Bvd expensive

kay 9

What ye doing with bvd positive animals folks? Rang could factories and they ain't taking them. 1st calver and her calf both went down. Quoted 120 by animal collector to take them.. In hard times I find this Rediculous. I have the means to shoot and bury myself. What are the consequences? Thanks...

whelan1

Not being smart but the 120 could work out cheap if the disease is gone

mahoney_j

Question id ask why wasn't the ainmAl gotten rid of once it tested positive.by keeping the ainmAl this length it could and proably has infected others.it has also cost u a lot to get it to this stage only for end result to be same.farmers should be forced to cull immediately any positive ainmAl.if not how will we ever be Bvd free.

mahoney_j

Question id ask why wasn't the ainmAl gotten rid of once it tested positive.by keeping the ainmAl this length it could and proably has infected others.it has also cost u a lot to get it to this stage only for end result to be same.farmers should be forced to cull immediately any positive ainmAl.if not how will we ever be Bvd free.

towzer2010

kay 9 wrote: »

What ye doing with bvd positive animals folks? Rang could factories and they ain't taking them. 1st calver and her calf both went down. Quoted 120 by animal collector to take them.. In hard times I find this Rediculous. I have the means to shoot and bury myself. What are the consequences? Thanks...

Why do you find it ridiculous?

I'll tell you my experience. I bought 10 heifers for bulling in 2010 to build up the herd. Things started going wrong from the start. Fertility in the herd went way down. Three of my own heifers aborted and of the 10 I bought I only have one left plus 8 of my own heifers culled plus 5 calves sent to the knackery. This was before BVD was talked about much and it took a year to diagnose and another year to clear it out of the herd. Net result is a hell of a lot worse than €120 I can tell you.

Get rid of them and forget about shooting and burying them as that is what would be ridiculous

mahoney_j

towzer2010 wrote: »

Why do you find it ridiculous?

I'll tell you my experience. I bought 10 heifers for bulling in 2010 to build up the herd. Things started going wrong from the start. Fertility in the herd went way down. Three of my own heifers aborted and of the 10 I bought I only have one left plus 8 of my own heifers culled plus 5 calves sent to the knackery. This was before BVD was talked about much and it took a year to diagnose and another year to clear it out of the herd. Net result is a hell of a lot worse than €120 I can tell you.

Get rid of them and forget about shooting and burying them as that is what would be ridiculous

Sounds harsh but100% correct

mahoney_j

towzer2010 wrote: »

Why do you find it ridiculous?

I'll tell you my experience. I bought 10 heifers for bulling in 2010 to build up the herd. Things started going wrong from the start. Fertility in the herd went way down. Three of my own heifers aborted and of the 10 I bought I only have one left plus 8 of my own heifers culled plus 5 calves sent to the knackery. This was before BVD was talked about much and it took a year to diagnose and another year to clear it out of the herd. Net result is a hell of a lot worse than €120 I can tell you.

Get rid of them and forget about shooting and burying them as that is what would be ridiculous

Sounds harsh but100% correct

jersey101

I was at the johnes meeting two weeks ago and they went through the ahi programme first and when they got to bvd one lad piped up and said he kept a bvd animal and put it with his heifers to give them immunity. The vet talking about it nearly chopped his head off for doing it.
Whats the point of going to all the trouble of testing for the disease and then doing that.

moy83

Will the factory not take the cow if she is fit ?
We have an eight month old blue bull weanling here that the father wont get rid of ! Tested positive 3 times . I had them seperate all along but he is after putting them in the shed yesterday with cows and calfs .
He sent me Robin Talbots article from the indo last week and his take was that talbot was going to keep his positive calf , I read it differently though .
If its going to work all the positives have to go asap but unfortunately there are heaps of people like my old lad that just wont do it

hugo29

moy83 wrote: »

Will the factory not take the cow if she is fit ?
We have an eight month old blue bull weanling here that the father wont get rid of ! Tested positive 3 times . I had them seperate all along but he is after putting them in the shed yesterday with cows and calfs .
He sent me Robin Talbots article from the indo last week and his take was that talbot was going to keep his positive calf , I read it differently though .
If its going to work all the positives have to go asap but unfortunately there are heaps of people like my old lad that just wont do it

moy, if i was you id have that calf out of that shed ASAP,

grassroot1

kay 9 wrote: »

What ye doing with bvd positive animals folks? Rang could factories and they ain't taking them. 1st calver and her calf both went down. Quoted 120 by animal collector to take them.. In hard times I find this Rediculous. I have the means to shoot and bury myself. What are the consequences? Thanks...

I cannot see what a factory will not take them. You are not allowed to kill and bury on your own land any more and I would be surprised if you do not have more positives Sorry:(

towzer2010

moy83 wrote: »

Will the factory not take the cow if she is fit ?
We have an eight month old blue bull weanling here that the father wont get rid of ! Tested positive 3 times . I had them seperate all along but he is after putting them in the shed yesterday with cows and calfs .
He sent me Robin Talbots article from the indo last week and his take was that talbot was going to keep his positive calf , I read it differently though .
If its going to work all the positives have to go asap but unfortunately there are heaps of people like my old lad that just wont do it

I managed to get 4 of mine into the factory through an agent but as I said this was early days.

On keeping the calf my vet advised that while you may immunise your herd to some extent the pi continually sheds the virus which forces all the other animals to fight off the infection and while they may not get BVD it leaves them open to other diseases like pneumonia. Also there is a much higher incidence of abortion and reduced fertility in the herd overall. I experienced all of the above and its not worth it. Unfortunately I wasn't aware they were PI's and for the life of me I cant understand if you know you have one why you'd keep one.

bbam

Some people just won't accept the information on BVD and think they can do better.
I know one lad who bought in heifers this time last year. One got sicker and the vet eventually tested for BVD and it was a PI.
He decided to keep it on and for a while kept it seperate bit for handiness it ended up with the rest. He had lots of problems with sickness and the vet eventually convinced him to loose the PI.
Things have improved since but other than the cost of the PI the thrive had been ruined in the rest of the bunch. He sold them off grass in September but reckoned the PI had ruined them as she was with them from Oct to May.

moy83

hugo29 wrote: »

moy, if i was you id have that calf out of that shed ASAP,

At the moment I wouldnt be bothered if every cow in the shed aborted , I bulled feck all this year and sold a good few of mine over the past couple of months . If he is smarter than ahi let him off and prove them wrong if he is able . He bulled a cow there the last evening that has been calved at least 18 months , I wonder why she hasnt come bulling till now ????
Of the few I have left some are out and the others are in a different shed .

Damo810

BVD is immunosuppressive, once they get it their immunity to other diseases is weakened so it's a slippery slope.

Do people on here vaccinate for it? Or test new animals that enter the herd? How much per head is it to test?

mahoney_j

Damo810 wrote: »

BVD is immunosuppressive, once they get it their immunity to other diseases is weakened so it's a slippery slope.

Do people on here vaccinate for it? Or test new animals that enter the herd? How much per head is it to test?

Dairy herd here vaccinating for about 10 years,screening milk for it 4 times. A year(virus once per year) and heading for year 3 of testing calves.no pi calves and no virus in milk.will continue vaccinating as I don't know what's outside the ditch or what birds are carrying.am also signed up for johnes.all cows vaccinated for lepto ,salmonella and Ibr as well and calves done at 3 days old for pneumonia.might seem excessive to some but my vet bills are practically nill for visits to sick stock.i work on the theory that prevention is better than cure.vaccines may seem dear but loss of stock,sick ainmsls and big vet bills work out a lot dearer in long term

kay 9

whelan1 wrote: »

Not being smart but the 120 could work out cheap if the disease is gone

Agree whelan but 120 to me right now is alot of money that I genuinely can't afford . Going to get the knackery to blow their heads off and hope it's the last of it. No wonder farming has such a high suicide rate these times. What's it all about. Slogging for nothing.

jersey101

kay 9 wrote: »

Agree whelan but 120 to me right now is alot of money that I genuinely can't afford . Going to get the knackery to blow their heads off and hope it's the last of it. No wonder farming has such a high suicide rate these times. What's it all about. Slogging for nothing.

ah dont worry about it man the knackery used to be great friends with us. Be in here two out of every 4 weeks in the month for a good while. They were dark days but the future looks good

whelan1

kay 9 wrote: »

Agree whelan but 120 to me right now is alot of money that I genuinely can't afford . Going to get the knackery to blow their heads off and hope it's the last of it. No wonder farming has such a high suicide rate these times. What's it all about. Slogging for nothing.

i know, but at the end of the day for the bvd scheme to work we all have to 100% behind it, we had to get rid of a pb angus bull calf last year to knackery as it tested positive, we have had no more positives since

Zr105

I dont understand why the factory wouldn't take the cow tho, there shouldn't be a problem... Id ring another factory to see. But definitly get rid of both ASAP

greysides

Zr105 wrote: »

I dont understand why the factory wouldn't take the cow tho, there shouldn't be a problem... Id ring another factory to see. But definitly get rid of both ASAP

I don't either. No human health concerns so no need to mention the BVD status.

moy83

kay 9 wrote: »

Agree whelan but 120 to me right now is alot of money that I genuinely can't afford . Going to get the knackery to blow their heads off and hope it's the last of it. No wonder farming has such a high suicide rate these times. What's it all about. Slogging for nothing.

Any amount of money is hard to afford when you cant get it kay . If I was you I would sell off something else to cover the cost of the knackery and hopefully have a few quid left over that would be nice before the christmas .
Slogging for nothing is bad enough without these unexpected surprises but dont let it get you down .

whelan1

Zr105 wrote: »

I dont understand why the factory wouldn't take the cow tho, there shouldn't be a problem... Id ring another factory to see. But definitly get rid of both ASAP

try another factory

Farmer Pudsey

This is the problem with the BVD scheme. From the start if you had a positive you should have had to get rid of it, test the mother and bull before you could have moved anything from the farm or buy anything in. Heard of a couple fellas that were going keeping calves had the devils of a job trying to get an in-law to get 4 calves done away with.

This is the big issue with anything like this in Ireland any bit of leeway is a disaster. I know it is hard but the cost of these things is horrendous. It cost in the dairy herd, suckler herd and finishers. Everybody loses. I know it was particularly hard on some suckler farmers but if we stay with the plan we may get rid of the disease.

Zr105

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

This is the problem with the BVD scheme. From the start if you had a positive you should have had to get rid of it, test the mother and bull before you could have moved anything from the farm or buy anything in. Heard of a couple fellas that were going keeping calves had the devils of a job trying to get an in-law to get 4 calves done away with.

This is the big issue with anything like this in Ireland any bit of leeway is a disaster. I know it is hard but the cost of these things is horrendous. It cost in the dairy herd, suckler herd and finishers. Everybody loses. I know it was particularly hard on some suckler farmers but if we stay with the plan we may get rid of the disease.

My biggest issue with the (and I'm sorry if this offends any one reading) idiots that choose to try keep the bloody thing and dont think about how they could be passing it across the ditch to their neighbours who may be doing everything they can to rid their herd of it.

My understanding of the disease is that a pi will always have it and continuously sheds the virus, other calves etc will pick up the virus and it will wipe out their immune system for a while leaving them wide open to the slightest little thing causing problems,

But the major problem is were a pi comes in contact with an in calf cow the cow will pick it up temporarily but the calf will be born as a pi as a result of it

whelan1

Zr105 wrote: »

My biggest issue with the (and I'm sorry if this offends any one reading) idiots that choose to try keep the bloody thing and dont think about how they could be passing it across the ditch to their neighbours who may be doing everything they can to rid their herd of it.

My understanding of the disease is that a pi will always have it and continuously sheds the virus, other calves etc will pick up the virus and it will wipe out their immune system for a while leaving them wide open to the slightest little thing causing problems,

But the major problem is were a pi comes in contact with an in calf cow the cow will pick it up temporarily but the calf will be born as a pi as a result of it

this is what happened to us, we reckon a neighbour had a pi, but this was in the early days of the scheme, i think there has to be a time frame set down in stone that if a farmer doesnt get rid of a positive bvd animal by a certain time that ahi or who ever will take the animal, whats the point of the hard work everyone else is putting in if some people dont bother. Also think that the new born calf should be tested with in a specific time frame, we send samples away asap after birth, have heard people on here saying calf is 2 months old and still havent sent sample:eek:

freedominacup

whelan1 wrote: »

this is what happened to us, we reckon a neighbour had a pi, but this was in the early days of the scheme, i think there has to be a time frame set down in stone that if a farmer doesnt get rid of a positive bvd animal by a certain time that ahi or who ever will take the animal, whats the point of the hard work everyone else is putting in if some people dont bother. Also think that the new born calf should be tested with in a specific time frame, we send samples away asap after birth, have heard people on here saying calf is 2 months old and still havent sent sample:eek:

Keeping a PI should equal no SFP at minimum. They could still have their leeway but that would concentrate peoples minds.

bbam

kay 9 wrote: »

Agree whelan but 120 to me right now is alot of money that I genuinely can't afford . Going to get the knackery to blow their heads off and hope it's the last of it. No wonder farming has such a high suicide rate these times. What's it all about. Slogging for nothing.

Sad but true.
Young lady in Cavan went down that route after loosing 8 calves in a row to BVD last spring. I'm sure there was other stuff going on too bit it's a shocking waste of life.

It's tough, but when they're gone they're gone , we never look back and think about the ones that are lost. Go out and look at the best ones you have and admire how well they're doing and the great job you're doing with them.

Zr105

whelan1 wrote: »

this is what happened to us, we reckon a neighbour had a pi, but this was in the early days of the scheme, i think there has to be a time frame set down in stone that if a farmer doesnt get rid of a positive bvd animal by a certain time that ahi or who ever will take the animal, whats the point of the hard work everyone else is putting in if some people dont bother. Also think that the new born calf should be tested with in a specific time frame, we send samples away asap after birth, have heard people on here saying calf is 2 months old and still havent sent sample:eek:

Well by right the samples should be being taken within a week anyway if using ear notch tag... Is it not law that the calf must be tagged within a certain time frame anyways? Definitly less than 2 months.... Saw, i think on here, that some lads stick the BvD tag in straight away and then leave the second tag till they dehorn the calf, that way there's no mishaps with forgetting to dehorn either! Thought it was simple but effective!

mahoney_j

freedominacup wrote: »

Keeping a PI should equal no SFP at minimum. They could still have their leeway but that would concentrate peoples minds.

I think a more practical approach would be to restrict a herd ala a tv breakdown if a calf is not gotten rid of within say a week of positive result.beyond me why anyone would want to keep a sick highly infectious ainmAl aroubd that could infect other ainmsls in the herd

kay 9

Getting rid of them folks and as I said hope this is the last of it. Tbh I didn't think bvd was as serious an issue but it is. I had few Heifers running with them that are not that long in calf. Fingers crossed they didn't contract the damn thing. Thanks everyone for the advice etc. Appreciated it.

towzer2010

kay 9 wrote: »

Getting rid of them folks and as I said hope this is the last of it. Tbh I didn't think bvd was as serious an issue but it is. I had few Heifers running with them that are not that long in calf. Fingers crossed they didn't contract the damn thing. Thanks everyone for the advice etc. Appreciated it.

K9 hopefully they are ok. From what happened in my herd if the heifers were with the PI's before they went in calf they may have already got exposed and now have immunity to an extent. Almost like you immunised them. That's what happened here and I hope you get all clear. The big danger was if they were already in calf and then exposed.

I've two years of clear ear tags since it happened here and never want to see it round again.

rancher

whelan1 wrote: »

this is what happened to us, we reckon a neighbour had a pi, but this was in the early days of the scheme, i think there has to be a time frame set down in stone that if a farmer doesnt get rid of a positive bvd animal by a certain time that ahi or who ever will take the animal, whats the point of the hard work everyone else is putting in if some people dont bother. Also think that the new born calf should be tested with in a specific time frame, we send samples away asap after birth, have heard people on here saying calf is 2 months old and still havent sent sample:eek:

I really wasn't expecting every farmer to get into the spirit of it, but I wasn't expecting 40% of the positives to still be on farms either, that's very disappointing.
At least the offending farmer will have to keep the animal and set up with the problems, but that's no good to the neighbouring farmers who have made the effort and are now still at risk.

signinlate

rancher wrote: »

I really wasn't expecting every farmer to get into the spirit of it, but I wasn't expecting 40% of the positives to still be on farms either, that's very disappointing.
At least the offending farmer will have to keep the animal and set up with the problems, but that's no good to the neighbouring farmers who have made the effort and are now still at risk.

They haven't committed any offence.

whelan1

signinlate wrote: »

They haven't committed any offence.

thats your opinion....really can not see why so many people are against the scheme, when in the long run its saving you money....

signinlate

whelan1 wrote: »

thats your opinion....really can not see why so many people are against the scheme, when in the long run its saving you money....

No It's a fact.
I happen to think they should dispose of the cattle and the factories take them but they are perfectly entitled to hold them.

whelan1

signinlate wrote: »

No It's a fact.
I happen to think they should dispose of the cattle and the factories take them but they are perfectly entitled to hold them.

yes, you can hold on to them, but why???????????????

Timmaay

Was at a discussion group meeting today, interesting talking about why it's not compulsory to get rid of PIs, the department would have to compensate you then. But they aren't happy at all about farmer holding onto the PIs, and something will be done soon about it.

We had a decent discussion about jonnes also, potentially will have a huge knock on effects in the future. I didn't get into the pilot scheme, but they are hoping to get funding for another 1000, will aim for that.

signinlate

whelan1 wrote: »

yes, you can hold on to them, but why???????????????

I don't know why.
The flog'em and hang'em brigade should at least wait until a law has been broken before drawing up a posse.

signinlate

kay 9 wrote: »

What ye doing with bvd positive animals folks? Rang could factories and they ain't taking them. 1st calver and her calf both went down. Quoted 120 by animal collector to take them.. In hard times I find this Rediculous. I have the means to shoot and bury myself. What are the consequences? Thanks...

Did you tell the factories that the cow had tested positive?
Have the factories access to the test results?
If so, is that legal under data protection law?

Zr105

signinlate wrote: »

I don't know why.
The flog'em and hang'em brigade should at least wait until a law has been broken before drawing up a posse.

Can i just ask have you had a pi? We've been lucky enough here to escape but i have seen what it can do.... For your own mental health its better to get rid of them ASAP and not end up watching an animal with no thrive fade to death before you whilst he brings down the health of the herd...

Timmaay

Ha ah here. How many times do we have to tell you your only fooling yourself hanging onto these. They are not fit for the food chain, so you can't bring them to the factory, simple as is. They will destroy the rest of your herd if you hang onto them. Take the hit, call the local knackery, and in future you'll just need to factor the likes of this into your cost of production. If you hang onto them, be prepared to go out of business in a yr or so...

signinlate

Zr105 wrote: »

Can i just ask have you had a pi? We've been lucky enough here to escape but i have seen what it can do.... For your own mental health its better to get rid of them ASAP and not end up watching an animal with no thrive fade to death before you whilst he brings down the health of the herd...

I had an older bullock whose mother tested positive in another herd. He also tested positive and I sent him to the factory a few weeks later along with other cattle that were going.
So far, all calves born in my own herd have been clear.

Farmer Pudsey

whelan1 wrote: »

yes, you can hold on to them, but why???????????????

Because some farmers are penny wise pound foolish. Look at the amount of farmers that buy balers, slurry spreaders etc that are only doing a little bit, then have to buy bigger tractors to handle same when most contractos are just covering costs.

It is the same with this some sucker farmers look at it as a 700 euro calf, however they fail to look at the cost of keeping them separate if they do or the cost of getting them to slaughter stage,

What I would be more afraid of is where they have a dead calf and switch tags and some will do it. Some farmers cannot accept that all they are losing is 2-300 euro when you take the 120 compensation into account. Most if they had a quite cow would be better off buying a calf and putting him underneaht if not cull the cow and buy a replacement.

Zr105

Timmaay wrote: »

Ha ah here. How many times do we have to tell you your only fooling yourself hanging onto these. They are not fit for the food chain, so you can't bring them to the factory, simple as is. They will destroy the rest of your herd if you hang onto them. Take the hit, call the local knackery, and in future you'll just need to factor the likes of this into your cost of production. If you hang onto them, be prepared to go out of business in a yr or so...

I've never heard it said they were unfit for human consumption... If that was true it would be even more pointless to keep them....

Timmaay

Sorry, are they not??? I've never had a PI, I just assumed they did have to be! Then why the hell are people complaining about having to cull them?

Farmer Pudsey

Timmaay wrote: »

Sorry, are they not??? I've never had a PI, I just assumed they did have to be! Then why the hell are people complaining about having to cull them?

It is the calves that are the issue very few animals will survive beyiond 2-3 years as a PI however it is mainly an issue with suckler calves as the calf is the only produce of a cow some farmers see a fine healty looking calf that happens to be infected. It is mostly lads with good quality bulls that keep with the intention of finishing early. They are failing to take into account the effect this is having accross there whole herd.

dar31

Timmaay wrote: »

Was at a discussion group meeting today, interesting talking about why it's not compulsory to get rid of PIs, the department would have to compensate you then. But they aren't happy at all about farmer holding onto the PIs, and something will be done soon about it.

We had a decent discussion about jonnes also, potentially will have a huge knock on effects in the future. I didn't get into the pilot scheme, but they are hoping to get funding for another 1000, will aim for that.

They could of picked a warmer day to be standing around a shed

Milkymoos

Bottom line is keeping Pi animals is just plain crazy. It's a hard and expensive lesson to learn but no doubt you will learn it sooner or later if you do keep them. Anybody vaccinating for Bvd and wants to stop because of no Pi calves has to be sure that animals over the ditch are clear aswell so keep vaccinating! Most Pi animals will not make it to a year old but some do. A factory will take a Pi animal along as it is fit for slaughter. Bvd is not zoonotic so no danger to humans through eating positive meat. Be careful buying incalf heifers or cows from a farmer who has kept positive animals. Calf could be a Pi when born. Just because a cow tests negative for Bvd doesn't mean she is not carrying a Pi calf. Know of a farmer who insisted on keeping 8 Pi calves last January. Kept on an outside farm and fed milk twice daily. Everything seemed fine until he lost 5 in the course of a week without "any explanation". Farmer put last 3 calves down after. He has since done a full herd screen for Bvd, found 3 Pi cows. Cows sent straight to factory and overall herd health and incidents of mastitis and calf pneumonia have dropped massively since these animals are gone. Putting down a PI animal could be the cheapest cost you ever have on a farm.