Stolen bicycles letter in Irish Times

Qualitymark

Lead letter in The Irish Times today is about the bicycle theft epidemic:

http://www.irishtimes.com/debate/letters/stolen-bicycles-1.1604447

Maybe it's time for some of the people who have posted here about their bicycles being stolen from locked yards, locked sheds, guarded apartment basements with cameras, the street, the garden, bike corrals under CCTV cameras, etc to join the public debate and send a few letters to the Times?

Jawgap

Nothing to suggest the bikes in question were taken from the house (other than the reference to house insurance).

talkabout

I believe the issue of bike thief needs to be taken seriously but I’ve no problem in the Garda prosecuting people who break red lights be they on a bike or motorised vehicle. Don't see why they need to throw that into the mix.

07Lapierre

talkabout wrote: »

I believe the issue of bike thief needs to be taken seriously but I’ve no problem in the Garda prosecuting people who break red lights be they on a bike or motorised vehicle. Don't see why they need to throw that into the mix.

The other side of the argument: "If cyclists didn't break red lights, Gardai would be free to go after real criminals"

Lumen

Whataboutery.

Sad Professor

Can you be fined/prosecuted for going over the white line at a red light? I do this all the time to make myself visible and get a head start. Even when there's a bike box because cars don't obey them.

Lumen

Sad Professor wrote: »

Can you be fined/prosecuted for going over the white line at a red light?

Yes.

Qualitymark

Jawgap wrote: »

Nothing to suggest the bikes in question were taken from the house (other than the reference to house insurance).

Nothing to suggest I said they were! You've put up a straw man to joust with, my friend.

Anyone who's writing letters - the most likely letter to be used is

• short (two paragraphs is ideal)
• clear
• pointed
• relevant
• moving.

Pinch Flat

Sad Professor wrote: »

Can you be fined/prosecuted for going over the white line at a red light? I do this all the time to make myself visible and get a head start. Even when there's a bike box because cars don't obey them.

I normally position myself well ahead, particularly if there's a bus at the top of the queue - can be particularly important where there's a bus stop or a left turn close after to the lights.

Have done this several times with Garda cars / bikes right behind with no issue- I don't take the p!ss, but I suppose it takes just one guard on a trip.....

Jawgap

Qualitymark wrote: »

Nothing to suggest I said they were! You've put up a straw man to joust with, my friend.

Anyone who's writing letters - the most likely letter to be used is

• short (two paragraphs is ideal)
• clear
• pointed
• relevant
• moving.

Not really, your original post mentioned

locked yards, locked sheds, guarded apartment basements with cameras, the street, the garden, bike corrals under CCTV cameras, etc to join the public debate and send a few letters to the Times

My letter to the Irish Times would read as follows....

Sir,

In reference to Mr Sudway's letter of 25 November, I am reminded of the old Irish proverb.....

Lock it or lose it.

Yours truly,

Mr Jawgap

Chips Lovell

There's no need to cross the white line.

Lumen

Pinch Flat wrote: »

I normally position myself well ahead, particularly if there's a bus at the top of the queue - can be particularly important where there's a bus stop or a left turn close after to the lights.

Have done this several times with Garda cars / bikes right behind with no issue- I don't take the p!ss, but I suppose it takes just one guard on a trip.....

Everyone who breaks a law believes that the law they choose to break is unreasonable.

Qualitymark

Jawgap wrote: »

Not really, your original post mentioned



My letter to the Irish Times would read as follows....

Sir,

In reference to Mr Sudway's letter of 25 November, I am reminded of the old Irish proverb.....

Lock it or lose it.

Yours truly,

Mr Jawgap

To which you might get this reply:

Jawgap

^^^^

what a surprise, "Mid range bike lock fails when assaulted by PPE wearing bike thieves."

there's no mad science behind locking a bike securely. Yes, you have to spend the money on decent locks (Fahgettaboudit Mini U Lock & an Abus MicroFlex for me) and if someone really wants your bike they'll get it - but most of the time they'll just move on and take something less well secured.

As a property crime goes, it's one of the more avoidable ones.

daragh_

Qualitymark wrote: »

...
Anyone who's writing letters - the most likely letter to be used is

• short (two paragraphs is ideal)
• clear
• pointed
• relevant
• moving.
• from Buffalo

FYP

petethedrummer

Jawgap wrote: »

(Fahgettaboudit Mini U Lock & an Abus MicroFlex for me) and if someone really wants your bike they'll get it - but most of the time they'll just move on and take something less well secured.

Ssshhhh. other people's crappy locks and locking technique are what is keeping my bike from being robbed.

Lumen

petethedrummer wrote: »

Ssshhhh. other people's crappy locks and locking technique are what is keeping my bike from being robbed.

I'm not sure that stacks up. AFAIK when engine immobilisers became widely available car thefts dropped substantially, the thieves didn't up their game.

(I could be wrong)

BailMeOut

The solution is for cyclists to stop buying stolen bikes as there is obviously a market out there for them.

RobertFoster

daragh_ wrote: »

Qualitymark wrote: »

...
Anyone who's writing letters - the most likely letter to be used is

• short (two paragraphs is ideal)
• clear
• pointed
• relevant
• moving.
• from Buffalo

FYP

Based on Mild Musings, that's not possible!

No Pants

talkabout wrote: »

I believe the issue of bike thief needs to be taken seriously but I’ve no problem in the Garda prosecuting people who break red lights be they on a bike or motorised vehicle. Don't see why they need to throw that into the mix.

As Lumen says, it is whataboutery. However, what I believe the writer was trying to highlight was the lack of resources available to pursue actual property theft, but there seems to be plenty of resources available to ticket cyclists and presumably other resources. He also draws attention to the fact that property is revenue neutral to the state and ticketing is not.

wicklowwonder

Just came across the thread, on this note, what is the best value bike insurance to get? Also I just bought a new bike and a kryptonite s2 lock with cable, is that a decent lock? The guy in the store recommended it.

buffalo

RobertFoster wrote: »

Based on Mild Musings, that's not possible!

You're getting me confused with doozerie, the author of a thousand essays.

Stillweak

What do you think is an appropriate punishment for somebody who breaks a red light?
Should it be the same for every incident or should it be different depending on each situation. ie dangerous and stupid vs quiet road with nobody around?

What do you think is an appropriate punishment for somebody who steals a bike?
Should it be the same for every incident or should it be different depending on each situation. ie taking a bike chained to a lamp post in the middle of the night vs taking it off somebody who then chases you pleading for it back?

Jawgap

Stillweak wrote: »

What do you think is an appropriate punishment for somebody who breaks a red light?
Should it be the same for every incident or should it be different depending on each situation. ie dangerous and stupid vs quiet road with nobody around?

Fixed Penalty Notice (€80) and the Guard seizes the bike if you're not carrying id to prove you are who you say you are and live where you say you live.

Dangerous (as in forcing someone to brake etc) - prosecution.

Stillweak wrote: »

What do you think is an appropriate punishment for somebody who steals a bike?
Should it be the same for every incident or should it be different depending on each situation. ie taking a bike chained to a lamp post in the middle of the night vs taking it off somebody who then chases you pleading for it back?

Bikes are just property - whatever punishment should apply should relate to the value of it. However, entering on to private property or entering a domestic dwelling should be regarded as an aggravating factor.

AlekSmart

Jawgap wrote: »

Not really, your original post mentioned

My letter to the Irish Times would read as follows....

Sir,

In reference to Mr Sudway's letter of 25 November, I am reminded of the old Irish proverb.....

Lock it or lose it.

Yours truly,

Mr Jawgap

Good advice,however in reality the current situation in Dublin City Centre allows for roving delinquents armed with Lump Hammers to approach any machine in the O Connell St area and simply beat the lock off...I have seen it done on more than one occasion in very rapid order,and anybody considering an approach would do well to keep an eye on that Lump Hammer !

This,on a Street comprehensively covered by several modes of CCTV,including Garda Specific Cameras....:(

Pinch Flat

Lumen wrote: »

Everyone who breaks a law believes that the law they choose to break is unreasonable.

I obey road traffic laws 100% of the time, and see the traffic laws as perfectly reasonable - utopia would be of course where everyone obeys them 100% of the time. Sometimes this is forced on me, for example when a driver kindly plonks his 4 wheels in the advance bike box.

I see no issues in using common sense for my own safety when the needs arises - have fallen foul of a driver cutting in left in front of me or a bus pulling in after the lights.

As I said, not an issue up to now - plenty of cyclists will track stand in the middle of a junction, or ignore a red light completely, which is not what I am advocating.

Lumen

AlekSmart wrote: »

Good advice,however in reality the current situation in Dublin City Centre allows for roving delinquents armed with Lump Hammers to approach any machine in the O Connell St area and simply beat the lock off...I have seen it done on more than one occasion in very rapid order,and anybody considering an approach would do well to keep an eye on that Lump Hammer !

I don't believe that a good quality U-lock is susceptible to a lump hammer attack.

ashleey

Stillweak wrote: »

What do you think is an appropriate punishment for somebody who breaks a red light?
Should it be the same for every incident or should it be different depending on each situation. ie dangerous and stupid vs quiet road with nobody around?

What do you think is an appropriate punishment for somebody who steals a bike?
Should it be the same for every incident or should it be different depending on each situation. ie taking a bike chained to a lamp post in the middle of the night vs taking it off somebody who then chases you pleading for it back?

Bike stealing punishable by hands chopped off. It's supposed to be quite effective in some places . Most of those countries aren't short of a few quid so I dread to think what the punishment for breaking red lights is

Qualitymark

Jawgap wrote: »

what a surprise, "Mid range bike lock fails when assaulted by PPE wearing bike thieves.".

I'll let you google for yourself; the web is crawling with videos of people cutting through the most expensive bicycle locks with ease.

Pinch Flat

Stillweak wrote: »

What do you think is an appropriate punishment for somebody who breaks a red light?
Should it be the same for every incident or should it be different depending on each situation. ie dangerous and stupid vs quiet road with nobody around?

Should be a fixed penalty notice, paid within a certain time or you're summonsed to court where the fine ./ hassle increases. It's far to common here - hitting people in the pockets is the only way this will get drilled home.

Stillweak wrote: »

What do you think is an appropriate punishment for somebody who steals a bike?
Should it be the same for every incident or should it be different depending on each situation. ie taking a bike chained to a lamp post in the middle of the night vs taking it off somebody who then chases you pleading for it back?

Compare it to , say stealing a €1000 laptop or camera, which his about the costs of plenty of bikes out there. What happens in these scenarios? Usually a slap on the wrist or, at worst, community service - very rarely a custodial sentence. That's okay for the odd skanger who robs a bike to put on sale on adverts etc, but what's obvious though is that bike theft in certain areas is organised and a racket - it needs to be broken. I would be happy to register my bike for a small fee, and this document is used like a car when selling this - no documentation, no sale would dry the market up over night domestically, but a lot of bikes where are stolen for export I would say as well.

Chips Lovell

You don't have to cross the white line for safety reasons, even if the advance box (if there's one there) is occupied.

buffalo

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

You don't have to cross the white line for safety reasons, even if the advance box (if there's one there) is occupied.

I find myself having to cross it if I get to the top of the line and realise I can either sit in the blind spot of a driver, or move forward of the line. If I'm mindful enough, I'll stop behind the first car, but I'm not perfect (surprising, I know).

I'm also conscious I ran a red in front of you last Sunday (oh how the guilt has been eating away at me!), because I was too busy worrying about a car behind me who was trying for a close overtake, and didn't see the light change until the last second and didn't want to slam on the brakes. I still feel like a dick about it.

petethedrummer

Lumen wrote: »

I'm not sure that stacks up. AFAIK when engine immobilisers became widely available car thefts dropped substantially, the thieves didn't up their game.

(I could be wrong)

You could be right. But at the moment, my bikes are not being robbed. You can understand my eagerness to preserve the status quo.

John Kimble

Qualitymark wrote: »

I'll let you google for yourself; the web is crawling with videos of people cutting through the most expensive bicycle locks with ease.

The web is also crawling with videos of dogs adept at parkour and 9 year old piano prodigies, it doesn't mean either are the norm. As mentioned previously, a good lock may not guarantee the safety of your bike, but it's a good deterrent. The vast majority of these thefts are opportunistic, and it's amazing in this day and age the amount of people who will leave their bikes unattended for a few minutes to, say, pop into a shop thinking their bike will be safe. I'd imagine this applies to the son mentioned in the original letter, given that he has managed to lose 3 bikes in as many years. The author's energies would be better spent educating his son regarding this, rather than directing snide remarks at the Gardai for doing their job.

Jawgap

Qualitymark wrote: »

I'll let you google for yourself; the web is crawling with videos of people cutting through the most expensive bicycle locks with ease.

I agree, if someone really puts their mind to it they can cut a lock, dismantle a back rack or whatever to get their hands on your bike - the key (excuse the pun) is to deter them from 'wasting' their time on yours and get them to move on to some other poor unfortunate's - but less well secured - bike.

Professional, organised thefts do take place from time to time because the thieves want the bikes for their components, but the vast majority of bike theft in Dublin, I'll bet, is opportunistic and casual - that's easy enough to deter with a decent lock set and a bit of common sense about where and when you lock the bike and how long you leave it.

I think the only way to beat the pro is to not leave your shiny, well specc'ed machine alone in the big bad city for any length of time - but even then I'd suggest those gangs don't circulate in the city looking for the type of bike they want, they target houses and sheds to get the bikes - and that's less about bike theft and more about burglary.

Truman Burbank

Jawgap wrote: »

if someone really puts their mind to it they can cut a lock, dismantle a back rack or whatever to get their hands on your bike

Yes, but can they circumvent this?

"For anyone waiting for accessories, they are finally here by the way we have gotten new stronger bike covers that protect your bike from this hard weather and also from the thieving eye of Dublin knacker for anyone interested the quality went up but the price stays the same. €7 for non customers and €5 for customers who bought a bike from us at some stage".

https://www.facebook.com/AngelCruisers.ie
(Posted 1 hour ago)

tomasrojo

I suspect the Irish Times is hoping for a "lively" correspondence about red-light jumping, rather than bike theft.

ford2600

On bike theft, what is the market for thieves with 1,000 plus bikes for example? For the most part, are they sold as is on gumtree/donedeal etc or are they split into parts and sold?

In another area of regular theft, power equipment(chainsaws, drills, hedge cutter etc) I have been a victim on 2 occassion (4 items). These are typically sold at car boot sales or out of vans. What makes me livid is the people that buy this equipment; I always assumed it was similar low lifes to thieves.
However in past couple of months two guys I know, hard working family men told me of the great deals they got on pro chainsaws ( worth cicrca 1,000). They bought they in excellent condition for about 20% of there new value.

WTF, do people just suspend their intellect and decency at the sight of a "deal. " Is it same rational that drives bike theft?

BailMeOut

ford2600 wrote: »

On bike theft, what is the market for thieves with 1,000 plus bikes for example? For the most part, are they sold as is on gumtree/donedeal etc or are they split into parts and sold?

In another area of regular theft, power equipment(chainsaws, drills, hedge cutter etc) I have been a victim on 2 occassion (4 items). These are typically sold at car boot sales or out of vans. What makes me livid is the people that buy this equipment; I always assumed it was similar low lifes to thieves.
However in past couple of months two guys I know, hard working family men told me of the great deals they got on pro chainsaws ( worth cicrca 1,000). They bought they in excellent condition for about 20% of there new value.

WTF, do people just suspend their intellect and decency at the sight of a "deal. " Is it same rational that drives bike theft?

Drives me mad too. Cyclists are the ones buying bikes that were stolen from their fellow cyclists. Simple fix to all his - cyclists should stop buying stolen bikes!

mardybumbum

Only had a bicycle stolen once on me. It wasn't a great bike but it was my main mode of transport around town so I was pretty pissed to see it had vanished from the lampost where I usually lock it up.

Went on to adverts.ie straight away and voila, there it was for 200 euro. I offered the guy 150 and told him I'd meet him at a local public area. Also rang the gardai beforehand to let them know I would be meeting this gentleman.

Went up and shook hands with the trackie clad scumbag when two gardai swooped in and threw him in the back of an unmarked squad car.

Got a call later that night asking if I wanted to press charges ( apparently he was a "decent guy" with a job and two kids ) and I declined. Was too happy with having my bike back and didn't want the hassle.

Still have that bike to this day and it still functions perfectly well as a commuter.

Recently spent over a grand on my first road bike and that event has meant that it either stays in my room or under my bum.

No Pants

mardybumbum wrote: »

apparently he was a "decent guy" with a job and two kids

Seriously? This is how the Gardai describe thieves these days?