Buying a house that has no attic cert from an architect (so far)

uberalles

We are sale agreed on a property but their architect isholding things up.

Will a bank give a mortgage on a house with no Attic conversioncert? Its a really lovely prof job butwe are waiting so long now Im beginning to get concerned

Work was done approx. 7 years ago

Valentine1

uberalles wrote: »

We are sale agreed on a property but their architect isholding things up.

Will a bank give a mortgage on a house with no Attic conversioncert? Its a really lovely prof job butwe are waiting so long now Im beginning to get concerned

Work was done approx. 7 years ago

Probably not, if the job was done correctly and professionally then there is no reason why an Architects cert would not be available.

D3PO

well they will accept it as they legally don't have to have it however if theres no cert then its not a conversion just a fancy attic which then impacts the price.

That is where the bank will have issue as the valuation of the property now will unlikely match the price being paid and the mortgage.

So its more an indirect implication.

Why bother calling this out ? Well if your getting a very low LTV mortgage then it wont make a difference as you will still get it, but the higher the LTV the less likely the bank are to allow the drawdown

D3PO

You should be able to make an educated judgement on if you think a cert exists btw . Unless the upstairs and the attic have fire doors and the attic has a fire escape then it wont have a cert.

uberalles

D3PO wrote: »

well they will accept it as they legally don't have to have it however if theres no cert then its not a conversion just a fancy attic which then impacts the price.

That is where the bank will have issue as the valuation of the property now will unlikely match the price being paid and the mortgage.

So its more an indirect implication.

Why bother calling this out ? Well if your getting a very low LTV mortgage then it wont make a difference as you will still get it, but the higher the LTV the less likely the bank are to allow the drawdown

Their bank have valued it at the offer price, no problem there.

Im thinking if the roof collapsed due to a bad design / work the bank couldn't resell if we didn't pay the mortgage and went to resell it.

We can go any higher on LTV then we have.

D3PO

uberalles wrote: »

Their bank have valued it at the offer price, no problem there.
.

well that's not exactly true. If the sale price was 300k for example based on the fact it was sold as a 4bed house as the attic was being classed as converted legally and a 4th bedroom

but infact the conversion is not certified then its actually just a 3 bed house with attic space which means the valuation could be far lower.

the bank have valued it based on the fact its been told to them that the attic is a certified conversion if that turns out to be incorrect that valuation is no longer valid.

Valentine1

D3PO wrote: »

well that's not exactly true. If the sale price was 300k for example based on the fact it was sold as a 4bed house as the attic was being classed as converted legally and a 4th bedroom

but infact the conversion is not certified then its actually just a 3 bed house with attic space which means the valuation could be far lower.

the bank have valued it based on the fact its been told to them that the attic is a certified conversion if that turns out to be incorrect that valuation is no longer valid.

Exactly, without the cert the conversion won't be legally a bedroom so the Bank won't take it into account when making their valuation. Thus if there is no cert their valuation will be much lower than the valuation made as if there was a cert.

As I said, there is no valid reason not to have a Cert so any purchaser should insist on one being produced and any lender will insist on it.

uberalles

Thanks, I didnt think of it from a value point of view (a third bedroom) , I was thinking of it from a structurally sound angle.

My arc friend looked at it and said technically all of the windows are an inch too high to be classed as a fire exit and the windows pivots in the middle not allowing for fire escape. It can be changed relatively easily BUT currently cant be classed as a room becuase of this.

Will see what happens but can a Cert be issued to say its structurally sound rather that its a cert to classify it as a bed room?

D3PO

uberalles wrote: »

Will see what happens but can a Cert be issued to say its structurally sound rather that its a cert to classify it as a bed room?

a structural engineer could do that for you BUT why would you be happy with that ? You have made an offer Im sure based on the fact this is a bedroom. If its not then that valuation and your offer are now too high.

Valentine1

uberalles wrote: »

Thanks, I didnt think of it from a value point of view (a third bedroom) , I was thinking of it from a structurally sound angle.

My arc friend looked at it and said technically all of the windows are an inch too high to be classed as a fire exit and the windows pivots in the middle not allowing for fire escape. It can be changed relatively easily BUT currently cant be classed as a room becuase of this.

Will see what happens but can a Cert be issued to say its structurally sound rather that its a cert to classify it as a bed room?

On this basis the attic conversion is not in compliance with Building Regulations as a bedroom so what you have is a 2 bedroom house not a 3 bedroom house. The Bank won't lend you money on that basis so you can either walk away or make revised offer on the basis that it is 2 bedrooms.

uberalles

D3PO wrote: »

a structural engineer could do that for you BUT why would you be happy with that ? You have made an offer Im sure based on the fact this is a bedroom. If its not then that valuation and your offer are now too high.

We are happy to proceed based on it being a 2 bed and will make it legally a 3 bed when we move in.

Provided the bank are happy:

1) Its structurally sound. Will a new structural engineer give a cert who didn't do the work originally? I don't know why they are taking so long.

2) the bank think this 2 bed is worth the $.
If they don't we may have to get the seller to pay for the fire reg work and get the window lowered and changed.

jmayo

uberalles wrote: »

We are happy to proceed based on it being a 2 bed and will make it legally a 3 bed when we move in.

Provided the bank are happy:

1) Its structurally sound. Will a new structural engineer give a cert who didn't do the work originally? I don't know why they are taking so long.

2) the bank think this 2 bed is worth the $.
If they don't we may have to get the seller to pay for the fire reg work and get the window lowered and changed.

If you have been buying based on it being a 3 bed (one in attic), but now have no certification for it and know that remedial work will have to be done to bring it up to standard then you should be either
a) pulling out of the deal altogether
or
b) at least seeking a drop in price comensurate with it being a 2 bed and not offically a three bed.

If you have been told by someone, with qualification and experience to properly evaluate the conversion, that it doesn't follow regulations then you should be concerned that there may be more hidden problems that you cannot readily see at this time.

D3PO

uberalles wrote: »

We are happy to proceed based on it being a 2 bed and will make it legally a 3 bed when we move in.

Provided the bank are happy:

1) Its structurally sound. Will a new structural engineer give a cert who didn't do the work originally? I don't know why they are taking so long.

2) the bank think this 2 bed is worth the $.
If they don't we may have to get the seller to pay for the fire reg work and get the window lowered and changed.

you need to take a step back and think clearly. If its a 2 bed not a 3 its not worth what you have offered.

At min you need to reduce your offer by the amount it will cost to do the remedial work and get it certified as a room plus 10% for the hassle and contingency incase its needed

but realisitically you should be revising your offer to that of what its value is as a 2 bed.

Stop thinking with your heart and think with your head.

Valentine1

uberalles wrote: »

We are happy to proceed based on it being a 2 bed and will make it legally a 3 bed when we move in.

Provided the bank are happy:

1) Its structurally sound. Will a new structural engineer give a cert who didn't do the work originally? I don't know why they are taking so long.

2) the bank think this 2 bed is worth the $.
If they don't we may have to get the seller to pay for the fire reg work and get the window lowered and changed.

They almost certainly won't. Dollars to donuts your Loan offer will be conditional on having all the relevant certs for the Attic, if you can't get them they won't give you the money.

You should speak to your solicitor, they won't allow you to sign the contracts on the house because you won't be able to meet the mortgage conditions.

uberalles

Valentine1 wrote: »

They almost certainly won't. Dollars to donuts your Loan offer will be conditional on having all the relevant certs for the Attic, if you can't get them they won't give you the money.

You should speak to your solicitor, they won't allow you to sign the contracts on the house because you won't be able to meet the mortgage conditions.

My solicitor is fully aware of the situation and is pressuring their solicitor to pressure their engineer to produce certs ASAP. He can say its structurally sound but not cert it for a bedroom ......... mmmmm

My Solicitor says not to contact the EA for the moment as he is in contact with their Solicitor and it will make it seem like there is something wrong / annoy them. He sent queries and they have answered most. He wants to steer this ship it seems.

The previous sale fell through on this property and it could be for the same reason.

Time will tell what happens on this but its way more complicated than expected.

D3PO

uberalles wrote: »

My solicitor is fully aware of the situation and is pressuring their solicitor to pressure their engineer to produce certs ASAP. He can say its structurally sound but not cert it for a bedroom ......... mmmmm

My Solicitor says not to contact the EA for the moment as he is in contact with their Solicitor and it will make it seem like there is something wrong / annoy them. He sent queries and they have answered most. He wants to steer this ship it seems.

The previous sale fell through on this property and it could be for the same reason.

Time will tell what happens on this but its way more complicated than expected.

so its a 2 bed then not a 3 bed and you have offered 3 bed money. Forget what your solicitor says the first thing you should be doing is contacting the EA and slashing your offer.

your solicitor is dead right there is something wrong hense why you should be on the phone sorting it ffs

uberalles

Update ....

Just read the banks valuer report and he says its a 2 bed :-)

So now its just down to engineers report to say its structurally sound.

astrofool

Was it being sold as a 2bed or 3bed? Converted attic is usually an "attic store" regardless of what it is actually being used for, I doubt a cert to say it's a bedroom exists, you would want a structural engineer to look at it if you want to know it won't fall down.

uberalles

Its our solicitor that want the cert for the my Bank.

Bullseye1

If the attic room is above a two story dwelling there is more to be worried about if it's considered a habitable room. There are issues of compliance with Part B of the Building Regulations.

Stairwell should be fire proofed.
Doors leading onto stairwell should be fire doors.
Intigrated smoke detectors on each floor.

Your own Surveyor should give you the answers on this.


If the attic room is non habitable it cannot be described as a bedroom and only described as attic conversion.

uberalles

Bullseye1 wrote: »

If the attic room is above a two story dwelling there is more to be worried about if it's considered a habitable room. There are issues of compliance with Part B of the Building Regulations.

Stairwell should be fire proofed.
Doors leading onto stairwell should be fire doors.
Intigrated smoke detectors on each floor.

Your own Surveyor should give you the answers on this.

If the attic room is non habitable it cannot be described as a bedroom and only described as attic conversion.

Its a bungalow with attic conversion.

It would be so much simpler buying a 3 bed semi but its a lovely place.

Victor

uberalles wrote: »

Their bank have valued it at the offer price, no problem there.

Banks don't do valuations.