Teacher with crazy class

LegacyUser

Hi! i am a national school teacher... I battle with quite bad anxiety and have ocd too.. The last few years, I have had a resource teaching job; teaching smaller groups of kids with learning difficulties: this was a bit boring at times, and funnily enough, my ocd could be quite bad..
So this year I took a class. It has been really, really tough. The school is in a fairly rough area and so the kids are very tough and disruptive... They also have a lot of emotional issues due to bereavements, drugs/alcohol/crime problems in their families.
I am actually quite a shy person, but also intelligent and hard-working...
I have worked really hard to be the boss and maintain control, but they are just wild; i have had to break up fights in class, kids throwing things, talking really aggressively and disrespectfully to me; by 12;30pm I am normally shattered and hoarse...by the end of the school day I am shattered...they get progressively worse as the day goes on..
My Principal is aware of my difficulties and that I have anxiety & ocd and has been really nice and supportive.
This weekend I am tired, have got a bad cold and run down; Christmas seems a looonnng time away...!
I take it a bit personally too and sad that I can't control them and be the boss..


Any advice from teachers or others?

Thank you...

Big Bag of Chips

tired teacher.com, there is a Primary & Pre School forum where you might get better answers. I know a lot of teachers posts there. You will have to register to post in that Forum, however, as anonymous posting isn't allowed.

ted1

Tbh it sounds like your not up to the job, granted I have never worked as a teacher but I have worked as a swim teacher teaching 30 hyper kids in a situation with potential drowning where they are hyper. You need to chill out , and relax . Perhaps try counselling, kids smell weaknesses and pray in it

R.D. aka MR.D

Have you spent much time looking into different classroom management strategies?

There are tons of different things you can try. It can be hard to regain control once they've started off being able to walk all over you but it can be done.

i've had a class of kids (i'm an esl teacher) who would physically fight and one tried to stab my hand with a box cutter. By the end of the semester i had them pretty much in line.

mikemac1

Most any workplace has a buddy system and new staff are given someone to talk to.

There are sure to be a few wise old heads in the staffroom who have seen it all and nothing phases them.

Can you approach somebody?

+1 to the above post that kids smell weakness.

LegacyUser

I work in a DEIS 1 Urban School so understand how tough it can be. However there is no way I would tolerate that level of misbehaviour. There is a code of discipline and behaviour policy in the school. I would start implementing this asap. Fighting in the classroom can not be tolerated. That is the first issue you need to deal with.
There are a lot of different ideas for classroom management out there. You will more than likely find that some work better than others or that what works this month won't the next. the key is to be flexible in your rewards but extremely consistent in sanctions. You will have to, have to, have to implement whatever classroom sanctions you have drawn up or whatever school wide sanctions are in place for REPEATED / more serious behaviour difficulties. This can be very draining and demoralising as some days it will seem that all you are doing is dealing with poor behaviour and no teaching. But it will in my experience pay off. You will more than likely take two steps back one step forward but if you are consistent the child will learn that when teacher asks you to do something she will follow through. ( Something which is often lacking in their home lives where no often means are sure go ahead I can't be arsed dealing with you.)

You will need to mind yourself - I've had my share of really tough classes and I make it a point to treat myself to something small. If I have a bad day I say well today wasn't great but tomorrow will be better.

TwoGallants

Hey, I teach young kids as well. Its an English language class and I live abroad, but the kids here seem to be more hyper or something than back home. The groups are small (my largest class has ten students) so it is somewhat easier to control, but some days I'm just exhausted after teaching them. In my opinion, two things work well with unruly kids. 1) always be confident, they can sense when you doubt yourself. Learning to have pretend confidence is on the most important skills any teacher can ever have. 2) discipline. I'm not a disciplinarian by nature, I'm quite easy going and liberal by persuasion but its unfair on the kids who want to learn if a few rough kids disrupt a class. You need to let them know who is in charge, they won't respect you otherwise.

If you're finding it too difficult to control the class, maybe you seriously need to start thinking about whether teaching this age group is for you. Teaching isn't an easy occupation, not everyone is 'built' for it. It isn't failure admitting to yourself that you're not good at a certain occupation, if anything it is a sign of inner strength.

Sleepy

I'd suggest an appointment with a career guidance specialist as tbh, it doesn't sound like you're really cut out to be a teacher, or certainly not in your current school. Could you seek a transfer to a school in a nicer area where the students are less likely to be problematic?

Catari Jaguar

Sleepy wrote: »

I'd suggest an appointment with a career guidance specialist as tbh, it doesn't sound like you're really cut out to be a teacher, or certainly not in your current school. Could you seek a transfer to a school in a nicer area where the students are less likely to be problematic?

Those kinds of comments really aren't helpful and will just undermine and chip away ata their confidence. There are many aspects of teaching and OP could be brilliant at a lot of them and have her heart in the right place and the kids best interests at heart and we need more people like that in teaching. A bit of confidence is what she needs to nip this problem in the bud.

Students can be problematic no matter where you are, so a "nicer area" isn't going to make it go away.

OP, you need to be firm, FAIR and consistent. Be the alpha, this in MY classroom, you are MY class, I am in charge and THIS is how it is going to be. Believe in yourself or adopt a persona of being Ms.X and this is how she acts, channel a teacher you respect and do as they do, but just believe it. Walk around like you own the place, nip little things in the bud e.g. swinging on a chair, talking out loud, getting out of the chair without permission to establish authority. These kids do NOTHING without your permission. Jump on everything. Put the foot down firmly, maintain a clear, calm, firm voice and be completely unapologetic and unwavering.

Children need routine and structure. They need to be aware of what the rules are so display them in the class and refer back to them constantly. They need to know the CONSEQUENCES for breaking these rules and the need to be held ACCOUNTABLE. When a rule is broken point to the chart and ask them, "What's the rule on fighting?" Child says/ reads "fighting is not allowed" you ask them "What were you doing?" (Never ask "Why?" btw! no justification allowed - shifts blame) child has to answer "I was fighting" thus taking responsibility. So you say "When you fight in class, and break a rule, the consequence is time out/ leave the class/ lose a reward/ whatever is in school plan.." Give child waiting time to follow the request and then thank them.

TLDR: Be firm, be confident, display rules, give a command, wait time, thank the child.

Good luck!

Sleepy

Catari Jaguar wrote: »

Those kinds of comments really aren't helpful and will just undermine and chip away ata their confidence. There are many aspects of teaching and OP could be brilliant at a lot of them and have her heart in the right place and the kids best interests at heart and we need more people like that in teaching. A bit of confidence is what she needs to nip this problem in the bud.

If the OP isn't able for it, he/she isn't able for it and tbh, it might be for the best if he/she doesn't continue being a teacher and finds a less stressful career to pursue.

Students can be problematic no matter where you are, so a "nicer area" isn't going to make it go away.

Honestly, that's the height of naievety. Of course, you can still have problematic students in nicer areas but in reality, you'll have a lot less of them and you'll be more likely to receive support in dealing with them. It's one of the main reasons house prices can be so high in these areas.

freshpopcorn

Sleepy wrote: »

I'd suggest an appointment with a career guidance specialist as tbh, it doesn't sound like you're really cut out to be a teacher, or certainly not in your current school. Could you seek a transfer to a school in a nicer area where the students are less likely to be problematic?

Sleepy wrote: »

If the OP isn't able for it, he/she isn't able for it and tbh, it might be for the best if he/she doesn't continue being a teacher and finds a less stressful career to pursue.


Honestly, that's the height of naievety. Of course, you can still have problematic students in nicer areas but in reality, you'll have a lot less of them and you'll be more likely to receive support in dealing with them. It's one of the main reasons house prices can be so high in these areas.

I was just showing the thread to my sister who is a vice principal. Who has taught in both well to do areas/poorer areas/country schools and she found that they are problematic children in almost every area.
The only thing that can be done about it for the teacher to try an enforce a behaviour management policy that works for them. They area plenty of things that can be done such as positive behaviour management.
Also OP look at your class. Try and sit children that might fight with one another at opposite sides of the room. Also get across the message that fighting will not be tolerated and if their is a problem it should be talked out.
Often teachers can struggle to tackle a large class and they may feel stressed. Sometimes these are brilliant teachers. They are plenty of courses out there Op that might be able to befit you with your classroom management problem. You might also be more suited to learning support/resource.
Also remember OP you went to college and you were visited by inspectors during your TP and when you did your HDip the cigire visited you 2/3 times during the year. The cigire monitors your progress during the year and if felt that you were having issues he would have let you know.

simonsays1

Dear Sleepy,
your comments are so negative and soooo unhelpful for OP during these moments.
She is asking for advice and all you say is go to a career guidance counsellor!! She is facing this class tomorrow.
Seriously, don't bother even replying!

Teacher with crazy class,
I agree with cati jaguar as regards discipline etc.

Also, what is your current reward system?
start one such as
pick children who are behaving beautifully during the day and put their name into a jar. Pick one name out at the end of the day and give them a prize- 2e shop job. Do this everyday and then drag it over two days when possible.
Then, you could develop a more intrinsic one.

Let them know who is boss. Go over rules, remind them of their boundaries,follow through with procedures!
I've been there!
Stick with it!

simonsays1

Sleepy wrote: »

I'd suggest an appointment with a career guidance specialist as tbh, it doesn't sound like you're really cut out to be a teacher, or certainly not in your current school. Could you seek a transfer to a school in a nicer area where the students are less likely to be problematic?

Seek a transfer......?

That's not how it works

Semele

I think the posters saying that the OP is maybe just not cut out for the job are a bit hasty tbh, and not the kind of advice that's going to do wonders for her confidence. Teaching is one of those jobs where you're constantly learning and developing your skills, and in my opinion it's the sign of a good, reflective person that you can identify the areas that you struggle in and pursue ways to better these. You leave uni competent to teach, but that doesn't mean you know it all! It just means that you're good enough. Wanting to be more than just good-enough and actively targeting areas for development is a good sign and no-one should think any less of you professionally for asking for help in this. Do you have supervision often? Is this something that you could put on the agenda as a development point if so? Maybe you could get advice from a more experienced member of staff, or have classroom management/assertiveness training put down on your continuing professional development plan? What might actually be a good idea is to find yourself a mentor- someone with more experience who can help guide your development and be someone impartial to speak to who doesn't have any managerial authority over you? I have one in my healthcare related job and it's been great- no matter how much you get on with a boss there's always a reluctance to call attention to your weaknesses, I find, and having someone besides this is a fantastic resource.

evolving_doors

Ok one very very small bit of advice if you want to do something new and get them settled...

Slowly Crank up the heating ..start just before the class starts...then tell them the heating is acting up and offer a very small glass of water...with the promise of more later ..lay out your new regime while they are busy drinking the water ...very quickly offer them some choices to make them think you are taking on board their ideas (offer a blue pen or black pen etc ). Then get them to come up with the new class rules...main one being that one person talks at a time..

TwoGallants

Catari Jaguar wrote: »

Those kinds of comments really aren't helpful and will just undermine and chip away ata their confidence. There are many aspects of teaching and OP could be brilliant at a lot of them and have her heart in the right place and the kids best interests at heart and we need more people like that in teaching. A bit of confidence is what she needs to nip this problem in the bud.

Students can be problematic no matter where you are, so a "nicer area" isn't going to make it go away.

OP, you need to be firm, FAIR and consistent. Be the alpha, this in MY classroom, you are MY class, I am in charge and THIS is how it is going to be. Believe in yourself or adopt a persona of being Ms.X and this is how she acts, channel a teacher you respect and do as they do, but just believe it. Walk around like you own the place, nip little things in the bud e.g. swinging on a chair, talking out loud, getting out of the chair without permission to establish authority. These kids do NOTHING without your permission. Jump on everything. Put the foot down firmly, maintain a clear, calm, firm voice and be completely unapologetic and unwavering.

Children need routine and structure. They need to be aware of what the rules are so display them in the class and refer back to them constantly. They need to know the CONSEQUENCES for breaking these rules and the need to be held ACCOUNTABLE. When a rule is broken point to the chart and ask them, "What's the rule on fighting?" Child says/ reads "fighting is not allowed" you ask them "What were you doing?" (Never ask "Why?" btw! no justification allowed - shifts blame) child has to answer "I was fighting" thus taking responsibility. So you say "When you fight in class, and break a rule, the consequence is time out/ leave the class/ lose a reward/ whatever is in school plan.." Give child waiting time to follow the request and then thank them.

TLDR: Be firm, be confident, display rules, give a command, wait time, thank the child.

Good luck!

I really can't stress how much I disagree with this approach. For a start, it will only ever work if the OP is this kind of teacher/person. Many teachers simply aren't built this way. If she isn't built this way she won't come across well if she suddenly starts behaving like an authoritarian.

Yes, kids need rules and structure but its a mistake to think of them as animals that need to be 'taught' how to behave. There is no reason why a child cannot ask 'why' a rule is the way it is. If anything, its a sign of an inquiring mind, which is something the educational system should be trying to nurture. There is no reason why the teacher shouldn't offer rationalisations. I'd prefer my students to work and learn but also not to feel like class is a prison. A more moderate approach works well.

Think about your favourite teacher when you were a kid. I was in a rowdy class but my favourite teacher didn't resort to any of the above methods. In fact, he treated us as we ought to be treated - young, inquiring minds with lots of energy to burn. The key is harnessing that energy. Simply saying 'no' is an extremely demoralising and harmful approach to take IMO.

evolving_doors

I think its a mix of the last two posts... I think the op mentioned it was a resource class..so there might be a bit of hatred for the authority figures thing going on ..a few of the kids with adhd I taught thrived and fed off my frustration when I took the authoritarian approach...totally unproductive....but they still have to be called up when they break the rules..

LegacyUser

Hi! Thanks for the replies. I am looking at other options work wise: but everyone is at the moment eh?
Maybe i should look at changing career or moving to less challenging roles, discipline-wise...
I work really hard, am caring and intelligent...i am also very sensitive and find it hard to leave school behind when i get home...
At the same time, I plan on giving this year a good try & at the same time look after my health as I have been wrecked and a bit sick this weekend...
My class are a very tough bunch; some are plain bold and disruptive and some suffer from extremely tough backgrounds and carry a lot of emotional trauma and bagage...naturally this can flare up at any time...
As a teacher noadays, teaching is the least of your worries; you also have to counsel, physch analyse, advise, and play a subtle game to keep the kids happy and behaved and the parents happy: a lot of parents are reasonable ,but some just make your life a nightmare!!

I have good support from my Principal and other teachers...i have a discipline plan & am trying my best to implement it to the letter...
This class have a history of being very difficult and have taken their tole on teachers...
One day at a time!!

Catari Jaguar

TwoGallants wrote: »

I really can't stress how much I disagree with this approach. For a start, it will only ever work if the OP is this kind of teacher/person. Many teachers simply aren't built this way. If she isn't built this way she won't come across well if she suddenly starts behaving like an authoritarian.

Yes, kids need rules and structure but its a mistake to think of them as animals that need to be 'taught' how to behave. There is no reason why a child cannot ask 'why' a rule is the way it is. If anything, its a sign of an inquiring mind, which is something the educational system should be trying to nurture. There is no reason why the teacher shouldn't offer rationalisations. I'd prefer my students to work and learn but also not to feel like class is a prison. A more moderate approach works well.

Think about your favourite teacher when you were a kid. I was in a rowdy class but my favourite teacher didn't resort to any of the above methods. In fact, he treated us as we ought to be treated - young, inquiring minds with lots of energy to burn. The key is harnessing that energy. Simply saying 'no' is an extremely demoralising and harmful approach to take IMO.

Everyone can be this type - you fake it. Feel free to disagree, but I know what I am talking about, I have researched this, practiced it and turned it into a fine art during my years in an DEIS urban band 1. I have completed courses in Restorative Practices aswell, I am very much the anti jack boot. Any class I have taught in the children are enthusiastic, happy, behaved and settled. I am very fond of them, they are very fond of me. They know where they stand, they know who is in charge, they know what is going to happen and that I will be there for them to steer them and keep them in line, as any leader/guardian does in a stable, safe, controlled learning environment. To get to that stage you have to put in the groundwork that I laid out. Firm and strong, you can ease up once the kids are in line. Right now the OP needs to establish authority, hence the guidelines I suggested, though they are more for your own class not so much resource/withdrawal.

Why isn't "why does this rule exist?" You ask a kid "why were you doing xyz?" you get a bunch of passing the buck, long drawn out excuses and back talk, escalates out of control, bargaining and losing focus. Go ahead and try and see how much time you waste. You want to make them feel like they have some control, give them alternatives like "Ok, you can either put that toy in your bag now, or give it to me til hometime" Bottom line - the toy is out of sight and you get what you want. Kid can't throw a tantrum because they have the illusion of choice.

You would have already explained the rules clearly, and the consequences fit the rules. Key here: Kids KNOW the rules, WHY they are necessary and EXACTLY what happens when they decide to rock the boat and break them.

OP, I really don't think you should let this beat you and give up. I was in your situation. One of my colleagues was in your situation too and we both turned it around. It just takes practice and self confidence. For your emotionally disturbed/ challenging children I suggest you talk to your principal about maybe looking into a course on Therapeutic Crisis Intervention, maybe for Croke Park hours for the staff? Even look it up yourself for co-regulation strategies and stuff.

There are so many positives to teaching, especially disadvantaged children, and I feel that once your classroom management is under control it will really reward you.

degausserxo

Armelodie wrote: »

Ok one very very small bit of advice if you want to do something new and get them settled...

Slowly Crank up the heating ..start just before the class starts...then tell them the heating is acting up and offer a very small glass of water...with the promise of more later

Are you actually joking? You CANNOT do that to children! OP, I wouldn't be scared out of your job by other posters on this thread if it's something you really love. Have a chat with your principal to see if there are any strategies he/she suggest be implemented and talk to other teachers in the school to see if they've had similar problems and how they've dealt with them. There are plenty of books out there that deal with behavioural managment, but in the meantime have a look at these links, one of them is from the INTO which you may already have seen. You can also contact the NBSS in Co. Meath through their website.

http://www.into.ie/NI/INTOStudentCentre/StudentPublications/Guide_managing_challenging_behaviour.pdf

http://www.nbss.ie/sites/default/files/publications/behaviour_management_resources_cu.pdf

TwoGallants

Catari Jaguar wrote: »

Everyone can be this type - you fake it. Feel free to disagree, but I know what I am talking about, I have researched this, practiced it and turned it into a fine art during my years in an DEIS urban band 1. I have completed courses in Restorative Practices aswell, I am very much the anti jack boot. Any class I have taught in the children are enthusiastic, happy, behaved and settled. I am very fond of them, they are very fond of me. They know where they stand, they know who is in charge, they know what is going to happen and that I will be there for them to steer them and keep them in line, as any leader/guardian does in a stable, safe, controlled learning environment. To get to that stage you have to put in the groundwork that I laid out. Firm and strong, you can ease up once the kids are in line. Right now the OP needs to establish authority, hence the guidelines I suggested, though they are more for your own class not so much resource/withdrawal.

Why isn't "why does this rule exist?" You ask a kid "why were you doing xyz?" you get a bunch of passing the buck, long drawn out excuses and back talk, escalates out of control, bargaining and losing focus. Go ahead and try and see how much time you waste. You want to make them feel like they have some control, give them alternatives like "Ok, you can either put that toy in your bag now, or give it to me til hometime" Bottom line - the toy is out of sight and you get what you want. Kid can't throw a tantrum because they have the illusion of choice.

You would have already explained the rules clearly, and the consequences fit the rules. Key here: Kids KNOW the rules, WHY they are necessary and EXACTLY what happens when they decide to rock the boat and break them.

OP, I really don't think you should let this beat you and give up. I was in your situation. One of my colleagues was in your situation too and we both turned it around. It just takes practice and self confidence. For your emotionally disturbed/ challenging children I suggest you talk to your principal about maybe looking into a course on Therapeutic Crisis Intervention, maybe for Croke Park hours for the staff? Even look it up yourself for co-regulation strategies and stuff.

There are so many positives to teaching, especially disadvantaged children, and I feel that once your classroom management is under control it will really reward you.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree then. Just as a personal note though, I HATED, and I mean, I HATED teachers like this when I was a kid. I suppose I was a little hard to handle when I was young, I never followed authority very easily. Even to this day I refuse to follow a rule simply because its a rule, I need to understand the costs and benefits of having a system of rules... Not to get too dramatic but instilling blind observance of arbitrary rules is a recipe for fascism, just saying!

freshpopcorn

TwoGallants wrote: »

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree then. Just as a personal note though, I HATED, and I mean, I HATED teachers like this when I was a kid. I suppose I was a little hard to handle when I was young, I never followed authority very easily. Even to this day I refuse to follow a rule simply because its a rule, I need to understand the costs and benefits of having a system of rules... Not to get too dramatic but instilling blind observance of arbitrary rules is a recipe for fascism, just saying!

My sister had a problem with girls fighting a couple of years ago in one of her class and one of the best ways she found to deal with the problem was to involve the kids in the rule making and for them to see and understand why the rules need to be. She has taken this approached with various issues and she finds empowering the kids can help a lot. Even teachers that are teaching over 30 years have started coping her approach to the issues that might arise from time to time.