Johnes pilot scheme.

slippy wicket

Just wondering if anyone is joining this pilot scheme. It seems like a very good idea to me.
Dept paying for initial risk assessment and Glanbia putting 100 towards testing.
There are costs, but the benefits of preventing a spread of this disease have to be worth a multiple of the initial costs.

jaymla627

slippy wicket wrote: »

Just wondering if anyone is joining this pilot scheme. It seems like a very good idea to me.
Dept paying for initial risk assessment and Glanbia putting 100 towards testing.
There are costs, but the benefits of preventing a spread of this disease have to be worth a multiple of the initial costs.

Testing for johnes is hit and miss, it can lie dormant for years in animals and even infected animals don't show up in testing 60-70 % of the time.
The best prevention for it at farm level is not to feed pooled colostrum/whole milk to your heifer calves where possible and get them on to milk replacer asap, a herd locally had/has a serious problem with its an absolutely soul destroying disease if it gets into your herd cows doing 25 litres plus in this lads case just dried up overnight and wasted away for a couple of weeks till they dropped.

whelan1

how will the scheme work? is it a blood/tissue/milk/dung test?

1chippy

fill me in on this scheme or is it just for dairy lads. i had the vet out today testing a cow for johnes. ive dosed her multiple times, shes bvd negative but still scouring and wasting away. i have her on meal and minerals and ad lib silage so its just a waiting game for the results now.

whelan1

1chippy wrote: »

fill me in on this scheme or is it just for dairy lads. i had the vet out today testing a cow for johnes. ive dosed her multiple times, shes bvd negative but still scouring and wasting away. i have her on meal and minerals and ad lib silage so its just a waiting game for the results now.

what age is she?

1chippy

shes an april 06 cow

slippy wicket

whelan1 wrote: »

how will the scheme work? is it a blood/tissue/milk/dung test?

There are 1000 places for the country, testing is up to yourself. Blood or milk, depending on your own set up. The cheapest price was testing along with brucellosis test- €3.80/head. Testing with milk recording was around €5.50/head approx and a private test (blood) was mentioned at being around €7/head.

whelan1

slippy wicket wrote: »

There are 1000 places for the country, testing is up to yourself. Blood or milk, depending on your own set up. The cheapest price was testing along with brucellosis test- €3.80/head. Testing with milk recording was around €5.50/head approx and a private test (blood) was mentioned at being around €7/head.

who do you contact to part take?

slippy wicket

whelan1 wrote: »

who do you contact to part take?

Supposed to be your local milk manager.
I got a letter about it about 10 days ago, maybe the pilots full already.
Of the 1000, carberry were taking 350 places, or so I was told. They've been running their own scheme to keep their customers happy.

jaymla627

whelan1 wrote: »

who do you contact to part take?

Glanbia sent out letters about two weeks ago with the details.

mahoney_j

No details from arrabawn but ive been testing a pool(blood) of any cows in herd over 4 lactations for last 2 years and have been negative so far as well as screening milk 4 times a year.With the links to a debelating human disease this could have major impact on our dairy industry if it took hold in a major way.My vet who carried out the tests feels that in a few years that there may be a premium for milk from herds who are certified johnes free.

delaval

mahoney_j wrote: »

No details from arrabawn but ive been testing a pool(blood) of any cows in herd over 4 lactations for last 2 years and have been negative so far as well as screening milk 4 times a year.With the links to a debelating human disease this could have major impact on our dairy industry if it took hold in a major way.My vet who carried out the tests feels that in a few years that there may be a premium for milk from herds who are certified johnes free.

We are taking part. I want to get certified free for stock sales to the UK where premium al ready available

grassroot1

We had it in a limousine stock bull we bought in at 5 yrs old,he feel apart over a weekend. Our vet knew the minute he says him

keep going

Carbrey have a scheme in place with 2 years and I started this year with bloods and all clear butthats just one test so it will take years to go allclear. The bulk milk and random bloods were ok aswell in previous years so lets just wait and see.

jersey101

mahoney_j wrote: »

No details from arrabawn but ive been testing a pool(blood) of any cows in herd over 4 lactations for last 2 years and have been negative so far as well as screening milk 4 times a year.With the links to a debelating human disease this could have major impact on our dairy industry if it took hold in a major way.My vet who carried out the tests feels that in a few years that there may be a premium for milk from herds who are certified johnes free.

There is no link between chrones disease and johne's. I was just at the meeting.
Scientists are trying to prove it but it hasn't been yet. The bacteria are similar but not the same

Timmaay

If your bulk tank screening shows negative are you ok?

delaval

Timmaay wrote: »

If your bulk tank screening shows negative are you ok?

No it's only a guide. Really hard to try for. Hoping that on farm protocols will help control.

There's no ambition to eradicate it as its most unlikely

jersey101

Timmaay wrote: »

If your bulk tank screening shows negative are you ok?

nope that is no way accurate because it is so hard to detecte the virus.
There going to get you do test milk ssmples from every coe. If your milk recording you can use them. Have to be three months after your tb test.
You can do a blood sample. You can use your brucellosis test if you have one coming up.
Then you can do a feacal test to do a final check if your unsure.
If a cow shows up clear after two consecutive milk tests. Then she is clear

jersey101

Timmaay wrote: »

If your bulk tank screening shows negative are you ok?

nope that is no way accurate because it is so hard to detecte the virus.
There going to get you do test milk ssmples from every coe. If your milk recording you can use them. Have to be three months after your tb test.
You can do a blood sample. You can use your brucellosis test if you have one coming up.
Then you can do a feacal test to do a final check if your unsure.
If a cow shows up clear after two consecutive milk tests. Then she is clear

whelan1

Just signed up. Places filling up fast

Henwin

If a couple of cows show up positive, whats the procedure. do they have to go straight to the factory?. Have you a certain amount of time to sell them?
If you buy in a bull that is positive do they pass it on to cows when they bull them or is it mainly through feeding milk to calves that its transmitted.

onyerbikepat

Some info here;
http://www.animalhealthireland.ie/page.php?id=30

It seems to be disease that can only be monitored, rather than conclusiveley tested for.

---

The Limousin society have been testing for it these last few years

"Due to the nature of the disease a herd can never guarantee Johnes free status, the best assurance is accredited low risk and this can only be achieved by annually testing all animals over two years in age."
http://www.irishlimousin.com/html/herd_health.html

whelan1

Henwin wrote: »

If a couple of cows show up positive, whats the procedure. do they have to go straight to the factory?. Have you a certain amount of time to sell them?
If you buy in a bull that is positive do they pass it on to cows when they bull them or is it mainly through feeding milk to calves that its transmitted.

you do not have to get rid of positives, but if i had some i would. if you are testing through milk recording you do 2 tests 3 months apart, glanbia will pay 100 euro towards the cost of testing

jersey101

whelan1 wrote: »

you do not have to get rid of positives, but if i had some i would. if you are testing through milk recording you do 2 tests 3 months apart, glanbia will pay 100 euro towards the cost of testing

the hard job will be having to take samples from cows 3 months after their tb test. Not every dairy farm has cows milking 6 months after their tb test

whelan1

jersey101 wrote: »

the hard job will be having to take samples from cows 3 months after their tb test. Not every dairy farm has cows milking 6 months after their tb test

yes but you could get them blooded if you are brucellosis testing instead

jersey101

whelan1 wrote: »

yes but you could get them blooded if you are brucellosis testing instead

ye but thats only every five years doh. So ull have to blood em if ye cant use the milk

whelan1

jersey101 wrote: »

ye but thats only every five years doh. So ull have to blood em if ye cant use the milk

I know it's a pain in the butt but at least it's a start. It's an awful disease

jersey101

whelan1 wrote: »

I know it's a pain in the butt but at least it's a start. It's an awful disease

ye well i suppose one good thing that will come out of it is more people will milk record. We were going to start next year regardless.

slippy wicket

And just for the record, testing has to be completed by September 14, I'd imagine its so they can have all their figures tabulated for years end.

Signed up today, going to do it through milk. We test in August , so getting two tests won't be a problem.
False positives will be an issue , no doubt. We tested two lim cows back in January by blood, they failed that but passed the extremely long and drawn out dung test.

mahoney_j

Just signed up,if u want In get on the phone to ahi quickly as there heading to no 950 as of 10 minutes ago,the ahi no is 071 9671928

mahoney_j

Just signed up,if u want In get on the phone to ahi quickly as there heading to no 950 as of 10 minutes ago,the ahi no is 071 9671928

whelan1

i got 2 emails yesterday,both from ahi, one is a completed consent form which was filled in by glanbia, other was an empty consent form, just rang them have to post away second consent form today

rancher

jersey101 wrote: »

the hard job will be having to take samples from cows 3 months after their tb test. Not every dairy farm has cows milking 6 months after their tb test

Don't understand where you get your 6 months,
Can you not take the blood on the first day of the test before you give the animals the tuberculin

jersey101

rancher wrote: »

Don't understand where you get your 6 months,
Can you not take the blood on the first day of the test before you give the animals the tuberculin

was talking about milk in that post, your right about the bloods though

Henwin

hi folks, quick question. If you have a cow that tests positive, do you have to sell their offspring to the factory too. Cant find an answer anywhere. even if you feed the calf milk powders.

Henwin

Anyone any ideas on the above question

whelan1

Henwin wrote: »

hi folks, quick question. If you have a cow that tests positive, do you have to sell their offspring to the factory too. Cant find an answer anywhere. even if you feed the calf milk powders.

dont know and would also be interested what the story is if you bought in stock that developed johnes

5live

Henwin wrote: »

hi folks, quick question. If you have a cow that tests positive, do you have to sell their offspring to the factory too. Cant find an answer anywhere. even if you feed the calf milk powders.

No the calf isnt sent to the factory. There is no protocal set up as yet on how to deal with positive animals, from a conversation yesterday with AHI. Bar not being allowed to move them from farm to farm from next year.

If the calf, or any calf, gets colostrum from the positive cow then they will have a much greater chance of showing up positive in future. So try to keep any colostrum pooling to male/beef calves and try to keep each cows colostrum for its own calf as far as is possible. And if feeding milk to calves try to keep it from animals that test negative.

Also, Johnes can be spread from dung so try to keep eating areas as free from dirt as possible.

Thats as much as i got from AHI so far

whelan1

5live wrote: »

No the calf isnt sent to the factory. There is no protocal set up as yet on how to deal with positive animals, from a conversation yesterday with AHI. Bar not being allowed to move them from farm to farm from next year.

If the calf, or any calf, gets colostrum from the positive cow then they will have a much greater chance of showing up positive in future. So try to keep any colostrum pooling to male/beef calves and try to keep each cows colostrum for its own calf as far as is possible. And if feeding milk to calves try to keep it from animals that test negative.

Also, Johnes can be spread from dung so try to keep eating areas as free from dirt as possible.

Thats as much as i got from AHI so far

on the colostrum, i have to feed rotavec corona treated biestings for 10 days after calving, i dont feed from heifers biestings, was shocked this year when an 8 year old bought in cow tested positive for johnes, i thought at that age they would be clear

5live

whelan1 wrote: »

on the colostrum, i have to feed rotavec corona treated biestings for 10 days after calving, i dont feed from heifers biestings, was shocked this year when an 8 year old bought in cow tested positive for johnes, i thought at that age they would be clear

Iirc they dont show symptoms till 2yo at the earliest but can show at any age after, mostly 5-6yos.

I have 1 positive from a herd closed with 12 years, bar 1 suckler and calf, and she is going to the factory next week. That is from 2 milk recording tests.

And i have one with a positive and negative from milk as well and she will probably go as well, depending on being in-calf or not.

It never ends, does it:mad:

whelan1

5live wrote: »

Iirc they dont show symptoms till 2yo at the earliest but can show at any age after, mostly 5-6yos.

I have 1 positive from a herd closed with 12 years, bar 1 suckler and calf, and she is going to the factory next week. That is from 2 milk recording tests.

And i have one with a positive and negative from milk as well and she will probably go as well, depending on being in-calf or not.

It never ends, does it:mad:

yup . i know if its not one thing its another, just want to know now what the story is... in fairness i couldnt fault the bvd scheme ahi do

5live

whelan1 wrote: »

yup . i know if its not one thing its another, just want to know now what the story is... in fairness i couldnt fault the bvd scheme ahi do

No the BVD scheme is excellent tbf.

On Johnes, the lady i was talking to was saying that they still havent finalised the protocols as yet but there will be a provision to move positive animals to a farm/feedlot for finishing as the Dept recognise that many farms dont have the facilities to fatten cows. The Dept seem a bit more open to flexability this time out than other schemes. Especially as this scheme will be 10 years or more on the go

biddy2013

just wondering are people going with bloods or milk recording for the scheme?

Greengrass1

biddy2013 wrote: »

just wondering are people going with bloods or milk recording for the scheme?

Not sure yet.
We are due brucellosis test in November with the tb test so could do it with that or wait till the last cow calves in end of march and do it then

mahoney_j

Milk recording for me

biddy2013

has anyone had contact from ahi? we are tb testing in a few weeks, was going to blood all over 2yo for johnes then?

John_F

bloods here followed by dung on suspects or positives. had a postivie in 2012 and she was negative in 2013, awaiting dung results

Milked out

biddy2013 wrote: »

has anyone had contact from ahi? we are tb testing in a few weeks, was going to blood all over 2yo for johnes then?

Have you done the assessment yet? Your nominated vet is to do that with you first and then bloods/ milk samples are taken and then dung on any suspects I think. Did the assessment here 3 wweks ago, as well to do it during calving period as this is most likely time of infection. I'll be blood testing this year so will be using blood samples for the scheme. I'd say get on to your vet to get going with it

biddy2013

Milked out wrote: »

Have you done the assessment yet? Your nominated vet is to do that with you first and then bloods/ milk samples are taken and then dung on any suspects I think. Did the assessment here 3 wweks ago, as well to do it during calving period as this is most likely time of infection. I'll be blood testing this year so will be using blood samples for the scheme. I'd say get on to your vet to get going with it

have spoken to vets about it, now didnt get to speak to the main man but they have me more confused. I might ring ahi after lunch

whelan2

anyone taking part this year? Got a letter yesterday, i had blooded all over 2 years old last week at tb test any way before i knew there was a scheme this year