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Club time sheet full

2

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 94 ✭✭whitefoot


    What contributes to the problem is people who already have the discipline to book immediately the timesheet becomes available but have not checked if their regular fourball want to actually play but routinely reserve the slot by booking 9 days in advance.

    My observation is that for the first 8 days Sunday will be fully booked but then demand fade sets in and come Saturday evening there are lots of slots available for the next day Sunday. This is such a suststained trend that I no longer worry about full time sheets and know that I will get out at some stage reasonably but it is all very unnecessary and makes it a hassle as you cannot schedule your time.

    Out of curiousity I once printed the time sheet on Day 1 and compared it to the actual players on Day 9 at the end of that competition, the amount of original names still in their original slot was less than 65%, pure churn.

    I doubt this went on pre-BRS or the club would have spent a fortune on Tipex but so easy to do with the anonymity of on-line access.....having said that I love the BRS system if only everyone respected that by tentatively booking they are denying someone else the slot.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,905 ✭✭✭Macker1


    For three weeks running me and the other two members that regularly play together have not been able to get out on a Sunday due to full time sheets. On Monday morning one of the guys was on the site within a minute of the time sheet for Sunday opening and was unable to get a slot. Its very frustrating as a member being unable to play on a Sunday in the weekly competition. I asked was the club looking at some way of improving the situation but was told no. That's another reason why I will be not renewing membership and looking for a club nearer home with a better chance of getting out on the weekend.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,505 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    are they cutting members time for visitors or is it just you can't get the time you want?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,313 ✭✭✭Dr_Colossus


    Macker1 wrote: »
    For three weeks running me and the other two members that regularly play together have not been able to get out on a Sunday due to full time sheets. On Monday morning one of the guys was on the site within a minute of the time sheet for Sunday opening and was unable to get a slot. Its very frustrating as a member being unable to play on a Sunday in the weekly competition. I asked was the club looking at some way of improving the situation but was told no. That's another reason why I will be not renewing membership and looking for a club nearer home with a better chance of getting out on the weekend.

    Not surprised you're leaving, that's a pretty crap member benefit. What club is it?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,138 ✭✭✭✭PARlance


    Not surprised you're leaving, that's a pretty crap member benefit. What club is it?

    Pretty sure Macker is in Grange Castle with me.
    It's madness to be honest.
    Saying that, I'm a late booker most weeks and I have always got a slot.
    But there's no chance if you're looking for a 3 ball very shortly after the timesheet opens.

    They always keep a block booking free on Sat for visitors or societies. That wasn't a major issue until they decided, for some crazy reason, to bring in a separate Sat and Sun comp recently.

    Not sure if they're going to change it back but I'll be finding out before signing up next year.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,138 ✭✭✭✭PARlance


    PARlance wrote: »
    Not sure if they're going to change it back but I'll be finding out before signing up next year.

    On quick reflection :) it might be better for me if they kept it that way. Just because I'd happily slot in as a 3rd on a line.
    I am away a bit and I could double up on weekends I'm around...
    But on the whole, you have to respect the need to cater for people that want to golf in a regular group. There's a big membership, too big for 2 comps over 1 weekend.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,905 ✭✭✭Macker1


    GreeBo wrote: »
    are they cutting members time for visitors or is it just you can't get the time you want?

    No I don't think so. The time sheet for this coming Sunday opened at 07:30am on Monday and by 07:31am was all filled. The were 29 time slot all filled with 3 players so only 87 players could be catered for. We would have been flexible to play at any of the times but all slots were gone. There is a waiting list which we joined in case of cancellations but when I asked about this it is very rare that cancellations happen on a Sunday. I did suggest reducing the time that is currently between time slots (8mins) so as to increase the number of slots but was told this wouldn't be a runner.

    It will be my turn to book next Monday and I guess I will have to be quick whilst keeping my trigger finger over the button as 07:30am approaches.

    Great fun for a Monday morning but I didn't pay full membership for this.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,000 ✭✭✭Russman


    I can totally understand people's frustrations, its the same in my club at 11am on a Thursday.
    But, and its not having a go at anyone, seriously, what does anyone suggest is a solution ? Unless the club is secretly opening the sheet 5 mins early for a chosen few members, there's not a lot to be done.

    Going back to a hard copy timesheet might have merits, but it no matter what time it opens at you'll have the same issues with guys saying they can't get up to the club, or they were out on the course when the sheet opened etc etc.

    Making people pay when they book might work to a degree, but then again, there's probably less chance of getting out on spec as anyone on the sheet will likely turn up. Also it doesn't really solve the problem (if it is indeed a problem as opposed to just the way things are).

    IMO as long as there's a timesheet of any sort in operation you're going to have people who can't get on it for any number of reasons. Its the same in almost every club that has online booking.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 644 ✭✭✭Arsenium


    Macker1 wrote: »
    No I don't think so. The time sheet for this coming Sunday opened at 07:30am on Monday and by 07:31am was all filled. The were 29 time slot all filled with 3 players so only 87 players could be catered for. We would have been flexible to play at any of the times but all slots were gone. There is a waiting list which we joined in case of cancellations but when I asked about this it is very rare that cancellations happen on a Sunday. I did suggest reducing the time that is currently between time slots (8mins) so as to increase the number of slots but was told this wouldn't be a runner.

    It will be my turn to book next Monday and I guess I will have to be quick whilst keeping my trigger finger over the button as 07:30am approaches.

    Great fun for a Monday morning but I didn't pay full membership for this.

    Its a pain in the ass I know. A little thing to remember when doing this. The BRS system shows the server time as you are waiting for it to open. Make sure to refresh about a second or two before it hits 7:30 AM. Dont watch the time on your PC / phone / tablet or whatever you are using in case it is different to the server time.

    Best of luck :-)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,905 ✭✭✭Macker1


    Russman wrote: »
    I can totally understand people's frustrations, its the same in my club at 11am on a Thursday.
    But, and its not having a go at anyone, seriously, what does anyone suggest is a solution ? Unless the club is secretly opening the sheet 5 mins early for a chosen few members, there's not a lot to be done.

    Going back to a hard copy timesheet might have merits, but it no matter what time it opens at you'll have the same issues with guys saying they can't get up to the club, or they were out on the course when the sheet opened etc etc.

    Making people pay when they book might work to a degree, but then again, there's probably less chance of getting out on spec as anyone on the sheet will likely turn up. Also it doesn't really solve the problem (if it is indeed a problem as opposed to just the way things are).

    IMO as long as there's a timesheet of any sort in operation you're going to have people who can't get on it for any number of reasons. Its the same in almost every club that has online booking.

    To be honest this had crossed my mind....... Certain players have no issue in getting a slot. ;);)


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,505 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    we use brs and I assays get my slot, sheet opens at 8am on Friday mornings.
    reducing the time between slots would probably cause havoc to be fair...no point in having the sheet always running late.

    we just started online payment, you lose it if you cancel too late you forfeit your cash.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,138 ✭✭✭✭PARlance


    Macker1 wrote: »
    To be honest this had crossed my mind....... Certain players have no issue in getting a slot. ;);)

    I had my own suspicions as well, and maybe it does happen, but I think it is more the case that there is just really organised groups of golfers out there.

    I know of a bunch of golfers that attack as a herd... unlike your group who rotate the responsibility to one individual to book each week...these guys are all logging on and trying to book. All very organised too.

    Player A: 8:12 or if no joy straight to 8:36
    Player B: 8:20 or as above
    Player C: 8:28 or as above

    So they'll have 6 shots of getting their slot within seconds of it opening.
    As soon as someone gets in and assigns all names, then there is no chance of double booking and the herd retreat...it's a minefield out there.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,172 ✭✭✭BraveDonut


    Another thing to remember that may help is that players have a time in mind that they would like to play - Say 08:30 or 09:00. In my experience there will be more competition for these "round number" time slots.
    So, target the non round number times like 08:20 or 08:50.

    I also find that no matter how full the timesheet is after it initially opens, if you are patient, times will always open up.
    You may not get to play with your preferred 4-ball every week, but I find that this is good to get you out playing with people that you don't know, which is good for building club spirit.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 692 ✭✭✭Dtoffee


    If it was me, I would save a screenshot of the sheet each week and see if theres any changes ...... if the same players are going out at the same time each weeks its a total fiddle.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,511 ✭✭✭golfwallah


    Following up on Greebo's post about online payments in his club, this sounds like a good idea to me.

    I remember the feasibility of implementing the BRS "Competition Purse" module being discussed a few times on committee at our club, but like every new innovation, it takes a bit of time and effort to organise, communicate with members and make happen.

    That being said, it is feasible in BRS, provided the club can get someone to take it on, explain to members, etc., plus it results in big improvements in cash flow and no shows. The technical side is straight forward enough - the biggest piece of work would seem to be around bringing the members along with the idea.

    See following link to case study from BRS Site: http://www1.brsgolf.com/castlewarden.0.html


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,505 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    golfwallah wrote: »
    Following up on Greebo's post about online payments in his club, this sounds like a good idea to me.

    I remember the feasibility of implementing the BRS "Competition Purse" module being discussed a few times on committee at our club, but like every new innovation, it takes a bit of time and effort to organise, communicate with members and make happen.

    That being said, it is feasible in BRS, provided the club can get someone to take it on, explain to members, etc., plus it results in big improvements in cash flow and no shows. The technical side is straight forward enough - the biggest piece of work would seem to be around bringing the members along with the idea.

    See following link to case study from BRS Site: http://www1.brsgolf.com/castlewarden.0.html

    yep, it's all done through BRS, just turn up and print your card and it's all taken care of, no more rummaging for change, even the twos is part of it.

    @Dtoffee
    I play at pretty much the same time every week, 10:26 or so, my secret?
    be ready and waiting for the timesheet to come out, it's not rocket science tbh.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 644 ✭✭✭Arsenium


    GreeBo wrote: »
    yep, it's all done through BRS, just turn up and print your card and it's all taken care of, no more rummaging for change, even the twos is part of it.

    @Dtoffee
    I play at pretty much the same time every week, 10:26 or so, my secret?
    be ready and waiting for the timesheet to come out, it's not rocket science tbh.

    I think you have it there...be ready and waiting. Waiting until the time and then logging on wont bring you much joy.

    Be at the computer and logged in 5 mins before the competition opens and ready to refresh the page at just about the right time. You;'d need to be very unlucky not to get access to a timeslot.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 899 ✭✭✭thewobbler


    Arsenium wrote: »
    I think you have it there...be ready and waiting. Waiting until the time and then logging on wont bring you much joy.

    Be at the computer and logged in 5 mins before the competition opens and ready to refresh the page at just about the right time. You;'d need to be very unlucky not to get access to a timeslot.

    The BRS system is excellent. But like every system, it follows a series of rules, and some people are just better at understanding rules, and can make it work better. It's not exploitation so much as optimisation.

    Either way it's infinitely better than a paper time sheet.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 692 ✭✭✭Dtoffee


    GreeBo wrote: »
    @Dtoffee
    I play at pretty much the same time every week, 10:26 or so, my secret?
    be ready and waiting for the timesheet to come out, it's not rocket science tbh.

    I suggested a screen shot to see if the same players are going out at the same time each week ....... your comment is a cheap shot as you know I was referring to 'players' and yes we can all look to play at roughly the same time every week but it is suspicious if the sheet replicates week in week out with the same line up. Under normal circumstances randomers would appear and the regular bookers would move around by 15 mins depending on demand.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 346 ✭✭redhill


    golfwallah wrote: »
    Following up on Greebo's post about online payments in his club, this sounds like a good idea to me.

    I remember the feasibility of implementing the BRS "Competition Purse" module being discussed a few times on committee at our club, but like every new innovation, it takes a bit of time and effort to organise, communicate with members and make happen.

    That being said, it is feasible in BRS, provided the club can get someone to take it on, explain to members, etc., plus it results in big improvements in cash flow and no shows. The technical side is straight forward enough - the biggest piece of work would seem to be around bringing the members along with the idea.

    See following link to case study from BRS Site: http://www1.brsgolf.com/castlewarden.0.html


    The BRS Competition purse is the best way to solve this problem as it presently stands. From reading this thread i can't believe the lack of clubs that are not using it. Our club has had similar problems to nearly every complaint listed in this thread, but the Competition purse was initiated around 3-4 years ago and most of these problems are a thing of the past.
    As mentioned earlier it can take a bit of initial time to set up etc, members have to set up a "purse" (basically putting 20-30 quid into it). This purse then is used to pay for your weekly competition fee, its gets taken out of your account the week after the comp. As Greebo mentioned earlier if you don't show on the Sat/Sun then you still get the money deducted, we also brought in a rule that if you didn't take your name off timesheet by friday 1pm then you got billed.
    After some initial very minor problems this started to free up weekend times pretty well, though some never took their names off the timesheet and just forfeited the fee each week.... after 6 months they introduced another great rule, if your name was on sheet and you didn't show you firstly got a gentle reminder to remove name etc, 2nd offence and you had a one week ban from booking onto sheet, 3rd offence was a one month ban...needless to say this has freed up timesheet markedly and apart from maybe 2 weekends a year (Capts day etc) you could log onto BRS and book a slot for any period during the day, indeed complete 4 ball slots are regularly free and plenty of slots with 2/3 places free.
    At the AGM last year the club highlighed a few other benefits of the competion purse, can't remember them all, one was much better cash flow, so less bank charges, it has also increased income from competitions & a couple of others.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,505 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    Dtoffee wrote: »
    I suggested a screen shot to see if the same players are going out at the same time each week ....... your comment is a cheap shot as you know I was referring to 'players' and yes we can all look to play at roughly the same time every week but it is suspicious if the sheet replicates week in week out with the same line up. Under normal circumstances randomers would appear and the regular bookers would move around by 15 mins depending on demand.

    I stand by my comments.
    it's a club, pretty much the same people play at the same time every week.
    randomness comes from the few who don't care what time they play at.
    Other than that, same faces at the same time every week, it's the natural balance, same as when the timesheet was stuck to the wall


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 692 ✭✭✭Dtoffee


    GreeBo wrote: »
    I stand by my comments.
    it's a club, pretty much the same people play at the same time every week.
    randomness comes from the few who don't care what time they play at.
    Other than that, same faces at the same time every week, it's the natural balance, same as when the timesheet was stuck to the wall

    and I stand by my comment ..... it is suspicious if the sheet replicates week in week out with the same line up (and no randomers).

    We will leave it at that.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 431 ✭✭clickhere


    GreeBo wrote: »
    I stand by my comments.
    it's a club, pretty much the same people play at the same time every week.
    randomness comes from the few who don't care what time they play at.
    Other than that, same faces at the same time every week, it's the natural balance, same as when the timesheet was stuck to the wall

    Randomers can only play at the tee times that are left for them. I think that is a very good idea to take a screen shot over a couple weeks and see if a select group of people seem to be really lucky and get the same time every week. I don't believe someone joins a club and then decides, he doesn't care what time he plays at.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,505 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    clickhere wrote: »
    Randomers can only play at the tee times that are left for them. I think that is a very good idea to take a screen shot over a couple weeks and see if a select group of people seem to be really lucky and get the same time every week. I don't believe someone joins a club and then decides, he doesn't care what time he plays at.

    no, randomers wait until later in the week and put their names down at random times.

    there would be very little difference week to week on my timesheet, yet it opens at the exact same time for everyone.
    did occur to you that if everyone plays at the same time each week, then everyone is happy?
    maybe, just maybe this is the timesheet working perfectly in a club that has the correct amount of members...

    also your belief would be wrong, we have lots of members who don't particularly care what time they play at, I'm one of them.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 892 ✭✭✭Ben1977


    GreeBo wrote: »
    no, randomers wait until later in the week and put their names down at random times.

    there would be very little difference week to week on my timesheet, yet it opens at the exact same time for everyone.
    did occur to you that if everyone plays at the same time each week, then everyone is happy?
    maybe, just maybe this is the timesheet working perfectly in a club that has the correct amount of members...

    also your belief would be wrong, we have lots of members who don't particularly care what time they play at, I'm one of them.

    Have to agree with the above. Sheets are opened in our place the same time 7 days in advance. There is a group of 9 to 12 lads that play on a Sunday, they come in after their round and just say to the lads same time next week if available. It's generally opened 24hrs before they book.
    Randomers, like myself very rarely book when the sheet is opened.
    If I've got the go ahead for a game during the week, I'll book in then with whoever.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,000 ✭✭✭Russman


    GreeBo wrote: »
    I stand by my comments.
    it's a club, pretty much the same people play at the same time every week.
    randomness comes from the few who don't care what time they play at.
    Other than that, same faces at the same time every week, it's the natural balance, same as when the timesheet was stuck to the wall

    Absolutely, I could probably write down the first 5 or 6 lines on any of our Saturday and Sunday timesheets off the top of my head with almost 100% accuracy. Granted, there probably isn't a huge additional demand for slots at 7.30am but its always the same 15/20 guys playing in more or less the same groups, with the occasional randomer thrown in. They're accommodating too, nobody gets left without a game.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,905 ✭✭✭Macker1


    Managed to get a Tee Time this morning for this coming Sundays competition. Finger was over the mouse 1 minute prior to the 07:30am live booking start. Just as well because within the first minute all the 25 slots were booked. This means only 75 players can catered for which no doubt is going to lead to frustration.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,505 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    that's pretty bad, we have 2 x 34 on Saturdays. (two courses of 12 holes)
    you can also put your name down after this, but might have light issues.
    is there something else blocking the timesheet?
    do you have Sat competitions too?
    are the same people playing in both?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,905 ✭✭✭Macker1


    GreeBo wrote: »
    that's pretty bad, we have 2 x 34 on Saturdays. (two courses of 12 holes)
    you can also put your name down after this, but might have light issues.
    is there something else blocking the timesheet?
    do you have Sat competitions too?
    are the same people playing in both?

    There are separate Sat and Sun Comps, Not certain if many play on both days but some members may have the time to do so.

    Saturday has even less Tee Times available with 14 which caters for 42 men and 4 which caters for 12 women.

    After the competition Tee Times there are 8-9 Tee times which I imagine are for greenfee paying customers.

    Its my first year as a member playing during the winter so maybe this is the normal situation.

    Do other clubs have similar issues with the shorter days and if so what is or can be done to alleviate the issue


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,000 ✭✭✭Russman


    Macker1 wrote: »
    There are separate Sat and Sun Comps, Not certain if many play on both days but some members may have the time to do so.

    Saturday has even less Tee Times available with 14 which caters for 42 men and 4 which caters for 12 women.

    After the competition Tee Times there are 8-9 Tee times which I imagine are for greenfee paying customers.

    Its my first year as a member playing during the winter so maybe this is the normal situation.

    Do other clubs have similar issues with the shorter days and if so what is or can be done to alleviate the issue

    So, do the members not have "first call" as it were, on all weekend tee times ? There's blocks of time allocated for green fees ? Apologies if I've taken it up wrong.

    In my own club the only time a sheet for a weekend comp would have any time blocked out would be if we had a society looking for, say, an hour or two, which wouldn't happen that often tbh. Members would go ballistic if there were lines closed for green fees, especially on a Sat.


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