Match Thread: Ireland vs New Zealand, Sunday 24th Nov, Aviva Stadium, RTE2/BBCNI

molloyjh

Backs Against The Wall

So we're 2 games into this 3 game series and 2 games into the Joe Schmidt era. Week 1 saw Ireland cruise to victory over a weakened Samoa side that didn't provide the challenge many of us thought that they would. Week 2, however, saw Australia cruise to victory over an Irish side that didn't provide the challenge many of us thought that they would. A lot has been said over the last week; of the performance against Australia, the selection tactics of Joe Schmidt and the upcoming game this weekend. Few, if any, give Ireland any hope against a team looking to make history as the first team in the professional era to win every game in a calendar year.

In September 2010, when Joe Schmidt started his reign as Leinster coach, a lot was said too. Yet the players and coaching staff were all on message: great things are coming, just be patient. And great things came. This week the players and coaches of the Irish rugby team have been communicating a similar message. Players are on a learning curve, the way Joe wants us to play isn't second nature yet but once it is we'll be a side capable of beating anyone. Now this means that the performance probably won't be 100% this week again, but after last week the players themselves will have a point to prove.

But lest we forget there were actually positives from the game against Australia. Our attacking game with Sexton at out-half actually looked to be coming on. We made twice as many line breaks as the Aussies did. Our line-out was pretty solid and our discipline was very good.

Coming into this weekend we have a pack that, if they play to their potential, are a strong unit. And while our backs may lack a bit of spark and pace the majority of our back line is an experienced unit well used to playing together and under Joe Schmidt.

So how do Ireland go about winning this game? Because that's what I expect them to be trying to do. I'm sick of this inferiority complex we have when it comes to NZ. I'm sick of the awe in which we hold them that places them beyond our ability to beat. Every time we take the field we should be aiming to and believing that we can win. And our supporters should be expecting the same. First thing is first, we need to front up up front. Challenge them at the breakdown and employ a rush defense to stop them getting any time or space on the ball. Keep it tight, hold onto the ball when we have it and frustrate the hell out of them. This doesn't have to be pretty and with our lack of pace it probably can't be.

I could go into the NZ team. I could talk about all their strengths and about the challenge that faces the Irish team on Sunday. But so many other people are spending so much time fawning over them and paying them so much respect that I'm not going to (sorry ex-pat Kiwis!). This is sport. Any team can win on any given day. And if Ireland give it their all and if the game plan is right this side can win on Sunday. And right now there aren't enough people stressing that. I'll be there on Sunday afternoon screaming the lads on and I'll be expecting them to go out and win this game.

COME ON IRELAND!

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15: Rob Kearney|15: Israel Dagg
14: Tommy Bowe|14: Cory Jane
13: Brian O'Driscoll|13: Ben Smith
12: Gordon D'Arcy|12: Ma'a Nonu
11: Dave Kearney|11: Julian Savea
10: Jonathan Sexton|10: Aaron Cruden
9: Conor Murray|9: Aaron Smith
|
1: Cian Healy|1: Wyatt Crockett
2: Rory Best|2: Andrew Hore
3: Mike Ross|3: Charlie Faumuina
4: Devin Toner|4: Luke Romano
5: Paul O'Connell CAPTAIN|5: Sam Whitelock
6: Peter O'Mahony|6: Steven Luatua
7: Sean O'Brien|7: Richie McCaw CAPTAIN
8: Jamie Heaslip|8: Kieran Read
|
16: Sean Cronin|16: Dane Coles
17: Jack McGrath|17: Ben Franks
18: Declan Fitzpatrick|18: Owen Franks
19: Mike McCarthy|19: Brodie Retallick
20: Kevin McLaughlin|20: Sam Cane
21: Isaac Boss|21: TJ Perenara
22: Ian Madigan|22: Beauden Barrett
23: Luke Fitzgerald|23: Ryan Crotty

Howard Juneau

Well done on the write up.
Fully expect a thumping on Sunday, not at all enthused about our backline. Hopefully the scrum stands up a little better than Saturdays game

molloyjh

Howard Juneau wrote: »

Well done on the write up.
Fully expect a thumping on Sunday, not at all enthused about our backline. Hopefully the scrum stands up a little better than Saturdays game

Didn't have the rousing effect I was going for then no?

former legend

molloyjh wrote: »

I could go into the NZ team. I could talk about all their strengths and about the challenge that faces the Irish team on Sunday. But so many other people are spending so much time fawning over them and paying them so much respect that I'm not going to (sorry ex-pat Kiwis!). This is sport. Any team can win on any given day. And if Ireland give it their all and if the game plan is right this side can win on Sunday.

Rule #1 of the Internet; you can't write something like that and not stick this clip in:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WO4tIrjBDkk

Howard Juneau

molloyjh wrote: »

Didn't have the rousing effect I was going for then no?

Did you bring the ky jelly? We're going to need it

molloyjh

Howard Juneau wrote: »

Did you bring the ky jelly? We're going to need it

No means no Howard. Seriously.

ScissorPaperRock

Howard Juneau wrote: »

Did you bring the ky jelly? We're going to need it

Do you mean because we're going to get f***** on Sunday? Or because you misread 'rousing' as 'arousing'?

ConFurioso

molloyjh wrote: »

Didn't have the rousing effect I was going for then no?

You had me with the table.

Bajee

Healy's "I hate the haka" comments totally inappropriate

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/i-hate-the-haka-healy-29777766.html

Not the brightest of boys - he's setting himself up for a bad smashing

sydthebeat

What I want to see:

Agressive destructive play by ALL our players at the breakdown
Control over bodies committed to breakdown but no free passes either.
Controlled tempo, slow when we need to reform, quick when the numbers suit us.
Very fast blitz defense in most cases
Heaslip to carry more
Box kicks down the tram lines and not into own field, with realistic chasers.
Inventiveness at 10 and 12 to get the abs turned and running back to their own line.
Steady scrum
Solid lineouts
Clean line breaks based on invention


What I dont want to see:
Missed first up tackles
Individual unforced handling errors
Broken back line defense
One out passes to static carriers
Shovelling to wings resulting in lost ground or touch.



If this happens I won't give a feck what the score is.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

Bajee wrote: »

Healy's "I hate the haka" comments totally inappropriate

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/i-hate-the-haka-healy-29777766.html

Not the brightest of boys - he's setting himself up for a bad smashing

Nothing wrong with what he said, if you listen to the audio of the interview you'll find there's nothing in it

Bajee

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

Nothing wrong with what he said, if you listen to the audio of the interview you'll find there's nothing in it

That's your opinion. I did listen and there is not "nothing in it"

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

Bajee wrote: »

That's your opinion. I did listen and there is not "nothing in it"

what is wrong with what he said?

Davei141

If you don't fawn over everything All Black related it is always deemed inappropriate. The guy doesn't like the Haka he is entitled to his opinion.

toomevara

So now, not only are we not allowed demonstrate any response to that illustrates a smidgeon of dislike/disrespect for the Haka, but you're not allowed say or think it either….bloody hell…this is novel…1984 type novel….

ScissorPaperRock

He probably could have been a bit more diplomatic, to be honest, given that it represents a country's tradition and history. The word 'hate' is quite strong.

But... meh.

Bajee

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

what is wrong with what he said?

Did you listen to it?

accidentprone1

Bajee wrote: »

Healy's "I hate the haka" comments totally inappropriate

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/i-hate-the-haka-healy-29777766.html

Not the brightest of boys - he's setting himself up for a bad smashing

"Totally innappropriate"?

He's entitled to his opinion - he hasn't insulted it, called it a silly dance, or said they look stupid doing it. He's just expressed his personal dislike of it.

Why do we always need to tiptoe around the haka? It's a war dance. It's the completely fecking opposite of tiptoes.

RoundBox11

I dont like the haka either. I think its amateur. I dont like the way other teams roll over about it when the all blacks throw in the heritage excuse. Most of the NZ players aren't even Maori anyway.

Most of all i hate the fact that other teams are forced to stand on the 10 metre line. They should be let respond how they want (obviously within reason). They should be at the very least allowed to approach the half way line. If its deemed to be unacceptably aggressive, then people need to realise that the haka isn't for entertainment, its there to intimidate and rile up the all blacks

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

Bajee wrote: »

Did you listen to it?

yes, and had no issue with it. You seem to have, so why can't you say what's wrong with it?

RoundBox11

Also, I hope rte bring tissues cos Ryle Nugent will be creaming himself at every all black move

Bajee

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

yes, and had no issue with it. You seem to have, so why can't you say what's wrong with it?

Yes I have as it was a highly disrespectful comment

RoundBox11

Bajee wrote: »

Yes I have as it was a highly disrespectful comment

Don't be so precious

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

Bajee wrote: »

Yes I have as it was a highly disrespectful comment

pretty precious. "Highly disrespectful" would be saying it's a joke or saying something about how it's not significant to half the players doing it

I think you're just looking for something to be offended by

Bajee

RoundBox11 wrote: »

Don't be so precious

Yeah well lets see how precious Healy and the rest of the fromt row ends up in the scrum today

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

Bajee wrote: »

Yeah well lets see how precious Healy and the rest of the fromt row ends up in the scrum today

but sure that will have nothing to do with what Healy was saying

.ak

Enough of the sniping everyone, and enough of the pot-stirring Bajee.

.ak

I actually like the haka. I think it's developed into a very cool bit of theatre that represents what all is good about maori and NZ rugby - controlled aggression and challenge. It is ofcourse completely commercial but I don't mind that - I don't think that's no bad thing when the game is still in it's professional infancy.

What I do hate is the way people have to be so careful about it - what they do, what they say. If they're allowed do the Haka then that's fine, the other team should be allowed do what they want - if that's walk up to it then fine, or walk away and do their warm up, fine, or even do their own thing whatever, heck I even think the home team should be the one that allows them to do the haka, like opening a roof or other prematch requests.

Howard Juneau

I have a problem with the haka in so much as it's a near taboo subject to criticise.
Having the AB's do their little booty shake on foreign soil at Landsdowne rd should be at the IRFU's request.
It should not be an unchallengeable right of the AB's to do so wherever they go imo

The Pheasant2

Well done on the excellent write up; if anything I just hope we go out there on Sunday and acquit ourselves well - we don't even need to win, but just play like the tier one nation we are and do it with some fire and intensity. That's one aspect I felt we lacked against Australia; the lads just didn't seem hungry enough for the win.

Maybe with this aura of invincibility surrounding the All Blacks the lads might be going into this feeling as if they can't win. We need to forget about all that - if we can bring the fight to them, maybe rattle them a little bit and show them what we can do, even without winning; I'll walk away from Lansdowne road content.

Swiwi.

molloyjh wrote: »

I could go into the NZ team. I'm not going to (sorry ex-pat Kiwis!).

That is the sorriest lame-ass excuse I have ever read for not previewing the opposition. I expect the ex-pat Kiwis on this forum living in Ireland to rise up en masse in protest...wait, that's me!

My form of protest will be to humbly wish everyone on this forum (Klunk_NZ +/- JD - who should be in my camp - excepted) the best of luck for tomorrow. I'm not going to lie and say I hope Ireland win, but a part of me wouldn't mind too much...good luck lads!

leonard7

poor write up

Swiwi.

Oh, and about Healy & the Haka, I don't think the Maoris in the team could care less whether he loves or loathes it - but I would expect them to expect that Healy respects it - if the camera pans to Healy giving the haka a moon, that might not go down so well...

Swiwi.

leonard7 wrote: »

poor write up

On a forum that must have at least 100 regular posters, and many more casual users, only about 3 or 4 of us take the time to preview games...so rather than give out, why not add yourself to the list of match previewers. Just saying.

Journeyman_1

I'm starting to really look forward to this now. It doesn't matter if this team has under-performed, or even 'let us down' in the past, we have to believe they can beat the world because they're OUR team, and we have got to support them through thick and thin, good times and bad! That is what international rugby is all about!

We CAN do this...

COME ON IRELAND!!!!

bilston

leonard7 wrote: »

poor write up

Is that your way of offering yourself to do the Six Nations opener in Feb?!

i love the haka always have and always will. i think the dislike at the moment is due the the irbs insistence on teams standing and watching it some great rugby moments have been anderson or chabal standing up to it or campese ignoring it, in my opinion it all adds to the emotion of a game.

in short the irb have ruined the haka and a lot of kiwis i know are pretty pissed off that you cant stand up to it any more they love when teams do that.

hate the build up to all black games theres always that hope we can win but its battling a fear that we get hammered by 60 also they tend to be sidetracked with crap about the haka. just start already:mad::D

Judgement Day

I'm starting to really look forward to it too despite the boys underperforming against France and England. Cian Healy reap the whirlwind!

chupacabra

The Haka should only be performed at home games. I do like it though.

Klunk_NZ

toomevara wrote: »

So now, not only are we not allowed demonstrate any response to that illustrates a smidgeon of dislike/disrespect for the Haka, but you're not allowed say or think it either….bloody hell…this is novel…1984 type novel….

I personally don't care what Healy says about the Haka, he's still gonna be on the end of a drubbing.

leonard7

bilston wrote: »

Is that your way of offering yourself to do the Six Nations opener in Feb?!

yep ireland scotland it is

its_phil

I agree with everything Healy says, although hate would be too strong a word. I love the Haka and it is a great part of rugby tradition. It should always be part of rugby. But it is protected far too greatly by the IRB. Why shouldn't a team be allowed to approach it, if it's suppose to be a challenge why can't teams directly face it.

You can't keep putting them on this impossible pedestal if we are ever to beat them and I'm beating the Matt Williams drum of "call them bloody New Zealand". I'm not saying we'll beat them tomorrow, but if we want to do it one day we can't keep them on this pedestal.

But I still don't think it was smart by Healy, as my old coach said "don't ever give someone a reason to pull harder".

Buer

.ak wrote: »

I actually like the haka.

So do I. It reminds me of going clubbing down the wesht. A group of lads who are big fish in a small pond make tits of themselves dancing around while everyone else drinks and watches. Then everyone listens to the national anthem. Then there are a few good scraps and we all go home.

Artful_Badger

Jackmans Analysis: Four key areas for Ireland.

chupacabra

Mahatma Geansai

Awful goatee on Healy. Is Fitz the only Irish lad taking part in Movember this year?

Hagz

Mahatma Geansai wrote: »

Awful goatee on Healy. Is Fitz the only Irish lad taking part in Movember this year?

No. Jack McGrath is trying his best, Jordi Murphy and Jordan Coghlan too.

ScissorPaperRock

Hagz wrote: »

No. Jack McGrath is trying his best

Ah bless :P

astonaidan

I love the haka, was about 12 with no interest in rugby when Dad told me to watch this, ever since then Ive been into rugby and a big part of the reason the first game Im going to watch will be against the all blacks tomorrow

JAMMYK

.ak wrote: »

I actually like the haka. I think it's developed into a very cool bit of theatre that represents what all is good about maori and NZ rugby - controlled aggression and challenge. It is ofcourse completely commercial but I don't mind that - I don't think that's no bad thing when the game is still in it's professional infancy.

What I do hate is the way people have to be so careful about it - what they do, what they say. If they're allowed do the Haka then that's fine, the other team should be allowed do what they want - if that's walk up to it then fine, or walk away and do their warm up, fine, or even do their own thing whatever, heck I even think the home team should be the one that allows them to do the haka, like opening a roof or other prematch requests.

Howard Juneau wrote: »

I have a problem with the haka in so much as it's a near taboo subject to criticise.
Having the AB's do their little booty shake on foreign soil at Landsdowne rd should be at the IRFU's request.
It should not be an unchallengeable right of the AB's to do so wherever they go imo

Swiwi. wrote: »

Oh, and about Healy & the Haka, I don't think the Maoris in the team could care less whether he loves or loathes it - but I would expect them to expect that Healy respects it - if the camera pans to Healy giving the haka a moon, that might not go down so well...

Barbara Short Creature wrote: »

i love the haka always have and always will. i think the dislike at the moment is due the the irbs insistence on teams standing and watching it some great rugby moments have been anderson or chabal standing up to it or campese ignoring it, in my opinion it all adds to the emotion of a game.

in short the irb have ruined the haka and a lot of kiwis i know are pretty pissed off that you cant stand up to it any more they love when teams do that.

hate the build up to all black games theres always that hope we can win but its battling a fear that we get hammered by 60 also they tend to be sidetracked with crap about the haka. just start already:mad::D

chupacabra wrote: »

The Haka should only be performed at home games. I do like it though.

Why doesn't anyone have a problem with Fiji,Tonga,Samoa doing their respective dances?
I always find it curious in this discussion that they never get brought up.
Tonga did a throat slitting gesture during sivi tau last night- no ire or bile on any rugby internet forum that i frequent.

Is it the Haka or the subsequent 20 point hiding that usually follows New Zealands one that is the real problem?

How come wales don't stand still for an eternity after the Pacific Islanders do theirs?
How come France don't form a big French Tricolour arm in arm or an arrow pointing at the opposition ala Cardiff 07 the RWC final against the pacific islanders?

The IRB's rule actually makes sense because once all the novelty responses wear out you just end up with incidents like this as teams get too close.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wakoZWSgXLY

I am led to believe the mandated distance between teams etc applies to all "war dances" too not just NZ's.



As for tomorrows game.

NZ by 15 sans lube.

Tox56

Hagz wrote: »

No. Jack McGrath is trying his best, Jordi Murphy and Jordan Coghlan too.

Indeed

http://www.sportsfile.com/id/811538/