Calgary or Vancouver?

kieran.

So I been offered a job in Canada and my future employer has given me the option of Calgary or Vancouver as they have offices in both cities. I siding slightly towards Vancouver at the moment mainly for the weather.

Just wondering has anyone real experience of both cities and what are the positives and negatives for both.

I'm 30 my wife's 31 and accountant and have two kids.

Scruffy19

Cant really speak for Calgary as haven't been their yet! But loving Vancouver, there's so much to do, no matter what the weather is like.

Check out this thread that was floating about few weeks again:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057013692

Should give you a insight into Vancouver from fellow Irish living here!

kimjongillest

Lived in Vancouver for a while, not sure whether I'd ever go back prob go to Montreal next time if I had the chance to be honest.

If weather is a concern I would think twice about Vancouver, it rains a hell of a lot like 300 days a year or something and not like the rain here. It will literally rain for 3 weeks straight all day every day heavy rain then stop for a day or two then another 3 weeks of non stop rain, it really is relentless at times and a bit depressing until the summer where you get about two and a half months of sun, which is great. So if you think the rain here is annoying ya ain't seen nothing. Someone said to me Seattle is the wettest city in the world and that's just below Vancouver so I'm not surprised.

It's also incredibly expensive, I've lived in London and Manhattan for a short period when I was younger and some things in Vancouver made those places look like good Value. Check out the site "Absurd Vancouver Properties" it shows how you could have some of the most desirable mansions in the world in the most exotic locations for the same price as a dingy 2 bed semi detached in Vancouver suburbia.

I'm not sure what salary you have been promised but one thing I did notice about Vancouver which differed to other expensive cities I've lived in was the disparity between wages and cost of living. I think the minimum livable wage is something like $20 per hour yet minimum wage is something like $8. There is a lot of wealthy people there but I think a lot of it is old money or people who made their money elsewhere in Canada and Asia then retired to Vancouver.

If you are the type that likes to go hiking, rock climbing, mountain biking etc... every weekend and you and your wife are in well paid professional careers it could be the ideal place though.

Sinfonia

If you've already got the job, and it's the same either way, then Vancouver.
Tons of Calgary folk seem to move here all the time in fact!

Northern Monkey

Vancouver would be my pick, but like all things Canada, it isn't cheap!

kieran.

Yeah I got the job with the option of both! Vancouver seems very expensive for property i.e. 950k+ for a 3 bed semi. and I'd like to settle and buy a property in a couple of years so I think I'm going to plump for Calgary. The other plus for Calgary is the layout of the city most area seem to be about max 15-20mins with down-town centrally located for all, whereas in Vancouver the down-town is tuck away in the North-western corner which is a bit of trek especially as the new office would be in the south eastern end (Surrey).

Frank Bullitt

I'm in Vancouver and love it, but it can depend on what you want from it.

It is expensive to live here, but Canada as a whole is not cheap, but you can live on a budget fairly easy if you try.

In terms of things to do here, the list is endless, a few hours drive from the city and you are in the wilderness, the city itself is beautiful and clean, easy to get around with great food and nice people. Transport is magic and if you get a bike then you will get around the city very easy.

The weather is a little more extreme than Ireland, but as the great Billy Connolly said "There's no such thing as bad weather, just the wrong clothing, so get yourself a sexy raincoat and live a little." The rain also isn't as bad as can be described on here, sure its wet, but who the hell cares? If its 24/7 sun you want, try the horn of Africa.

fergusb

May as well give my 2 cents on the weather....

yeah it does rain in Vancouver... but the summers are nice and pretty reliable. This summer in July there was only a 'trace' amount of rain, and think August was decent as well.

In the winter when it rains... you just have to think if its raining downtown... it should be snowing in the mountains, so travel the 30 minutes it takes and get to one of the 3 ski resorts on your doorstep, then you won't care about the rain in the city!

Not going to argue about the cost of living. It isn't cheap, but personally I'd prefer to live in a city which suits my lifestyle, than have loads of money in a city where i cannot do all the things I want to do.

Its also a lot more of a renters market than home. Most places are unfurnished which is a pain initially but then it ends up being much better for long term renting since you can add a more personal touch with your furniture, a huge amount of people don't buy and just rent.

ciaran67

Scruffy19 wrote: »

Cant really speak for Calgary as haven't been their yet! But loving Vancouver, there's so much to do, no matter what the weather is like.

Check out this thread that was floating about few weeks again:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057013692

Should give you a insight into Vancouver from fellow Irish living here!

Most of that is shyte to be honest Scruf

ciaran67

kimjongillest wrote: »

If weather is a concern I would think twice about Vancouver, it rains a hell of a lot like 300 days a year or something and not like the rain here. It will literally rain for 3 weeks straight all day every day heavy rain then stop for a day or two then another 3 weeks of non stop rain, it really is relentless at times and a bit depressing until the summer where you get about two and a half months of sun, which is great. So if you think the rain here is annoying ya ain't seen nothing. Someone said to me Seattle is the wettest city in the world and that's just below Vancouver so I'm not surprised.

Rain in Ireland is feckin annoying cos it does all the time. At least its glorious for 3 months in Vancouver. Try other parts of Canada where the bugs will drive you insane.

Wompa1

I walked through downtown Vancouver today. It was one of the most depressing cities I have ever been to. There's an incredible drug problem, I have never seen so many crooked, shook up people in one place before. I walked for hours. It's somewhat disturbing that it's such a Hipster town and is known for being so liberal, yet so many are drug addled and sleeping rough. It's like people with skinny jeans and painted nails drinking coffee in cutsie small cafes or play sword fighting and crap with the back drop of poverty and despair.

The waterfront is amazing, some of the suburbs are nice but the city downtown itself is a complete sh1thole. I would not want to move to Vancouver.

Jamsiek

Wompa1 wrote: »

The waterfront is amazing, some of the suburbs are nice but the city downtown itself is a complete sh1thole. I would not want to move to Vancouver.

I just can't agree with this to be honest, it's a beautiful city.
Yes there are problems with homelessness and that's unfortunate.
If you like your beers or great food it's fantastic.
Its surrounded with beaches and amazing mountains to the north.
I would recommend Vancouver for a while at least, fantastic place.

Jamsiek

kimjongillest wrote: »

If weather is a concern I would think twice about Vancouver, it rains a hell of a lot like 300 days a year or something and not like the rain here.

300 days is a big exaggeration to be fair. The weather this year has been great and it really hasn't rained that much, fingers crossed it stays that way.

The rain can be annoying but the winters are very mild compared to other parts of Canada. It rarely ever snows except in the mountains.

kimjongillest wrote: »

It's also incredibly expensive, I've lived in London and Manhattan for a short period when I was younger and some things in Vancouver made those places look like good Value.

True it's an expensive city overall but it depends largely on what part of the city you live in.

You have to remember that Vancouver consistently scores high in the most liveable cities in the world, I think it was no 3 in the world the last time I heard.

kimjongillest wrote: »

If you are the type that likes to go hiking, rock climbing, mountain biking etc... every weekend and you and your wife are in well paid professional careers it could be the ideal place though.

I agree here, the area outside the city is amazing and there is a lot to see and do.
Overall I'd say that it's a great city to live but it's not cheap. Then again, Canada overall is relatively expensive but I'm happy I moved here last year.

ciaran67

Wompa1 wrote: »

I walked through downtown Vancouver today. It was one of the most depressing cities I have ever been to. There's an incredible drug problem, I have never seen so many crooked, shook up people in one place before. I walked for hours. It's somewhat disturbing that it's such a Hipster town and is known for being so liberal, yet so many are drug addled and sleeping rough. It's like people with skinny jeans and painted nails drinking coffee in cutsie small cafes or play sword fighting and crap with the back drop of poverty and despair.

The waterfront is amazing, some of the suburbs are nice but the city downtown itself is a complete sh1thole. I would not want to move to Vancouver.

Mate you cant judge the city by that few block radius. From Carrall to Main St along E Hastings. I work down there a lot and the mental illness in this city is unreal. A lot of them arrive on the wheat trains from the rest of the country cos basically you wont freeze to death in Vancouver. Imagine being a down and out in Winnipeg?!

As they push along E Hastings gentrifying it, they are getting more and more condensed. Its not menacing though and certainly not like the States where you would be murdered in areas like that. Very strange, always has been.

Liberal?? It's so friggin right wing you mean.

Seattle kicks Vancouver arse.

usersame

Vancouver is hugely overrated IMO

"Beautiful boring British Columbia" is literally a saying over there

It's very very expensive, loads of homeless, nightlife is cat.

But it's very safe, decent public transport, you can see the snow covered mountains from the city which is nice. Whistler which us up the road is an amazing ski town. Vancouver is consistently rated as one of the best cities in the world to love in.

My brother lived in Calgary and absolutely loved it, I've never been there

usersame

ciaran67 wrote: »

Mate you cant judge the city by that few block radius. From Carrall to Main St along E Hastings. I work down there a lot and the mental illness in this city is unreal. A lot of them arrive on the wheat trains from the rest of the country cos basically you wont freeze to death in Vancouver. Imagine being a down and out in Winnipeg?!

As they push along E Hastings gentrifying it, they are getting more and more condensed. Its not menacing though and certainly not like the States where you would be murdered in areas like that. Very strange, always has been.

Liberal?? It's so friggin right wing you mean.

Seattle kicks Vancouver arse.

Yeah it's not menacing, I walked down it at about 2am and the locals were just telling me to leave and pretty much escorted me off E Hastings

Frank Bullitt

Wompa1 wrote: »

I walked through downtown Vancouver today. It was one of the most depressing cities I have ever been to. There's an incredible drug problem, I have never seen so many crooked, shook up people in one place before. I walked for hours. It's somewhat disturbing that it's such a Hipster town and is known for being so liberal, yet so many are drug addled and sleeping rough. It's like people with skinny jeans and painted nails drinking coffee in cutsie small cafes or play sword fighting and crap with the back drop of poverty and despair.

The waterfront is amazing, some of the suburbs are nice but the city downtown itself is a complete sh1thole. I would not want to move to Vancouver.

I think the first part of this post is quite sensationalist to be honest.

There is an issue with homeless here, but it is not as wide spread as you make it out to be. East Hastings at Chinatown is where it is by far the worst, but walking through it is not like walking through Baghdad, they keep to themselves and don't disturb people, it would bring too much attention to themselves and they don't want anymore than they need. It also has more to do with the mental institutes being closed here, what you see on hastings isn't just down and out drug addicts, its mentally sick people who need help.

And again the generalisation of "skinny people with painted nails", its a multi cultured city, you will see many different types here, punks, hippies, hipsters, skaters, goths, business men going to work on skateboards. Its part of the city to have diversity here, and its a big plus for Vancouver.

ciaran67

usersame wrote: »

Yeah it's not menacing, I walked down it at about 2am and the locals were just telling me to leave and pretty much escorted me off E Hastings

We're all different. I personally don't find it menacing but then again I don't take a stroll through there at 2am.

Wander down the Old Kent Rd at 2am... now that's menacing.

ciaran67

usersame wrote: »

Vancouver is hugely overrated IMO

"Beautiful boring British Columbia" is literally a saying over there

It's very very expensive, loads of homeless, nightlife is cat.

You should of been here in the late 90's. :eek:

NewsMeQuick

Climate: I got down to the numbers myself yesterday.

BBC: Vancouver http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/6173331

BBC: Dublin http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/2964574

Play with the chart, add and remove layers of details, it's very useful.

Basically, they have more rain days in Autumn, Winter and Spring than Dublin, between a few more days to almost double in the Winter. In the Winter months, precipitation peaks at roughly four times that of Dublin e.g. mid 80s mm vs mid 220s mm. Dublin has wetter Summers while Vancouver has far drier Summers and in July this year it didn't rain even one day, setting a new record. Toronto had I think one of the wettest Summers on record. Vanouver gets more hours of clear sunshine, brightness (no guarantee of heat) than Dublin, especially from Spring to Summer.

That said, one of the many considerations for me is climate - I choose the rain over excessive snow. I read yesterday January 2012 Calgary reached -49C. No thanks! It really does depend on which you prefer though, each to their own.

usersame

ciaran67 wrote: »

We're all different. I personally don't find it menacing but then again I don't take a stroll through there at 2am.

Wander down the Old Kent Rd at 2am... now that's menacing.

Sorry I wasn't being sarcastic! Canadian people of all circumstances seem to be nonviolent

Jamsiek

usersame wrote: »

Sorry I wasn't being sarcastic! Canadian people of all circumstances seem to be nonviolent

Except hockey players of course :-)

ciaran67

usersame wrote: »

Sorry I wasn't being sarcastic! Canadian people of all circumstances seem to be nonviolent

Ha didnt think you were mate.

Passive aggressive... they are the masters.

Wompa1

Gintonious wrote: »

I think the first part of this post is quite sensationalist to be honest.

There is an issue with homeless here, but it is not as wide spread as you make it out to be. East Hastings at Chinatown is where it is by far the worst, but walking through it is not like walking through Baghdad, they keep to themselves and don't disturb people, it would bring too much attention to themselves and they don't want anymore than they need. It also has more to do with the mental institutes being closed here, what you see on hastings isn't just down and out drug addicts, its mentally sick people who need help.

And again the generalisation of "skinny people with painted nails", its a multi cultured city, you will see many different types here, punks, hippies, hipsters, skaters, goths, business men going to work on skateboards. Its part of the city to have diversity here, and its a big plus for Vancouver.

Come on now. I wasn't just down Hastings, Though I did go through there! The only place I didn't see people hobbled over themselves, sleeping rough or shouting obscenities was down by the on the water terminal. But then around that area down by the CFL stadium and the big Public Library also had a lot of cops driving around. If you walk a few miles in any direction from it, you see the extremes that I saw.

What may be different to the US cities that somebody was comparing them too, is the fact the downtown areas tend to be kept clear of it. I live in Phoenix. South Phoenix has a realy crime problem. Downtown is a ghost town, it's a big sprawl and the downtown area isn't really inhabited but at the same time there's nothing like I saw in Vancouver. I went to Seattle, I couldn't tell you where the bad spots of that city are, I would guess they are somewhere on the fringe of the city...though Seattle was very unique, it seemed like a very wealthy area. Also very expensive.

In New York. Manhattan is very safe, most of Brooklyn is now pretty safe too, it has been taken over by Hipsters but other parts of Brooklyn are very dangerous, ditto parts of Queens etc. LA is a complete dump.

Also, I'm not attempting to be sensationalist, this is honestly my opinion. Also, not sure why but what's up with the poorly designed parking garages in Vancouver and the mysterious ATM with the railing in front of it!?

If I had any city to compare Vancouver to in terms of the US it would be somewhere like Providence, Rhode Island.

Frank Bullitt

Wompa1 wrote: »

Come on now. I wasn't just down Hastings, Though I did go through there! The only place I didn't see people hobbled over themselves, sleeping rough or shouting obscenities was down by the on the water terminal. But then around that area down by the CFL stadium and the big Public Library also had a lot of cops driving around. If you walk a few miles in any direction from it, you see the extremes that I saw.

What may be different to the US cities that somebody was comparing them too, is the fact the downtown areas tend to be kept clear of it. I live in Phoenix. South Phoenix has a realy crime problem. Downtown is a ghost town, it's a big sprawl and the downtown area isn't really inhabited but at the same time there's nothing like I saw in Vancouver. I went to Seattle, I couldn't tell you where the bad spots of that city are, I would guess they are somewhere on the fringe of the city...though Seattle was very unique, it seemed like a very wealthy area. Also very expensive.

In New York. Manhattan is very safe, most of Brooklyn is now pretty safe too, it has been taken over by Hipsters but other parts of Brooklyn are very dangerous, ditto parts of Queens etc. LA is a complete dump.

Also, I'm not attempting to be sensationalist, this is honestly my opinion. Also, not sure why but what's up with the poorly designed parking garages in Vancouver and the mysterious ATM with the railing in front of it!?

If I had any city to compare Vancouver to in terms of the US it would be somewhere like Providence, Rhode Island.

I'm really not sure where you are seeing these "people hobbled over themselves" etc, as with any city there are homeless, but it is nowhere near as bad or widespread as your post make it out to be.

Vancouver is No.4 in the most livable cities in the world this year, and has been top 10 for a few years now as well. There are none of the cities that you mentioned in this post in the top 10 at all.

Vancouver is also one of the worlds cleanest cities as well, but as it has a growing population crime can be higher, but its more related to the suburbs than the city.

And I wouldn't compare Vancouver to any city in America, thats an insult to Vancouver.

Ardillaun

Canada ANYWHERE is not a world leader in the climate stakes. Vancouver's climate is more like Ireland's, with drier summers. Calgary can be really cold, sometimes until April. Calgary has a dry climate - the static electricity on clothes is noticeable and droughts are not unknown.

I lived in both and found the people in Calgary more friendly, although neither is a patch on the East Coast in that regard. Calgarians are a bit too jolly for my liking, lots of loud laughter. In the pubs, they become a bit overbearing. Calgary has become a more multicultural city in recent decades whereas Vancouver is almost 'majority minority' now. Vancouver is much prettier. I could happily spend six months taking all the coastal ferries out to the Gulf Islands and up the Sunshine Coast. The trees are bigger in Vancouver and spring comes at least a month earlier.

Calgary is quite a bit cheaper to rent or buy real estate in. Vancouver is crazy in that regard. There are lots of homeless and drug addicts in both cities but more in Vancouver, partly because of the milder weather.

These high world rankings for Canadian cities are a bit of a mystery to me. Our rail systems, for example, are primitive by European standards.

Wompa1

Gintonious wrote: »

I'm really not sure where you are seeing these "people hobbled over themselves" etc, as with any city there are homeless, but it is nowhere near as bad or widespread as your post make it out to be.

Vancouver is No.4 in the most livable cities in the world this year, and has been top 10 for a few years now as well. There are none of the cities that you mentioned in this post in the top 10 at all.

Vancouver is also one of the worlds cleanest cities as well, but as it has a growing population crime can be higher, but its more related to the suburbs than the city.

And I wouldn't compare Vancouver to any city in America, thats an insult to Vancouver.

A little bit on the defensive side, eh? Didn't look particularly clean in the downtown areas! The suburbs and outlying areas were very clean. The Canadian side of the border was pristine also. Do you buy into the most livable cities thing? What's the criteria for the list? I believe it's crime rate, city expenditure, health statistics and sanitation standards? According to the web, that's for Forbes list.

Health care is universal, crime rate is not high for a city. City expenditure, I have no idea. Sanitation looked fine in the majority of the city.

Nowhere does it state anything about drug addiction, mental illness and vagrancy. I talked to a friend of somebody who lives there and they had told her that mental illness is a big problem there and that most people with mental illness in Canada flock to Vancouver because the weather isn't as harsh. I'm not sure I could stick it out there.

Also for an idea. I walked all along from Broughton St down just past Main Street. I walked up and down some of the streets. Seymour, Howe, Hastings, Georgia, Burrard and they are the one's I remember. Also went down by the sea planes place, the Hockey arena and all of that stuff. Passed a bunch of detox clinics, what looked like soup kitchens with people lined up and loads of people asleep in sleeping backs on stairwells, under stairs, on the side of the street etc. Not just on one street, on most of the one's I walked on. There was another street with people trying to sell stuff on the pavement. Some lad came up to me and shouted Pot at me three times...no idea was he selling, wanting to buy or what. The smell of weed in some parts of the city would knock your socks off. I even saw a boy racer! I wonder if he was Irish, I haven't seen one in 2 years. We don't have them around here and they are all but gone in my home town back in Galway. I wonder if he was Irish. He was driving a VW Golf and driving like an asshole!

I was walking around on a Saturday morning from 7am-1pm. I drove out of the city then and went around some of the spots on the outlying areas, they were very nice. Vancouver is a nice metropolitan if you include the places I visited outside of it..I think they were Richmond and some place else. They looked like nice quite places

Frank Bullitt

Wompa1 wrote: »

A little bit on the defensive side, eh? Didn't look particularly clean in the downtown areas! The suburbs and outlying areas were very clean. The Canadian side of the border was pristine also. Do you buy into the most livable cities thing? What's the criteria for the list? I believe it's crime rate, city expenditure, health statistics and sanitation standards? According to the web, that's for Forbes list.

Health care is universal, crime rate is not high for a city. City expenditure, I have no idea. Sanitation looked fine in the majority of the city.

Nowhere does it state anything about drug addiction, mental illness and vagrancy. I talked to a friend of somebody who lives there and they had told her that mental illness is a big problem there and that most people with mental illness in Canada flock to Vancouver because the weather isn't as harsh. I'm not sure I could stick it out there.

Also for an idea. I walked all along from Broughton St down just past Main Street. I walked up and down some of the streets. Seymour, Howe, Hastings, Georgia, Burrard and they are the one's I remember. Also went down by the sea planes place, the Hockey arena and all of that stuff. Passed a bunch of detox clinics, what looked like soup kitchens with people lined up and loads of people asleep in sleeping backs on stairwells, under stairs, on the side of the street etc. Not just on one street, on most of the one's I walked on. There was another street with people trying to sell stuff on the pavement. Some lad came up to me and shouted Pot at me three times...no idea was he selling, wanting to buy or what. The smell of weed in some parts of the city would knock your socks off. I even saw a boy racer! I wonder if he was Irish, I haven't seen one in 2 years. We don't have them around here and they are all but gone in my home town back in Galway. I wonder if he was Irish. He was driving a VW Golf and driving like an asshole!

I was walking around on a Saturday morning from 7am-1pm. I drove out of the city then and went around some of the spots on the outlying areas, they were very nice. Vancouver is a nice metropolitan if you include the places I visited outside of it..I think they were Richmond and some place else. They looked like nice quite places

Well I am defending the place as you seemed to only want to point out the bad things of the place, thats where my defence came from.

I think the main criteria for those lists are how people find it living there, and I can see why Vancouver is always on the list, the view, cleanliness, transport, things to do, places to go etc.

Homeless do come here as it is easier to survive a Vancouver winter where at the very extreme you could get -10 in the city, over a place like Edmonton where is gets to -30. I already mentioned that mental illness is an issue here as the mental institutes were shut down some years ago, so the homeless you see are sick people as I mentioned. You mentioned places like Manhattan in previous posts and how that it is safe etc, I'm not sure if you were drawing a direct comparison to Vancouver, but Van is a million times safer than anywhere in NY.

And on your walk that you mentioned, do something like that in any city and you would pass the same stuff.

And pot is very widely accepted here, its frowned upon more if you drink regularly rather than smoke pot, and...its most definitely a plus in my book!!!!

And this is more of a boy racer place than Dublin, but again its more in the suburbs, in the city is where you see more Ferraris, Lambo, Maseratis, Porches etc.

I'm also not trying to pick a fight here, I am more just point out that the positives for Van ( I can't speak if it is better or worse that Calgary) far outweigh the negatives. It has the same shortcomings as any city, but they are not as severe as the homeless in San Fran say, or other large North American cities.

Ardillaun

Gintonious wrote: »

It has the same shortcomings as any city, but they are not as severe as the homeless in San Fran say, or other large North American cities.

I visited San Fran several decades ago. My abiding memory is of armies of homeless people, damn near the population of Canada on the streets. There was a line-up right round our hotel for some nearby soup kitchen.

We have a homeless problem in large Canadian cities - but NOTHING like San Fran.

Ardillaun

This spring, I got stuck in Vancouver (because of a snowstorm in Toronto) and had a wonderful week there. Actually, I had forgotten just how beautiful it is. I rented a bike and did the perimeter of Stanley Park, supped coffee in Coal Harbour and drank fine beers in Gastown. Very civilized.

Frank Bullitt

I should also say as well, that I have friends in Calgary and they love it.

I don't think you can make a bad decision really.

Ardillaun

There are tremendous opportunities in every corner of this great country. All my friends who stayed did well.

ciaran67

Wompa1 wrote: »

Come on now. I wasn't just down Hastings, Though I did go through there! The only place I didn't see people hobbled over themselves, sleeping rough or shouting obscenities was down by the on the water terminal. But then around that area down by the CFL stadium and the big Public Library also had a lot of cops driving around. If you walk a few miles in any direction from it, you see the extremes that I saw.

What may be different to the US cities that somebody was comparing them too, is the fact the downtown areas tend to be kept clear of it. I live in Phoenix. South Phoenix has a realy crime problem. Downtown is a ghost town, it's a big sprawl and the downtown area isn't really inhabited but at the same time there's nothing like I saw in Vancouver. I went to Seattle, I couldn't tell you where the bad spots of that city are, I would guess they are somewhere on the fringe of the city...though Seattle was very unique, it seemed like a very wealthy area. Also very expensive.

In New York. Manhattan is very safe, most of Brooklyn is now pretty safe too, it has been taken over by Hipsters but other parts of Brooklyn are very dangerous, ditto parts of Queens etc. LA is a complete dump.

Also, I'm not attempting to be sensationalist, this is honestly my opinion. Also, not sure why but what's up with the poorly designed parking garages in Vancouver and the mysterious ATM with the railing in front of it!?

If I had any city to compare Vancouver to in terms of the US it would be somewhere like Providence, Rhode Island.

Seattle's bad spots are downtown near the stadium by Pioneer Sq. Its far more dangerous than Vancouver. The cities around like Tacoma can be pretty bad.

Thing about E Hastings is there literally no murders there at all. Most of the murders and serious crime are out in Surrey with the Indian gangs killing each other. I have never felt scared here and like I said i work down in E Hastings quite a lot.

Had a fine weekend in Providence 15 odd years back. Nice place.

Ardillaun

Canadian downtowns are still safe by North American standards (it's not hard to look good against the US and, well, Mexico). Despite some highly publicized shoot outs in the malls and streets, Toronto's overall homicide rate is lower than most cities in the country. Generally, Ontario cities tend to be safer. Gang violence is beginning to tick up in Western cities and one long-term concern would be with First Nation (Native Indian) gangs in cities like Winnipeg.