1916 Seachtar Dearmadta, TG4, Wednesdays, 9.30 pm

Lapin

Anyone following this ?

Second part of the series covering 'The Forgotten Seven' executed in 1916 on at the moment.

They're covering Con Colbert tonight. It was Michael Malin last week.

Its one excellent production with insightful contributions from respected historians.

JohnFalstaff

I just finished watching the second episode on Con Colbert. Powerful stuff. So much new material there to get my teeth into. I need to watch the episode a second time on the TG4 player tomorrow.

I enjoyed the first series of Seachtar Na Cásca, but I would have had a good background knowledge as regards Pearse, Connolly and the rest of the signatories. When it comes to this series and characters like Mallin and Colbert I am learning a lot more.

I have to say the series so far is terrific, particularly this week's episode. There were some great scenes in there - Markievicz' speech at the launch of the Fianna, the Fianna camp with the English landlord on horseback, the speeches Colbert delivered - they were very striking. The last few minutes were very emotional.

Although I thought it was interesting that the production didn't shy away from presenting Colbert as almost a religious zealot. There was one scene where Colbert was addressing a group of Fianna that ended with a salute. It put me in mind of the youth wings of the Fascist movements that came to prominence across Europe during the 1930's. The fact that many of the Fianna participants in the Rising were just children is something that doesn't get much attention.

Thought provoking stuff and I look forward to the rest of the series.

Who is up next week I wonder?

johnny_doyle

some of the Fianna children

http://digital.ucd.ie/get/ivrla:30626/pdf

JohnFalstaff

johnny_doyle wrote: »

some of the Fianna children

http://digital.ucd.ie/get/ivrla:30626/pdf

Thanks for that Johnny, very interesting.

Perhaps my earlier reference to children was something of a misnomer considering the era. Although something I took from tonight's program was that Colbert seemed younger than his years in his belief that the people of Ireland would support the Rising.

Santa Cruz

Great programmes. A move away from some of the simplistic history lessons we were given. Very brave men who do not get the recognition that they deserve.

JohnFalstaff

The first two parts of this series are now available on the TG4 player:
http://www.tg4.ie/en/programmes/1916-seachtar-dearmadta.html

Well worth a watch.

JohnFalstaff

A reminder that the next episode of this excellent series is on TG4 tonight at 9.30pm.

This week is about John MacBride. I always thought MacBride got a bad rep due to Yeats' description of him as a 'drunken vainglorious lout'. There was a lot more to his character than that brief hatchet job!

It will be interesting to see how he is portrayed in tonight's programme, especially his fall from grace.

nuac

JohnFalstaff wrote: »

A reminder that the next episode of this excellent series is on TG4 tonight at 9.30pm.

This week is about John MacBride. I always thought MacBride got a bad rep due to Yeats' description of him as a 'drunken vainglorious lout'. There was a lot more to his character than that brief hatchet job!

It will be interesting to see how he is portrayed in tonight's programme, especially his fall from grace.

MacBride's reputation suffered from that jibe by Yeats

He was shot not so much for his part in 1916. He did not know of the Rising that day. He was on his way to his brother who was getting married that week. He joined in when he saw the volunteers taking over Jacobs. He was executed by the British really for his fight against them in the Boer War,

Tradition in Westport is that he led a cavalry charge of the 400 strong Irish Brigade, capturing some guns from fleeing British Infantry. At Colenso I think. If so, the incident would not be marked as battle honour by them

My late father told me that when news of his part in the Rising reached Westport ( by train, before newspapers became available again ) that there were mixed views. The MacBrides were ( and are still ) a highly respected Mayo family. There were different views - that the timing was wrong, that Home Rule was on the way etc. There was shock at his execution. This increased anti-British sentiment, and later increased enrollment into the IRA.

The West Mayo FLying Column was very effective. A man who was involved in these matters at the time told me that the success of the Carrowkennedy ambush on the Westport/Leenane was one of the deciding factors influencing Lloyd-George to start truce talks. In that ambush the MFC under Michael Kilroy killed a number of RIC and Black and Tans, took their arms, including a machine gun, gave some first aid to their wounded, and released one of them to cycle into Westport to get treatment for their wounded. This chivalry and self confidence by Kilroy and his men impressed the British.

Regarding Yeats' reference to MacBride - locally it was felt he was jealous of MacBride as it is said that Maude Gonne would not accept him as his lover.

Maude Gonne used to bring Seán over from Paris each summer to visit his grandmother. She lived where the Helm is now at Westport Quay. The large ruined mill about 400 yards to the west was then owned by the Pollexfen family - Yeats' aunts people. There was a manager's residence at the mill, so it is likely that Yeats called down there from Sligo when M Gonne was in the area.

Might be a Eng Lit or Hist Ph.D there for someone, as soon as someone finds a collection of unpublished WBY poems, left by him in some Westport pub. Working on that.

MacBride was a brave man,

JohnFalstaff

Thanks for that nuac, very interesting and always great to hear first hand accounts of this period in our history.

Another great episode tonight - MacBride came across as something of a pathetic figure in the years before the Rising. He seemed to find the redemption he needed in the Rising and jumped at the chance to take part - even though he was on the way to his brotehr's wedding!

One thing that is a bit unclear, was MacBride accused of molesting Maud Gonne's daughter? One of the historians mentioned allegations of abuse in relation to Iseult and I have heard this mentioned before but the contributors on the show tonight seemed to imply that Maud Gonne was attempting to blacken MacBride's name so as to retain custody of their son... Was there any evidence to back these claims up?

nuac

JohnFalstaff wrote: »

Thanks for that nuac, very interesting and always great to hear first hand accounts of this period in our history.

Another great episode tonight - MacBride came across as something of a pathetic figure in the years before the Rising. He seemed to find the redemption he needed in the Rising and jumped at the chance to take part - even though he was on the way to his brotehr's wedding!

One thing that is a bit unclear, was MacBride accused of molesting Maud Gonne's daughter? One of the historians mentioned allegations of abuse in relation to Iseult and I have heard this mentioned before but the contributors on the show tonight seemed to imply that Maud Gonne was attempting to blacken MacBride's name so as to retain custody of their son... Was there any evidence to back these claims up?

Thanks but my knowledge was not first hand. I am only 74 ffs. Knew his son Seán well

I do recall my father saying that news of MacBride's execution came to Westport via the Dublin train. Huge shock and sadness. I believe that is the first his mother and family in Westport heard of it. The execution led to a change of and hardening of sentiment locally regarding the Rising and the British etc.

My father would have been some years older than Seán. He met him on his various summer visits to Westport and were lifelong friends. He recalled about 1910 Maude Gonne describing Seán to my grandmother as the future President of Ireland. Now that is an Irish mammy.

When Seán became Minister for Foreign Affairs my father mentioned that to me, saying that he was on the way

Locally the view is that the allegations about Iseult were not true,

HistoryMania

Only came across this show tonight, learned so much. Pity I missed the other ones

JohnFalstaff

HistoryMania wrote: »

Only came across this show tonight, learned so much. Pity I missed the other ones

You can watch all the earlier episodes on the TG4 player. It's on again tonight on TG4 at 9.30 - Seán Heuston this week, he was only 25 when he was executed.

I often walk past the Mendicity Institute on Island Street off the quays - there is still a poor house there that gives aid to the needy. This was the building that Heuston and his men occupied during the Rising.

HistoryMania

When I went to the website they only had one episode up, must do digging. Brilliant series overall.

Rebelheart

I've only seen the Con Colbert one (I rarely watch tv). It was excellent, even if I was surprised at the role of Catholicism in his personal convictions. It was very, very interesting about the Scouts - I never knew they were set up as a recruiting ground for cannonfodder for the British Empire. That was an absolutely fascinating background to the establishment of Fianna Éireann. Are Scouts in the Six Counties still affiliated with the British military?

Rebelheart

HistoryMania wrote: »

When I went to the website they only had one episode up, must do digging. Brilliant series overall.

The TG4 website could be a million times better if they had an archive of all their shows, with the added feature of being able to turn off the subtitles (can I do that on the tv/laptop?). There have been some amazing shows that are lost in ether until TG4 set up such an archive.

Santa Cruz

Rebelheart wrote: »

I've only seen the Con Colbert one (I rarely watch tv). It was excellent, even if I was surprised at the role of Catholicism in his personal convictions. It was very, very interesting about the Scouts - I never knew they were set up as a recruiting ground for cannonfodder for the British Empire. That was an absolutely fascinating background to the establishment of Fianna Éireann. Are Scouts in the Six Counties still affiliated with the British military?

While the scouts were not specifically set up as a cadet or recruitment fodder brigade I think the jingoistic attitude prevalent in Britain at the time would certainly point young scouts in the direction of a military career. It was only a few years after the Boer War and the Victorian era when the Empire was at it's height. Military service was certainly encouraged as a career.
I don't think the scouts are affiliated to the British Army as they have big membership from both sides