Best .22 pistol

German pointer

Hi lads a mate of mine wants to get into pistol shooting he has vast experience with rifles and shotguns so he is not a novice with firearms. He understands he will have to join a range and will be limited to a 5 shot mag capacity .22.

The question is which is the best bang for buck .22 pistol in terms of price durability accuracy reliability etc. not necessarily in that order. Simi auto or revolver considered.

All advice welcome what ones to look at and what to keep away from?

TIA

Double Barrel

GP
IMHO, Browning Buckmark
Very nice trigger.
Crafted from a single piece of aircraft-grade aluminum alloy this single action pistol features a ten-round magazine, thumb safety and front and rear iron sights.
Not inexpensive but the machining quality is excellent.
In other words you get what you pay for, value for money.

juice1304

I have shot quite a number of pistols and if i were buying one here it would be either a ruger mkII/III either the target or hunter model.
Or
A Smith&Wesson M41
Both are great firearms. The smith is alot more money But the ruger is a fantastic firearm and had been around in some form or another for a very long time.

cw67irl

The model 41 has also been around since the 60s, Have you considered a Hammerli xesse?

Drexl Spivey

I am myself hesitating between:

Ruger Mark III
Hammeri Xesse
Smith and Wesson 22A
Smith and Wesson 41



I have already assessed that these were all very good quality and will last. I suppose now the problem will be maintenance (how easy is it to disassemble and clean) and availability in the Republic.

The Hammerli requires a screwdriver to disassemble, the ruger requires a hammer (seems tricky). The S&W 22A has a silly little white piece of plastic that wears off with time and needs to be replaced....

Which one would you guys go for??

clivej

This subject was talked about not long ago. Has someone got a link to it????

cw67irl

I had a 22a, Good gun, The little buffer takes a while to wear out and can be replaced for a couple of euro, It was also very ammo friendly, All the way down to subs! I could just never take to it, It would also be at the bottom rung of all the pistols listed, You can get one new in the states from 200+ USD The others would be a higher grade of pistol, But oddly enough all around the same price here! The 41 would be the top of the range at 1500eu,

If I had to change from the Sig id be going for an Xesse any day of the week!

Drexl Spivey

Why would you go for an xesse if the 41 is top of the range?

cw67irl wrote: »

I had a 22a, Good gun, The little buffer takes a while to wear out and can be replaced for a couple of euro, It was also very ammo friendly, All the way down to subs! I could just never take to it, It would also be at the bottom rung of all the pistols listed, You can get one new in the states from 200+ USD The others would be a higher grade of pistol, But oddly enough all around the same price here! The 41 would be the top of the range at 1500eu,

If I had to change from the Sig id be going for an Xesse any day of the week!

BattleCorp

Drexl Spivey wrote: »

Ruger Mark III
Hammeri Xesse
Smith and Wesson 22A
Smith and Wesson 41

Firstly, has your mate tried shooting all the guns listed above. Just because I or somebody else recommends a gun because it suits us, that doesn't mean that it will suit your mate.

Obviously accuracy is important but fit and comfort aren't far behind. Try out the guns listed above, to see how they feel. That's what I'd do before I bought a pistol.

I shot a Pardini pistol a last month. Basically it's an Olympic standard pistol, very very accurate and very very expensive. The thing is, I didn't like shooting it. It didn't feel comfortable and I wasn't particularly accurate with it for that reason. Basically, it didn't suit me.

Here's my two cents. They are all accurate pistols, one isn't significantly more accurate than the other. You wouldn't be at a disadvantage using any of those pistols in a competition. The S&W41 is probably the best of the pistols for reliability and I'd probably pick that pistol. It is also the most expensive of those 4 pistols.

The cheapest is probably the 22a but it is still a good pistol for the money. Plenty of people win competitions with a 22a. Don't let the plastic buffer put you off. I've put about 10,000+ rounds through my pistol and have only replaced the buffer once.

I've shot the Ruger and the Hammerli also. The Ruger is a lovely gun but I found it a bit heavy. I can't remember but I think the slide didn't lock back automatically when the magazine was empty. I didn't like this feature. If you like a light pistol, then the Hammerli would suit.

It's all down to personal taste I guess.

Sparks

clivej wrote: »

This subject was talked about not long ago. Has someone got a link to it????

It's come up a few times:

• Your thoughts/opinions on target pistols please
• First competition pistol
• .22lr target pistol options
• Best all round .22 Pistol
• 22 pistols
• WHICH .22 PISTOL

Some of those earlier threads were more concerned with the upcoming legal changes though.

I still think the IZH-35 is the one people should be looking at if they're going to buy though. Bought second-hand, it's the cheapest competitive ISSF .22 pistol you're going to find; and if you refit the grips with something less ISSF-y and more conventional, you'd have a solid platform for other shooting disciplines, for about the same price as things like the buckmark but which will outshoot them. (Now whether or not you can outshoot the people shooting their buckmarks, that's a whole other question :pac: )

And of course, if it's your first pistol, you should be looking at only one - the club pistol

German pointer

Thanks for all the replies I will look at the links Sparks put up and see what comes up.

It is his first pistol and I don't think he fired one before. At the moment he is only in a clay club and he is not a member of a range yet but is looking at maybe Knocknagoshal or the new one in Tipp, Devils Bit shooting Centre (had a message from them this morning opening in March 2013 all going well).

Sparks

German pointer wrote: »

It is his first pistol and I don't think he fired one before.

Ah, right, skip all this then. His first pistol should only ever be the club pistol. No point going through all the hoops and spending up to a grand if he's not shot pistol before. Use the club one for a while, then think about it.

And don't assume it has to be .22 either; air pistols are cheaper to buy, easier to get set up in, easier to find a range for, cheaper to run and you learn to shoot a pistol well faster with the air pistols than with any other kind of pistol because (a) you can train more with the same amount of effort compared to other pistols; and (b) you don't have the recoil to deal with so you learn the fundamentals right first. You can move on to the .22s afterwards with a far more solid platform to build on.

cw67irl

Drexl Spivey wrote: »

Why would you go for an xesse if the 41 is top of the range?

The Xesse would be my choice in the ones listed at the 7-900

The 41 is more in the 1500+ Price bracket, That being said I wouldn't say no to a 41 if I was changing from the sig!

Horses for courses the Ruger with the heavy barrel is a VERY heavy pistol!! but a nice shooter, Best advice is to get down to a couple of shoots and ask the lads there for their advice,
Chances are most will let you shoot a mag or two to try to find what suits you best!!

rowa

cw67irl wrote: »

The Xesse would be my choice in the ones listed at the 7-900

The 41 is more in the 1500+ Price bracket, That being said I wouldn't say no to a 41 if I was changing from the sig!

Horses for courses the Ruger with the heavy barrel is a VERY heavy pistol!! but a nice shooter, Best advice is to get down to a couple of shoots and ask the lads there for their advice,
Chances are most will let you shoot a mag or two to try to find what suits you best!!

I have to agree, i had a brand new ruger mk3 competition, it was very heavy, and very noticeably nose heavy. If you are shooting single handed the weight can really take a toll on your stamina and affect your accuracy as a competiton wears on. I have handled a few of the top olympic pistols, the aw93 etc and they are nothing like as heavy. The rugers are available with polymer and aluminium frames now though and this saves a lot of weight.

Drexl Spivey

Mmm so this could be added to the list (thx Sparks)
http://imzcorp.com/en/company/45.html


1.2 kg though, same weight as the Ruger if I'm not mistaken.

Sparks

Same weight, different balance. It's the one I'd have at the top of my own shopping list for a first .22 pistol, even if I still think the SSP is a beautiful piece of engineering.

But really, for a first pistol, strongly resist the urge to buy one and just use the club pistol for a while. And think hard about an air pistol - if you want to learn to shoot pistol properly, it's about the best way to start, as rrpc said earlier:

rrpc wrote: »

As for the argument that you're going to get a .22 anyway so why not now. Well I'll just say that many people who have been shooting .22 or bigger have told me that they regretted not getting an air pistol first. I even know one guy who's changing his prized CZ75 for an air pistol as soon as he can.

The point about the availability of somewhere to practice with an air pistol can't be overstressed. If it's a choice between having to travel a couple of hours to a couple of minutes, then I know which one I'd choose. Pistol shooting (well), requires many hours of practice and lots of rounds down the range. People I know who are working hard at improving are using up 500 rounds a week and at €40-€50 minimum, that's a lot of dosh when a tenner a week is the max cost for the same amount of training with an air pistol.

This is not a one instead of another argument, it's more a case of having something you can build on and you'll not want to drop even when you do progress to a cartridge pistol. And quite frankly the progression will be much easier.

BattleCorp

Drexl Spivey wrote: »

Mmm so this could be added to the list (thx Sparks)
http://imzcorp.com/en/company/45.html

I'm open to correction but these pistols haven't been manufactured for about 10 years. They are only available second hand.

I don't know why they are on the website because they aren't available new.

Sparks

Nope, they're not being made anymore; but they were made in such numbers (and they were being polished and sold on by Walter for a few years as well) that they're easy to find on sites like egun (ironically though, today's the first day I couldn't find one there, just spare grips for €28 and a spare parts kit for €25, though those prices should tell you something about how easy it is to find bits in europe for these pistols).

rowa

http://www.normanharpur.com/component/page,shop.product_details/flypage,shop.flypage/product_id,249/category_id,6/manufacturer_id,0/option,com_virtuemart/Itemid,26/

civdef

Can't stress the point about looking into buying elsewhere in the EU enough. There are amazing bargains to be had (I got a mint Model 41 for less than €400). Buy off a reputable dealer for safety and the paperwork isn't crazy when you get down to it.


This is the sort of pricing you'd be looking at:
http://www.frankonia.de/Pistole+Modell+M41/SMITH+%26+WESSON/Ansicht.html?Artikelnummer=947748

http://www.vdb-waffen.de/de/gebrauchtwaffenmarkt/uebersicht/5y13dn3x/89y59t93.html?s=1&s_hk=1&s_sk=22

http://www.vdb-waffen.de/de/gebrauchtwaffenmarkt/uebersicht/h45507n6/yqvm52vm.html?s=2&s_hk=1&s_sk=22

http://www.frankonia.de/911031/364757/productdetail.html?navCategoryId=7257

http://www.frankonia.de/911039/364765/productdetail.html?navCategoryId=7257

http://www.frankonia.de/908139/364688/productdetail.html?navCategoryId=7257

http://www.frankonia.de/908135/364684/productdetail.html?navCategoryId=7257

http://www.frankonia.de/881596/364161/productdetail.html?navCategoryId=7257

http://www.frankonia.de/881596/364161/productdetail.html?lastSelected=f_s_gwb_kaliber&f_s_gwb_kaliber=.22+LFB&navCategoryId=7257

http://www.frankonia.de/836998/359750/productdetail.html?lastSelected=f_s_gwb_kaliber&f_s_gwb_kaliber=.22+LFB&navCategoryId=7257

http://www.vdb-waffen.de/de/gebrauchtwaffenmarkt/uebersicht/0nq6vuh7/82u313p6.html?s=4&s_hk=1&s_sk=22

http://www.vdb-waffen.de/de/gebrauchtwaffenmarkt/uebersicht/0ahswwdz/8b32sn1f.html?s=5&s_hk=1&s_sk=22

German pointer

Thanks lads I'll give him all this info when I see him in the next day or so and see what he thinks

Drexl Spivey

An Irish dealer said the same to me recently. I was enquiring about a Mark III and he said I would be better off buying it Germany.

How do you go about buying abroad though?

civdef wrote: »

Can't stress the point about looking into buying elsewhere in the EU enough. There are amazing bargains to be had (I got a mint Model 41 for less than €400). Buy off a reputable dealer for safety and the paperwork isn't crazy when you get down to it.


This is the sort of pricing you'd be looking at:
http://www.frankonia.de/Pistole+Modell+M41/SMITH+%26+WESSON/Ansicht.html?Artikelnummer=947748

http://www.vdb-waffen.de/de/gebrauchtwaffenmarkt/uebersicht/5y13dn3x/89y59t93.html?s=1&s_hk=1&s_sk=22

http://www.vdb-waffen.de/de/gebrauchtwaffenmarkt/uebersicht/h45507n6/yqvm52vm.html?s=2&s_hk=1&s_sk=22

http://www.frankonia.de/911031/364757/productdetail.html?navCategoryId=7257

http://www.frankonia.de/911039/364765/productdetail.html?navCategoryId=7257

http://www.frankonia.de/908139/364688/productdetail.html?navCategoryId=7257

http://www.frankonia.de/908135/364684/productdetail.html?navCategoryId=7257

http://www.frankonia.de/881596/364161/productdetail.html?navCategoryId=7257

http://www.frankonia.de/881596/364161/productdetail.html?lastSelected=f_s_gwb_kaliber&f_s_gwb_kaliber=.22+LFB&navCategoryId=7257

http://www.frankonia.de/836998/359750/productdetail.html?lastSelected=f_s_gwb_kaliber&f_s_gwb_kaliber=.22+LFB&navCategoryId=7257

http://www.vdb-waffen.de/de/gebrauchtwaffenmarkt/uebersicht/0nq6vuh7/82u313p6.html?s=4&s_hk=1&s_sk=22

http://www.vdb-waffen.de/de/gebrauchtwaffenmarkt/uebersicht/0ahswwdz/8b32sn1f.html?s=5&s_hk=1&s_sk=22

rowa

I think there is a problem with frankonia sending guns out of germany, they are supposed to have fallen out with their courier and no one else would take over. Also recent firearms law changes in germany means a firearm cannot be sent out in one piece, it must be broken up and sent in two parcels, i believe this costs somewhere around the 200 euro mark, so take that into consideration when budgeting your purchase.

Drexl Spivey

930 quids for a Hammerli Xesse. Is that good? They show up at 669 on the Hammerli web site.

German pointer

Drexl Spivey wrote: »

930 quids for a Hammerli Xesse. Is that good? They show up at 669 on the Hammerli web site.

Gunshop.ie website has them for €750

rowa

Drexl Spivey wrote: »

930 quids for a Hammerli Xesse. Is that good? They show up at 669 on the Hammerli web site.

Is that the price for the pistol in ireland , or is the 930 euro price the price in germany ?

Drexl Spivey

rowa wrote: »

Is that the price for the pistol in ireland , or is the 930 euro price the price in germany ?

930 is the price in Ireland. Is that good?

Drexl Spivey

German pointer wrote: »

Gunshop.ie website has them for €750

That's odd. I swear that's them who quoted 930 to me Today. May be the website is not up to date.

rowa

Drexl Spivey wrote: »

That's odd. I swear that's them who quoted 930 to me Today. May be the website is not up to date.

E750 + the shipping , E180 , which is about right.

Drexl Spivey

So it looks like they are selling the Sport version at 930
http://gunshop.ie/firearms/firearms-gallery/hammerli-xesse-long.html

They could have said to avoid confusion.

It is the IPSC I'm interested in.

rowa

One thing about the hammerli series of pistols dating back to the 1930's olympia to bear in mind is that they were only designed to be used with standard velocity ammo. If they are used with high or hyper velocity ammunition they can crack the frame.

Drexl Spivey

Thanks for the info. I'm not sure what the difference is. What would the hogh velocity be used for?


I tried the Smith and wesson 22a last weekend and was not impressed. The slide was hard, the mag release is weird, it felt heavy overall.

I am still interested in the Ruger Mark 3 but it seems availability is an issue.

I was happy with the Xesse so it might be the one.

cw67irl

Theres no reason to use high velocty in a pistol unless its something like a Sig or something that needs the extra bit of poke to work the action, All you should be feeding an xesse or 22a is standard velocity or subs,

Cci being the brand of choice for both of these, Cheap to buy and great to shoot just shop around for decent prices!

One thing to consider, Do you need the "Sport" grips for the xesse? I could be wrong but i think they are mainly for single handed shooting something you will do little of in gallery shoots here!!

If it was me id have the regular 6" version and spend the money on more mags or Nill grips if you want to go all out!

Drexl Spivey

Agreed on all accounts.

I think they have nothing but Sport versions in stock. But I'll dig some more details in a few days.

cw67irl wrote: »

Theres no reason to use high velocty in a pistol unless its something like a Sig or something that needs the extra bit of poke to work the action, All you should be feeding an xesse or 22a is standard velocity or subs,

Cci being the brand of choice for both of these, Cheap to buy and great to shoot just shop around for decent prices!

One thing to consider, Do you need the "Sport" grips for the xesse? I could be wrong but i think they are mainly for single handed shooting something you will do little of in gallery shoots here!!

If it was me id have the regular 6" version and spend the money on more mags or Nill grips if you want to go all out!

BattleCorp

Drexl Spivey wrote: »

Thanks for the info. I'm not sure what the difference is. What would the hogh velocity be used for?


I tried the Smith and wesson 22a last weekend and was not impressed. The slide was hard, the mag release is weird, it felt heavy overall.

I am still interested in the Ruger Mark 3 but it seems availability is an issue.

I was happy with the Xesse so it might be the one.

High velocity rounds tend to be slightly less accurate than standard velocity or subs. They are also harder on the pistol too.

I've shot the Ruger Mark 3 and it felt heavier than the 22a.

What grips did the 22a have? The factory grips are crap. You'd need to put decent wooden grips on it for it to feel comfortable.

The Xesse is a good gun, so if you are happy with that, then it won't let you down.

Snipe23

As for the best .22 pistol, in my opinion get the SW41 extremely accurate, very reliable, use cci standard ammo for the best results, I got myself a 41 and have never regretted spending the extra cash, the 41 is a top notch target pistol.