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Radical Solutions to Protect Cyclists

  • 21-11-2013 08:30AM
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,296 ✭✭✭✭


    Article from the Beeb in the wake of the recent deaths of cyclists in London.

    Eight solutions - admittedly radical are proposed - to help protect cyclists in London, but could probably apply to most urban environment. The eight are.....
    1. Bicycle licences and even number plates
    2. Ban vehicles [lorries] from city centres
    3. Allow cyclists to jump red lights
    4. Cycle on pavements
    5. Ban headphones
    6. Body armour
    7. Elevated cycling routes
    8. Scrap traffic lights and road signs altogether

    Some are impractical (1), some questionable (4,5 & 6), one is probable uneconomical on anything other than a small scale (7), others need a lot of work to be practical long term (2 and 8) - but I reckon 3 had potential.


«1

Comments

  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,277 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    If most of the deaths involved lorries and buses, I think any measures should be focussed on that.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭RayCun


    Allowing cyclists to turn left on red (or go straight on red in some junctions) could work, but you have to take pedestrian crossings into account.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,639 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    RayCun wrote: »
    Allowing cyclists to turn left on red (or go straight on red in some junctions) could work, but you have to take pedestrian crossings into account.

    allowing everyone to do it would make more sense.
    4. Cycle on pavements
    maybe a little safer for cyclists but hugely more dangerous for pedestrians
    8. Scrap traffic lights and road signs altogether

    if that an actual serious suggestion I'd follow it with this:
    9. Ban cars, buses, trucks and bikes altogether; get the tube or walk.
    :pac:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,353 ✭✭✭✭jimmycrackcorm


    No. 3 should be allow cyclists behave like pedestrians.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭RayCun


    allowing everyone to do it would make more sense.

    so when do pedestrians cross?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,479 ✭✭✭rollingscone


    Mandatory fitness tests to drive vehicles in the city, should reduce driver numbers by about 90%


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,419 ✭✭✭NeedMoreGears


    I'd like to see more emphasis on the near miss events. It seems to me that a near miss is not generally regarded as a bad thing ; a "no harm no foul" attitude appears to be prevalent. Perhaps there should be some form of sanctions for stupid behaviour that could have led to serious outcomes but didn't

    We already have similar sanctions for speeding - even though in the vast majority of cases no harm has come from people speeding. Society has clearly decided that although speeding does not result in an injury every time someone speeds, the chance of a bad outcome is sufficiently high to warrant the imposition of speed limits backed up by sanctions and reasonably significant enforcement resources.

    Why not the same for close passes, undertaking a turning vehicle etc etc


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,995 ✭✭✭✭blorg


    The idea with getting rid of traffic lights and road signs is that it removes the concept of right of way and forces people to pay more attention to what they are doing rather than just breezing through "because I have right of way." It can be effective on smaller streets.

    See shared space which is a related concept: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shared_space


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,995 ✭✭✭✭blorg


    RayCun wrote: »
    so when do pedestrians cross?

    When there isn't anyone turning left? I think in most jurisdictions that allow it drivers are meant to yield to pedestrians anyway. Honestly many countries allow this, including the one I'm in at the moment (Thailand) and it helps traffic flow without causing any major problems.


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 22,976 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    blorg wrote: »
    When there isn't anyone turning left? I think in most jurisdictions that allow it drivers are meant to yield to pedestrians anyway. Honestly many countries allow this, including the one I'm in at the moment (Thailand) and it helps traffic flow without causing any major problems.

    Right on red seems to be pretty standard in North America, apart from Montreal. Montreal is populated by the worst drivers I've ever encountered.

    When turning right on red, the rule is that you come to a complete stop at the light, treating it like a stop sign and then turn. Always giving way to pedestrians.
    In Arizona, you gave way to a pedestrian who was half way or nearer crossing the road. It works extremely well.

    Left on red in Ireland is a no brainer to me.

    they/them/theirs


    The more you can increase fear of drugs and crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.

    Noam Chomsky



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,712 ✭✭✭Hrududu


    Brian? wrote: »
    Right on red seems to be pretty standard in North America, apart from Montreal. Montreal is populated by the worst drivers I've ever encountered.

    When turning right on red, the rule is that you come to a complete stop at the light, treating it like a stop sign and then turn. Always giving way to pedestrians.
    In Arizona, you gave way to a pedestrian who was half way or nearer crossing the road. It works extremely well.

    Left on red in Ireland is a no brainer to me.
    I was just going to say this. They turn right on red in the states but the pedestrian has right of way. They stop on the red light and proceed if the way is clear. Which would make a lot of sense to me


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,029 ✭✭✭John_C


    They've got something similar in Melbourne (& presumably the rest of Oz). Pedestrians have right of way over turning vehicles at all junctions. Where there are lights, this means that pedestrians can get a green man to cross but cars can still make a turn, once they yield to the pedestrians.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,038 ✭✭✭kuro_man


    CEMEX have fitted near-side proximity sensors down the sides of their lorries, which will pick up any movement along the left-hand side of the vehicle. When it detects movement, a warning bleeping sound is emitted to alert the cyclist and an audible warning repeatedly alerts: “Caution. Truck turning.” As well, there is signage along the sides and rear of the vehicle: “Caution when coming up left of the vehicle.” A front blind-side mirror enables the driver to see cyclists and pedestrians directly at the front of the cab.
    Up to 2004, at least one person a year was either killed or suffered life-changing injuries from collisions with CEMEX trucks. Since then, with the safety features installed, there have been no deaths or injuries.

    http://citizenactionmonitor.wordpress.com/2010/08/25/cycling-death-uk-mom-takes-on-global-giant-and-wins/


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,604 ✭✭✭petethedrummer


    8. Scrap traffic lights and road signs altogether

    This gets my vote. They should start by making all traffic lights flashing amber between the hours of 19:00 and 07:00.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 15,826 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    8. Scrap traffic lights and road signs altogether

    This gets my vote. They should start by making all traffic lights flashing amber between the hours of 19:00 and 07:00.

    1900 is too early, 2100 maybe. Put main roads onto permanent green and side roads on flashing amber so normal priority/yield rules apply.

    Or just turn them all off - traffic lights help traffic flow for only about 20% of the day, the rest of the time they make it worse.

    I'd be in favour of cyclists treating red-lights as "Yield" (maybe not at crossroads, but in most other circumstances). Bikes aren't cars or trucks, there should be more recognition of this in the ROTR which are generally written with motorised vehicle in mind.

    Put your money where yer mouth is... Subscribe and Save Boards!

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 827 ✭✭✭disco1


    No 7 would only work... But the cost would mean it s a non runner.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 186 ✭✭browsing


    disco1 wrote: »
    No 7 would only work... But the cost would mean it s a non runner.
    Ok, Ok, I get it!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,491 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    1. Bicycle licences and even number plates
    2. Ban vehicles [lorries] from city centres
    3. Allow cyclists to jump red lights
    4. Cycle on pavements
    5. Ban headphones
    6. Body armour
    7. Elevated cycling routes
    8. Scrap traffic lights and road signs altogether

    Funny! :D

    1. What a joke, another barrier to getting people cycling!
    Gard: "Excuse me Sir, may I see your bicycle licence?
    Kid: But I'm only 6yrs old

    2. Already pretty much done in Dublin.

    3. Pavements and cycle lanes are all the one in Ireland it seems! :D

    4. Might be a case for this, though is having one earphone in any worse than a thumping car stereo or someone on a "hands-free" mobile phone kit in terms of distraction?

    5. Body Armour... :eek: :rolleyes: your having a laugh!?

    6. Elevated cycling routes... Sure, so long as they are beside main routes and not on some backroad/street in order just to move cyclists away from "delaying cars"

    7. I was going to say have bicycle specific lights.. but looking at the Grand Canal route i think it would just add more confusion at junctions/pedestrian crossings?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,129 ✭✭✭daragh_


    7. Elevated cycling routes

    That's more of a Shelbyville idea.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,338 ✭✭✭Lusk_Doyle


    Brian? wrote: »
    Right on red seems to be pretty standard in North America, apart from Montreal. Montreal is populated by the worst drivers I've ever encountered.

    When turning right on red, the rule is that you come to a complete stop at the light, treating it like a stop sign and then turn. Always giving way to pedestrians.
    In Arizona, you gave way to a pedestrian who was half way or nearer crossing the road. It works extremely well.

    Left on red in Ireland is a no brainer to me.

    That's the gasoline industry lobby at it's most effective to keep you sitting that little bit longer with the engine ticking over!


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,338 ✭✭✭Lusk_Doyle


    browsing wrote: »
    Ok, Ok, I get it!

    The man clearly has a stutter or a serious case of OCD! :pac:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 338 ✭✭Budawanny


    What numpty suggested body armour.
    there is no material no to mankind or any other species kind that will protect you against 80 tons of lorry.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,338 ✭✭✭Lusk_Doyle


    Budawanny wrote: »
    What numpty suggested body armour.
    there is no material no to mankind or any other species kind that will protect you against 80 tons of lorry.

    Wanna bet?

    6034073


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 338 ✭✭Budawanny


    Lusk_Doyle wrote: »
    Wanna bet?

    6034073

    if its anything like that link then yeah , ill take that bet


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,338 ✭✭✭Lusk_Doyle


    Budawanny wrote: »
    if its anything like that link then yeah , ill take that bet

    What's wrong with the link?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 338 ✭✭Budawanny


    it appears to be broken.. and im curious as to what this yoke could be!
    specifically "Invalid Attachment specified. If you followed a valid link, please notify the administrator"


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,338 ✭✭✭Lusk_Doyle


    Budawanny wrote: »
    it appears to be broken..
    specifically "Invalid Attachment specified. If you followed a valid link, please notify the administrator"

    Strange. I can see the photo. Here it is again anyway.

    281347.jpg


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 338 ✭✭Budawanny


    Lusk_Doyle wrote: »
    Strange. I can see the photo. Here it is again anyway.

    281347.jpg

    hahhaha. hate when im wrong.!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 284 ✭✭Puggy


    Option 2 exists in London already. The problem is its a night time ban, so the solution is to allow trucks at night, but not in rush hour.

    Someone already mentioned the Cemex example, which resulted from a campaign by a lady who's daughter was killed in an accident. That's an example of a forward looking company.

    Turn left on red needs to be implemented, once cyclists understand pedestrians would still gave right of way.


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,352 ✭✭✭gallag


    Cyclists to take more responsibility, stop pretending that they are in team sky and slow down, it's not a race and that applies to cars/vans also I.e waiting to safely overtake bikers, if cars can wait do cyclists really need to be undertaking lorry's? I know this won't be popular but it's a solution that does not get mentioned, a lot of cyclists get the racing skins on and treat their journey to work like a personal time trail putting all road users at risk.


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