Nationwide RTE Tattersalls Foal sale

HurricaneFly

Thought that the Nationwide RTE program about Tattersalls Foal sale was very poor. It was not a true reflection on breeders.
How is talking to a few Cow farmers in Cork a reflection on the general breeding industry.

ft9

We could nearly hold our own sales on here with all the 2 mile hurdlers passing through.

hucklebuck

I wish Urban would just block his IP

#moderatethe****outofthisbastard

Slattsy

ft9 wrote: »

We could nearly hold our own sales on here with all the 2 mile hurdlers passing through.

I lol'd at this.

Inconspicuous he ain't. Should have went for a stayer this time.

HurricaneFly

Just my opinion on a program that I thought was very disappointing. There was no important people on it. I have an issue with farmers been paid to be farmers. As a genuine horse breeder myself I get nothing free

Harry Angstrom

HurricaneFly wrote: »

Just my opinion on a program that I thought was very disappointing. There was no important people on it. I have an issue with farmers been paid to be farmers. As a genuine horse breeder myself I get nothing free

But 70% of the time, the horses you breed win all of the time.

HurricaneFly

Harry Angstrom wrote: »

But 70% of the time, the horses you breed win all of the time.

Your missing the point those cow farmers are in a privilege position with there big farm cheques paid for by Tax payers like me. When a well bred mare is put on the market they can afford to outbid me a genuine grass roots horse breeder. The point I was making who decided that those cow farmers should represent me on the national airways.

Robson99

HurricaneFly wrote: »

Just my opinion on a program that I thought was very disappointing. There was no important people on it. I have an issue with farmers been paid to be farmers. As a genuine horse breeder myself I get nothing free

Cant see what your problem is. Are you saying they are not genuine?. No important people on it? Interviewed both the vendor and purchaser of the highest priced foal of the sale. Most NH Breeders ARE FARMERS.

You sure have issues

Robson99

HurricaneFly wrote: »

Your missing the point those cow farmers are in a privilege position with there big farm cheques paid for by Tax payers like me. When a well bred mare is put on the market they can afford to outbid me a genuine grass roots horse breeder. The point I was making who decided that those cow farmers should represent me on the national airways.

Dont farmers pay tax as well ? Wouldnt you like to get the best price for your foal when you sell or maybe you would prefer that no farmer bids on them?
Stop making a clown of yourself with silly comments.

HurricaneFly

Robson99 wrote: »

Cant see what your problem is. Are you saying they are not genuine?. No important people on it? Interviewed both the vendor and purchaser of the highest priced foal of the sale. Most NH Breeders ARE FARMERS.

You sure have issues

Robson you should get your facts right it did not interview the purchaser or the Vendor. It interviewed a Bloodstock Agent? and the Consignor...While we are on the subject I heard the Consignor say that the dam of this top price foal was back in foal to the same sire which means for 4 years in a row she has been covered by the same stallion now its only cow farmer that would do that. A knowledgeable breeder would select a different sire each year until he found the right match. There is no evidence of that from what I saw. In fact the sire in question when he was asked to run in winter ground finished tailed off in Navan hardly a good omen for national hunt breeding.

There's nothing personal mate its just my opinion

rossom

HurricaneFly wrote: »

Robson you should get your facts right it did not interview the purchaser or the Vendor. It interviewed a Bloodstock Agent? and the Consignor...While we are on the subject I heard the Consignor say that the dam of this top price foal was back in foal to the same sire which means for 4 years in a row she has been covered by the same stallion now its only cow farmer that would do that. A knowledgeable breeder would select a different sire each year until he found the right match. There is no evidence of that from what I saw. In fact the sire in question when he was asked to run in winter ground finished tailed off in Navan hardly a good omen for national hunt breeding.

There's nothing personal mate its just my opinion

I didn't watch the programme but surely if it was the top price foal then the breeder knows he will get good money by using the same sire again?

Seems bloody simple logic to me.

Robson99

HurricaneFly wrote: »

Robson you should get your facts right it did not interview the purchaser or the Vendor. It interviewed a Bloodstock Agent? and the Consignor...While we are on the subject I heard the Consignor say that the dam of this top price foal was back in foal to the same sire which means for 4 years in a row she has been covered by the same stallion now its only cow farmer that would do that. A knowledgeable breeder would select a different sire each year until he found the right match. There is no evidence of that from what I saw. In fact the sire in question when he was asked to run in winter ground finished tailed off in Navan hardly a good omen for national hunt breeding.

There's nothing personal mate its just my opinion

Facts Frank Motherway Yellowford Farm Vendor and owner of Scandisk dam of subject. Ben Case Purchaser on behalf of LJG
Why not put her in foal to the same sire. If he gets 120k for the foal he would be a fool not to. Nothing wrong with going to the same stallion. He has two fillies full sisters to this years foal which he can breed from.
Yeats is one of the top rated staying stallions at stud. Just because his best performances came on good ground dosent mean he wont be a top NH stallion.
I suggest you do a small it of research before you comment on what is a good omen or not. Three of the top NH sires at the moment Kings Theatre, Beneficial & Presentings best racing performances while racing were on good ground or better. Presenting has sired the winner of 2 gold cups. Not bad for a good ground horse

rossom

He got 120k for the foal and you're suggesting he doesn't use the same sire. You don't sound like you know what you're doing.

Maybe its a good thing you weren't represented on the programme!

Robson99

rossom wrote: »

He got 120k for the foal and you're suggesting he doesn't use the same sire. You don't sound like you know what you're doing.

Maybe its a good thing you weren't represented on the programme!

I think he maybe better suited to Duffys Circus than RTE Rossom

convert

HurricaneFly wrote: »

Your missing the point those cow farmers are in a privilege position with there big farm cheques paid for by Tax payers like me. When a well bred mare is put on the market they can afford to outbid me a genuine grass roots horse breeder. The point I was making who decided that those cow farmers should represent me on the national airways.

I'll leave out the blatant ignorant use of words in your post (I've never heard of a 'cow farmer'!), but it really comes across as if you have a massive chip on your shoulder against farmers who breed horses. I know lots of people who aren't "cow farmers" who breed successfully and who would be more than capable of outbidding farmers for bloodstock. If you feel so hard done by that you weren't represented on Nationwide, then maybe you should contact them and ask to be featured in the episode in which sales are covered.

sting60

I take it this was the Nationwide from yesterday if so it was the dregs.Firstly to show how poor the show was the had a caption of Barry Gerraghty winning the 2011 Grand National on Oscar Whiskey.Cow farmer breeders are making fortunes on the tax payer.Example,a very prominent breeder/farmer who sends 38,000 gallons of milk to the dairy each week ,gets 100,000 sapling trees to sow on land that was set-aside and is given 18e per sapling ,has 15 mares producing on a low average 200k per every two years earns according to him 2k per year for tax reasons.He has sent three children to vet collage payed for by tax payer.When I told him how much i pay tax each month he called me a fool.He/wife have medical cards.

Robson99

sting60 wrote: »

I take it this was the Nationwide from yesterday if so it was the dregs.Firstly to show how poor the show was the had a caption of Barry Gerraghty winning the 2011 Grand National on Oscar Whiskey.Cow farmer breeders are making fortunes on the tax payer.Example,a very prominent breeder/farmer who sends 38,000 gallons of milk to the dairy each week ,gets 100,000 sapling trees to sow on land that was set-aside and is given 18e per sapling ,has 15 mares producing on a low average 200k per every two years earns according to him 2k per year for tax reasons.He has sent three children to vet collage payed for by tax payer.When I told him how much i pay tax each month he called me a fool.He/wife have medical cards.

There was an error in relation to what came up on the screen for Oscar Whiskey but that was only a minor issue in fairness

Can we please stop with the this ignorance to cow farmers. They are dairy men.
Is your issue with farmers breeding horses, people avoiding tax or the fact you paid more tax than he did?

Its laughable people thinking that farmers are costing the tax payers money. Maybe people should look at those who have spent all their lives drawing the dole or those who are drawing the dole and working for cash as well as costing the tax payer before they accuse hard working farmers of it

hucklebuck

HurricaneFly wrote: »

Just my opinion on a program that I thought was very disappointing. There was no important people on it. I have an issue with farmers been paid to be farmers. As a genuine horse breeder myself I get nothing free

Lol, you should get something, farmers give us loads of produce, you give us Tesco burgers.

HurricaneFly

Robson your information is incorrect. The mare Scandisk is not owned by the person you say. The registered owner of the mare is Drumlin Bloodstock.
Could you demonstrate how anyone could have known that the foal would top the sale prior to the mare been recovered by the same horse?
Breeding horses is not the same as breeding cows. You mention Duffy circus so let me explain. Yeats is a failed flat stallion. In 4 years his fee has been dropped from 9,000 to 3,500. The first season breeders that paid the big money spare a thought for those. The filly foals could not make the minimum bid. Thankfully I am not one of those clowns.

UrbanSea

Anyone who sent flat mares to Yeats are the clueless ones. How can he be a failed flat stallion, the dogs on the street knew what types he'd produce. How did the other ones sell that the breeder had from the dam

sting60

UrbanSea wrote: »

Anyone who sent flat mares to Yeats are the clueless ones. How can he be a failed flat stallion, the dogs on the street knew what types he'd produce. How did the other ones sell that the breeder had from the dam

From what I have seen Scorpion is the worst stallion ever,muck big time.Add imo as re posts when he went to stud See the Stars. He will litter the novice hurdle route shortly and have smart chasers even allowing for the top top mares he has covered.

huey1975

sting60 wrote: »

I take it this was the Nationwide from yesterday if so it was the dregs.Firstly to show how poor the show was the had a caption of Barry Gerraghty winning the 2011 Grand National on Oscar Whiskey.Cow farmer breeders are making fortunes on the tax payer.Example,a very prominent breeder/farmer who sends 38,000 gallons of milk to the dairy each week ,gets 100,000 sapling trees to sow on land that was set-aside and is given 18e per sapling ,has 15 mares producing on a low average 200k per every two years earns according to him 2k per year for tax reasons.He has sent three children to vet collage payed for by tax payer.When I told him how much i pay tax each month he called me a fool.He/wife have medical cards.

38,000 gallons of milk per week is 172672 litres per week @35cents / litre is €60,000 per week. You sir are full of sh1t

sting60

Robson99 wrote: »

There was an error in relation to what came up on the screen for Oscar Whiskey but that was only a minor issue in fairness

Can we please stop with the this ignorance to cow farmers. They are dairy men.
Is your issue with farmers breeding horses, people avoiding tax or the fact you paid more tax than he did?

Its laughable people thinking that farmers are costing the tax payers money. Maybe people should look at those who have spent all their lives drawing the dole or those who are drawing the dole and working for cash as well as costing the tax payer before they accuse hard working farmers of it

Sir I dont know you but the production team at RTE OBVIOUSLY were under instructions from higher powers to get this out at prime time and that mistake was huge in the context of knowledge of the people [editor] who put the show forward.Goebbels would not have been proud .

sirdes

sting60 wrote: »

From what I have seen Scorpion is the worst stallion ever,muck big time.Add imo as re posts when he went to stud See the Stars. He will litter the novice hurdle route shortly and have smart chasers even allowing for the top top mares he has covered.

Bit early to be writing off scorpion as a stallion. His first crop are only 4, his produce are still selling pretty well at the sales and the few of them I have seen seem to be nice types.

sting60

sirdes wrote: »

Bit early to be writing off scorpion as a stallion. His first crop are only 4, his produce are still selling pretty well at the sales and the few of them I have seen seem to be nice types.

The knacker loves him.Afriend of mine against my advice brought three mares to him.One of the these mares produced decent winners time and time again and this mating is so bad its untrue.Coolmore have got some top mares in foal to him but there is nothing on the horizon to say they are any good.

sirdes

sting60 wrote: »

The knacker loves him.Afriend of mine against my advice brought three mares to him.One of the these mares produced decent winners time and time again and this mating is so bad its untrue.Coolmore have got some top mares in foal to him but there is nothing on the horizon to say they are any good.

what was the problem with them

HurricaneFly

Was it Tattersalls that got the Nationwide team involved?

Robson99

HurricaneFly wrote: »

Robson your information is incorrect. The mare Scandisk is not owned by the person you say. The registered owner of the mare is Drumlin Bloodstock.

Frank Motherway stated he owned the mare on the programme

HurricaneFly wrote: »

Could you demonstrate how anyone could have known that the foal would top the sale prior to the mare been recovered by the same horse?

Breeding a half brother to Hurricane Fly would give you a very good chance of topping the sale IMO just as a half brother to Frankel would at the flat sale. You dont need brains to work that out

HurricaneFly wrote: »

CBreeding horses is not the same as breeding cows.

Good man very important to know that

HurricaneFly wrote: »

You mention Duffy circus so let me explain. Yeats is a failed flat stallion. In 4 years his fee has been dropped from 9,000 to 3,500. The first season breeders that paid the big money spare a thought for those. The filly foals could not make the minimum bid. Thankfully I am not one of those clowns.

Anyone that thought Yeats would produce a lot of Flat winners was mad in the head IMO. He screamed stamina and NH was always going to be his sphere. NH filly foals are falling well short of the cover fee irrespective of what stallion you use. Take a look at Flemensfirth filly foal results


By the way are you a flat breeder or a NH breeder?

sting60

sirdes wrote: »

what was the problem with them

Like the sire he marked them black[bad sign].They are slow maybe 4m beasts.Very heavy in front alot Like Annie Power different bred but you know wont jump a fence.

Robson99

sting60 wrote: »

The knacker loves him.Afriend of mine against my advice brought three mares to him.One of the these mares produced decent winners time and time again and this mating is so bad its untrue.Coolmore have got some top mares in foal to him but there is nothing on the horizon to say they are any good.

How can you write Scorpion off with his first crop only 4. He has the potential to be a very good NH SIRE

You seem to have yourself convinced that you know a lot about Stallions. Where did you advise your friend to bring his mares to or what Stallions do you rate

sirdes

sting60 wrote: »

Like the sire he marked them black[bad sign].They are slow maybe 4m beasts.Very heavy in front alot Like Annie Power different bred but you know wont jump a fence.

Think you should have a look at a few more other than your friends. Some of the ones I've seen are well able to jump and would not say they looked slow.I'll give him a couple more years before I'll judge him

Robson99

sting60 wrote: »

Like the sire he marked them black[bad sign].

What you talkin about willis?

HurricaneFly

Robson I just checked what Motherway said on Nationwide he did not say he owned her he said the dam of Hurricane Fly is here so he is obviously boarding her for Drumlin Bloodstock.

Also Scandisk's last sale offering a colt foal by the sire of Annie Power made no headlines so we are baffled how they knew Yeats was the one to cover her for 4 times. He is the cheapest sire the mare ever attended.

As for Scorpion what about his 250,000 Derby sale topper who has finished unplaced in his 5 runs. He is the typical Scorpion from what I hear.

sting60

Robson99 wrote: »

How can you write Scorpion off with his first crop only 4. He has the potential to be a very good NH SIRE

You seem to have yourself convinced that you know a lot about Stallions. Where did you advise your friend to bring his mares to or what Stallions do you rate

Can you tell me his fee and why is it so low if he is the stallion you make him out to be.In my opinion he is a shocking stallion and would advise to stay away.

sirdes

HurricaneFly wrote: »

Robson I just checked what Motherway said on Nationwide he did not say he owned her he said the dam of Hurricane Fly is here so he is obviously boarding her for Drumlin Bloodstock.

Also Scandisk's last sale offering a colt foal by the sire of Annie Power made no headlines so we are baffled how they knew Yeats was the one to cover her for 4 times. He is the cheapest sire the mare ever attended.

As for Scorpion what about his 250,000 Derby sale topper who has finished unplaced in his 5 runs. He is the typical Scorpion from what I hear.

Has any horse that topped the derby sale ever turned out to be any good?

Colonel Sanders

UrbanSea wrote: »

Anyone who sent flat mares to Yeats are the clueless ones. How can he be a failed flat stallion, the dogs on the street knew what types he'd produce. How did the other ones sell that the breeder had from the dam

Did Yeats have any 2yo runners/winners this year?

Colonel Sanders

Colonel Sanders wrote: »

Did Yeats have any 2yo runners/winners this year?

actually just checked the RP

Had a handful, top RP rating was 88

eddiezero

sting60 wrote: »

Can you tell me his fee and why is it so low if he is the stallion you make him out to be.In my opinion he is a shocking stallion and would advise to stay away.

I think his fee is at 5k which isn't all that low relative to other jumps stallions.

Ok he is a son of Montjeu but it's very early days to be writing him off given his first crop are only 4 years old and little evidence to show he is a dud.

Cliff Lane didn't look too shabby winning his point either.

UrbanSea

Colonel Sanders wrote: »

Did Yeats have any 2yo runners/winners this year?

Yeah pretty sure Orla Murtagh had one Andrew Balding had a smart looking one I'm sure umpteen more I didn't see

sting60

sirdes wrote: »

Has any horse that topped the derby sale ever turned out to be any good?

No but the but median is kept high by Coolmore fore a reason.

Robson99

HurricaneFly wrote: »

Robson I just checked what Motherway said on Nationwide he did not say he owned her he said the dam of Hurricane Fly is here so he is obviously boarding her for Drumlin Bloodstock.

My interpretation of it is that they bought the dam and own her. They have half sisters to HF on the farm which he said he hoped would be flagbearers for the years to come. That would suggest they own them and will breed from them.

HurricaneFly wrote: »

Also Scandisk's last sale offering a colt foal by the sire of Annie Power made no headlines so we are baffled how they knew Yeats was the one to cover her for 4 times. He is the cheapest sire the mare ever attended.

Whats this we are baffled? They are entitled to use whatever stallion they like
Obviously she has produced correct good looking foals out of Yeats. Hence 120k for a foal. There is a every likelyhood that if they sold the fillies by yeats they would have fetched between 60 & 80k

HurricaneFly wrote: »

As for Scorpion what about his 250,000 Derby sale topper who has finished unplaced in his 5 runs. He is the typical Scorpion from what I hear.

So what. One swallow never made a summer. Its totally unrealistic to judge a NH stallion when his first crop are only 4yo. From what Ive seen Scorpion is throwing lovely athletic horses. Dont get what you mean by typical Scorpion

You still havent put forward stallions you rate that breeders should be covering their mares with

HurricaneFly

Robson I cant change the facts Weatherbys say Drumlin Bloodstock owns the mare and the fillies.
60 to 80k for Yeats fillies are you feeling alright?
A sister to Hurricane Fly by a proper stallion standing at Darley for £35,000 sterling could only make €28,000 carrying a colt foal to Excellent Art (Stud Fee €10,000) at Goffs last November. Those are Facts. Cow men should stay with the cows were they not the cause of the over production in the first instance. Coolmore loves the Cow men because they get their farmers dole cheque at the same time the stud fee's are due.

UrbanSea

I can't be the only one who thinks that is a woeful cross, a sister to Hurricane Fly to a son of Danehill. Also what makes a ''proper stallion'', one who produces top 2 and 3 year olds? Yeats could prove to be a proper stallion, just over jumps

UrbanSea

Another thing that some people seem to forget. Going to an expensive stallion does not mean your foal will sell well, you will do well to remember that pedigree doesn't count for everything. That's why those foals didn't sell well, conformation is worth more than pedigree a lot of the time

Robson99

HurricaneFly wrote: »

Robson I cant change the facts Weatherbys say Drumlin Bloodstock owns the mare and the fillies.
60 to 80k for Yeats fillies are you feeling alright?
A sister to Hurricane Fly by a proper stallion standing at Darley for £35,000 sterling could only make €28,000 carrying a colt foal to Excellent Art (Stud Fee €10,000) at Goffs last November. Those are Facts. Cow men should stay with the cows were they not the cause of the over production in the first instance. Coolmore loves the Cow men because they get their farmers dole cheque at the same time the stud fee's are due.

What did Rock on Rubys sister make? 85K
What did Daralans sister make? 78k
Both out of stallions costing 5k. So there is nor reason why they wouldnt make 60k plus.

In relation to the half sister to HF well maybe she was a pony, maybe she had bad conformation, maybe she was value?. Her foal sold for 20k so she now looks like a cheap mare

You seem to have an issue with farmers and Coolmore. You have failed to state whether you are a flat breeder or a NH breeder and what stallions you think NH breeders should use.

UrbanSea

Gold Well is the one to look out for. I posted about him before he went to Coolmore as one to keep an eye on, Court Cave another I really like


If you could negotiate a fee I really, really like Dylan Thomas for some NH mares


Edit I just looked at Coomore's site did they not buy Gold Well?

Robson99

UrbanSea wrote: »

Gold Well is the one to look out for. I posted about him before he went to Coolmore as one to keep an eye on, Court Cave another I really like


If you could negotiate a fee I really, really like Dylan Thomas for some NH mares


Edit I just looked at Coomore's site did they not buy Gold Well?

RIP. Collic a couple of weeks ago

UrbanSea

Didn't hear that what a shame.

HurricaneFly

In regards to the 2 fillies you mentioned they were Full sisters to both Daralan and Rock on Ruby by Proven Sires of Graded Performers. The Yeats fillies you value so high are Half sisters and by an Unproven National Hunt sire. There is no comparison

By the way you appear to be a man in the know so could you tell us who was the under bidder to agent Ben Case.

Robson99

UrbanSea wrote: »

I can't be the only one who thinks that is a woeful cross, a sister to Hurricane Fly to a son of Danehill.

What would you not like with this cross Urban. Wouldnt a son of Danehill put some stamina into the pedigree?

Robson99

HurricaneFly wrote: »

In regards to the 2 fillies you mentioned they were Full sisters to both Daralan and Rock on Ruby by Proven Sires of Graded Performers. The Yeats fillies you value so high are Half sisters and by an Unproven National Hunt sire. There is no comparison

By the way you appear to be a man in the know so could you tell us who was the under bidder to agent Ben Case.

Dont claim to be in the know at all. Dont know who was underbidder as I wasnt at the sales. Possibly Frank Motherway;)