Irish racing the way forward.

sting60

Already this nh season there have been races where there was not enough runners to pay out for 4th and 5th.As we all know the very wealthy throw their money at racing as tax write-offs and obtain windfalls in the process.It is my opinion two things have to happen for the greater good of racing in this country.Firstly a serious cut back on all grade 1,2,3 funding from HRI.Seconly a cull of under performing tracks like Gowran Park,Navan,Clonmel,Wexford,Tipperary,Thurles and Ballinrobe.By a cull i mean a serious warning over the next few years on over dependance on funding.If the tracks do not meet the standard of self sponsorship in that time frame they lose their meetings.

sirdes

sting60 wrote: »

Already this nh season there have been races where there was not enough runners to pay out for 4th and 5th.As we all know the very wealthy throw their money at racing as tax write-offs and obtain windfalls in the process.It is my opinion two things have to happen for the greater good of racing in this country.Firstly a serious cut back on all grade 1,2,3 funding from HRI.Seconly a cull of under performing tracks like Gowran Park,Navan,Clonmel,Wexford,Tipperary,Thurles and Ballinrobe.By a cull i mean a serious warning over the next few years on over dependance on funding.If the tracks do not meet the standard of self sponsorship in that time frame they lose their meetings.

Could not disagree more with your ideas. Irish racing needs to focus on quality racing. Races and funding for low grade races and handicaps needs to be cut and the value for grade 1, 2, 3 races doubled to attract the top English horses over. People go racing to see top horses not 90 rated handicappers that are having their 75th race. Also your idea that the rich owners are making a profit from nh horses is quiet funny. None of the big owners will get back a fraction of the money they invest.

Go Native

Irish racegoers don't care about the quality of racing on offer, hence the reason the Galway festival is an absolute sell out each year. It's the raceday experience that matters as the quality of racing on offer at Galway, Listowel etc is terrible at times and yet the crowds are massive.

sirdes

what do irish racegoers what so?

loveBBhate

I love the Galway races. I've no interest in horses, racing or anything like that but but the craic is second to none and a serious session is had. Long live the Galway race festival.

Go Native

sirdes wrote: »

what do irish racegoers what so?

They want to sit at home and watch it on ATR rather than slum it around 3rd world racecourse....... The racecourses in Ireland are appalling.

sirdes

Go Native wrote: »

They want to sit at home and watch it on ATR rather than slum it around 3rd world racecourse....... The racecourses in Ireland are appalling.

Weather people go to watch on track or on atr the races should be quaility. its the only way irish racing can improve itself.

Go Native

sirdes wrote: »

Weather people go to watch on track or on atr the races should be quaility. its the only way irish racing can improve itself.

Completely disagree. The only way forward is to improve facilities and improve the raceday experience. Both of which are incredibly poor.

sirdes

Go Native wrote: »

Completely disagree. The only way forward is to improve facilities and improve the raceday experience. Both of which are incredibly poor.

go racing regular but don't see the point of building state of the art facilities and then racing donkeys racing there. racing people will go racing when there is quaility nh horses on show

Go Native

sirdes wrote: »

go racing regular but don't see the point of building state of the art facilities and then racing donkeys racing there. racing people will go racing when there is quaility nh horses on show

In order to grow racing they have to attract non racing people.

Racing people would go racing anywhere anytime, so without being rude they don't really matter. In order to grow the sport racecourses need to attract non racing people. Hence the reason racecourses in the UK hold so many concerts, which have been very successful.

sirdes

And how does that improve the sport. ive been to leopardstown many evenings when there was a concert on people just arrive an hour before the concert and never notice a horse. perhaps we should forget about the horses and just put concerts in the racecourses

Go Native

sirdes wrote: »

And how does that improve the sport. ive been to leopardstown many evenings when there was a concert on people just arrive an hour before the concert and never notice a horse. perhaps we should forget about the horses and just put concerts in the racecourses

Very simple. More money towards prize money, which in turn will increase the standard of racing.

If you get more people to go racing the standard of racing will improve.

If you improve the standard of racing you won't get more people to go racing.

Essentially you do have to forget about the horses to a certain extent to grow the sport.

sirdes

Go Native wrote: »

Very simple. More money towards prize money, which in turn will increase the standard of racing.

If you get more people to go racing the standard of racing will improve.

If you improve the standard of racing you won't get more people to go racing.

Essentially you do have to forget about the horses to a certain extent to grow the sport.

agree to an extent but say for an example next sunday in punchestown the morgiana hurdle was worth 150k. This level of prize money would attract over two or three of the top uk horses so instead of a schooling gallop for hurricane run we could get a proper race.that would surely get another 1000 people thru the gates

Go Native

sirdes wrote: »

agree to an extent but say for an example next sunday in punchestown the morgiana hurdle was worth 150k. This level of prize money would attract over two or three of the top uk horses so instead of a schooling gallop for hurricane run we could get a proper race.that would surely get another 1000 people thru the gates

I don't think it would. 8,000 showed up to watch Sea The Stars in the Irish Champion Stakes. He was the absolute pinnacle of horse racing superstar and all they could attract was a meesly 8,000 people. It was pathetic, but then again the facilities at Leopardstown are an absolute disgrace and that's reflected in attendances.

sirdes

Go Native wrote: »

I don't think it would. 8,000 showed up to watch Sea The Stars in the Irish Champion Stakes. He was the absolute pinnacle of horse racing superstar and all they could attract was a meesly 8,000 people. It was pathetic, but then again the facilities at Leopardstown are an absolute disgrace and that's reflected in attendances.

Flat racing in ireland will never draw a crowd. Nh races will. How many people went to punchestown last april just to see sprinter

diomed

Sixteen years ago (1997) at the English St Leger there was a racecourse radio station broadcasting throughout the afternoon. I had my earphones in and the meeting was much more enjoyable. They broadcast interviews and background info all day.

sting60

sirdes wrote: »

Could not disagree more with your ideas. Irish racing needs to focus on quality racing. Races and funding for low grade races and handicaps needs to be cut and the value for grade 1, 2, 3 races doubled to attract the top English horses over. People go racing to see top horses not 90 rated handicappers that are having their 75th race. Also your idea that the rich owners are making a profit from nh horses is quiet funny. None of the big owners will get back a fraction of the money they invest.

What I want and indeed most people want excluding the super rich want is monies put back into grass roots racing.Syndicates have dropped by 33% in last four years due to costs and lack of prize money.The facts for 2012 against 2011 is that attendances have fallen in May by 52.5%,June by 10.4%and July by 48.6%.These months host Irelands biggest flat pattern races at the Curragh and Leopardstown.Punchestown Festival was down 4%,Leopardstown christmas meeting was down 1% and Fairyhouse Easter meeting down 3%.Galway festival day 1 was down 18%,Day 2 23% with a total meeting collapse of 17,523 race goers.Rural meetings like Listowel festival and Limerick xmas showing an increase.Dundalk,Roscommon,Kilbeggan,tramore doing very well during this period.The facts do not back up the idea of throwing vast amounts of monies to pattern races so better horses turn up will increase attendance.

nobody told me

sting60 wrote: »

What I want and indeed most people want excluding the super rich want is monies put back into grass roots racing.Syndicates have dropped by 33% in last four years due to costs and lack of prize money.The facts for 2012 against 2011 is that attendances have fallen in May by 52.5%,June by 10.4%and July by 48.6%.These months host Irelands biggest flat pattern races at the Curragh and Leopardstown.Punchestown Festival was down 4%,Leopardstown christmas meeting was down 1% and Fairyhouse Easter meeting down 3%.Galway festival day 1 was down 18%,Day 2 23% with a total meeting collapse of 17,523 race goers.Rural meetings like Listowel festival and Limerick xmas showing an increase.Dundalk,Roscommon,Kilbeggan,tramore doing very well during this period.The facts do not back up the idea of throwing vast amounts of monies to pattern races so better horses turn up will increase attendance.

Syndicates have dropped because of the recession no two ways about it.

shaggykev

Guys the reason we have really small fields like this for the big prized races is the fact Willie Mullins or on the flat Aidan o Brien have too many top quality animals and other yards don't

Noel Meade has fallen away since all the builders went bust so nobody is challenging Willie Mullins. Then from a owner point of view we're really only got Jp McManus and Michael O Leary and fair play to both they don't have a problem with mutiple engagements but thats not great either when we had that Grade 3 at punchestown, 4 of the six runners were Gigginstown runners.

The soloution? there is none until we get a few more millionaires interested in racing that choose to give their horses to other yards. Perhaps in recessionary times, owners are keener to give their investments the best chance so we dont see many superstars given to small yards..just look what happened poor Peter Casey with Flemenstar


As for throwing more money at it to get Uk raiders, our races are already vastly better than Uk most of the time and hasnt had Nicky Henderson or David Pipe coming over. Nicholls did for awhile but stopped.

I also think throwing more money at handicaps etc is a waste. Again compare to Britain. Galway races money is ludicrous with 11k maidens that still get won by the usual trainers ie Weld.


Its the monopoly of top class horses in single yards thats ruining the enjoyment of racing


PS. sometimes theres nothing wrong with smaller fields though. 3-4 is too small yes but I like a 7-9 runner chase with qualitty over quanity any day of the week

sirdes

sting60 wrote: »

What I want and indeed most people want excluding the super rich want is monies put back into grass roots racing.Syndicates have dropped by 33% in last four years due to costs and lack of prize money.The facts for 2012 against 2011 is that attendances have fallen in May by 52.5%,June by 10.4%and July by 48.6%.These months host Irelands biggest flat pattern races at the Curragh and Leopardstown.Punchestown Festival was down 4%,Leopardstown christmas meeting was down 1% and Fairyhouse Easter meeting down 3%.Galway festival day 1 was down 18%,Day 2 23% with a total meeting collapse of 17,523 race goers.Rural meetings like Listowel festival and Limerick xmas showing an increase.Dundalk,Roscommon,Kilbeggan,tramore doing very well during this period.The facts do not back up the idea of throwing vast amounts of monies to pattern races so better horses turn up will increase attendance.

the fact that leopardstown, fairyhouse and punchestown are the meetings that decreased least proves that people will still go racing if the quaility is high. Prizemoney should be increased at all levels so that if a horse wins one race a season that at least it covers the training fees for the season. There will only ever be a small pool of top class horses in this country so pattern prize money needs to be increased to attract the top english horses to compete here.

sirdes

shaggykev wrote: »

Guys the reason we have really small fields like this for the big prized races is the fact Willie Mullins or on the flat Aidan o Brien have too many top quality animals and other yards don't

Noel Meade has fallen away since all the builders went bust so nobody is challenging Willie Mullins. Then from a owner point of view we're really only got Jp McManus and Michael O Leary and fair play to both they don't have a problem with mutiple engagements but thats not great either when we had that Grade 3 at punchestown, 4 of the six runners were Gigginstown runners.

The soloution? there is none until we get a few more millionaires interested in racing that choose to give their horses to other yards. Perhaps in recessionary times, owners are keener to give their investments the best chance so we dont see many superstars given to small yards..just look what happened poor Peter Casey with Flemenstar


As for throwing more money at it to get Uk raiders, our races are already vastly better than Uk most of the time and hasnt had Nicky Henderson or David Pipe coming over. Nicholls did for awhile but stopped.

I also think throwing more money at handicaps etc is a waste. Again compare to Britain. Galway races money is ludicrous with 11k maidens that still get won by the usual trainers ie Weld.


Its the monopoly of top class horses in single yards thats ruining the enjoyment of racing


PS. sometimes theres nothing wrong with smaller fields though. 3-4 is too small yes but I like a 7-9 runner chase with qualitty over quanity any day of the week

Willie mullins is in a dominant position at the moment and I would consider him as the best nh trainer both here and in the uk. He sets a high standard and our other trainers are going to up there game to reach his level but this will happen in time. The peter casey example is not a great one because i would say that it was his own mouth that was the cause of him losing Flemenstar

sting60

shaggykev wrote: »

Guys the reason we have really small fields like this for the big prized races is the fact Willie Mullins or on the flat Aidan o Brien have too many top quality animals and other yards don't

Noel Meade has fallen away since all the builders went bust so nobody is challenging Willie Mullins. Then from a owner point of view we're really only got Jp McManus and Michael O Leary and fair play to both they don't have a problem with mutiple engagements but thats not great either when we had that Grade 3 at punchestown, 4 of the six runners were Gigginstown runners.

The soloution? there is none until we get a few more millionaires interested in racing that choose to give their horses to other yards. Perhaps in recessionary times, owners are keener to give their investments the best chance so we dont see many superstars given to small yards..just look what happened poor Peter Casey with Flemenstar


As for throwing more money at it to get Uk raiders, our races are already vastly better than Uk most of the time and hasnt had Nicky Henderson or David Pipe coming over. Nicholls did for awhile but stopped.

I also think throwing more money at handicaps etc is a waste. Again compare to Britain. Galway races money is ludicrous with 11k maidens that still get won by the usual trainers ie Weld.


Its the monopoly of top class horses in single yards thats ruining the enjoyment of racing


PS. sometimes theres nothing wrong with smaller fields though. 3-4 is too small yes but I like a 7-9 runner chase with qualitty over quanity any day of the week

Lots of very valid points I will take up later but the one point that has not been mentioned here I think is the very serious decline of Noel Meades yard.The appointment of Nina Carberry is a pr stunt and nothing else.In his hay day I would regard Meade as the best man to pull a stroke for his owners.

Harry Angstrom

Admission prices are too high for a start. The die-hard racegoers will still stump up the money but the casual/occasional racegoer will probably spend their money elsewhere. I wouldn't mind paying €15 or €20 to see a decent quality card but I'm not going to pay it to see a load of shyte races. Food and drink prices are too expensive as well. It was easy to get the mugs through the turnstiles during the boom even at exorbitant admission prices but people are far more selective on how they spend their money these days.

sting60

The guys on this site a very clued into racing but my post about the people who want a day out.How can the 5e e/w person have a bet in 4 horse race with a 1/4 shot.I have asked for the findings from the Curragh after the Derby this year which will staggering imo.There is a place and value for top races but will the super rich miss a fraction of prize money considering their wealth.We/HRI need to stimulate sales at the lower end of the market so we can play to some degree.My projections will not and has not been entertained because turkeys dont for christmas.

SRFC

The game will die out in the future imo,cant see it being the same in 20 or 30 years not enough interest im 21 and I can think of one of my friends out of probably 7 or 8 close friends that go racing the rest have zero interest.