happening in Fine Gael in Waterford?

revisionist

Talks are that the County Mayor is considering going as an independent in the next local elections. Apparently he didnt make the cut at selection and has decided to go it alone....

Sully

Moving to Waterford County

Siamsa Sessions

There was a short piece about it in the Dungarvan Observer last week. Cllr. Geoghegan said he expects to be added to the ticket by the National Executive (or similar - I can't recall the exact body he referred to).

If he isn't, he said, then he would stand anyway, which obviously means he'd be standing as an Independent candidate.

I have to admit, as a non-aligned voter, it seems odd that he's a poll-topper (according to that article) and yet wasn't added to the FG ticket.

Health warning: I have no connection whatsoever to Damien Geoghegan.

Mad Bull

Anyone standing for FG , FF and Labour, should be ashamed of themselves in my opinion.
What a shambles they have made of the country between the three of them.

Max Powers

Mad Bull wrote: »

Anyone standing for FG , FF and Labour, should be ashamed of themselves in my opinion.
What a shambles they have made of the country between the three of them.

fair enough i suppose but its a little bit of a lazy comment, I mean, who can you stand for in this country without being ashamed, as you pointed out above plus, SF..terrorists who object to everything and have a serious economic competency problem as a result, GP...no interest in Waterford and the words 'tax it' seem to be made for them, socialist workers...no explanation necessary. So basically leaves independents or a tech group where you are standing by yourself. I couldnt see a tech group ever running this country for any stretch of time which is unfortunate as there is what seems like decent folks there..halligan, norris, couple of others

Mad Bull

Max Powers wrote: »

fair enough i suppose but its a little bit of a lazy comment, I mean, who can you stand for in this country without being ashamed, as you pointed out above plus, SF..terrorists who object to everything and have a serious economic competency problem as a result, GP...no interest in Waterford and the words 'tax it' seem to be made for them, socialist workers...no explanation necessary. So basically leaves independents or a tech group where you are standing by yourself. I couldnt see a tech group ever running this country for any stretch of time which is unfortunate as there is what seems like decent folks there..halligan, norris, couple of others

It may well be a lazy comment but thats how I feel about them.
Im not in any way affiliated to any party, but Im all for giving people a chance.
You're entitled to your opinions about Sinn Fein and Socialist workers party etc. but at this stage Id give anyone a go at trying to get the country back on its feet. And then if they mess up , you can say they are ALL a bunch of wasters.
Why the stupid electorate keep going back for the same thing baffles me i.e. Fine Gael or Fianna Fail. The only difference beween the parties is the name.
.

revisionist

Max Powers wrote: »

fair enough i suppose but its a little bit of a lazy comment, I mean, who can you stand for in this country without being ashamed, as you pointed out above plus, SF..terrorists who object to everything and have a serious economic competency problem as a result, GP...no interest in Waterford and the words 'tax it' seem to be made for them, socialist workers...no explanation necessary. So basically leaves independents or a tech group where you are standing by yourself. I couldnt see a tech group ever running this country for any stretch of time which is unfortunate as there is what seems like decent folks there..halligan, norris, couple of others

Ah yes Max Powers the voice of reason....Sinn Fein terrorists? Trotting out the same old rubbish are we? The word terrorist has been applied to every group in the world attempting to liberate their people from an unwelcome oppressor. Nelson Mandela was labelled terrorist but is now one of the foremost respected world figures. It is almost three decades since the IRA laid down their arms . Is it not time to cast aside these petty slurs and false accusations ? Now remind me , who was the last Irishman to lay down his life for a principle ? Any of the money grabbing , corrupt crowd of the established parties would not ...

Yaxihy

revisionist wrote: »

Ah yes Max Powers the voice of reason....Sinn Fein terrorists? Trotting out the same old rubbish are we? The word terrorist has been applied to every group in the world attempting to liberate their people from an unwelcome oppressor. Nelson Mandela was labelled terrorist but is now one of the foremost respected world figures. It is almost three decades since the IRA laid down their arms . Is it not time to cast aside these petty slurs and false accusations ? Now remind me , who was the last Irishman to lay down his life for a principle ? Any of the money grabbing , corrupt crowd of the established parties would not ...

Where on earth are you pulling three decades as the length of time the IRA has been decommissioned out of ?

revisionist

Yaxihy wrote: »

Where on earth are you pulling three decades as the length of time the IRA has been decommissioned out of ?[/ of
Apologies ...2 decades with the exception of an 18 month spell ...my original point stands........it
is time to stop muck raking and labelling Sinn Fein as terrorists. It is lazy ignorant and facetious.

Kristopherus

Mad Bull wrote: »

It may well be a lazy comment but thats how I feel about them.
Im not in any way affiliated to any party, but Im all for giving people a chance.
You're entitled to your opinions about Sinn Fein and Socialist workers party etc. but at this stage Id give anyone a go at trying to get the country back on its feet. And then if they mess up , you can say they are ALL a bunch of wasters.
Why the stupid electorate keep going back for the same thing baffles me i.e. Fine Gael or Fianna Fail. The only difference beween the parties is the name.
.

And how do you suggest we'll get out of the mess?

Yaxihy

revisionist wrote: »

Yaxihy wrote: »

Where on earth are you pulling three decades as the length of time the IRA has been decommissioned out of ?[/ of
Apologies ...2 decades with the exception of an 18 month spell ...my original point stands........it
is time to stop muck raking and labelling Sinn Fein as terrorists. It is lazy ignorant and facetious.

I'd have to disagree, and argue that you're being dismissive of a valid opinion of a large proportion of the Irish electorate. In fact I think the ignorance lies with anyone who fails to recognise Sinn Fein's very recent history involving the North and the IRA. I'm not saying they should all be labelled as terrorists, but the party's leader is the same man who has been heavily involved in armed campaigns in the North over the past thirty years. The ignorance lies with those who want to just gloss over that. More closer to the present, the somewhat elusive links to more recent events and controversies (Northern Bank robbery etc) are more than enough to rattle confidence in an otherwise totally unproven political party.

I'm more than willing to listen to opinions regarding their political strategy, but I'd rather the history books were kept open on the desk and not forced shut....

Sully

I fail to see what Sinn Fein and their past has to do with the selection of a candidate in Waterford for Fine Gael. Neither the candidate or the party are linked to Sinn Fein or this discussion.

So if you want a general political discussion on Sinn Fein, than I suggest popping over to the Politics Forum. But lets keep this topic to discussions about the selection of the candidate for the Fine Gael party.

Thanks.

Mad Bull

Kristopherus wrote: »

And how do you suggest we'll get out of the mess?

As I said its time to give someone else the chance to F%^k things up , instead of leaving it to the usuals.

MinisterJD

I don't have any party political affiliation despite the username.
It's a pity this thread has gone so far off the initial point as it had the potential to be interesting.
I am no longer living in Ireland and consequently I am perhaps not as up to date with local politics as I would like to be.

I presume Waterford is still a 4 seat constituency (I know there was some amalgamations etc)??
At a guesstimate,I would say it's highly unlikely that Labour will hold their seat (They will do well to maintain a dozen seats nationally with Gilmore,Rabitte,Quinn etc likely to retire on their 2K per week pensions). Not meant to be a dig at labour but a cursory glance at the history of smaller members of coalition governments should have roared at them to play the long game.(After all politics is a game where unfortunately short term,self interests are promoted ahead of the long term benefit of the country)

I would imagine David Cullinane (SF) and MJ Ryan (FF) have a reasonable chance of gaining seats if both are intended runners??

So that would leave the other 2 seats to Fine Gael,John Halligan and other independents.
Surely Fine Gael only intend to run 2 candidates ,their sitting representatives??

From what I hear Geoghegan is extremely popular in Dungarvan and linked to the GAA club. Wasn't he (isn't) a pro Deasy man (presume there is still at least one Fine Gael divide in Waterford).Would Geoghegan get enough votes as an Independent?
No doubt he would poll very well in Dungarvan and get plenty of transfers from Deasy (presuming he is running) but surely he would struggle to get sufficient support from the city??

MinisterJD

Apologies,I misread the thread...Local elections not next General election.

I am very much out of touch,I must have a high opinion of Mr.Geoghegan that I thought he was a viable Dail candidate.
Very surprised to hear he is not a FG candidate for local elections and presume he would have no problem getting elected as an Independent.

Again apologies for my previous post,It's late

Deise Musashi

I know Damien has been a strong FG candidate, but I doubt he'd have the profile outside Dungarvan to crack the county as an independent. The Deasy carryover has been very good to him.

There is of course a split in FG in the County, the first order of business in any club or organization in this country is "The Split". I imagine the Paudie Coffey camp had some sway in Damien not getting the nod to run? I don't know for sure, but it's strange that a poll topper in previous years isn't running, without having rocked the boat in some way.

I would hope that the "Dungarvan" Labour TD gets buried next National elections, a waste of space in office so far as far as I can tell.

On the National stage, Halligan and Deasy are certs in my opinion, Cullinane most likely to make it over the line this time, and a catfight for floating votes to decide the final result.

I would hope that the suitability isn't going to be decided by protest or gender based voting, but anything is possible.

MinisterJD

Interesting and very little I would disagree with.
How would you evaluate Mickey Joe Ryan's chances of gaining a seat at this premature stage??(Is he likely to be Fianna Fail's only candidate?) Would he struggle for votes in the city ??I'd imagine he'd pull a fair Dungarvan vote and generally in the west.

Smiley Burnett

mickey joe would do ok, especially in far west, but would struggle as he goes eastwards...ff's best chance of a seat is with a city-based candidate in my opinion

Roanmore

Smiley Burnett wrote: »

mickey joe would do ok, especially in far west, but would struggle as he goes eastwards...ff's best chance of a seat is with a city-based candidate in my opinion

FF's best chance of a seat went with Gary Wyse's untimely death I would say unless Mary Roche could be coaxed back into the fold (extremely unlikely).

Black Suir

MinisterJD wrote: »

I don't have any party political affiliation despite the username.
It's a pity this thread has gone so far off the initial point as it had the potential to be interesting.
I am no longer living in Ireland and consequently I am perhaps not as up to date with local politics as I would like to be.

I presume Waterford is still a 4 seat constituency (I know there was some amalgamations etc)??
At a guesstimate,I would say it's highly unlikely that Labour will hold their seat (They will do well to maintain a dozen seats nationally with Gilmore,Rabitte,Quinn etc likely to retire on their 2K per week pensions). Not meant to be a dig at labour but a cursory glance at the history of smaller members of coalition governments should have roared at them to play the long game.(After all politics is a game where unfortunately short term,self interests are promoted ahead of the long term benefit of the country)

I would imagine David Cullinane (SF) and MJ Ryan (FF) have a reasonable chance of gaining seats if both are intended runners??

So that would leave the other 2 seats to Fine Gael,John Halligan and other independents.
Surely Fine Gael only intend to run 2 candidates ,their sitting representatives??

From what I hear Geoghegan is extremely popular in Dungarvan and linked to the GAA club. Wasn't he (isn't) a pro Deasy man (presume there is still at least one Fine Gael divide in Waterford).Would Geoghegan get enough votes as an Independent?
No doubt he would poll very well in Dungarvan and get plenty of transfers from Deasy (presuming he is running) but surely he would struggle to get sufficient support from the city??

Well liked in Dungarvan is right but outside of it and its hinterland, he is not the most popular of fellows. With Dungarvan and Lismore areas joined for the June Elections it could be interesting. I was talking to a man today who made an interesting comment. He said that in the Lismore area, Nora Flynn would have had a big following both from the town of Cappoquin and the likes of Affane and from the FG Membership in the Lismore electorate area. She is not standing this year and it will be interesting to see where her votes will go. They wont necessary go to Dec Docey from Lismore who is also a FG Cllr. Will they go to someone from Dungarvan. Its hard to know. Maybe if the people of Cappoquin and the likes of Affane, Melleray and Tourin could get someone to run, maybe as an independent, they could have a good chance of getting someone elected and more over if as expected that none of the Wilkinson's wont be going for FG. If they don't get someone to stand, expect James Tobin to do well in the election despite loosing hotbeds for him in Modeligo and Touraneena which will be in the Suir area.

Black Suir

Deise Musashi wrote: »

I know Damien has been a strong FG candidate, but I doubt he'd have the profile outside Dungarvan to crack the county as an independent. The Deasy carryover has been very good to him.

There is of course a split in FG in the County, the first order of business in any club or organization in this country is "The Split". I imagine the Paudie Coffey camp had some sway in Damien not getting the nod to run? I don't know for sure, but it's strange that a poll topper in previous years isn't running, without having rocked the boat in some way.

I would hope that the "Dungarvan" Labour TD gets buried next National elections, a waste of space in office so far as far as I can tell.

On the National stage, Halligan and Deasy are certs in my opinion, Cullinane most likely to make it over the line this time, and a catfight for floating votes to decide the final result.

I would hope that the suitability isn't going to be decided by protest or gender based voting, but anything is possible.

If she had any sense she would announce well before the election that she was not standing as she has not a cats chance of getting re-elected.

Smiley Burnett

Black Suir wrote: »

Well liked in Dungarvan is right but outside of it and its hinterland, he is not the most popular of fellows. With Dungarvan and Lismore areas joined for the June Elections it could be interesting. I was talking to a man today who made an interesting comment. He said that in the Lismore area, Nora Flynn would have had a big following both from the town of Cappoquin and the likes of Affane and from the FG Membership in the Lismore electorate area. She is not standing this year and it will be interesting to see where her votes will go. They wont necessary go to Dec Docey from Lismore who is also a FG Cllr. Will they go to someone from Dungarvan. Its hard to know. Maybe if the people of Cappoquin and the likes of Affane, Melleray and Tourin could get someone to run, maybe as an independent, they could have a good chance of getting someone elected and more over if as expected that none of the Wilkinson's wont be going for FG. If they don't get someone to stand, expect James Tobin to do well in the election despite loosing hotbeds for him in Modeligo and Touraneena which will be in the Suir area.

3 certainties going into the election...tobin, Cronin and nugent...geoghegan will certainly be in the shake-up (the only candidate to get votes IN EVERY SINGLE BALLOT BOX at the last locals)...His appeal certainly extends beyond Dungarvan!!...Labour have 3 candidates---should pick up one seat at least...SF have 2 first-time candidates and going on opinion poll figures should take a seat...Interesting times ahead

Black Suir

Smiley Burnett wrote: »

mickey joe would do ok, especially in far west, but would struggle as he goes eastwards...ff's best chance of a seat is with a city-based candidate in my opinion

Mikey Joe and Gary Wyse (RIP) between then would possibly have got elected. Gary was very popular in the city across all the parties and Mickey Joe is as you say is popular in the west. He and his family would be well know across the county through the GAA.

Black Suir

Roanmore wrote: »

FF's best chance of a seat went with Gary Wyse's untimely death I would say unless Mary Roche could be coaxed back into the fold (extremely unlikely).

Would be a good candidate but doubt she would stand in an election. I would say there is a better chance of a white Christmas than for her to return to Fianna Fail. She has hit out a lot at them since she went independent.

Black Suir

Smiley Burnett wrote: »

3 certainties going into the election...tobin, Cronin and nugent...geoghegan will certainly be in the shake-up (the only candidate to get votes IN EVERY SINGLE BALLOT BOX at the last locals)...His appeal certainly extends beyond Dungarvan!!...Labour have 3 candidates---should pick up one seat at least...SF have 2 first-time candidates and going on opinion poll figures should take a seat...Interesting times ahead

Cant see Tom Cronin or Pat Nugent getting elected. Both might get elected if it was just a Dungarvan area but with Lismore now involved in one large area they could find it tough. Of the two, Tom might have the best chance, as he could as a man from a neighbouring parish pick up most of Brendan Mansfield's votes in Ring and Old Parish. I don't know if Seamus O'Donnell will stand in the election. If the people of his own area were to vote for him he would stand a good chance, but may not make it in the end as he would not be that well know in the likes of Lismore, Cappoquin, Tallow and Ballyduff etc.

Smiley Burnett

Black Suir wrote: »

Cant see Tom Cronin or Pat Nugent getting elected. Both might get elected if it was just a Dungarvan area but with Lismore now involved in one large area they could find it tough. Of the two, Tom might have the best chance, as he could as a man from a neighbouring parish pick up most of Brendan Mansfield's votes in Ring and Old Parish. I don't know if Seamus O'Donnell will stand in the election. If the people of his own area were to vote for him he would stand a good chance, but may not make it in the end as he would not be that well know in the likes of Lismore, Cappoquin, Tallow and Ballyduff etc.

pat nugent came very close to topping the poll last time WITHOUT his home village of Clashmore!! This time clashmore is back and it will suit both nugent and Cronin...Jimmy walsh also impacted on nugent in old parish/ring last time...The area is now much more rural so it will suit strong rural candidates like nugent and Cronin...

Black Suir

Smiley Burnett wrote: »

pat nugent came very close to topping the poll last time WITHOUT his home village of Clashmore!! This time clashmore is back and it will suit both nugent and Cronin...Jimmy walsh also impacted on nugent in old parish/ring last time...The area is now much more rural so it will suit strong rural candidates like nugent and Cronin...

You may have a point, but I think having Lismore in the group this time will damage them. To have your own native area in where you are standing does not mean that the people will vote for you. As I said the people of Ring and Old Parish in 2009 did not vote for Seamus O'Donnell and I think he stood again in 2004 (correct me if I am wrong, I don't know if it was for Fianna Fail or as an independent, it was as an independent in 2009) and they did not vote for him that time either. Maybe Fiachra was in the 2004 election (I cant remember) and if they were against each other they would have taken votes off each other, but not enough to get elected.

Smiley Burnett

seamus odonnell keeps referring to himself as an independent but in reality he is a FF candidate...that doesn't help him in my opinion.

Black Suir

Smiley Burnett wrote: »

seamus odonnell keeps referring to himself as an independent but in reality he is a FF candidate...that doesn't help him in my opinion.

I tend to agree with you. If a person breaks away from a party then they should sever all political ties with them. That is why I said that Mary Roche would not re-join FF and run for them in the next election. It is widely known that they had Gary Wyse lined up to run in the city, Tramore and the far east of the county. Maybe however they could still have a top name to run for them or so I am hearing.

Deise Musashi

I think a lot of the rural candidates tend to split the vote between them, so none end up making the quota.

With the two councils amalgamating I think a lot of smaller areas like Old Parish, Clashmore etc. will vote as they may, but like Tramore has seen in many elections, the major urban candidates have the population density to more easily prevail.

I know it can be done, the same way as Brendan Mansfield used to canvass strongly in Ring/Old Parish. Garnering a large vote in rural areas takes a much larger effort and a longer campaign to reach the same number of voters.
I can remember when the local Fine Gael/Fianna Fail supporters would ferry people in from the local old folks home and hospital to vote. Again it could be done in rural areas, but the distances and time involved makes it very tough on any candidate without a large political machine behind them.

I wonder if the Sinn Fein vote in Dungarvan will fully transfer to their new candidate, possibly picking up the "we've tried all other options" vote.

Fun times to be a follower of the soap opera that is politics!

Smiley Burnett

Interesting to look back on this topic and the predictions for the local elections 12 months on from the last post!!