IMO: get rid of relays at the 2014 NS events

Nwm2

[Mods: please delete if being discussed elsewhere, or actually has come to pass unknown to me as I haven't been following this too closely]

I've been thinking for a while that for NS races which get sold out pretty quickly (I'm thinking HOTW), that all the slots should be reserved for actual triathletes.

Especially now that the NS is significantly condensed, with NS races being quicker to sell out, might even be a bigger issue in 2014.

Most objections to this proposal can be answered with: There are plenty of non-NS races that people who want to do a relay, or otherwise dip their toe into triathlon, can sign up for.

elvis jones

Nwm2 wrote: »

[Mods: please delete if being discussed elsewhere, or actually has come to pass unknown to me as I haven't been following this too closely]

I've been thinking for a while that for NS races which get sold out pretty quickly (I'm thinking HOTW), that all the slots should be reserved for actual triathletes.

Especially now that the NS is significantly condensed, with NS races being quicker to sell out, might even be a bigger issue in 2014.

Most objections to this proposal can be answered with: There are plenty of non-NS races that people who want to do a relay, or otherwise dip their toe into triathlon, can sign up for.

Define ?

By that i mean to you put in a qualifying standard ? If you haven't done an Olympic before you can't do it ?

Nwm2

elvis jones wrote: »

Define ?

By that i mean to you put in a qualifying standard ? If you haven't done an Olympic before you can't do it ?

Badly phrased - I mean a triathlete 'on the day'. Anyone, irrespective of ability, who is doing the triathlon and thus eligible to compete in the NS. Not trying to make this 'elitist' in some way.

griffin100

Not sure what the the big appeal of NS races is meself, but I would think that if you wanted to manage entry you could restrict entries to TI members and not allow ODL's until maybe a couple of months out from a race when TI members who want to enter will have done so already.

shotgunmcos

Fair point as relays does F all for AG QF or NS aspirations. However, its a way to entice more into the sport thus a method to grow the sport. What irks me is that the few relays are included in the main race.

tunney

shotgunmcos wrote: »

Fair point as relays does F all for AG QF or NS aspirations. However, its a way to entice more into the sport thus a method to grow the sport. What irks me is that the few relays are included in the main race.

Grow the sport. Blah, blah, blah .
You know as well I as do Mike triathlon is a blow in, blow out sport for the most part. Most of the people who took part this year for the first time will have quit in 1-3 years. Some will hang around but most will just cross it off their lists and move on.

You still racing tris?

shotgunmcos

tunney wrote: »

Grow the sport. Blah, blah, blah .
You know as well I as do Mike triathlon is a blow in, blow out sport for the most part. Most of the people who took part this year for the first time will have quit in 1-3 years. Some will hang around but most will just cross it off their lists and move on.

You still racing tris?

Arrogance :rolleyes:

Yes I agree tri is mainly blow in 3 years avg. By then IM done or the gra gone or finances throw spanners. You could put marathons in that bucket too, not the expense. Big crowd of LTC in it donkeys and their kids doing tri now, some swimming with high performance. Sport grows with youth competing and adults participating enough to give back and help out at clubs.

No not racing but haven't fallen out with or turned my back on it either. I'll do some hanging around

Back on topic I do think NS races should not have relays but a team sprint event would be fun racing and would really pit clubs against each other

pgibbo

That team format in Hamburg this year looked great. An event like that would be great

tunney

shotgunmcos wrote: »

Arrogance :rolleyes:

Confusing fact with arrogance, the fourth discipline in tri here

I never commented on quality nor commitment just longevity.

shotgunmcos wrote: »

Yes I agree tri is mainly blow in 3 years avg. By then IM done or the gra gone or finances throw spanners. You could put marathons in that bucket too, not the expense.

shotgunmcos wrote: »

Big crowd of LTC in it donkeys and their kids doing tri now, some swimming with high performance. Sport grows with youth competing and adults participating enough to give back and help out at clubs.

LTC are different, well a core group of LTC

shotgunmcos wrote: »

No not racing but haven't fallen out with or turned my back on it either. I'll do some hanging around

Case point

shotgunmcos wrote: »

Back on topic I do think NS races should not have relays but a team sprint event would be fun racing and would really pit clubs against each other

I had a long email about what I felt was wrong with NS, TI and what not and how to resolve the issues but then just deleted it. Its not worth having the discussion here as nothing will ever get done, half the problems are so obvious that the only conclusion is that they are being ignored.

peter kern

I had a long email about what I felt was wrong with NS, TI and what not and how to resolve the issues but then just deleted it. Its not worth having the discussion here as nothing will ever get done, half the problems are so obvious that the only conclusion is that they are being ignored.

thas sounds like a fair realistic assestment.

I wonder if some of the clubs that did not get a nat sereis race will think to join toghter and create their own series. To increase the demand for their races.

tunney

peter kern wrote: »

I wonder if some of the clubs that did not get a nat sereis race will think to join toghter and create their own series. To increase the demand for their races.

Round and round we go

Had this discussion about a good few years ago too. A competing league run by members for members. That time the PL/NS was changed. This time I cannot see it happening. To use "le mot du jour" the financials would make the position too "entrenched"

woody1

ok im not overly informed on this and im probably gonna regret posting but why is it so hard to start an alternative race series
the races are on anyway and im sure the organisers would like the additional entrants
so there is admin and pr
prize for winner each ag.. doesnt sound too hard to me..
or is it politics ?

peter kern

tunney wrote: »

Round and round we go

Had this discussion about a good few years ago too. A competing league run by members for members. That time the PL/NS was changed. This time I cannot see it happening. To use "le mot du jour" the financials would make the position too "entrenched"

At the same time 40 clubs understand that a series status would improve their fiances 16 got it leaves 24 clubs that lose out finacially.

Maybe we need Tunney, bryangigsy ,elvis and Sutton to join forces ;-)

tunney

peter kern wrote: »

At the same time 40 clubs understand that a series status would improve their fiances 16 got it leaves 24 clubs that lose out finacially.

Maybe we need Tunney, bryangigsy ,elvis and Sutton to join forces ;-)

I've done my time, I've done my volunteering.

Podge83

griffin100 wrote: »

Not sure what the the big appeal of NS races is meself, but I would think that if you wanted to manage entry you could restrict entries to TI members and not allow ODL's until maybe a couple of months out from a race when TI members who want to enter will have done so already.

Something along this line would be sensible surely, at least for the first day or few days of entry being open.

Oryx

griffin100 wrote: »

Not sure what the the big appeal of NS races is meself, but I would think that if you wanted to manage entry you could restrict entries to TI members and not allow ODL's until maybe a couple of months out from a race when TI members who want to enter will have done so already.

Somehow, I cant see either race organisers or TI turning down punters who want to give them money NOW, in order to facilitate others who may or may not enter at all.

Clum

peter kern wrote: »

I wonder if some of the clubs that did not get a nat sereis race will think to join toghter and create their own series. To increase the demand for their races.

woody1 wrote: »

ok im not overly informed on this and im probably gonna regret posting but why is it so hard to start an alternative race series

Anybody can set up a race series. Other race series already exist such as various Duathlon series and the midlands aquathlon series.

A new race series could be called pretty much anything and have as many clubs involved as possible but it wouldn't hold the same high rewards as the National Series. The National Series is run by the national governing body which, in Ireland, is Triathlon Ireland. National Awards and international Age Group selections are determined by performances in the National Series (and championships). Any other series would just be able to offer prizes but no national recognition.

It's the national recognition of winners that is what makes the National Series so popular.

littlemsfickle

woody1 wrote: »

ok im not overly informed on this and im probably gonna regret posting but why is it so hard to start an alternative race series
the races are on anyway and im sure the organisers would like the additional entrants
so there is admin and pr
prize for winner each ag.. doesnt sound too hard to me..
or is it politics ?

Would it not need to have a different format, like a supersprint series or something? Is there really enough demand for 2 similar series'?

peter kern

I am sure many people will agree with you, but last time i checked the number one racing series in the world is run by a private entetiy.

Clum wrote: »

Anybody can set up a race series. Other race series already exist such as various Duathlon series and the midlands aquathlon series.

A new race series could be called pretty much anything and have as many clubs involved as possible but it wouldn't hold the same high rewards as the National Series. The National Series is run by the national governing body which, in Ireland, is Triathlon Ireland. National Awards and international Age Group selections are determined by performances in the National Series (and championships). Any other series would just be able to offer prizes but no national recognition.

It's the national recognition of winners that is what makes the National Series so popular.

peter kern

" international Age Group selections are determined by performances in the National Series"

Btw they are awarded to the person willing to pay the race entrance fees most of the times.

Clum

peter kern wrote: »

I am sure many people will agree with you, but last time i checked the number one racing series in the world is run by a private entetiy.

Oh I'm not saying the National Series will always be the most popular series in the country. It's completely plausible that a new series in this country could have more demand with triathletes. Unfortunately no other series can offer as high a status as national champion to the overall winner.

They could call the series Ireland's Fastest, Most Beautiful, Mega Triathlete Series but the man or woman who becomes Ireland's fastest, most beautiful mega triathlete will just be the winner of some gimmicky title which doesn't really mean anything.

Clum

peter kern wrote: »

" international Age Group selections are determined by performances in the National Series"

Btw they are awarded to the person willing to pay the race entrance fees most of the times.

This is true and I've taken advantage of this myself but the initial offer of places goes to those finishing in the top 5 or 10 of their age group. If those top finishers turn down the opportunity to take the international slots it's only then that the places moves down the order of national series finishers.

tunney

Clum wrote: »

Oh I'm not saying the National Series will always be the most popular series in the country. It's completely plausible that a new series in this country could have more demand with triathletes. Unfortunately no other series can offer as high a status as national champion to the overall winner.

The status national champion has nothing to do with the National Series.

In fact there is no status given to the person with the most National Series points. If a 29 year old had the most points they are the 25-29 NS winner. No addition kudos for the 80-84 Female winner.

Clum wrote: »

They could call the series Ireland's Fastest, Most Beautiful, Mega Triathlete Series but the man or woman who becomes Ireland's fastest, most beautiful mega triathlete will just be the winner of some gimmicky title which doesn't really mean anything.

Neither does the national series.

Oryx

*Stupid question alert* How does one become national champion?

tunney

Oryx wrote: »

*Stupid question alert* How does one become national champion?

By winning the National Championships. Gavin Noble and Rachel Glendon are the 2013 Olympic distance national champions.

Oryx

tunney wrote: »

By winning the National Championships. Gavin Noble and Rachel Glendon are the 2013 Olympic distance national champions.

And presumably these are first come, first served entry also? No qualification criteria?

Clum

tunney wrote: »

The status national champion has nothing to do with the National Series.

In fact there is no status given to the person with the most National Series points. If a 29 year old had the most points they are the 25-29 NS winner. No addition kudos for the 80-84 Female winner.

My bad. I assumed there was a title along the lines National Series Champion but I see now it's just referred to as 'overall winner of the national series' with other places being titled 'national series winners'.

However, the point about national selection being awarded to top finishers of the series (as well as places going to top finishers in a specific sanctioned race) is true and valid to the importance of the national series.

Nwm2

Oryx wrote: »

Somehow, I cant see either race organisers or TI turning down punters who want to give them money NOW, in order to facilitate others who may or may not enter at all.

The issue arises for NS races that sell out almost immediately, where unless you're quick on the draw you don't get in.

When dedicated triathletes are queuing up for HOTW, why prevent them racing in order to facilitate relay teams? Race will sell out anyway, so no loss to the organisers.