BMW advice needed

Clancy2014

Hi all, newbie here.

Ok I am currently driving a great 2002 BMW 316i, no issues low mileage 61k. Have it 11 months. Sweet as a nut but I want to step up and would love an M Sport. Have been looking at some, 320 M Sports, 2003 to 2005 years, but am seeing dealers offering such cars and they dont seem to be M Sports at all. I had to point out to one dealer that the car had an M Sport steering wheel added but it was a bog standard 320i. No reference to M Sport anywhere else. I know the engine block should have some markings along with the door sills. Is there anything else???

I don't know enough to not get caught out, is there any fail safe checklist to ensure a 2003 to 2005 M Sport is just that, and not some mocked up yoke with bits stuck on.

Thanks in advance.

challengemaster

M-sport cars come with: M-sport front/rear bumpers,M-sport side skirts, M-sport seats, Anthricite rooflining, M-sport door kicks, uprated suspension, different interior trim, M-sport steering wheel, and upgraded alloys from SE/ES models

Also if you're looking at 2003-2005, those are facelift models which have LED rear lights, and the front lights/indicator are all one part. The front grille is different, and the side-indicators are changed too.

Clancy2014

@Challangemaster, thank you for that.

I have walked away from this one in the past 2 days as it only had the steering wheel, but from the add what do you think?

http://www.carzone.ie/search/BMW/3-Series/320-I-M-/37613836859703420/advert?channel=CARS

challengemaster

As far as I can see, it's Msport alright. Front/rear bumpers, side skirts, sport seats, steering wheel. Having a hard time seeing the headlining properly but from this pic it looks black-ish.



Without seeing it in person, I'd say its msport.

TheBoffin

Taken from BimmerForums

shaddow line trim - around the windows on the door, you get the gloss black trim as oppesed to the chrome

bodykit - front bumper, side skirts, rear bumper (black bit)

log book - will say 330ci sport, as oppessed to 330ci

carbon fiber trim - along the dash, on the armrests and around the gear stick

M badges - door shuts, gear knob, steeringwheel

Black roof lining

Clancy2014

Thanks guys. The only reference to M Sport on this is on the steering wheel, no where else thats what put me off it, other than that it's a great 320 but I am thinking that is all it it is, it looks the part but my gut tells me its just that and no more.

I appreciate the checklists above, thanks a lot for those.

challengemaster

There wasn't really ever massive badges stating msport anywhere on the car.

The steering wheel was the only obvious place. You'd miss the logo on the gear stick easily enough, and its easy not to know to check the kick panels when you open the door.

Again, from everything we can see - it's msport.

tom_k

Also a registration number check calls it "Sport". It's also imported if that makes any difference.

Clancy2014

Thanks for that, I might just go back and take another look!

brembo26

It does look to be m-sport alright

TheBully

to be honest, I think you would be daft to give anywhere near the asking price for that car, you can get a 320 diesel for that money! With the price of fuel these days, big petrol engines is not the way forward! That car will suffer serious depreciation

Gumbo

TheBully wrote: »

to be honest, I think you would be daft to give anywhere near the asking price for that car, you can get a 320 diesel for that money! With the price of fuel these days, big petrol engines is not the way forward! That car will suffer serious depreciation

Since when is a 320i a big petrol engine?

jetfiremuck

Are there any unique identifiers in the vin number?

TheBully

kceire wrote: »

Since when is a 320i a big petrol engine?

I didn't mean it like that, im just trying to stress the fact that the car is overpriced for a petrol car and will depreciate!

i know its not a big engine, i drive a 530d myself (520 on book though:))

jetfiremuck

Vin needs to have WBS for m spec I think. Get him to give you the vin.

challengemaster

Nope. You'd have to run it through a vin decoder to get the build sheet

Idbatterim

hey op, the below might be of interest...

http://www.bmw-driver.net/forum/showthread.php?t=77162

Oh PS, LOL at 5k for that car! Should be up asking a grand less in my opinion, privately Id expect another E500 or so off price..

Gumbo

TheBully wrote: »

I didn't mean it like that, im just trying to stress the fact that the car is overpriced for a petrol car and will depreciate!

i know its not a big engine, i drive a 530d myself (520 on book though:))

If it's as clean as the text mentions, it's not far off price wise from a dealer with warranty. Plus no side effects from turbo, swirl flaps and breather filters.

challengemaster

jetfiremuck wrote: »

Vin needs to have WBS for m spec I think. Get him to give you the vin.

That (first 3 letters) corresponds to the manufacturing division it was made by.

BMW AG Munich - WBA
BMW Motorsport GmbH Munich - WBS

The 7th character from the end represents the plant it was made in.

A, F, G, K - Munich, Germany
B, C, D - Dingolfling, Germany
E, J - Regensburg, Germany
L - Spartanburg, SC, USA

The only parts of a vin you ever need are the last 7 characters. From that you can find out everything

bmstuff

challengemaster wrote: »

That (first 3 letters) corresponds to the manufacturing division it was made by.

BMW AG Munich - WBA
BMW Motorsport GmbH Munich - WBS
4US - BMW USA, where many models are built and sold in Europe

The 6th character from the end represents the plant it was made in.
This is the 7th character actually from the right

A, F, G, K - Munich, Germany
B, C, D - Dingolfling, Germany
E, J - Regensburg, Germany
L - Spartanburg, SC, USA

The only parts of a vin you ever need are the last 6 characters. From that you can find out everything
6 characters VIN number will get you nowhere.
You always need the last 7 digits of the VIN

Updated..

challengemaster

bmstuff wrote: »

Updated..

Made a fecking typo with the first one, and then looked at the first one typing it the second time... doh :pac:

The hilarious part is i know the last 7 of my own off by heart.

bmstuff

challengemaster wrote: »

Made a fecking typo with the first one, and then looked at the first one typing it the second time... doh :pac:

The hilarious part is i know the last 7 of my own off by heart.

Don't drink and type

jharr100

TheBully wrote: »

I didn't mean it like that, im just trying to stress the fact that the car is overpriced for a petrol car and will depreciate!

i know its not a big engine, i drive a 530d myself (520 on book though:))

Thats illegal isn't it?

bmwguy

I bought a 525i sport last month 2004 also with similar mileage and in perfect condition for less than half that price.....that one is way overpriced dont pay anything near that money. 2.5 instead of a 2.2 but thats a massive difference in price

Idbatterim

the 2.5 litres, if going for a 6 cylinder are by far the best value motor tax wise... per euro per bhp...

bmstuff

bmwguy wrote: »

I bought a 525i sport last month 2004 also with similar mileage and in perfect condition for less than half that price.....that one is way overpriced dont pay anything near that money. 2.5 instead of a 2.2 but thats a massive difference in price

You bought an e60 525i for 2500 euros with less than 90k mls in perfect condition? If so that is some lucky buy. They are going for cheap these days, but that's a steal.

Idbatterim

it was an E39, gorgeous car...

wersal gummage

bmstuff wrote: »

You bought an e60 525i for 2500 euros with less than 90k mls in perfect condition? If so that is some lucky buy. They are going for cheap these days, but that's a steal.

I spent about four months looking for a good e60 525i earlier this year and found nothing whatsoever for under ten grand. The few that popped up at the 8k mark were ruled out once I phoned as they had just suspicious stories to go with them.

I ended up getting a 523i m sport for 7500, probably paid a small bit over the odds but it was mint and full documented service history. The se models were an awful lot cheaper.

But yeah, an e60 525i m sport in good condition is not to be had for two and a half grand, or double that! Good deal whatever way you managed it.

challengemaster

bmwguy wrote: »

I bought a 525i sport last month 2004 also with similar mileage and in perfect condition for less than half that price.....that one is way overpriced dont pay anything near that money. 2.5 instead of a 2.2 but thats a massive difference in price

I'd be checking the build date on that, E39s stopped being manufactured in June 2003 (unless its an estate).

bmstuff

challengemaster wrote: »

I'd be checking the build date on that, E39s stopped being manufactured in June 2003 (unless its an estate).

Quiet a few registered in 2004 actually, I come across one or two every now and then.
The e60 was already being sold in 2003 so they must have been hard to sell left over or something...

challengemaster

bmstuff wrote: »

Quiet a few registered in 2004 actually, I come across one or two every now and then.
The e60 was already being sold in 2003 so they must have been hard to sell left over or something...

I'm not doubting its a 04, sure my own E46 was built nov 04 and is registered 05 Just saying its wise to know when it was actually built

bmwguy

It was an e39 2004 that I got for 2.5k, and it is lovely. Top spec, sport model. Any e60 models were asking for waaaaayyy more than that and were base specs mostly, the good specs didnt arrive until 2005/2006 on them. So I cant see a 2.2 being worth any more although the difference in tax of 950 for a 2.2 to 1080 for a 2.5 might cause some certain people to value it as 2.5k more (or 20 years of road tax difference). Bit of a joke but you would never know. I have a funny feeling if a BMW e39 sport in good nick was less than 500 to tax its value would be 7 to 8 grand. Back to original point, do not pay anywhere near 5k for that car, its probably a great car but market price is much less at the moment.

bmwguy

challengemaster wrote: »

I'm not doubting its a 04, sure my own E46 was built nov 04 and is registered 05 Just saying its wise to know when it was actually built

Yep I'm sure it was built 2003 as it was registered in Feb 2004, just one left over that nobody wanted! Like the last puppy of a litter

mloc123

TheBully wrote: »

I didn't mean it like that, im just trying to stress the fact that the car is overpriced for a petrol car and will depreciate!

i know its not a big engine, i drive a 530d myself (520 on book though:))

:rolleyes:

Clancy2014

Hi all, thanks for all the guidance here, much appreciated. I have decided to hold off until the new year. The price is way over for that particular car, as some have stated here. I think I will hold onto what I have and trade up in 2014. My own is well looked after, and 100% Irish car with no major surgery done yet lol.

Does anyone know a good breakers yard for BMW's near Dublin as there are a few small bits and pieces I would like to replace such as the seal around one of the rear doors, where it meets the roof line, one of those arched seals keeps falling off.

Also, as this will be my first winter driving a BMW any tips on what I should check or watch out for, to ensure safe driving for the winter?? It is a 2002 BMW 316i - 61K miles. serviced every 5k miles all its life and something I continued.

Thanks.

Idbatterim

If you were to buy that car now, I'd say youd sell it for in and around 3k, i.e 2k up in smoke! I'd wait a while and hold out for an E90 or E60 m sport...

bmwguy

Clancy2014 wrote: »

Hi all, thanks for all the guidance here, much appreciated. I have decided to hold off until the new year. The price is way over for that particular car, as some have stated here. I think I will hold onto what I have and trade up in 2014. My own is well looked after, and 100% Irish car with no major surgery done yet lol.

Does anyone know a good breakers yard for BMW's near Dublin as there are a few small bits and pieces I would like to replace such as the seal around one of the rear doors, where it meets the roof line, one of those arched seals keeps falling off.

Also, as this will be my first winter driving a BMW any tips on what I should check or watch out for, to ensure safe driving for the winter?? It is a 2002 BMW 316i - 61K miles. serviced every 5k miles all its life and something I continued.

Thanks.

It will be difficult to drive in the snow as it is a rear wheel drive, anything else is the same as any other car, make sure fluids are topped up etc and store it away from the elements if possible. I have had quite a few and didnt have to make any drastic alterations for the winter, but you will struggle if it does snow badly. Probably won't though

Anan1

Put a set of winter tyres on it and it'll go anywhere.

Clancy2014

Thanks folks, great tips here! I am going to try and hold of for the 3 series E90, I dont think I could afford to run a 5 series. The 316 is 679 road tax per annum and that is hard enough. My insurance is grand at 450 for fully comp but the road tax is just senseless.

As I am planning to look for an E90, my budget will be about 5.5k, that is hoping to get at least 2.5k for my own, are there any particular years better than others from say 2003 to 2005 in the E90 range?
I have never driven a diesel in any car, but would consider it if there was a decent argument for it in regards BMW and lastly I prefer manual and hate automatic - I love to feel the gear change in my hands, I guess it is a control thing.

So keep the tips coming and if anyone is planning to but a starter BMW in Jan, I have a smart clean hassle free 2002 that will need a new home. It sailed through the NCT in May in just 22 mins. No panel / body work ever done on it, or engine work for that matter. All servicing was BMW up until January this year, then Ryan's in Blanchardstown after that. They have been looking after my cars for a number of years and are on the ball with BMW as far as I can see - no bother with them yet. My car was recalled in August for the airbag switch out and Joe Duffy did this.

Thanks folks.

Clancy2014

Spotted this 3 series today.

What are the opinions on this? and value for money.

http://www.carzone.ie/search/BMW/3-Series/320-CI-C/37713766626474640/advert?channel=CARS

Idbatterim

you could also go for a 316, i.e the 1.6 engine, if tax is big concern for you... often they will be more expensive though due to the cheaper tax, in which case, you are better off going for the 2L if you plan on keeping it for say 2-3 years...

Idbatterim

that seems well priced, its an SE though, not a sport...

Clancy2014

This is first year driving a BMW. Always had plastic company cars in the past so never took much interest in them. Bought the 316i 1.8 petrol in January of this year and the car has blown me away to be honest. I love it but know it is the pup in the pack lol. I'm not much of a speed freak as I don't get the major interest there, you can only do the speed limit no matter what monster you have under the hood.

I like the car to be reliable, value for money and it to look good. BMW delivers on all 3, its just I know very little about them. I have book marked a lot of forums etc in relation tho them in order to educate myself a little. I believe the best info comes from those who are passionate about what they drive and not what an eager salesman tells you in a forecourt. I'm in my 40's and dabbling in BMW is now an old schoolboy dream come true, albeit I am on the first rung of the ladder - could never afford to dabble before until now so you will have to excuse what might seem anal questions but I do appreciate the guidance folks.

Idbatterim

yeah, the straight 6 bm's are fantastic compared to the 4 pots... what kind of mileage do you do and what is your max budget? Believe me, even if budget is only say 5k, the next one, will blow what you have out of the water, particularly if its a 6 pot, E39 or E60...

keep an eye on the below link too...

http://www.bmw-driver.net/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=15

I might be selling my coupe in the new year, if you havent bought by then, Ill be in touch, if looks are a priority, the m sport coupes are very striking looking...

http://www.bmw-driver.net/forum/showthread.php?t=36085

the camera used when taking those photos was crap and dont do the car justice, going to get good camera and take some more

Gumbo

Can't drive a BMW in the snow me arse!
It's about how you drive the car yourself.

I've driven through 3 snow spells, all in bmw's and autos too!
And to add to that, all msports with wider rear tyres as standard.

Drive appropriate for the conditions and you will be fine.

Idbatterim

exactly! you dont even have to go out and get winter tyres especially, fill up the tank and a few block or bags of sand etc in the boot and you should be fine, once conditions arent ridiculous...

Anan1

kceire wrote: »

Can't drive a BMW in the snow me arse!
It's about how you drive the car yourself.

I've driven through 3 snow spells, all in bmw's and autos too!
And to add to that, all msports with wider rear tyres as standard.

Drive appropriate for the conditions and you will be fine.

With all due respect, this is nonsense. All it takes is a simple icy slope that you can't get a run at and you're stuck. All the ability in the world won't help if you can't get enough traction.

Clancy2014

Jesus Shane it is a fantastic car and I would be interested - I will wait until the new year and we can chat then. I must register on that forum so as I can sell my own when the times comes. Need to put shot photos together and add them.

bmstuff

Clancy2014 wrote: »

Bought the 316i 1.8 petrol in January of this year and the car has blown me away to be honest.

If the 316i blew you away imagine what a M3/M5 will do to you

bazz26

Clancy2014 wrote: »

@Challangemaster, thank you for that.

I have walked away from this one in the past 2 days as it only had the steering wheel, but from the add what do you think?

http://www.carzone.ie/search/BMW/3-Series/320-I-M-/37613836859703420/advert?channel=CARS

challengemaster wrote: »

As far as I can see, it's Msport alright. Front/rear bumpers, side skirts, sport seats, steering wheel. Having a hard time seeing the headlining properly but from this pic it looks black-ish.



Without seeing it in person, I'd say its msport.

I don't think it is a genuine M Sport, have a look at the front A pillar below where the door meets the windscreen. Genuine M Sports have black headlining even on the A pillar whereas below it doesn't.

Idbatterim

that headlining definetly looks black to me, just the glare from the light I reckon, mine looks the same sometimes, even to the naked eye...