or should it be different depending on each situation. ie taking a bike chained to a lamp post in the middle of the night vs taking it off somebody who then chases you pleading for it back?

    Bike stealing punishable by hands chopped off. It's supposed to be quite effective in some places . Most of those countries aren't short of a few quid so I dread to think what the punishment for breaking red lights is


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,824 ✭✭✭Qualitymark


    Jawgap wrote: »
    what a surprise, "Mid range bike lock fails when assaulted by PPE wearing bike thieves.".

    I'll let you google for yourself; the web is crawling with videos of people cutting through the most expensive bicycle locks with ease.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,779 ✭✭✭Pinch Flat


    Stillweak wrote: »
    What do you think is an appropriate punishment for somebody who breaks a red light?
    Should it be the same for every incident or should it be different depending on each situation. ie dangerous and stupid vs quiet road with nobody around?

    Should be a fixed penalty notice, paid within a certain time or you're summonsed to court where the fine ./ hassle increases. It's far to common here - hitting people in the pockets is the only way this will get drilled home.
    Stillweak wrote: »
    What do you think is an appropriate punishment for somebody who steals a bike?
    Should it be the same for every incident or should it be different depending on each situation. ie taking a bike chained to a lamp post in the middle of the night vs taking it off somebody who then chases you pleading for it back?

    Compare it to , say stealing a €1000 laptop or camera, which his about the costs of plenty of bikes out there. What happens in these scenarios? Usually a slap on the wrist or, at worst, community service - very rarely a custodial sentence. That's okay for the odd skanger who robs a bike to put on sale on adverts etc, but what's obvious though is that bike theft in certain areas is organised and a racket - it needs to be broken. I would be happy to register my bike for a small fee, and this document is used like a car when selling this - no documentation, no sale would dry the market up over night domestically, but a lot of bikes where are stolen for export I would say as well.


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  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,277 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    You don't have to cross the white line for safety reasons, even if the advance box (if there's one there) is occupied.


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