Driving in cycle lanes

jameshayes

Don't Do It!

1. Its illegal to pass a car on the left unless he is turning right
2. don't break a solid white line
3. Cars are not expecting you to be there
4. if a garda car, ambulance or anything with a siren comes down the road, guess where the car is going to go? Answer:

right on your face!

5. it SERIOUSLY pi$$es cyclists off (as an occasional one, I can confirm this)
6. when you pass a car driver on the left, and I pass him on the right - he/she gets a fright and resentment grows toward motorcyclists.
7. if you have an accident, I wouldn't have much faith in a judge coming to your rescue.
8. if you go about saying "oh yeahhh buddddyyyy... all cages are out to kill ya"* and then drive in cycle lanes, your a moron.

/rant.


* - separate rant, all cars are not out to get you, giving learners this idea is bad news, they are not all out to get you, motorcyclists just have to understand the limitations of a car driver, bikes move in milliseconds, cars in seconds. accident prevention is the key to a motorcyclist's longevity

Corkbah

its not illegal to pass a car on the left (if the left lane is travelling faster)

jameshayes

Corkbah wrote: »

its not illegal to pass a car on the left (if the left lane is travelling faster)

This is not 100% true, this line was put into the rules of the road for when traffic on a dual carriageway is backed up, when the crawling starts, it would be illegal to for the left lane to move if the right lane was stationary - hence the wording in the rules of the road "slowly"

Traffic in both lanes is moving slowly and traffic in the left-hand lane is
moving more quickly than the traffic in the right-hand lane.
Rules of the road - page 52.

Corkbah

jameshayes wrote: »

This is not 100% true, this line was put into the rules of the road for when traffic on a duel carriageway is backed up, when the crawling starts, it would be illegal to for the left lane to move if the right lane was stationary - hence the wording in the rules of the road "slowly"

Traffic in both lanes is moving slowly and traffic in the left-hand lane is
moving more quickly than the traffic in the right-hand lane.
Rules of the road - page 52.

so…. if left lane is moving faster (i.e. in traffic) I'm correct …. it is legal to pass on the left.

there is always an exception to the rule in irish laws !! (usually its for those who have money and/or access to knowledge of the law)

spiggotpaddy

Nothing wrong with using the quality bike corridor.

Corkbah

spiggotpaddy wrote: »

Nothing wrong with using the quality bike corridor.

??? never heard of it …or are you making fun of the Quality Bus corridor (i.e.. Bus lane)

Del2005

jameshayes wrote: »

This is not 100% true, this line was put into the rules of the road for when traffic on a dual carriageway is backed up, when the crawling starts, it would be illegal to for the left lane to move if the right lane was stationary - hence the wording in the rules of the road "slowly"

Traffic in both lanes is moving slowly and traffic in the left-hand lane is
moving more quickly than the traffic in the right-hand lane.
Rules of the road - page 52.

Rules of the road aren't law, they are an interpretation of the law which they say in one of the first few pages. The statue book is the law.

jameshayes

Del2005 wrote: »

Rules of the road aren't law, they are an interpretation of the law which they say in one of the first few pages. The statue book is the law.

That post is a little pickey - if you want to go the law book, it further alienates driving in cycle lanes, more so than the rules of the road.

"use of cycle tracks
16.—(1) A driver (other than a pedal cyclist) shall not drive wholly or partly along or across a cycle track."

and:

"(4) Notwithstanding paragraph (3) of this bye-law, a driver may overtake on the left—

(a) where the driver of the vehicle about to be overtaken has signalled his intention to turn to the right and the driver of the overtaking vehicle intends, after having overtaken, to go straight ahead or to turn to the left,

(b) where the driver of the overtaking vehicle intends, after having overtaken, to turn left at a road junction and has signalled this intention,

(c) in slow-moving traffic, when vehicles in the traffic lane on the driver's right are moving more slowly than the overtaking vehicle."

unclebill98

jameshayes wrote: »

* - separate rant, all cars are not out to get you, giving learners this idea is bad news, they are not all out to get you, motorcyclists just have to understand the limitations of a car driver, bikes move in milliseconds, cars in seconds. accident prevention is the key to a motorcyclist's longevity

As for this, while its not 100% true this attitude is the same for many people who drive bikes and I am one of them. It helps my "longevity".

Cienciano

spiggotpaddy wrote: »

Nothing wrong with using the quality bike corridor.

Spot on. A nice long empty lane to pass out cars? Crazy not to use them imho

seamus

Corkbah wrote: »

so…. if left lane is moving faster (i.e. in traffic) I'm correct …. it is legal to pass on the left.

The cycle lane is not a separate traffic lane.

Pataman

Corkbah wrote: »

so…. if left lane is moving faster (i.e. in traffic) I'm correct …. it is legal to pass on the left.

EH no. The "lane" you are referring to is a bicycle lane. The clue is in the title.

Vikings

I'm probably guilty of using it to filter to the top of lights past a handful of cars, but to drive in it full stop is a bit foolish - regardless of the legal issues.

Like you say you have zero outs if something goes wrong. A pedestrian steps off the path or a car moves into the cycle lane and there you are smack bang with nowhere to go.

If it's done sensibly and doesn't affect other road users then I don't see a huge problem with it, I certainly wouldn't be worried about pissing off a cyclist. The majority of cyclists I see on the road are either colour blind or just don't know what a red light means.

arybvtcw0eolkf

Cyclists cycling through red lights, against the flow of traffic, no lights on etc etc piss me off ~ I really don't care for their opinions when I use a cycle lane to filter..

In winter when the roads are wet & greasy the red grippy cycle lanes are great for wheelies ~ no wheel spin

jameshayes

Vikings wrote: »

If it's done sensibly and doesn't affect other road users then I don't see a huge problem with it, I certainly wouldn't be worried about pissing off a cyclist. The majority of cyclists I see on the road are either colour blind or just don't know what a red light means.

I had a bandit 600 drive behind me from harolds cross to portobello last week while I was cycling, it really really pi$$ed me off, I (very politely) told him that he'd be better off driving on the outside but he shrugged me off and told me he was within his rights to drive there, wouldn't listen to reason.

seamus

Marshall Tall Tuxedo wrote: »

Cyclists cycling through red lights, against the flow of traffic, no lights on etc etc piss me off ~ I really don't care for their opinions when I use a cycle lane to filter..

Grand so, I'll make a habit of filtering to the front and stopping in front of motorbikes. You know, since all motorcyclists break the law, I don't care for their opinion.

Cienciano

TBH, I use them all the time and never had any problems except once, but that was just an arsehole cyclist.
As viking said, if you're not getting in the way of other road users, or driving up their arse, what's the problem? Going down a cycle lane and ending up blocking it cos a car is to far over to the left would be the worst you can do. And in all my years of driving in cycle lanes, that's never happened me. I wouldn't go into the cycle lane if it was blocked, or I'd pull back into traffic before I got to the blockage.

Skill Magill

I am an occasional footpath user, when the cycle lane is blocked by pesky pushbikes..

arybvtcw0eolkf

seamus wrote: »

Grand so, I'll make a habit of filtering to the front and stopping in front of motorbikes. You know, since all motorcyclists break the law, I don't care for their opinion.

Do what you like.

BlackWizard

I've a lot of respect for cyclists and look out for them when I'm driving with them. I'll use my horn to warn off traffic moving in on top of them and never rush them when I'm driving behind them. I keep my distance and politely move aside when ever stuck in traffic to let them past.

Equally when in the bus lane I give way to any busses and will let them pull out when ever I can.

I've never had any issue in Dublin city center with cyclists. I've recorded 100's of hours of GoPro footage in the past and never once thought that maybe I should keep a few clips of cyclists being stupid. Yes they make can mistakes and some don't obey the rules of the road. But a lot of them seem to have a head on their shoulders and respect the other two wheelers out there.

When a guy fell off his bike on a round-about I was the only one to stop and help him up. I arrived 2min after he fell off. Bit of blood and bruising. Not one car driver stopped to help him. One car almost drove over his bike wheel while I was helping him onto the path.

Once all two wheelers respect each other and recognise each others unique abilities and requirements then really there's no problem with us all filtering through cycle lanes,bus lanes and lane splitting together.

There doesn't need to be a war about this.

Soundman

BlackWizard wrote: »

I've a lot of respect for cyclists and look out for them when I'm driving with them. I'll use my horn to warn off traffic moving in on top of them and never rush them when I'm driving behind them. I keep my distance and politely move aside when ever stuck in traffic to let them past.

Equally when in the bus lane I give way to any buses and will let them pull out when ever I can.

I rarely use the cycle lanes myself, only if traffic is at a total standstill and not looking to move any time soon. When I do use them I would be the same as yourself. I go at a pace that is slightly slower than the average cyclist if I am following one, trying to keep revs to a minimum so they don't feel I am trying to rush them or anything. Try and keep my distance too. If I see a cyclist coming close behind me I will move over at my earliest opportunity and let them pass.

Other than that I tend to use the lane to get to the head of a queue if I am near enough the top.

Only time I do pass on the left other than the above is on Capel Street, where traffic naturally leaves a gap on the left for cyclists, and they stay almost fully to the right.

Most of the time I will stay in traffic unless it is at a standstill/gridlock as I am rarely in that much of a hurry to get anywhere. Allows me time to watch the world go by as well, not to mention the pretty women.

Max Headroom

seamus wrote: »

Grand so, I'll make a habit of filtering to the front and stopping in front of motorbikes. You know, since all motorcyclists break the law, I don't care for their opinion.

Youd better not get in my way...i'll kick u the fcuk off it............:P

kaimera

Um, is it not illegal to drive in a dedicated cycle lane anyway? (solid white line)

I used the broken line lanes a few times before alright to filter up to lights

seamus

Marshall Tall Tuxedo wrote: »

Do what you like.

I probably should, clearly everyone else is, to hell with the law...

fenris

Are we talking about actual real cycle lanes with proper signage and markings that fulfills the legal requirement here or just places where a few broken lines are lashed down?

rat_race

The OP's post is typical non-realistic idealist bullcr*p, usually said from one type of road user to another. "Filtering" is a grey area of the law. It's neither legal nor illegal, (nor even mentioned in law) as far as I know. If we can't overtake on the left, under safe circumstances, then neither should cyclists when there is no cycle lane. No?

Driving in cycle lanes where there is a broken white line, is legal if filtering and safe. No?

Dangerous driving is illegal. It's not always dangerous, nor illegal, to filter up the left or in between cars.

Just don't be a ****1ng di<k. All road users have their fair percentage of twats and I genuinely believe motorcyclists have a much less % than cyclists and motorists (and I'm on a bicycle as much as I'm on the motorbike, and I drive a car, so I'm not biased to any particular group).

I'll say one thing though; if car drivers checked their mirrors when they should, a lot of the world's problems would disappear.

two wheels good

rat_race wrote: »

The OP's post is typical non-realistic idealist bullcr*p, usually said from one type of road user to another. "Filtering" is a grey area of the law. It's neither legal nor illegal, (nor even mentioned in law) as far as I know. If we can't overtake on the left, under safe circumstances, then neither should cyclists when there is no cycle lane. No?

Driving in cycle lanes where there is a broken white line, is legal if filtering and safe. No?

Dangerous driving is illegal. It's not always dangerous, nor illegal, to filter up the left or in between cars.

Just don't be a ****1ng di<k. All road users have their fair percentage of twats and I genuinely believe motorcyclists have a much less % than cyclists and motorists (and I'm on a bicycle as much as I'm on the motorbike, and I drive a car, so I'm not biased to any particular group).

I'll say one thing though; if car drivers checked their mirrors when they should, a lot of the world's problems would disappear.

A driver is permitted to cross the broken line of a cycle track. He/she is not permitted to "drive along the cycle track".
Filtering is a legal grey area. It is not specifically legal - but it is "driving".
So .. no, it is not legal to drive in a cycle lane.

Safe? Well safe filtering is a subjective judgement. There is an increased level of risk with filtering, which I'd suggest is increased further when filtering on the nearside.
In the event of a collision a motorcyclist will be usually be allocated blame (partial or total)

I don't see how the number of twats per mode of transport is relevant - except maybe to note that the other fellow is always the twat.

jameshayes

rat_race wrote: »

The OP's post is typical non-realistic idealist bullcr*p, usually said from one type of road user to another. "Filtering" is a grey area of the law. It's neither legal nor illegal, (nor even mentioned in law) as far as I know. If we can't overtake on the left, under safe circumstances, then neither should cyclists when there is no cycle lane. No?

Driving in cycle lanes where there is a broken white line, is legal if filtering and safe. No?

Dangerous driving is illegal. It's not always dangerous, nor illegal, to filter up the left or in between cars.

Just don't be a ****1ng di<k. All road users have their fair percentage of twats and I genuinely believe motorcyclists have a much less % than cyclists and motorists (and I'm on a bicycle as much as I'm on the motorbike, and I drive a car, so I'm not biased to any particular group).

I'll say one thing though; if car drivers checked their mirrors when they should, a lot of the world's problems would disappear.

I actually laughed out loud at this response.

Unrealistic? How is it unrealistic not to drive in a cycle lane - its pretty easy to avoid. Glasses can help with this, laser eye surgery works also.

Grey area? Not so much by what the RSA say, they discuss it in their this is your bike publication. By the letter of the law, yes - there is not much in the law that mentions filtering.

Filtering = overtaking = cycle lane? no, OVERtaking, not UNDERtaking. And going by one of the points in the RSA publication, and a note a poster made on this thread "contingency plan" squashed between a 150mm curb and a car, there is no contingency.

I drive a car, bike and I cycle - Bike to work, approx 200 days per year, car drives me around after work & weekends and I occasionally cycle to work.

CBRLizzie

It is one of my pet hates, no-body expects a motorbike to come whoring past them in the bicycle lane, and as far as I am aware you can incur penalty points from doing so. Having said that, I will use it to filter past a couple of cars - slowly and carefully.

positron

jameshayes wrote: »

I had a bandit 600 drive behind me from harolds cross to portobello last week while I was cycling, it really really pi$$ed me off, I (very politely) told him that he'd be better off driving on the outside but he shrugged me off and told me he was within his rights to drive there, wouldn't listen to reason.

My policy is live and let live.

I bike because it's fun, and also because it's efficient. There is this one bottleneck part on my commute route where I usually nip into cycle lane to get past built up traffic. I check for cyclists before moving in as anyone would normally do. If there are no cyclists ahead, I would move ahead while watching out for jaywalkers. If there are cyclists, I let them pass and ride behind them matching their speed. Why should a cyclist like yourself get annoyed about this? I am not blocking them, and I am not rushing them.. so what exactly is the problem?

PS: There was this one time when I was cautiously moving forward on the cycle lane (traffic was crazy) a wannabe racer flies up behind me and gets annoyed that I held him back for all of 5 meters, taps on my shoulder and points the cycle lane, curses at me and rides straight thru red lights. Poor guy, slave to his emotions and all that. I pitied him and drove off.

Cienciano

seamus wrote: »

I probably should, clearly everyone else is, to hell with the law...

Ever drive in bus lanes? Cos that's against the law too.

Del2005

seamus wrote: »

I probably should, clearly everyone else is, to hell with the law...

Laws only work when they are enforced. The Gardaì only enforce 2 laws. All the rest are free for all. There are plenty of laws that cyclists break, plenty that bikers break, plenty that car drivers break.

If you want bikers out of cycle lanes I think that ninja salmon breaking red lights should be done also. You can't just get the law being broken that enjoys you enforced, it's all or nothing.

seamus

Del2005 wrote: »

If you want bikers out of cycle lanes I think that ninja salmon breaking red lights should be done also. You can't just get the law being broken that enjoys you enforced, it's all or nothing.

Agreed. Equally you can't complain that someone breaks the law and then do the same yourself. It's all or nothing.

That's why I obey the rules. I just find it hilarious that some people seem to think that "I will drive in the cycle lanes because cyclists break red lights" is somehow taking the moral high ground. It's not, it's the exact opposite, voluntarily becoming as awful a road user as they are.

rat_race

jameshayes wrote: »

I actually laughed out loud at this response.

Unrealistic? How is it unrealistic not to drive in a cycle lane - its pretty easy to avoid. Glasses can help with this, laser eye surgery works also.

Grey area? Not so much by what the RSA say, they discuss it in their this is your bike publication. By the letter of the law, yes - there is not much in the law that mentions filtering.

Filtering = overtaking = cycle lane? no, OVERtaking, not UNDERtaking. And going by one of the points in the RSA publication, and a note a poster made on this thread "contingency plan" squashed between a 150mm curb and a car, there is no contingency.

I drive a car, bike and I cycle - Bike to work, approx 200 days per year, car drives me around after work & weekends and I occasionally cycle to work.

Undertaking is not illegal either, in several circumstances. I'm not talking about bombing down motorways here, we're talking about congested areas with bike lanes and 1-2 lane traffic.

And filtering is a grey area...I am talking about the law. Not some publication from the RSA. Find me somewhere that definitely states what, by law, or even recommendation, a road user can and cannot do.

By the way, I totally disagree with any bikers in the bike lane just cause it's there. I'm talking about slow filtering around cars when there are no cyclists affected by it...

two wheels good wrote: »

A driver is permitted to cross the broken line of a cycle track. He/she is not permitted to "drive along the cycle track".
Filtering is a legal grey area. It is not specifically legal - but it is "driving".
So .. no, it is not legal to drive in a cycle lane.

Well a driver "crosses" that line by driving. It's the same thing. I get your point though; I'm not condoning continuous driving on the cycle path just because there is room for a bike.

And I've read the RSA bike PDF, it mentions filtering but it's very very vague.

Muahahaha

BlackWizard wrote: »

I've a lot of respect for cyclists and look out for them when I'm driving with them. I'll use my horn to warn off traffic moving in on top of them and never rush them when I'm driving behind them. I keep my distance and politely move aside when ever stuck in traffic to let them past.

Equally when in the bus lane I give way to any busses and will let them pull out when ever I can.

I've never had any issue in Dublin city center with cyclists. I've recorded 100's of hours of GoPro footage in the past and never once thought that maybe I should keep a few clips of cyclists being stupid. Yes they make can mistakes and some don't obey the rules of the road. But a lot of them seem to have a head on their shoulders and respect the other two wheelers out there.

When a guy fell off his bike on a round-about I was the only one to stop and help him up. I arrived 2min after he fell off. Bit of blood and bruising. Not one car driver stopped to help him. One car almost drove over his bike wheel while I was helping him onto the path.

Once all two wheelers respect each other and recognise each others unique abilities and requirements then really there's no problem with us all filtering through cycle lanes,bus lanes and lane splitting together.

There doesn't need to be a war about this.

I agree with this, there is no need for any hassle between cyclists and bikers, we are both vulnerable road users and we both have the same interests in educating car drivers to our presence.
On a sunny day when I'm beside a cyclist at the lights just before I pull away I often say to them 'lovely day for two wheels' which gets a laugh. We should talk more often, we're all on the same side at the end of the day.

Del2005

seamus wrote: »

Agreed. Equally you can't complain that someone breaks the law and then do the same yourself. It's all or nothing.

That's why I obey the rules. I just find it hilarious that some people seem to think that "I will drive in the cycle lanes because cyclists break red lights" is somehow taking the moral high ground. It's not, it's the exact opposite, voluntarily becoming as awful a road user as they are.

When I choose to break a law I don't do it because someone else broke a different one, I do it if I think I'll get away with it and I won't put other road users at risk. A lot of road user's who obey the law are some of the worst road users.

mustlove everyone

What exactly is the point of this thread? To start a cyclist v biker v car driver row? It's all been done a thousand times before and it's really quite boring.

Maybe just live and let live? Don't let these things bother you so much.

Also, it's best for all bikers to ride defensively, unless you ride a bike you have no idea how many **** your pants moments can happen down to the stupidity of other road users.

Max Headroom

Why shouldnt bikers use the cycle lanes, or car drivers come to that....the cyclists in Bray certainly dont use them.............:rolleyes:

goodlad

Who gives a ****e really lads... The main thing is not to cause issue for other road users due to a bad call on your part. This is the same no matter what lane you are using. The law can fcuk right off tbh, im not going to entertain a law stopping me nipping up a cycle lane if its clear and i can get past some stopped traffic by using it. I however would make sure im not going to cut a cyclist off by doing so.

Really the bottom line is just dont be a dick on the road.

Hotblack Desiato

two wheels good wrote: »

A driver is permitted to cross the broken line of a cycle track. He/she is not permitted to "drive along the cycle track".

Wrong.

Rules of the Road wrote:

Rules on cycle tracks for other road users
Driving
No vehicle (other than a motorised wheelchair) may cross into or over a mandatory cycle track unless the driver is entering or leaving a place or a side road.

A mandatory cycle track is bordered by a continuous white line on the right-hand side.

fenris

And there is the nub of the issue, actual proper mandatory cycle lanes are not that common and mostly are unusable by cyclists anyway as they involve losing right of way at junctions and bobbing up and down over peoples driveways, a stripe of paint lashed down the side of the road doesn't make a cycle lane.

If it isn't a proper cycle lane then it is just shared space on the road where a bit of cop on and the general principle of not being a dick should be applied.

Soundman

ninja900 wrote: »

Wrong.

You seem to have missed what "two wheels good" said in that it was a broken line which signifies that it isn't an official bicycle only lane, and that all traffic are allowed to use the space if necessary.

Hotblack Desiato

Soundman wrote: »

You seem to have missed what "two wheels good" said in that it was a broken line which signifies that it isn't an official bicycle only lane, and that all traffic are allowed to use the space if necessary.

Nope. You misread.

arybvtcw0eolkf

ninja900 wrote: »

Nope. You misread.

Nope, you did.

two wheels good

"Amusing" coincidence yesterday morning...

I was close enough to be involved in just this situation on my bicycle. If I'd been 2 car lengths closer approaching the stop line I might well have been taken out by a dozy git on a big scooter.
He made a sudden and last-second decision to filter in the cycle lane. No checking of mirrors and no shoulder-check. But the really stupid aspect was there was no oncoming traffic and no reason not to filter on the offside instead.

At the next set of lights I watched him filter in the cycle lane again - even though there was an empty vehicle lane on the right at the junction!
I bet if I'd asked him he'd claim to be riding safely and entitled to filter anyway he wants but really he is a menace. ( And he was approx middle-aged with the look of an experienced rider, not a novice.)

Soundman

ninja900 wrote: »

Nope. You misread.

So... "Broken line of a cycle track" = continuous white line?

Re-read his quote.

Hotblack Desiato

Soundman wrote: »

So... "Broken line of a cycle track" = continuous white line?

Re-read his quote.

It's not hard to understand, really.

'He/she is not permitted to "drive along the cycle track".' is what twowheelsgood posted, in relation to cycle tracks with a broken white line. This is incorrect. It is only correct for cycle tracks with a continuous white line. I posted from the ROTR to back this up.

two wheels good

Soundman wrote: »

So... "Broken line of a cycle track" = continuous white line?

Re-read his quote.

Leave it Sandman! 'Ee's not wurf it! And the bouncer's watchin' .

blu3r0ri0n

two wheels good wrote: »

And the bouncer's watchin' .

A civil thread so far, entertaining too :P